17 Assorted Technical Questions

Just wanted to start off saying this forum is great to me, even if I don't get any of these questions answered (which, I bet most will anyhow). I've been using the forum on/off for a year now, but only from an observers standpoint. Thinking of becoming active around here a little.

Alright now down to the nitty gritty questions. I have been looking at a TON of laptops lately over the course of this last half week (I've put in a good 50+ hours now), and I've narrowed it down to 10. I'm not going to ask which ones are better for me, as there is a different more appropriate forum sub-section for that question. These questions will help me determine for myself.

As you may have noticed....I went a little overboard in my questions (just imagine the time put in to writing them all out)! When you respond, please put a # representing the question you are responding to. It will not only help me, but anyone else who is interested in finding out that information, too! Thank you!

And so, with no further ado, the questions!

1. I have heard/read many times that video cards are very often unchangeable, that you are stuck with what you get. I am presuming this has to do with the motherboard. I was wondering if anyone would have a list of motherboards or know how to determine if a motherboard could house future video cards?

2. I have been looking hard to find a good desktop replacement gaming laptop video card. The best around, from what I can tell, is the NVIDIA GeForce 8800m GTX. My question is, by getting two of them, is that what determines it is SLI? Because, I see that getting thrown around a bit randomly. Some say "two" 8800's, while I've seen some site's say "8800 sli's". I had been using this link, to try and figure it out, but I don't see it listed. Is there something I am missing? Or perhaps better video cards?

3. Video cards and excess allotted memory. I have read a lot about how some video cards have more memory available to them than they ever use. Like having 512mb, when it only utilizes between 128 to 256mb of it. So, should I be saving my money on the extra money or am I missing out on something? Also, are there even options for less than 512mb 8800 GTX's, if that is the case?

4. Comparing Video Card Technologies for Gaming. Could anyone tell me how exactly the NVIDIA GeForce 8700m GT (and SLI) is worse than the 8800m GTX? Or if there are reasons to support getting a card other than the 8800m GTX instead of a Quadro, when I intend to play games like Crysis with these kind of system requirements?

5. Operating systems - The Windows XP or Windows Vista debate. Personally, I don't care at all for the new Vista in terms of it's new features, I have no use for them, and the "nicer" looks don't much matter to me. I would consider it for the added security, however, I personally feel the security is worse than XP, as it is newer on the market and that we are sort-of like "testers" for them still. Beyond that, I have heard A LOT about how Vista is NOT nearly as good for playing video games as XP is. Is the difference truly so bad? Are there ways to get around the problem? The Crysis system requirements has a SEPARATE list of system requirements for Vista users, which is a lot more demanding than the XP, which concerns me. But, maybe that is only due to the fact that the Vista OS is simply more demanding than the XP OS is? Help, lol.

6. Multiple operating systems practicality. Would anyone know if it's possible to multi-OS using laptops OTHER THAN the MacBook Pro (or any other Mac/Linux machine for that matter). I have seen other machine makers (like voodoo and alienware) offer multi-OS, however, they only offer different versions of Windows. Personally, I don't see the point in having two different versions of Windows (except for maybe the part in my question #5). I would want 1 to be Windows XP Pro (I have a CD installation already). With the other being MAC OS X Leopard (also have an installation cd already). Are there any limitations on what computers (or their parts) that determine my ability to do this? Also, if I can do this with most laptops, what is the best way by which to do it do you think (program or partition, I believe partitioning requires a reboot, however).

7. 2GB/4GB RAM - With XP or Vista (32 or 64bit)? This may be a foolish question, but can Windows XP handle 4GB. Or is anything beyond 2GB wasted? If it's wasted, what should I do? Should I be considering getting a Vista? If so, what value is there to the 32 and 64bit question (as well as Ultimate and such), as I don't understand the differences well enough to determine the implications of which I choose. Lastly, if Vista is needed to properly utilize 4GB RAM, is it worth it? The only reason I'd get 4GB RAM in the first place is to ensure my stake in gaming for the next five (hopefully) years. But, if Vista is so "bad" at playing games, would it be best to stick at less RAM (presuming it can't utilize more than 2GB) and use XP?

8. Ram - How much is enough? For a really good Desktop Replacement Gaming Laptop, I figure it has to have at LEAST 2GB RAM, what do you guys think? My options are 2GB, 3GB, and 4GB. I rarely see 3GB offered, but the other two usually are. Do you think 2GB is enough, or is it more of a "minimum" for a really good laptop like I am talking about? If it's the minimum, would you think 4GB is enough, or is that overkill? In which case go with 3GB? Lastly, if 3GB, that would mean I would be using a 1GB and a 2GB memory chip, is that okay? Or does having different capability RAM cause issues of any sort (though, I can't see of any reason for that to be the case)?

9. Typical/Notorious Company/Manufacturer Warranties. I believe that most warranties WILL allow for the changing of memory on your own (fact-check?) without voiding the warranty. What about other parts, such as the harddrive? Also, have any of you encountered any companies/manufacturers who are really bad (or good) when it comes to their warranties and their being voided from replacing hardware? Or overclocking even?

10. Overheating - A real concern? I've been reading on these forums a bit about changing to Arctic Silver 5 on the gpu's and cpu's to help prevent overheating and not cause conductivity issues (as it is made of silver), to help reach the heat sink better. Should I be concerned about companies like Dell, Voodoo, Alienware, M-Tech, VisionMan, WidowPC, Sager, Falcon North West, Hypersonic, and others in giving me a cheaper alternative that can't get the job done properly? I only ask, because I see the Arctic Silver 5 talked about on these forums a fair amount and it has gotten me to wondering, as I always find my laptops are super-hot to the touch (I can barely keep my hands on the bottom of my laptop without pulling away because it feels like it's burning). Before anyone say's anything, no I haven't checked my laptop's temperature, it doesn't concern me, as I don't intend to be hanging onto this one much longer if I can help it.

11. Network hardware selection. Networking is perhaps the most confusing aspect for me. I see a lot about the 802.11 a/b/g/n, so I am guessing that is the current standard? But, I also don't know anything about the internal network adapters, modems, routers, or anything else network related that I may have forgotten (like controllers? But, I think that word might be synonymous with adapters in this case)? Can anyone assist me (or perhaps provide a good link) to information on how to determine these things from one another? Also, since I don't plan to be getting a new laptop until I can get the 8800GTX (which, I believe comes out in February for those who intend to use two), will there be any NEW network cards to replace the 802.11 a/b/g/n around that time period, that are a significant enough improvement to give me a good consideration to wait?

12. Processor selection. Intel Duo, Tri, Quad, and Extreme. These are the names I keep reading about (though, I have yet to see a laptop offer Tri). What is the significance behind all this and what to choose for a desktop replacement gaming laptop? Obviously, Quad > Tri > Duo. But, by how much for gaming? I have read a fair number of tests (and looked at fact sheets), showing how Tri and Quad technology don't appear to make much difference, except at really high resolutions (I will state now, I probably won't go much past 1024 x 768 resolutions, on my 17" monitor). So, is there any real value in choosing a Quad or Tri over Duo, or am I setting myself up for overkill? From what I've read, it's because the gaming market hasn't taken good advantage of this newer technology yet. So, from your opinions, do you think over the next 5 years (which, is how long I hope to make my laptop last for, will the newer DirectX 10 (and maybe in the next 5 years 11 or later) will start taking advantage of Tri and Quad more, making it a wise move to do it now? And, if there may be opportunities for it improving, would I be best to get the Quad (or Tri) now, or wait some years and upgrade my machine with one of them from a Duo (or, would I likely have difficulty with that)? Lastly (and possibly most importantly), what is so special about the Intel Extreme and how does it compare to the Intel Duo, Tri, and Quad?

13. Further Processor Selection. Any desktop replacement gaming laptop processors you guys (and gals) would recommend in particular? I plan to be playing big games like Crysis and whatever else hits the market over the next five years with this processor (unless it is easily swapped in the future)? I figure it should at least be 2.6GHz, but maybe that isn't sufficient? I have seen the laptops go as high as 3GHz (only two laptops offered it, if I recall correctly), do you think I should go for that high if I plan to last for five years and do games like Crysis and it's equivalents in the future?

