Why I'm not buying a P-7811

Sorry, but I feel like this deserves it's own thread. I've been pretty dead set on buying a P-7811 for the last couple of weeks, but when I discovered that my Best Buy was out of stock and wasn't expecting any more shipments I started looking at other options.

Eventually I came across a deal that makes the alternative of buying a P-7811 seem completely insane. The Sager NP5793 is currently selling on xoticpc.com with a $600 discount.

You can get the following configuration for only $1674.00

17" WSXGA+ Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050)
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
T9300 2.5GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 800MHz FSB
512MB PCI-Express nVidia GeForce 9800M GTS DDR3 DX10
4GB of DDR2 ram
2X Blue-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive
320GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache)
Bluetooth
Fingerprint Reader
Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5300 802.11 a/g/n Wi-Fi Link
Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit Installed
Basic Black Business Case
3 Year Labor 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime 24/7 DOMESTIC tech-support

The P-7811 is currently selling for $1,449.99...add the Geek Squad Black Tie 2 Year Warranty on to that and you have a grand total of $1799.98. So if I chose the Gateway over the Sager I would be paying about $100 more for a slower processor, ddr3 memory, no blue-ray, no fingerprint reader, no bluetooth, a smaller hard drive, no case, and the likely chance of having horrible stability issues.

Just felt like you guys needed to know about this sale. It just seems wrong to spend more money on the P-7811 when you can get a much more powerful and extremely reliable NP5793 for cheaper. Not sure how long the deals gonna last though.

 

I have nothing bad to say about sagers.. I think that is a good deal. However, it's the older Santa Rosa platform..not montevina. So, you will be limited with options for upgrading.. I.E.- You wanna go quad core in the next year, when prices drop. It's on sale, because it's already outdated. Don't get me wrong..as I said, it IS a good deal for what you receive. But, the x9000 is where you will end, for CPU performance. And the screen will probably be on your list of future upgrades. They don't offer 2 HD bays, do they? Anyhow.. not knocking your quest to find a good deal, just trying to make sure you're aware of where your money is going.

 

Not a bad deal, but a lot of us picked up a 7811 for $1250 w/ free game which was at the time a fantastic deal.

I think the reason that your ordered Sager is $600 off for they are trying to get rid of the older units for the updated Montevina Chipsets.

 

True that it is the Santa Rosa platform, and that the CPU Upgradeability stops at X9000, but, it is still a really good deal, it really depends on whether you want upgradeability or peace of mind (many P-7811's have been having problems, not all of them, but not an isolated issue either) and more GPU Horsepower, Sager has good quality control and experienced tech support staff too from my experience with them,

But the same can be said about Gateway, even Gateway Mexico's Tech Support Staff were really helpful and even sent a technician to swap my old laptop's keyboard when it broke.

Although, you won't be able to go Quad Core unless there is a motherboard-refresh option for the Sager NP5793 (you'd have to check this with Sager and your Reseller).

Edit: Updated some stuff.

 

That sager is assembled by xoticpc, so the quality control depends on XoticPC. Although the QC on the parts are done by Sager.


For that sager, you get a lower res screen that the 7811 and you get a out dated chipset that will not support quads. One plus you get an MXM slot for that 9800gts, but MXM cards are so bloody rare and expensive. A 8600m GT cost $200! The blu-ray is a plus. Cost about 300 bucks alone. Hard drives are cheap quick upgrades. Blue-tooth can be solved with a mini usb BT for about $10.

 

well, sager got a workstation quality chassis , and runing at 200w, gpu is probably upgradable.

on the other hand, for us gateay p7811fx users, we have to settle for what it is.

 

I don't feel I settled! If this laptop were not at it's sale price point, I wouldn't have bought a laptop. It was tooooo great a deal to passup! Total impulse decision and I'm glad I got it! Many have reported problems, but many are also real happy with theie purchase. Remember, most everyone who posts here are at least performance driven or have a problem, so you might say this sample audience is skewed. We either want more from a great product or somethings wrong.

