2720QM vs 2820QM vs 2920XM

cheers for that - really appreciate it

 

except for single thread games or poorly optimized games. In HL2 i get horrible fps becuase my cpu can't keep up. If i had a faster model of the i7 it would do better...or if i just invested in setFSB lol

My 260m will chill at like 35-80% ultilzation while the cpu is maxed. and my frames go from 30-180fps. 30fps is when its at like 35% utilization for the gpu

 

holy crap $200 for the extra 100mhz and 2mb of cache if you go from a 2720qm to a 2820qm??

i dont think i could ever forgive myself if i went for the 2820

 

was a similar case for 820qm from 720qm but it was a $300-500 upgrade.. can't remember actually what it was..

Panther214

 

That's standard tiered pricing. Was $200 if I wanted to upgrade my CPU from 720qm to 820qm with its extra 133mhz-266mhz + 2Mb. Whereas if I use the factory overclock mode, I get that for free anyway...

If you want free overclocking - yell at AMD for not having a competitive product. Tell em to hurry up with their 32nm CPUs!!!

 

lol so true

EDIT: I do like their K125 and K325 in netbooks ^^ stomp atoms and still have 4-5 hours of life

 

Something else is up there. I played through EP1 and EP2 with a Core2 T5450 (1.6) and a mobility 2600XT, and my frames were always above 60. There's no way an i series chip is bottle-necking you.

 

i play at 1080p 16xaa and 16xAS and everything maxed. Me and thalanix have figured out that its a limit in the cpu. 720QM has a hard time with such a single core focused game. After they added multi core support it helps but didn't fix the issue. Ask thalanix and he will tell you.

EDIT:I play with 30 bots and i go to 10-180 fps...10 with 30 alive and by time all die i get 180....now when there are 15 dead bodies floating in water and i star at them my frame rate goes from like 180 by looking at sky box to 25 looking at water. Dead bodies in water require a lot of physics...aka cpu usage.

 

Ok, that makes a bit more sense then.

 

its the lack of cpu power....the 720XM can't handle it. my gpu will run at 35-75%....sometimes even lower if i add overclock lol.

 

Sandy Bridge seems to signal the death of discrete low end GPUs.
Nvidia is in trouble...
Low Power Consumption kills buggy Optimus (The fact they mount it on the same chip saves even more power)
1 Less GPU chip -> Smaller Chipset -> Smaller Laptop.
The new Nvidia GPUs isn't throwing out any major performance / power efficiency boost
GPU is going the way of dinosaurs, going to be APU onwards.

 

I don't think Nvidia are in too much trouble, infact they seep to be expanding...into cpu/apu.

Lookie here http://forum.notebookreview.com/hardware-components-aftermarket-upgrades/545550-arm-race-windows-nvidia-goes.html

 

ARM market is saturated.
There are too many players to get a substantiate part of the market.
Anyone who license the ARM cores can play the ARM game.
They are going to lose the GPU Market share in the x86 game (Where membership is exclusive).
Point: They are going to lose an income channel.

 

That's part of the point, though. They're not going after the saturated traditional ARM market, they're trying to upscale the ARM processor enough so that it can compete in the x86 arena (well, at the low end/Atom level, anyway). And the Atom level market is admittedly pretty huge. Now, whether or not they can pull it off is an entirely separate question, but with Windows 8 promising support for ARM CPUs, they at least have a chance. We'll just have to see how powerful the ARM CPU they come up with actually is, and what price point it'll come at.

 

well said. I think they got a fairly good chance to pull it off. Especially since Microsoft is going through the effort to support them. It's a win win for ARM and MS. ARM gets into another market and MS gets even wider range of support. Think of all the extra tablets that MS can support now? As long as MS adds some good touch screen support to W8. Tablet with W8 sounds awesome ^^

 

Well the problem they face is
1)Weak Performance, over the years Intel threw in billions to make IA-32 the powerhouse it is today.
2)Different Instruction Set, IA-32 is a CISC/RISC chip while ARM is a original designed RISC Chip, porting is not going to be easy.

So by the time they can pull it off it is going to be a long long time.
Yes you can try to compete with Atoms but at the rate Intel pump out their chips they can destroy competition just by pricing and power.
I for 1 will not buy a ARM Core + Nvidia GPU setup with weak General Processing performance unless it is dirt cheap.

 

Why no love for the i7-2630QM? It'll be more than adequate for most people, and more powerful than most current mobile quads. Unless you do lots of encoding or other apps where the CPU is tasked for long periods of time, it won't matter all that much. Especially considering most places are charging $150-$200 to upgrade to an i7-2720QM.

 

i really want a 2720 at least but at a 150usd premium ill stick with the 2630

 

My plan is to update to a 2820QM later when prices have dropped and when I have the need for it, or another faster CPU that is released at a later date. But $160 upcharge for the Sager models, and $400 (lolwut?) on the Asus G73SW.

 

yeah. is there any advantage to the 2720qm aside from the faster clocks? have they disabled any features on the 2630qm?

 

lol i almost always go for the lowest clocked cpu, there is no way that 0.6ghz is worth 350 to 400$, and not only that, but because it's running at a lower frequency, it'll use less energy and produce less heat

for desktops, higher frequency is always better, but for laptops running on battery, this is not the case (unless battery life and heat don't matter that much, like with gaming laptops, which aren't really meant to run on battery anyway)

 

the less energy and heat is trival. Now as i said earlier the lowest CPU is best bang for your buck but the XM is best for overclocking and performance...for a price ^^

 

GTA IV, Flight Simulator x (a cpu hungry sim unlike 2004). What do you think about those?