14. Harddrives - One, Two, Three or More? I have already done my research on RPM's and decided I am willing to pay the extra bit more for 7200RPM. I have also decided that I need at least 160GB memory, preferably 200GB, and at most 250GB. I am also aware that given these decisions I CAN get all of this on a single harddrive OR can split it over multiple harddrives. So, my question is, what are the pros and cons of opting for just one harddrive over multiple harddrives? Besides the obvious "Back up" and "one side is data" concept?

15. Solid State Harddrives - What Makes Them So Special? I have read these links for the 32GB and 64GB solid state harddrives, but how accurate is this description from Alienware. Would it REALLY justify the added expense of $350 (from a 160GB 7200RPM) for a 32GB. Or an added expense of $950 (from a 160GB 7200RPM) for a 64GB? My laptop will be my ONLY computer for the next 5 years, home, travel, school, work, etc. Though, it will primarily be either at my desk at school or at home, not much traveling-around to classes/work.

16. RAID - 0, 1, or 5? I'm not particularly knowledgeable about RAID, I don't even know what it's about. All I know, is that it has something to do with efficiency and security, or something like that? Basically, I'm totally clueless. Anything at all about this topic in general would help. Just giving me a link to read is acceptable, too.

17. Things to Keep un Mind. For arguments sake (since I haven't gotten any of the answers yet). If I were to get a 3.00GHz processor, TWO 8800 GTX video cards, a 200GB 7200RPM harddrive, 4GB RAM, and Windows XP. Would there be anything else that any of you would recommend I be sure to get along with all of this, for fear that something might "choke" this potentially crazy-powerful laptop? Anything at all?

THANKS A TON GUYS (and gals). I really appreciate your time and consideration on the matter, it means a lot. Even if not a single one of these questions is answered, I will still be forever indebted to all of you (as a collective whole) for making this forum as it is.

 

V good questions man I cant answer any except maybe that Only apple computers can use Leapord OSX. Pc's can't use Apple's OSX. But apple can use both Leapord osx and windows.
Other than that im gonna keep lookin bak to see answer to these v good Q's.

 

Hey, thanks for the reply! I was getting worried no one was going to, ha-ha. I think I wrote to much, but I didn't have the heart to shorten it any more than I already had, for fear of loosing all the "implications" of my questions.
In regards to your response. Yes, I have heard that apple computers can use both OS's (through use of programs and partitioning). I had never heard of an instance of a regular pc being used to use both. Personally, I wouldn't mind going with a Apple to do it. But, I don't see any Apple computers on the market that are "high-end" enough for me. :/
Keep looking for more to answer. And don't forget to put the #s that you are responding too, ha-ha.

 

1. I have heard/read many times that video cards are very often unchangeable, that you are stuck with what you get. I am presuming this has to do with the motherboard. I was wondering if anyone would have a list of motherboards or know how to determine if a motherboard could house future video cards?

Not motherboards, per say. Look out for laptops that have MXM slots, these are as close to being upgradable as a graphics card can be. The difrerent types denote what kind of cards can be installed, so make sure you look at types. MXM laptops are typically things like Sagers and Dells.

2. I have been looking hard to find a good desktop replacement gaming laptop video card. The best around, from what I can tell, is the NVIDIA GeForce 8800m GTX. My question is, by getting two of them, is that what determines it is SLI? Because, I see that getting thrown around a bit randomly. Some say "two" 8800's, while I've seen some site's say "8800 sli's". I had been using this link, to try and figure it out, but I don't see it listed. Is there something I am missing? Or perhaps better video cards?

Twin or two cards in a laptop will be SLi.

3. Video cards and excess allotted memory. I have read a lot about how some video cards have more memory available to them than they ever use. Like having 512mb, when it only utilizes between 128 to 256mb of it. So, should I be saving my money on the extra money or am I missing out on something? Also, are there even options for less than 512mb 8800 GTX's, if that is the case?

Current high end cards like the 8600 8700 and 8800 can use 512MB of on board ram effectively. It's low end cards like the 8400M GS where more than 256MB of on board ram is a waste. Turbocache/Hypermemory really don't do much so don't get drawn in by that.

4. Comparing Video Card Technologies for Gaming. Could anyone tell me how exactly the NVIDIA GeForce 8700m GT (and SLI) is worse than the 8800m GTX? Or if there are reasons to support getting a card other than the 8800m GTX instead of a Quadro, when I intend to play games like Crysis with these kind of system requirements?

Well, in simple terms the 8800M GTX is just much more powerful. In real terms the 8800M GTX will be able to play games like Crysis at higher graphics settings, higher resolution and with more Antialiasing and Anisotropic filtering, so the game will basically give a much more satisfying experience with the more powerful card.

5. Operating systems - The Windows XP or Windows Vista debate. Personally, I don't care at all for the new Vista in terms of it's new features, I have no use for them, and the "nicer" looks don't much matter to me. I would consider it for the added security, however, I personally feel the security is worse than XP, as it is newer on the market and that we are sort-of like "testers" for them still. Beyond that, I have heard A LOT about how Vista is NOT nearly as good for playing video games as XP is. Is the difference truly so bad? Are there ways to get around the problem? The Crysis system requirements has a SEPARATE list of system requirements for Vista users, which is a lot more demanding than the XP, which concerns me. But, maybe that is only due to the fact that the Vista OS is simply more demanding than the XP OS is? Help, lol.

This is largely a personal call. Some people love Vista, others like myself aren't so taken and are sticking with XP for now. Vista does eat more system resources without adding a whole lot better performance (if any at all) to games as far as I can see, this is just my opinion.

6. Multiple operating systems practicality. Would anyone know if it's possible to multi-OS using laptops OTHER THAN the MacBook Pro (or any other Mac/Linux machine for that matter). I have seen other machine makers (like voodoo and alienware) offer multi-OS, however, they only offer different versions of Windows. Personally, I don't see the point in having two different versions of Windows (except for maybe the part in my question #5). I would want 1 to be Windows XP Pro (I have a CD installation already). With the other being MAC OS X Leopard (also have an installation cd already). Are there any limitations on what computers (or their parts) that determine my ability to do this? Also, if I can do this with most laptops, what is the best way by which to do it do you think (program or partition, I believe partitioning requires a reboot, however).

I'm not sure on that, I think it is possible but hopefully someone else can answer that in more detail.

7. 2GB/4GB RAM - With XP or Vista (32 or 64bit)? This may be a foolish question, but can Windows XP handle 4GB. Or is anything beyond 2GB wasted? If it's wasted, what should I do? Should I be considering getting a Vista? If so, what value is there to the 32 and 64bit question (as well as Ultimate and such), as I don't understand the differences well enough to determine the implications of which I choose. Lastly, if Vista is needed to properly utilize 4GB RAM, is it worth it? The only reason I'd get 4GB RAM in the first place is to ensure my stake in gaming for the next five (hopefully) years. But, if Vista is so "bad" at playing games, would it be best to stick at less RAM (presuming it can't utilize more than 2GB) and use XP?

Personally I'd want 4GB ram with Vista. If that is your choise you should go with 64 bit Vista/XP as it can address 4GB of ram. 32 bit Vista/XP can address 2.8-3.5GB (ish) of ram depending on the system. At the moment I game with 2GB ram on XP but for Crysis I know 4GB helps a lot, a friend upgraded from 2 to 4 and saqw a bit jump in framerates with Crysis using Vista.

8. Ram - How much is enough? For a really good Desktop Replacement Gaming Laptop, I figure it has to have at LEAST 2GB RAM, what do you guys think? My options are 2GB, 3GB, and 4GB. I rarely see 3GB offered, but the other two usually are. Do you think 2GB is enough, or is it more of a "minimum" for a really good laptop like I am talking about? If it's the minimum, would you think 4GB is enough, or is that overkill? In which case go with 3GB? Lastly, if 3GB, that would mean I would be using a 1GB and a 2GB memory chip, is that okay? Or does having different capability RAM cause issues of any sort (though, I can't see of any reason for that to be the case)?