 

Or.. there are a bunch of people who blow things out of perspective.. Example: Ghosting; many people installed the black "Gateway" default background..and then complained about ghosting cause from angles they saw white blotches. Well, that's the background. I found this out while I was one of those people attempting an exchange at BB. Then there are people who complain about temps.. well, that's cause they dont know to elevate the back of the machine. My DV9700 had the same issue. Oh, and the BSOD.. that *is* a bios/driver issue. I assure you, NO ONE with the newest drivers and BIOS have that issue. So..yes, Gateway was in a hurry to release the BAD@SS gaming rig..and maybe it has caused some problems for end-users..but, that's where half the love comes from. If you turned on the computer, and it broke every 3dmark score.. it never got "warm".. and it massaged your back while going to sleep.. would u complain? The intracacies(sp?) of new models make us love them or loathe them.. and as of right now, I assure you.. Most, if not all, love the 7811FX. The bugs are gone. The cricks are gone. That's why this forum died recently.. No more major issues. Only questions, by those who are not experienced with the machine.. But that's cool too. However, this is the BADDEST gaming rig for the $$$. And, it will not be outdated next month.

 

Amen, pastor E!

 

Word. <G>

......

 

I'm wondering if I shouldn't try to force an exchange before they run out of stock. I've got a dead pixel dead-center on my LCD that's just cropped up recently. Anyone recall what the dead pixel policy is?

 

btw there is a 1920x1200 option for $95 extra

 

Pros:

blu-ray (I have a ps3 anyway)
fingerprint reader (I would actually like one, I think it's pretty cool)
better quality/service
SLIGHTLY faster cpu (.3 ghz faster?)
comes with a case
slightly better wireless (but 5350 will be out soon)
bigger hard drive

Cons:

$300 more expensive
older, soon to be outdated platform - santa rosa (this alone would make me not want the 5793)
ddr2 memory instead of ddr3
quicker power consuming / higher temp generating cpu (T-series 35watt vs P-series 25watt consumption)
louder fans
much worse screen (lower resolution and WSXGA vs WUXGA)
weighs more
less future proof (mostly because of chipset)

as far as the warranty goes, you can get a squaretrade warranty on the 7811 for about $80 for 2 years if you know the right methods, and squaretrade warranties are better quality than geek squad by far

so I wouldn't call the 7811 an "insane" buy compared to this, I would actually say its close but the 7811 would have to be the winner due to it being more futureproof imo

 

Would the keyboard from that machine work on a 7811? It doesn't have the FN key stupidity that the 7811 ships with.

 

Keyboards are rarely if ever interchangeable between manufacturers.

 

fyi: recent machines have the control key and fn key switched over.

 

Say whu?

Are you saying the newest 7811fx machines have the control key on the left?

 

1066mhz > 800mhz sorry

 

I'm very happy with my 6860 (bought for $1099 over July 4th), but I heard all kinds of great things about Sager laptops when I was considering what to purchase. Seems like you can't go wrong with either one.

 

More like...

Montevina > Santa Rosa

 

what what WHAT???

 

Pretty sure he means that many recent laptops (not just gateways) are shipping with the FN key to the left of the CTRL key like on the 7811. I have an extremely recent 7811 and my FN key is in the same spot as the earlier ones.

 

By the way Jak..how is that new one treating you? Temps good, screen clear, all gravy?

Im considering whether or not to exchange this one..for one last time. I'm not sure what the deal is, but my TZS0 freaks out a lot easier than my previous models.. Im not gonna whine bout the problem, it just happens too easy. So, I was wondering..being that I'm about a week outside the 14day period, you think they'll still exchange?

 

depends on two things:
1 - what you hit it with
2 - how hard you hit it

lol (jk) I think they will exchange it if you use the bios excuse. Say it advertised RAID capability, and that you use it professionally for video editing so you REALLY need raid, and you've learned now that the newer ones offer the updated bios with raid, etc. You won't be able to argue it in store, but if you call 1800bestbuy and explain your situation to them, say you're losing out on business because video editing without raid takes forever. Yes, I realize that you do have the updated bios though haha. But if you have no problems with that make sure you're careful in exchanging obviously cuz you don't want to get one that does have problems

As to mine, had it for over a week now, 0 lockups, 0 temp problems/abnormalities, 0 dead pixels, lowest amount of ghosting i've ever seen, no HDD access or DVD access noise, no problems. Thanks for the OC help btw worked like a charm.