In laptops using different sized sticks of ram doesn't cause any major issues, but for best performance and dual channel I think they should be identical (not sure about that). At least 2GB for gaming these days for sure, personally I have 2GB of ram on my laptop which just runs XP, but that's because I can rather than needing it. If I were playing Crysis I'd want 4GB. Ram is cheap these days, also you may be able to do the upgrade yourself cheaper after buying the laptop.

9. Typical/Notorious Company/Manufacturer Warranties. I believe that most warranties WILL allow for the changing of memory on your own (fact-check?) without voiding the warranty. What about other parts, such as the harddrive? Also, have any of you encountered any companies/manufacturers who are really bad (or good) when it comes to their warranties and their being voided from replacing hardware? Or overclocking even?

Most companies will allow you to change things that are easily accessable like the ram, hard disk, wireless card etc. Cpu upgrades will vpoi your warranty. HP can be dodgy for upgrades as can Asus on some models (Eeepc is one). Overclocking.... toughie. Cpu overclocking is never advisable on a laptop, gpu overclocking is more common and doesn't usually cause enough damage to be a problem.

10. Overheating - A real concern? I've been reading on these forums a bit about changing to Arctic Silver 5 on the gpu's and cpu's to help prevent overheating and not cause conductivity issues (as it is made of silver), to help reach the heat sink better. Should I be concerned about companies like Dell, Voodoo, Alienware, M-Tech, VisionMan, WidowPC, Sager, Falcon North West, Hypersonic, and others in giving me a cheaper alternative that can't get the job done properly? I only ask, because I see the Arctic Silver 5 talked about on these forums a fair amount and it has gotten me to wondering, as I always find my laptops are super-hot to the touch (I can barely keep my hands on the bottom of my laptop without pulling away because it feels like it's burning). Before anyone say's anything, no I haven't checked my laptop's temperature, it doesn't concern me, as I don't intend to be hanging onto this one much longer if I can help it.

Overheating is an issue. The laptops I tested with Core 2 Duo T7300 and especially the T7700 had overheating issues brand new. As for thermal paste, it depends on the company as to how effetive their thermal paste is. AS5 can give as good temperature losses as 10 degrees C but is usually more like just a few degrees C if any. If your cpu is easily accessable (there's a panel for it, like on most Asus laptops) then it'd be worth it, otherwise I'd say it's too much hassle. Overheating for long periods can affect your screen, hard disk and optical drive and cause them to fail, overheating is bad long term.

11. Network hardware selection. Networking is perhaps the most confusing aspect for me. I see a lot about the 802.11 a/b/g/n, so I am guessing that is the current standard? But, I also don't know anything about the internal network adapters, modems, routers, or anything else network related that I may have forgotten (like controllers? But, I think that word might be synonymous with adapters in this case)? Can anyone assist me (or perhaps provide a good link) to information on how to determine these things from one another? Also, since I don't plan to be getting a new laptop until I can get the 8800GTX (which, I believe comes out in February for those who intend to use two), will there be any NEW network cards to replace the 802.11 a/b/g/n around that time period, that are a significant enough improvement to give me a good consideration to wait?

the new one, n, hasn't even been implemented in most networking hardware yet, cards that support it are ahead of most other networking equipment so I wouldn't worry.

12. Processor selection. Intel Duo, Tri, Quad, and Extreme. These are the names I keep reading about (though, I have yet to see a laptop offer Tri). What is the significance behind all this and what to choose for a desktop replacement gaming laptop? Obviously, Quad > Tri > Duo. But, by how much for gaming? I have read a fair number of tests (and looked at fact sheets), showing how Tri and Quad technology don't appear to make much difference, except at really high resolutions (I will state now, I probably won't go much past 1024 x 768 resolutions, on my 17" monitor). So, is there any real value in choosing a Quad or Tri over Duo, or am I setting myself up for overkill? From what I've read, it's because the gaming market hasn't taken good advantage of this newer technology yet. So, from your opinions, do you think over the next 5 years (which, is how long I hope to make my laptop last for, will the newer DirectX 10 (and maybe in the next 5 years 11 or later) will start taking advantage of Tri and Quad more, making it a wise move to do it now? And, if there may be opportunities for it improving, would I be best to get the Quad (or Tri) now, or wait some years and upgrade my machine with one of them from a Duo (or, would I likely have difficulty with that)? Lastly (and possibly most importantly), what is so special about the Intel Extreme and how does it compare to the Intel Duo, Tri, and Quad?

Quad laptops tend to be huge and bulky for cooling purposes. I would say that unless you intend to play supremem commander a Core 2 Duo would make more sense. Quads for the most part are just bragging rights in laptops right now, as you can't do the mad overclocking the desktop quads can do due to heat issues.

13. Further Processor Selection. Any desktop replacement gaming laptop processors you guys (and gals) would recommend in particular? I plan to be playing big games like Crysis and whatever else hits the market over the next five years with this processor (unless it is easily swapped in the future)? I figure it should at least be 2.6GHz, but maybe that isn't sufficient? I have seen the laptops go as high as 3GHz (only two laptops offered it, if I recall correctly), do you think I should go for that high if I plan to last for five years and do games like Crysis and it's equivalents in the future?

Five years huh...? That's a long time for a gaming notebook. I guess you'll be looking at the T7500, T7700, T7800, X7800 and X7900 cpus. T7700 should probably be your minimum. I'd be concerned about heat issues with the T7800 or above unless it'sin a real fat beast of a machine. The X7*00 cpus have unlocked multipliers so you can overclock, but as I said above overclocking laptop CPUs are for people who want to cook their breakfast on their palm rest.

14. Harddrives - One, Two, Three or More? I have already done my research on RPM's and decided I am willing to pay the extra bit more for 7200RPM. I have also decided that I need at least 160GB memory, preferably 200GB, and at most 250GB. I am also aware that given these decisions I CAN get all of this on a single harddrive OR can split it over multiple harddrives. So, my question is, what are the pros and cons of opting for just one harddrive over multiple harddrives? Besides the obvious "Back up" and "one side is data" concept?

Two in raid can be fun. For gaming definitely go 7200rpm and high capacity also is generally faster. As for raid, you could go striping (2 with the same data, reads off both for higher speed) or backup (2 with the same data, one is a backup incase of data loss). You could also go with 2 seperate drives, one for games and one for data storage. If you can get 2 I'd go for 2.

15. Solid State Harddrives - What Makes Them So Special? I have read these links for the 32GB and 64GB solid state harddrives, but how accurate is this description from Alienware. Would it REALLY justify the added expense of $350 (from a 160GB 7200RPM) for a 32GB. Or an added expense of $950 (from a 160GB 7200RPM) for a 64GB? My laptop will be my ONLY computer for the next 5 years, home, travel, school, work, etc. Though, it will primarily be either at my desk at school or at home, not much traveling-around to classes/work.

SSD for gaming? Nope. That's a flat no.

16. RAID - 0, 1, or 5? I'm not particularly knowledgeable about RAID, I don't even know what it's about. All I know, is that it has something to do with efficiency and security, or something like that? Basically, I'm totally clueless. Anything at all about this topic in general would help. Just giving me a link to read is acceptable, too.

See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

Raid 0 is faster but data loss can b e deadly. Raid 1 is secure but no faster than a normal hard disk. Raid 5 requires 3 hard disks minimum so isn't really applicable to laptops.

17. Things to Keep un Mind. For arguments sake (since I haven't gotten any of the answers yet). If I were to get a 3.00GHz processor, TWO 8800 GTX video cards, a 200GB 7200RPM harddrive, 4GB RAM, and Windows XP. Would there be anything else that any of you would recommend I be sure to get along with all of this, for fear that something might "choke" this potentially crazy-powerful laptop? Anything at all?

THANKS A TON GUYS (and gals). I really appreciate your time and consideration on the matter, it means a lot. Even if not a single one of these questions is answered, I will still be forever indebted to all of you (as a collective whole) for making this forum as it is.

I think you should look at screen options carefully. With 8800M GTXs in SLi you could easily go for a WUXGA (1920*1200) resolution screen which would be great for games but might cause some irritation to the eyes during regular use in windows. I'd test out various screens and see what kind of dpi suits you best. For 17" screens you'd probably have the choice of WSXGA (1440*900) or WUXGA (1920*1200). I like big text so I'd take WSXGA, but each to their own.

 

Look for a laptop that uses default MXM standard cards. Dell does not.

8800m is the best cards out there for Video. I think, but am not sure Voodoo offers SLIed Graphics in there laptops

There aren't many options for the 8800m, I believe its only 512 right now

Basically the higher the number the more performance. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I would say there were more shaders and higher clocks in the 8800m

Yes you won't get as good performance on Vista as XP. As for security there both pretty secure as long as you have virus and malware protection. Purely gaming, go with XP.

Can't discuss this here its against MACs EULA. It's possible, but driver support for non-Mac Hardware is a PITA.

7. 2GB/4GB RAM - With XP or Vista (32 or 64bit)? This may be a foolish question, but can Windows XP handle 4GB. Or is anything beyond 2GB wasted? If it's wasted, what should I do? Should I be considering getting a Vista? If so, what value is there to the 32 and 64bit question (as well as Ultimate and such), as I don't understand the differences well enough to determine the implications of which I choose. Lastly, if Vista is needed to properly utilize 4GB RAM, is it worth it? The only reason I'd get 4GB RAM in the first place is to ensure my stake in gaming for the next five (hopefully) years. But, if Vista is so "bad" at playing games, would it be best to stick at less RAM (presuming it can't utilize more than 2GB) and use XP?

Only 64bit editions of XP or Vista can handle 4GBs. 2GB vs 4GB has been debated a lot. With Vista the more memory the better. 64bit OSes have issues with driver support. Now games really won't use 4GB of memory, Photoshop and other programs use the memory.

2GB is fine IMO. Seems to be the basis for most gamers. You usually want matched DIMM pairs so you can get a performance boost in Dual Channel. 3GB you loose that, but its almost always only seen in benchmarks. You may lose a FPS or 2, but not much.

Depends on the company. Overclocking is not covered by Warranty of any company period

As long as the laptop has good airflow, it'll be fine. Most of use get a laptop cooler like the Zalman ZM-NC1000

N is the newest and will not be replaced any time soon. Most laptops come with internal wireless as an option

Tri and Quad don't doesn't exist in laptops, won't for at least another year and a half. Dual cores might start being used in the next couple years. Intel Extremes just have the highest clocks and are unlocked for overclocking. Not worth the money to get one.

Focus on the GPU not the CPU. Doesn't matter, higher the clock doesn't mean more performance

Most laptops you can only have 1 HD. Only Voodoo and HP I think can have two. Just get one big enough to put your OS and Games/Programs on it. Then get an external and put all your files on it. For both backup and disaster recovery

Speed and pure speed. Fast load times. Right now there too expensive and not large enough capacity wise. Wait for you next laptop to get these

Raid 0 - Stripping for speed
Raid 1 - Redundency (One harddrive is a mirrored copy of the other)
Raid 5 - Never seen it done on a laptop.

You don't need raid on a laptop, period.

The fact your not gonna find a 3ghz Processor in a laptop and if you can its most likely a desktop processor and will get way way too hot.

You need to remember a Laptop is not a desktop. If you want desktop performance, then look elsewhere, a laptop is not for you. There are gonna be some differences and slightly less performance. Yeah its getting better than it has.

 

I'll hit on a few (bored at work)...

SSD drives are not made for mainstream laptops (not at this point at least). They are primarily for business users. They are best for people who need to be very mobile and have great battery life. SSD uses a small amount of power (no movable parts) compared to normal hard drives.

If you get a full blown DTR, then you maybe able to have 2 hard drives. At most you can get a RAID 0 or 1 configuration. Anything beyond that will require more than 2 hard drives. Raid 0 is used for performance and raid 1 is used for security. With raid 0, data is written between the hard drives, so a file is broken up and written between two discs. If one drive goes bad, you loose all your data. Raid 1 gives you security because it writes the same files to both discs, thus if one drive fails, you have the same files backed up on the other hard drive. Think of it as back up on the fly.

I suggest getting a network card that supports N. It's not popular right now, but given a few years, it will be the defacto standard, just like G is now.

With ram, it depends on what you will do. I don't feel that for gaming you need more than 2, but I don't play many modern games. Most people suggest going with 4 gigs... the price isn't that bad. The performance increase is good for many apps, especially if you use stuff like Photoshop.

Vista VS XP... there are tons of threads about this under windows. Go read them. Remember, if you want to game and use DX10, Vista is your only option.

Overheating: Yeah... my Sager had a problem with overheating. It caused the video card to malfunction within a year. I wouldn't say too many have heat issues, but you have to be careful not to block the exhaust vents (which is easy to do on many since they are on the bottom, where you legs would be).

Video cards... yeah, they're pretty much not changeable. There are a few that can be, but they are generally VERY expensive and you often have little choice.

I'll let others tackle some other Q's in more depth.

In the end, I say stay away from the full blown massive DTR's. You can often buy or build a desktop that is more powerful (or at least as powerful) for half the price, and it's easier to upgrade and expand. True DTR's like what ou talk about are very heavy and have little battery life (and virtually none while gaming).
You can then spend the difference on a portable laptop. Just remember hardware gets outdated pretty easily, do you want a laptop that will have problems playing next gen games or a desktop that you can dump $400 on a new video card to play next gen games?
Some people love DTR's... but think about the long term there. And I'm not saying they are wrong to buy, but I think they're a bad choice for a lot of people. Just think about that.

 

Welcome to the forum! Wow you have a big list. I will try to help you with some of them that I know.

1) Yeah video cards aren't upgradeable. Some graphics cards are actually soldered into the Motherboard I believe. Also the graphics card might not even fit into the actual notebook case. Just not worth the effort to upgrade the GPU.

5) I have been able to play games perfectly fine on Vista. I think this issue has been blown out of proportion. I don't have XP to compare my gaming experience with, but I don't think you need to worry too much about this. As more patches get released for Vista the operating system is improving.

7 & 8) I recommend you get 3GBs of ram. Vista 32 bit only recognizes 3.5GBs and Vista 64bit recognizes 4GBs. As you said XP maxes out at 2GBs. So yes you would waste 1GB of ram if you had XP. That is why I think 3GBs is the best. There will be no compatibility issues with a 1GB and a 2GB sticks of ram installed. That is what I am currently doing and it works great. I am using Vista 32bit and on average I only use half of the ram I have installed (1.5GB).

9) Yeah Ram and Hard drive replacement are normally fine. In fact I highly recommend buying your own ram separately and installing it yourself. It is very easy to do and you save money.

10) In your case Arctic Silver 5 might be a good upgrade since it sounds like you are going to be playing a lot of games. I did it once myself, but I didn't see that big of an improvement. If it is an option when you buy your laptop I would have the manufacture apply it.

17) A notebook cooler would be a must with that setup. lol Heck do you really need a laptop? You could probably build a desktop for much cheaper and then get a really cheap laptop if you need one for portability.

Hope some of that helps you out.
Tim

 

Google 'MXM', as realistically only those laptops could possibly ever have a decent chance of upgrading. If I laptop advertises MXM, then you are probably going to have a decent chance to get an upgrade down the road. Ask Ice-Tea and Gophn (two forum members) about it.

NotebookCheck is unreliable, don't use them unless there is no other sources.

As for SLI, it requires two cards yes. I'd think that any laptop that has two cards is also SLI, mostly because there is no other real reason for a laptop to have two cards. Keep in mind though that games have to support SLI (some do not), and that the price increase for SLI normally is not worth the performance increase.