EDIT: They're sold out in a lot of places, better hurry if you want to try

 

Thanks for the heads up.. I went ahead and bought a new one. I will be returning the old one. turns out, I have exceeded my exchange period/amount of units. The lady counted out 6 receipts, eveidentally they can trace back to where your exchanges were made. Long story short, I bought one and will return the old one. *deceit* Anyhow, Glad u are lovin the new one

 

you read my mind!!! I must build him an altar :O!!!!

 

uhm... so the units that are 2887 and below are not too good these days eh? or it really depends... some are lemons and some are not... im about to get mine on the 26th... hehe... see my sig where it's being shipped.

 

Mine has been Perfect Awsome temps , Awsome screen 0 ghosting and a spec of bleed at the bottom which actually seems to almost be gone now ,Great Overclocker and never a lockup and mines an original ie the old one with the old bios or atleast it was till i updated it thanks to E-.

 

SplinteredVision.... what happened to your guitar? You said you were skipping on the laptop

BTW, I'm not sure why you didn't... unless you have a bigscreen TV at home without any blu-ray, but if you're going to be watching high-def bluray movies on your laptop.... why no 1080p??

 

thanks quad. when my lappy arrives i think im also going to go with erik's settings.

 

I have the old P7811 and I get awesome temps even without a cooler (the laptop sits on a wooden table, flat) while playing WC for hours. I got really high marks while OCing the GPU, and only a minor light bleed at the bottom of the screen. This doesn't matter to me though cause my anime is always in full screen and my wallpapers aren't completely black. I had two "display crash" but it never closed my games and it didn't revert the OC on the gpu so I guess it's fine lol.

 

the guitar has been giving me some wrist problems so I'm kind of taking a break with that

As for the blu-ray, it's not like I added that in there myself....it's the only option available for the 5793. I went with 1680x1050 because I'm more interested in gaming than I am in watching movies on this laptop.

 

I too was looking at the Sager (Clevo) models and was about to order the 5796 from powernotebooks but right before I did that was when the 1249 deal with free game was advertised at BB. Now the configuration I wanted with the 5796 would have set me back about 1900, the gateway was too good of a deal to pass up. From what I gather from reading the Sager forums, there aren't that many complaints about those machines, except maybe loud fans and bad headphone jacks... Another plus is that they have good warranty service. Also there's paid shipping both ways I believe. Can't say the same about Gateway.

I've also heard good things about XoticPC. If you do wind up getting the 5793 I believe you won't be disappointed; assuming you're alright with paying 400-500 more for an older gen machine (but with blu-ray, bigger HD and better warranty). Have you tried comparing the 5796 model with the 7811? Btw: they also have a 8660 15.4" model which would save some $$$...

 

hahahahahhahaha

XoticPC.... starting at $1,682.......

 

E-Wreked pretty much summed it up: no quad-core upgrade, no 2nd HDD bay, 1680x1050 screen....it's a No Buy for many. I passed up on it to go with the Gateway, and I ordered a Blu-Ray drive from newegg.

Not trying to say it's a bad choice to go with the Sager, it's just that list of Cons is going to heavily sway many people to go with the P-7811FX....and also shows that Gateway really out-did themselves with the impressive specs and features @ only $1,250-1,450 (on sale or not).

 

You guys talk about being able to upgrade to the new quad core processors when they come out, but have u guys thought about the ability to actually cool those processors? because if the current P7811FX is having so many issues with overheating when running only a P8400 whats gonna happen when the user decides to upgrade? and not too mention the fact that i believe the GPU isn't upgradeable.....
pls feel free to correct me if i'm wrong just trying to get the facts before i make my purchase.

 

sager np5793 is better than gateway p7811fx , but both systems are just transitional products. as we are now approaching 2009, next year intel will push out new processors base on nehalem and larrabee, and move to 32nm, nvidia will move to 40nm. laptops of y2009 will be as powerful as current y2008 desktop, and thats twice as powerful as either sager or gateway.

 

the 7811 has no issues in cooling the cpu...it mostly idles around (and below 30c...which is nothing). It is the gpu that the 7811is having problems cooling.