As a general rule of thumb:
IGP can use around 64-128MB at most, anything else is wasted.
Low-end around 128MB or so. Get a 128MB dedicated card (if you get only 64MB dedicated and 64MB shared it will be perform as well).
Mid-range around 256MB or so. Get a 256MB dedicated card for similar reasons on performance as stated about low-end cards.
High-end cards are the only ones to possibly benefit from having 512MB, and they might be held back some if it comes with only 256MB. 512MB laptop cards generally use 256MB of dedicated memory and use 256MB of RAM, and that is the only time that you'll ever actually care for shared RAM.

Best resource here to compare are 3dMark06 scores and user testimonials. The 8800 is pretty new, so there might be a lack of information.

Without knowing for sure, I'd guess the 8700SLI would be a little more powerful than the 8800GTX-non-SLI.

In my personal experience, Vista is a pile of hogwash. Utter crap, and none of my machines have it. Gaming performance under Vista with the same system will be between 0-10% worse than the same system with XP. Maybe this is different now with Vista, but I'd personally pick what is known to work -- XP.

You cannot run OS-X on a non-Apple machine as it is illegal and against the Apple EULA. XP/Vista/Linux are really the only options available, but I do not see a point either. You might want to ask questions in the Linux forum about that OS.

XP can handle about 3GB, as would a 32bit version of Vista. 64bit does not add much value as it allows for 4GB for has a host of other driver/application related problems. MS really botched the 64bit stuff this time around, just like they did with XP-64.

In either case, 3GB of RAM will make your system very happy. Some games (I'm sure Crysis included) would benefit.

3GB, and no there is no problem with using two different sizes of sticks.

I cannot recall any warranties were changing the RAM or HDD would void it. Someone else will have to answer for the OC'ing.

Applying AS5 might void the warranty, since you have to dive so deep into the computer. You might want to ask the vendor you'll be purchasing from.

If they're heating solutions didn't work...they'd have their hands full with returned laptops and stuff that needs repair. AS5 might run cooler, but both solutions will run fine.

I generally prefer the latest Intel WiFi cards, but I refuse to use 802.11n. It does not play nice with other non-N networking equipment, and it is a draft standard that was never fully approved. Stick with 802.11g.

As far as other equipment goes, Linksys routers are top-notch and Belkin ones suck in my experience. Netgear is so-so, and I've never used D-Link so who knows.

Not sure what you are really asking about here. Want to set up a WiFi network in home?

Even the 'average' dual core processors are going to be fine for gaming. Quad core (there are no tri core yet) processors are an extreme rarity in notebooks right now. At best, you'll be getting much improved multitasking performance...which means that you can do more in the background (or handle more 'pop-up stuff' in the background) without it impeding on your main task(s).

Extreme processors, extreme price, extreme rip-off.

 

about your final thought on 3 ghz speed. It will be possible very soon. Just wait for penryn to set in and it will give higher speeds standard. So if you can wait a bit more you will get the 3 ghz speed u want. Also getting pernryn will help make ur laptop more future proof. Finally all this high end **** your talking bout will cost some deadly money. Either your stanky rich or been saving for years and def think its worth it to buy a replacement laptop. I'd rather get a gaming desktop + portable laptop. This would be a cheaper option.
Oh one more thing. Remember to buy a good warranty since such high end gear + bad luck = depression if you dont have a good warranty.

 

Alright, a ton of responses to address, and again, thank you all for replying! Forgive me if I don't address you all in specific, seeing as many of you answered all the questions, it sends me in loops determining credit for information.

Alright.

A. I see a lot of you bringing up the idea for getting a HIGH-END desktop and a standard portable laptop. I am also seeing (from uNiq1's post in particular) the concern on money.
Response: I have a budget of about $7k for hardware only, and an additional $1.5k to cover software, warranties, appearance, etc. So, I am willing to spend as much as $8.5k. With that said, I would of course like to save as much money as possible. So, why do I want a desktop replacement? For simplicity (which, this certainly is not, ha-ha). Even as a Computer Science student, hardware never really was my thing. I would want a All-powerfull laptop, because I don't want to be lugging my game-desktop back home every break, for holidays, occasionally weekends. Just isn't practicall. Now, obviously, it would save me a lot of $, but I figure I CAN get a good laptop. In seriousness though, try and talk me into a desktop pc if you think that is the right decision, my wallet would certainly thank you even if my mind fights it.

B. I've seen a few threads on here saying that XP (32bit) only allows for Direct X 9.0c, is that truely accurate? I have also seen you guy's saying there are RAM capacities depending on the OS.
RESPONSE: First, what makes it so Direct X 10 is allowed? Does it have to be Vista OR does it have to be 64bit? And if it is 64bit, why not go with XP. Which, in that case, can it not utilize 4GB then? It sounds like both the 64bit's (XP AND Vista) are truely messed up.

C. Some of you said that there are no 3.0Ghz laptops, nor are there quadro, extreme, or 3+ harddrives.
RESPONSE: To give just one example (and I have about 3 or 4 others), the Aviator EQ7 from HyperSonic has QUADRO, it has 3.0GHZ duo, and it also has THREE harddrives. It also has 8800 GTX SLI. If anyone wants, I will cull through my other laptop examples for an extreme, but I know there is at least one or two in there. When this machine, for example, is set up wit 4GB, XP PRO (32bit), Duo 3.0GHZ, it comes out to $4,661.82 (it also obviously has some other stuff on it). Yes, $4.66k is expensive. But, we are talking about an all-in-1 computer. Wouldn't a GOOD desktop computer of this power AND a notebook of "average" capability, cost about the same? Please, tell me if I'm wrong, I think I'm right, but maybe I'm making a big mistake.

D. In regards to the talk of the "N" wireless card. As well as the part about routers/modems/etc.
RESPONSE: I haven't seen ANY laptops supporting "N" wireless cards, I had heard they were the next step, but where are they!? As to the part about routers/modems/etc, no, I was not looking to set-up a network at home (I have already done that with an AirPort, I used to use LinkSys, but got about 15-20% better strength on AirPort). No, I am referring to the laptops that build-internally wireless adapaters, routers, and modems. Personally, that whole notion sounds whack to me, but I have located two websites that offer to put this IN your laptop (not an add-on thing for your household). Maybe I'm crazy and read it wrong? I read it at least a dozen times, though.

E. In regards to the MXM. One of you (Moon Angel) said that I might find these on Dells and Sagers. Where as someone else (Dice) said Dells do not.
REPONSE: This has begun to sound like this could get complicated. Even if I find an MXM, I'm not guaranteed to be able to carry get the next in graphics capacbility, right? So, my question in return is. Suspend disbelief for one moment, and say my 8800m GTX SLI lasts me (no computer breakdown) for FIVE years. In FIVE years, do you think the 8800m GTX SLI will be insufficent to manage the all-new break-neck games of those days?

F. Back to price. If I can manage a laptop for, say $5.5k. Covering the OS, 3-year warranties, software (excel, word, etc), all the best in hardware (4GB Memory, 250GB Harddrive 7200RPM, NVIDIA 8800m GTX SLI, Intel DUO OR EXTREME 3.00GHz, 17" monitor, second battery, 1.3Mp Camera, etc-etc). Would it not be worth the cost of $5.5k, would you say? Especially since I won't need to purchase an "average" laptop, and will be able to bring it with me to play (won't be grounded like a cheaper desktop version). Right?

G. Putting aside the Arctic Silver 5 (for now) and it's warranty voiding potential, what is a Laptop Cooler? What is that supposed to be? Dice also brought up the "Zalman ZM-NC1000" example. Never heard of a "laptop cooler" before.

EDIT: I have decided to take a new approach (all your posts have deffinatly taught me a lot more, as well as solidified what I thought was the case). I am going to put down a list of about 6-8 laptops I had been looking at for you all to see, with the configurations set to the nines. Tell me what you think and if you see any problems resulting in a "choke" (such as the gpu being to weak, thus making the extra cpu power pointless, things like that). As well as the whole Windows and RAM debate. Please, keep replying as you have been though so far to the above questions.
ALSO: I have a slightly-unorganized pre-thoughts list of all the laptops I was looking at here, in case you are getting impatient for me to write up the well-organized version of the laptops (as that could take me 2-3 hours).

 

A. I see a lot of you bringing up the idea for getting a HIGH-END desktop and a standard portable laptop. I am also seeing (from uNiq1's post in particular) the concern on money.
Response: I have a budget of about $7k for hardware only, and an additional $1.5k to cover software, warranties, appearance, etc. So, I am willing to spend as much as $8.5k. With that said, I would of course like to save as much money as possible. So, why do I want a desktop replacement? For simplicity (which, this certainly is not, ha-ha). Even as a Computer Science student, hardware never really was my thing. I would want a All-powerfull laptop, because I don't want to be lugging my game-desktop back home every break, for holidays, occasionally weekends. Just isn't practicall. Now, obviously, it would save me a lot of $, but I figure I CAN get a good laptop. In seriousness though, try and talk me into a desktop pc if you think that is the right decision, my wallet would certainly thank you even if my mind fights it.

If you do want to be semi-mobile, i.e. moving the machine long distance every few weeks, then a DTR would be a much better plan than a desktop and laptop, although for your budget Iwould have thoughtyou could get a pretty sexy desktop AND a pretty powerful yet portable laptop.

B. I've seen a few threads on here saying that XP (32bit) only allows for Direct X 9.0c, is that truely accurate?

Yes, that's correct, DX10 is Vista only. XP only supports up as high as DX9c.

C. Some of you said that there are no 3.0Ghz laptops, nor are there quadro, extreme, or 3+ harddrives.

There are laptops with Quad core, but these are desktop cpus. There are no mpobile quad core cpus yet. There are also laptops with Extreme cpus, The 3.0GHz ones I suspect are also desktop cpus, as (as far as I'm aware) The X7900 is 2.8GHz and that's the most powerful mobile-designed cpu out there right now.


E. In regards to the MXM. One of you (Moon Angel) said that I might find these on Dells and Sagers. Where as someone else (Dice) said Dells do not.

Sorry for being Vague. Dells do not offer MXM but they do sometimes have upgradable graphics cards.


G. Putting aside the Arctic Silver 5 (for now) and it's warranty voiding potential, what is a Laptop Cooler? What is that supposed to be? Dice also brought up the "Zalman ZM-NC1000" example. Never heard of a "laptop cooler" before.

A laptop cooler is a pad the laptop sits on. This pad has fans inside which draw air away from the bottom of the laptop. The good ones can take as much as 10 degrees C off your cpu temperature.

 

Thank you, that really cleared up my last questions.
The only two you still got me wondering on was...

B. It would seem imperative that I use Windows Vista, then. As, Crysis and many of the future games to be had will be Direct X 10.0 (or better when one is released).
QUESTION: How should I decide between the Vista's? Ultimate, home, buisiness, etc....32bit, 64 bit.... What should I be considering for this decision?

C. Some of you said that there are no 3.0Ghz laptops, nor are there quadro, extreme, or 3+ harddrives.
New Response: The 3.00GHz one I saw was Intel Duo. There WAS a quad-core, but it was either 2.4 or 3.6, I forget which, so I opted against it for the Duo with increased speed, given most games don't the extra processors very well yet.

G. Laptop cooling and Arctic Silver 5.
NEW QUESTIONS: Are there any other cooling methods I should know about? Because, you guys are making me a bit nervous that it will overheat since I will have "Desktop" parts in a laptop. And, yes, the laptops will be heavy. Between 8 and 13lb's, I believe. This bothers me little, though, I can lift the weight and it won't move except back-and-forth between my dorm room (school) and home room (back home). With the rare exception of a holidays trip (family stuff), and the equally rare trip to the library/class (I would only bring it for the purpose of a class project, never for anything else).

I will post the laptop specs for all the choices later....I am getting really tired, as I have been awake for 23 hours straight now, lol. I'll be back to replying around this time tommorow (7-8pm EST), for future responses to any you guys (and gals) leave for me.

 

If you saw a Quad-core CPU in a laptop, then it was a full blown DTR. I.E it uses small desktop parts. My Sager was used a desktop processor. But as far as a mobile core2quad, they're not in laptops yet.

You will certainly want a laptop cooler. A notebook like that will likely be very loud. I myself wouldn't use one in a quiet library, they are generally audible.

The 8800m GTX SLI will probably last you two years before you can no longer max out games. I know people that have bought maxed out SLI systems in their desktops to find out that withing 2 years, they can no longer play games maxed out. It will most certainly play games ok in 5 years, but likely not very well.

In response to yoru price, if you had 5.5k to spend, the very last thing I would ever do is get a DTR. It's your choice of course, but you could get a better desktop and a great mobile laptop (say for use in your classes) for that much. I understand the pain of dragging desktops between home and dorm, but I don't think it's worth spending 2-3k more just to save a little trouble. But if you're willing to pay that much for a laptop go ahead, it's your choice.

 

Alright....I've determined it would just be WAY to complicated to list all the hardware/prices out, so here is a "basic" look at all the laptop choices I have been considering. Some of these items I figured I ultimately most likely wouldn't do, due to a lack of processing speed (ex: AREA-51 m9750 & Sting517D2). None the less, I left all 10 for you all to compare.
NOTE: Once again, I wrote some more specified (though, somewhat disorganized) information about ALL of these pc's, as well as links to learn more about SLI-Tech, processors, Extreme's and other stuff here.

1. AREA-51 m9750 from Alienware

2. AREA-51 m15x from Alienware (Can't get exact specs, it will be released this Friday)

3. AREA-51 m17x from Alienware (Can't get exact specs, not due for release for a while)

4. One of the following four M or H model Envy's from Voodoo

5. MTECH D900C from M-Tech Laptops

6. Sting517D2 from WidowPC

7. Sting 917D SLI from WidowPC

8. NP9262 from SAGER
*. NP9262 from XoticPC
(the above NP9262's are more-or-less identical, but there are two different sites offering them with slightly different features (ex: Artic 5 Gel).

9. FragBook DRX from Falcon NorthWest

10. Aviator EQ7 from HyperSonic

I personally felt the best Desktop Replacement Gaming Laptop choices would probably be either #3 (release date not announced), #7, #8, #9, or #10.

 

You should look at building a LAN Party PC if you don't feel like lugging around your computer, yet don't need the portability of a laptop. A mATX computer would suit your needs better.

I'd combo this case, motherboard, and power supply together with a 6850+8800GT and it will smoke any laptop you can get your hands on for breakfast.

Thermatake Aluminium case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133035

Asus P5L mATX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131041

Antex EarthWatts 430W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371006


Old school Lan Party Box really needs to be brought back to style. You want Longevity? You can stuff a 8800GTX in there! (well, remove the HDD cage) You want to replace your processor? Can Do. Bigger monitor? Take your pick.

I'm tempted to build one myself now...

 

I believe a proprietary variation (MXM) so Dell has to release the card for your notebook for it to work. Dell owns Alienware now so double check on their connector. As Tim said though upgrading graphics not practical. Space and heat are issues, not like a desktop and limited options.

 

Yes, and just because they say that it's upgradeable doesn't mean it will be. I've seen it in the past where they have the ability to, but the upgrades are never actually released.

 

At first, admittedly your idea was a bit of a turn-off, because I'm thinking of how it would look weird carrying around (but, I could paint it to at least seem kinda cool, even if that does make me a nerd). Then I thought abbout how bringing it to the rare-case library group meeting would be a problem (big-whoop, I can carry onto a small portable screen I suppose, plus, this legitimizes my wanting to pay more for a good 20" - 24" screen (I was thinking of going with the Zalman-M220W, but I haven't looked into monitor's much, so there is a good chance I might pick something else).
So, now, I am thinking. WOW!! I could see how I could get a better performance machine and save money making it myself. I don't mind putting in the time/effort learning which parts are best and for what reasons (that should be evident just from my thoughts all over the place in my first 17 tech questions).