Plenty people of this forum runs the 7811 with the x9100...which has a tdp of 45w...and guess what...the qx9300 also has a tdp of 45w. So the upgrade will not cause any issue.

 

thanks captain obvious

while I game on mine I will laugh at people like you who are constantly waiting on the next thing and NEVER snap and buy something....

 

I thought the qx9300 was 35w..no?
EDIT: No..I be wrong.

 

Yep idle on my cpu is usally 30 and max temp ive seen is 54 id hardly call that hot . My gpu idles at 39 and max temps ive seen is 79 and thats with a massive over clock and a couple hours of gaming and thats still not hot either . People with heat issues may be laying there machines flat on a table and thats about the only downfall of these machines is they should be propped for propper ventilation.

 

Quad..you are confusing me. The temps are in the other forum I was spun for a second there. My TZS0 now downthrottled at 86c with new BIOS. Gonna try 9c.09 and see.

EDIT: Me dumb tonight. Ignore this post..except the temp and bios info

 

Its ok man, but you may need to lay off the Crown and Coke . Oh and i have had no down throttling to speak of for sometime now . i guess it really hates your CPU or somehow Gateway put a hex on you for all the exchanges /cough .

 

LOL! Yea, I think you may be onto something. And tonight it's bud light.. Well, with any unit..as you use it temps tend to drop. All the sinks/thermal crud begins to work more effectively. Im just tryin to get back to that place, where my CPU didnt downthrottle if Im not OC'ing. I think I may have it fixed.. but just gotta try diff BIOS to make sure. Anyhow, Im gonna figure it out.. HP is sending me replacement thermal pads anyhow.

 

Care to explain how it is better? Even with a SLIGHT OC the gateway is faster then the 5793 (my friend at work had one with a T9300/880GTX in it) and we benched the crap out of both.

 

So does this mean you no longer see TZS0 jump up to 98C with the new BIOS (9c.10 beta)? I didn't have time to try it yet on mine last night. My kid is enamoured with Purble Place (please don't laugh).

One other thing to note on the new 7811 (2888 serial number) is that the hard drive doesn't get nearly as hot as it did before, temps occasionally get to 51C but usually around 47C. My two new Seagate 7200.3 320GB drives are on the truck for delivery as I wrte this. We'll see what that does to temperature.

 

Oh! New Hard drives! Woot woot!

And the issue with TZS0 in the 9c.10 BIOS, is that the acpi thermal zone trip temperature has been changed to 86c. That's why the reading won't go any higher and the CPU downthrottles. 9c.08.00 downthrottles at 98c, based on the BIOS settings. I'm considering a mod posted by antoher member using a copper shim. Seems like a good idea. The northbridge chipset is one of the hottest components of your computer system. It needs proper cooling, that's all.

 

Yeah, I'm considering that one myself. I like the fact that the memory/MiniPCI door also gives complete access to the processor and firmware chips. I just wish it was that easy to get at the GPU. Do the firmware chips on the 7811 use thermal pads or grease? Also are the pads beneath the hard drives thermal pads or are they just there to provide a snug fit?

You think the TZS0 sensor is for the bridge? I'm concerned that the sensor says 49C one millisecond and 98C a millisecond later. I've done no OC'ing whatsoever. Someone, I thought it was you, posted a very nice description of what may be causing the sudden spike in another thread on TZS0 about a month ago.

 

I don't know how adventurous you are..but the GPU took me about 45 minutes to find.. I had to remove the MOBO. Maybe there's a shortcut, but I didn't find it. I don't recommend tryin, but hey.. like I said, adventurous. fiz, I think TZS0 is a faulty reading to an extent.. and I believe it is the northbridge, there's an easy way to tell. Remove the thermal pad from chipset and see how it reacts. But, considering how many have had issues with tzs0 when they lose the thermal pad.. it only makes sense. I still stick to the idea that it's the FSB/RAM issue, ACPI problems, and the pad. Or, at the least..one of the 3 I'm workin to just slow down the temps, and go from there. Trial and error my friend.

EDIT: Removed the thermal pad.. Comp runs normal.. as soon as 3dmark06 begins, within 2 seconds the tzs0 sensor hits 98c and downthrottles. *shrugs* Normally takes a bit longer than that