LanBox SPECIFICATIONS

This only leaves me with four concerns.
1. Just how powerfull do you think it can become? Even though it is larger than a laptop, it is obviously much smaller than a desktop computer. Would I still be able to manage...
Important: Intel Duo/Quad/Extreme 3.00GHz processor and upwards? Nvidia Geforce 8800m GTX SLI video cards? 200GB 7200RPM HD? 4GB DDR2-800 RAM (dual channel)? CD/DVD R/W optical tray? Wireless card (802.11 a/b/g/n). Ability to add an additional 1-2 ports (it already has two)? Surge protection (none listed on specifications)?
Semi-Important: I saw it had an optional 7" LCD pop-out. Would it be possible to rig it somehow to have a built-in (or fit inside a miniature) keyboard/mouse/speakers/microphone/camera?
Optional (unnecessary, but cool to have): Blue-tooth? TV Tuner? Anything else not listed above that would be cool?
Note: I figure some of this might be limited by this box (such as wanting more than 2 usb ports). Would anyone out there So long as it can manage the above (similar to the Aviator EQ7 notebook, I will be happy. Of course, even better is nice)! I realize this particular box may have limitations, so if you think there might be another box out there unlike this one which can meet them (like the 3+ USB requirement), feel free to note that.

2. How heavy do you think this machine will be when it's all said and done (it say's it weighs 6.7kg to 7.5kg as it is). If we are talking 12 pounds or below, superb! If we are talking 12 - 16 lbs or below, okay. If we are talking between 16 - 20 lbs, I might learn to cope. If we are talking 20+ lbs, I would be concerned. The weight wouldn't bother me for those rare-trips to/from school/home/work/vacations. It only concerns me because, come Fall of 09', I will be living off-campus, so I would have to carry this laptop with me to/from class, as there are no lockers available for storage/retrieval. And, the classes are a good 10-15 minutes walk from one another, so with around 5 classes a day, walking to/from car, we are easily talking about over an hours worth of carrying a day. Not to mention the risk of leaving it behind somewhere or for leaving it at my desk for 5 minutes if I go to the bathroom (because, I won't have a dorm room at college). You can see the inherint problem here.
Expected Proposed Solutions Inherint Flaw: I bring a "standard" laptop to/from school (though, it would suck when I have lots of time to spare between classes and don't want to drive to my off-campus housing) and leave the LanBox at my residence. But, if I am going to do that, then why the heck get a LanBox? I might as well trade it in for a full-blown PC and grunt the occasionall heavy-lifting, because I will have given up the advantages of a smaller-box at this point.

3. How difficult is it to assemble one of these machines? I should state now, I have ZERO experience in assembling computers. I HAVE looked at computer parts before, but I have no experience in the slightest. I know people who do at school, but it's a concern for me if this machine is inherintly more difficult with the limited space (and how will I know if I buy a part, like the 8800GT SLI, will not be to large to fit in there)? Would also hate to think that this will take more than 2 months to pull-off. :/

4. Heating/ventilation concerns. It doesn't appear to me (but, I could be wrong) that the case was very well-designed for containing sound and that the ventilation seems "average" (which adds to the sound). I read some of the user reviews on your suggestion, and they had talked about how the machine got to hot and deffinatly needed a 2nd fan (they also noted there was room to fit one). If I were to bring this machine to class/library, should I also be concerned that it is going to be overly to loud?

I've never seen anything like this and it is an interesting alternative, so everyone feel free to pitch in on this idea. As well as any other "Boxes" you all might recommend.

Gracias again!

 

The LanBox is an alternative to the desktop replacement. Seeing as you originally wanted a computer with scalability yet the speed to keep up with a desktop, I felt the LanBox was the more appropriate choice for you. Keep in mind this is NOT something that you will want take to class. it will still require a seperate monitor, keyboard and mouse. Plus it makes a tempting target for the petty thief :0

But it is a viable alternative where you have a situation where you need to take a computer from one place to another, where battery power is not a priority, performance IS a priority, and scalability IS a priority.

for your questions
Question 1. This is a 945 chipset that will support up to core 2 extremes not counting the new penryns. If you need more USB ports, I suggest getting a hub and plugging it into one of the ports. Save one of the two PCI slots for a wireless card. You can get a bluetooth, which is only available as a usb dongle. Currently, I know of NO mATX LGA 775 motherboards that support SLI. Maybe I'll Google it later.

Surge protection? Get a UPS. I don't know of desktops with surge protection.

Question 2. How heavy is it? I don't have a scale, but I can easily pick it up and throw it accross the room like a shot put. Why would you buy this over a normal desktop? So you can packup and unpack in record time. Again, this is NOT a laptop. This is a LanBox, meant to play the latest FPSes competitively for years to come.

Question 3. I won't lie. It can take some expertise to pull off. But like any SFF PC, they are quite a master piece to show off.

Question 4. No lie it will need venilation if you put a 8800gt in it. Again, it's not a laptop. Heck, I have 5 case fans alone in my Antec 900. and that has a 8800gts. But my 8800gts will smoke any laptop here.

Again. This is not something you take to class. Rather IMO it's a better solution and a more practical one than dropping 3 or 4k on a elite laptop when for less than that, you can get a lanbox that will outperform the laptop AND afford a portable laptop for office application needs.

 

A few replies here.

- I wouldn't want to take it to class, but I would want it with me for between classes (the elusive "perfect schedule" doesn't allow for an all-in-a-row class schedule). For those 2-3 hours I'm stranded, I would want my computer to do work (write essays, power point, do some coding for computer science, or kill some time on a game in the CSC lab (No one ever uses it, it's a shame)).

- Did you feel surge protection wasn't necessary for some reason? I only wonder cause you mention that you don't know of any desktops possesing one.

- So you don't think there could be room (after putting all the hardware in) to squeeze in one of those roll-up keyboards (or a projection keyboard)? Or a mini mouse? Guessing not, but I really wouldn't have a clue how much space would be inside. Obviously, I'd remove them when operating the machine.

A few questions here.

A. 5 fans.... that has got to be loud.... Seeing as you only have one 8800gts (which, I could be wrong, but I heard they are more efficient/silent than the gtx's), wouldn't TWO GTX's require even more fans? How would I fit them all? And wouldn't it be insanely loud?

B. You lost me on the "mATX LGA 775 motherboards that support SLI" and "945 chipset". I'm not very informed on the motherboards/chipset end of things, but why does that type matter? Surely there are motherboards out there to handle SLI, they already have it for the 8700 gt series? And, I KNOW there are laptops coming out with 8800 GTX SLI come late February. Why late February, I don't know, it's just two video cards working together (I suppose there is more that goes in to it than that though, so that may be the reason).

C. I know you couldn't give an exact (I don't really know), but how much do you figure the LanBox would cost me with the type of hardware specifications I gave above?
+ Intel Duo/Quad/Extreme processor (at LEAST 3.00 GB)
+ Nvidia Geforce 8800m GTX SLI video cards
+ 200 GB 7200RPM HD
+ 4GB DDR2-800 RAM (dual channel)
+ CD/DVD R/W optical tray
+ Wireless card (802.11 a/b/g/n)
+ Ability to add an additional 1-2 ports
+ Etc?

D. Two-parter questions/responses to the usb ports (and hub suggestion).
1. I thought the 945G Micro ATX Intel Motherboard you suggested had four usb ports? Would I not be able to get it to work with the lan box? Possibly by, I don't know, cutting a whole in the frame? Though, I would hate to have to resort to that, as I may wish to reuse the case in the future! Lol.

2. Technically, I only "need" two usb ports. The reason I wanted at least three was so on those small occasions where I plug in my usb key. With a hub I would have to unplug my mouse/keyboards (which use the two slots), plug in the hub, plug back in the mouse/keyboard, and then plug in the usb key. Not worth the effort, lol. Would also need an extra slot for low-end to "standard" speakers (unless there are speakers out there that don't need usb plug-in? I use plush penguin speakers, but their short battery-life is too impractical without the usb port). And before you even say it, I am sure the keyboard/mouse have a place to be plugged into the computer without needing the usb ports (tell me though if I am wrong), but I am using a keyboard that only allows for usb-connection. It's a DAS keyboard and yes, I know using a blank keyboard makes me seem like a bit of a showy nerd. So sue me.

E. Crazy idea here (and maybe this is against the law, so please tell me if it is). Since I can retrofit this LanBox with whatever I want, could I not go down the route of getting the set-up for an apple (with the same processor strength and other stuff above) and be allowed to use Mac OS X Leopard (as well as XP, which I would either use an application to run or partition the harddrive)? I would also upgrade the harddrive space from 200 to 250 GB if I were to do so.

 

No, you cannot legally setup a PC to run OS X. It can be done, but it does not work very well, and again, it is not the most legal thing in the world.

If you go with a desktop, I recommend buying a Terabyte hard drive. They are pretty much the fastest SATA drives out there (tomshardware shows they are faster than Raptor drives).

As far as your usb thing.... Why not keep a hub plugged into your desktop/cube? And most speakers don't run off USB... they use a normal audio connection. At least the decent/good speakers do (of course they don't run on batteries).


I think surf was saying that you should buy a UPS (interruptible power supplies) for your system. Desktops don't have batteries. If the power goes out, your desktop immediately crashes. But regardless of what machine you have, make sure you keep it plugged into a surge protector!

 

-Alright, I'll keep the OS X illegal bit in mind.

-A terabyte harddrive is SOOO much more space than I need. I'd probably make due with 160GB, I'd be assuring myself with 200GB. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but most online games (once loaded/started) don't require a lot from the harddrive to play. At that point, it's mostly your RAM/Processor/Network Speed/Video Card. The 7200RPM is so I could reduce the wait time for starting-up applications/games. How much faster would a TB harddrive be than 7200RPM (I can't see why the additional space would make it go so much faster)?

-Yeah, I guess I can carry around a hub, but then I am carrying around more things everytime I move (Box, Mouse, Keyboard, Speakers, Monitor, Headset, hub). Though, I would prolly keep a seperate monitor at home (and I can get the bult-in 7" for dire situations). Point is, I'll find myself carrying so much, it's going to be a hassle.

-Gracias on the UPS and surge protector clarification, I understand now what that was all about.

Anyone else able to answer those other questions A through D, though? Would be much appreciated.

 

I could give opinions and info, but I see so many responding with good info and Ideas I feel I will just input the same info as some. I have followed this from early. Your budget is so high, you don't need to spend that money. I am trying to say instead of using money to stay ahead of technology (it will never work, you can't really see one year ahead let alone 5 years) buy something top end for now put what you save in the bank and in two or three years spend it on things we can only dream of now. $4000 can get you an insane notebook certainly tech wise as good as anything (some brands cost more because of name and paint job not considering those) thinking Clevo,Alienware,Dell and many more I can't list. My opinion is stop trying to project further into the future than is possible and use money to protect. Think 5 years back everybody, won't current notebooks for say $2,000 hang close to a 5 year old desktop in gaming and stroke it in everything else! Not to mention a $4,000 notebook might stroke one in everything. I say this from my experience, my first note book top of the line Dell $3,200 in 2000, 450Mhz P3 CPU, GPU 8MB, 192MB RAM. 2006 $800 1.6Ghz dual core, IGP 512MB, 2GB RAM. Do as you like I am concerned what you are asking or attempting to do is impossible. I feel better getting this off my chest. And you have received many great answers, just 5 years is too long, 2 years is hard. Spend $3,000 to $4,000 and just buy sooner!

 

TB hard drives run at 7200 rpm. They are faster mainly due to platter density. See, it has to pack the data into the same space, thus can get to the data faster. These drives are (in some cases) faster than the WD 10k rpm Raptors.

Though, these are full sized 3.5" hard drives, you would not be able to use these in notebooks. In regards to the total size, the more filled up the hard drive becomes, the worse its performance. At 50% capacity, the performance starts to drop rapidly. So you really would want to aim for the largest, fastest drive, even if you don't plan on using 50% of it. As far as games, many take up around 5 gigs. World of Warcraft takes close to 10 gigs I believe (at least 7 with expansion pack).
Regardless, many games will load data even if you don't have a loading screen. For games that do have loading screens, the load should be much better with a faster, larger hard drive.

FIY, the 5400 rpm 250 gb drive i have in my laptop beats my 100gb 7200 rpm drive I used to have in it... hands down.

 

In response to Powerpack: I understand what you mean about the growth of technology outdating itself very quickly. I once read in the NY Times (not sure if I believe it, but it left an impression) that technology doubles every 10 years in the USA. I guess I was thinking I could get that "just right" motherboard and replace it with all the parts "cheap" as time went on. Maybe I am deluding myself? The reason I have such a large budget is because I was viewing this as an investment for my future, because I'd save money along the way making my own parts (that is one of my goals to either by the time I get my BS in computer science, or when I get my Master's (likely to be in Computer Forensics)). The idea of the LanBox kinda struck me as a good-compromise inbetween, too. As I could just leave it at home and "supe it up" after college is done with. For the most part, in my eyes, everything is becoming faster, more capable, more efficient, and smaller all the time. It's that thinking that brought me to my original conclussion.


In response to Hollownail:
- I see, that clears it up a lot (I had been researching the TB harddrives and had saw the part about platter density, it had confused me a bit though at the time). I had been looking up some specifications for read/write statistics on different harddrives. Here's a few nice bar graph comparissons if you (or anyone else) are interested. Read, Write, Access Time, Interfacec Bandwith, Assorted Benchmarks, and etc.
- I understand about how much space you use up affects your speed. I had factored that into my thinking. I really don't plan to use more than maybe 80 GB (counting the OS + games). I tend to delete things off my computer all the time when I know I likely won't use them again. And I always keep the installation of every program I ever acquired (that I liked) on an external harddrive to make sure I don't lose it (as well as preserve harddrive space). At 160GB, I'd be using up about 50% space. At 200GB, I'd be using up about 40% space. At 250GB, I'd be using up about 34% space. I realize as more larger applications/files are released (like High-Definition and such), space will get filled up at an ever higher rate, but by the time that all happens I figure I'd be on to a new harddrive anyhow. Though, I've never given much thought, admittedly, to just how much it slows it down. So I'll keep that in mind (I'll put that on my list of things to look up more on).

- I hate WOW, so no worries about that.

To Everyone:
- What views do you guy's have on the "hybrid" and "flash" approaches to harddrives?

- I don't want all the conversation to switch to this one question, but does anyone know if products (like this, maybe?) are out there than can very-quickly transmit laptop information to a television? I only ask, because maybe this would be a solution to my needing two monitors (one for home and one for school). Since I got a television at both places, maybe I could utilize television at school and use my monitor while back at home? Obviously, the signal needs to be almost instantaneous, otherwise it's not worth considering anymore.

 

Sorry, Thank you for the response! Please! YOU CAN NOT DO WHAT YOU WANT! I tried to be nice! It will not happen! But good luck!

Edit: Ten years? What? with all do respect it does not go TEN months? 2 Quarters about 6 months at best. 10 years? What?

New Edit: about a month!

 

AHHHHHH!!!
Alright.
When I said 10 years, I was refferring to technology in general, not just computer-related technology. I would bet computers double a LOT faster than 10 years. But, when you take into account the miniaturization (like, those 45 and 65 nanometer things (processors?)), I figured the size of the box would hold for anything in the future (even if I get a bad fashion-statement rep for carrying around some heavy box, lol. I never was one to care for fashion, practicallity is where it's at)!

....new approach....
What would you (powerpack, as well as anyone else reading this) suggest I do?

- It's got to be semi-portable (to/from home/school).
- It's got to be POWERFULL (at LEAST as good as the strongest Desktop Replacement Gaming Laptop on the market).
- It's got to be practical!
- It ought to be upgradable (change out hardware entirely)!

So?

 

As I said before! I do not say this lightly! I only resounded to help, you constantly ask for much more than is able! You will never achieve you goals. Have a party!

 

:/ (All I can think of to say)