 

Do you really think they will drop? I think they will only drop when ivy bridge is released, then we will start talking about ib processors and forget about those. oh, this makes you go nuts

 

They're opening at a premium now because they're brand new. Give it a month or two and prices will come down, especially in regard to ebay sellers.

 

what about retailers?

 

Retailers is what I was talking about, new tech is always inflated because demand is at it's highest. Ebay sellers are just more effected by this, thats all.

 

I would see that as being it's downfall. There is already a market for ARM and Windows CE with mobile devices such as PDAs and mobile phones but to encroach on X86 would mean emulation or compiling programs to work natively with both, something which I find hard to see happening. Best I can see is a niche market similar to what happened to Itanium. Time will tell.

 

Considering current quads run these fine, and the Sandy Bridge is definitely an overall better performer, I'd say no problem.

 

We'll just have to see. I'm not ignoring your points, mind, but until we get more information, we just won't be able to tell how things will pan out. Power-wise, I don't know that it's as big of an issue; after all, they've been trying to push smartbooks with (regular) ARM processors for a few years now, and I think those have failed mostly due to lack of software (this was pre-iPhone and Marketplace, after all), not lack of power.

As for a different instruction set, does that happen at the OS level or the application level? The coding I've learned (some time ago) never really got into instruction sets, so I would normally assume that's handled at the compiler/OS level, but I don't actually know. If it's at the OS level, then the Windows 8 support should theoretically cover that. Again, it's a case of missing information.

 

It's at the application level, much like 32-bit and 64-bit compatibility.

 

Ah, alright then. Well, the rest of my points still stand, point being that we'll just have to see exactly where they try to go with it. For example, with NVidia's push for GPGPU, they might be figuring to use that to supplement the processing power of the ARM, which might be enough to push the power levels appropriately, especially as compared to Atom/Ion, trying to achieve something on the level of low-end Fusion APU. And if they're just targeting the netbook market, the full performance of x86 isn't exactly needed.

 

Instruction set difference occur at Machine Language Level, the binaries the processor is able to execute.
It occurs at the most fundamental level.
It is NOT 32 bit 64bit difference it is bigger than that.

They have cross compilers but they are not perfect.
To get over it they have to recompile the source code on cross compilers and it may still not work due to kinks cross compilers isn't able to iron out.
Emulation will work but performance overhead will be encountered.

Performance really has a big difference, if you check the amount of tricks added for x86 from Branch prediction units to register renaming, pipelining etc you will know they really put in a lot of hack/tricks to get the performance they are getting now, and they are still improving on it.

 

Thank you for that. I'll remember it so that I don't spread false info next time.

 

Actually for general purpose applications there is little issue in cross compiling. It is not that bad.
The problem is powerful applications tends to make use of special instruction sets like SSEs to boost performance. And what is inside IA-32 may not be inside ARM that is when the problems appear.
There are also programs that use Assembly inside C code, special attention has to be paid as well.

 

wow i dont understand anything that weinter is saying

 

I think he's saying this:

 

What is the difference between 720qm and 2720qm?

 

It's massive. The 2720QM is clocked 600MHz higher at the base frequency and has a much higher multi-core Turbo Boost. Since on top of that it is using a superior architecture, it ends up being literally twice as fast in heavily threaded scenarios and about one and a half times as fast in lightly threaded ones. On top of that, it has much better battery life

 

It's not quite twice; more like 60% faster. Still, that's massive.

 

In heavily multi-threaded tasks, it really is more or less twice. Here is a review that compares the 2820QM to the 740QM. The scaling from the 740QM to the 2820QM is 2.33 for PC Mark Vantage, 1.84 for multi-threaded Cinebench, 1.89 for x264 video encoding pass 1 and 1.65 for pass 2.

The comparison for 720QM to 2720QM should be similar except that the 720QM loses more: going from the 740QM to the 720QM costs you 7.7% of your clock speed whereas going from the 2820QM to the 2720QM only costs 4.3% (you also lose some cache, but that hasn't mattered in a while). I expect the difference to average somewhere between 1.9 and 2.

 

How about the prices, will the newer laptop with 2720qm have the same prices?
and also can I upgrade to 2720qm from i5 430?

If I know this will come I will wait for this thing

 

Prices are difficult to say. Indications so far are that prices are about the same as they were for Clarksfield starting out.

And no, you cannot upgrade from an i5-430M (or any other Arrandale/Clarksfield) to an i7-2720QM (or any other Sandy Bridge).

 

They're the same as Clarksfield, but there's the cheap 2630QM which Clarksfield didn't have and it costs a little more than half of the 2720QM, but has only slightly lower performance.

 

Actually the drop in performance from 2720 -2630 is quite noticeable because the max turbo is 2.6ghz on the 2630 and 3ghz on the 2720. where as the drop from 2920XM and 2720qm is a lot less.

So i think for CPU intensive purposes the extra $150 or so for the 2720 is worth it in the long run.

I would love to see how high the guys using throttle stop can get the 2920XM to run at maximum threads. if its stable at around 3.5 on all cores it would be a killer upgrade once the price comes down. assuming the 2820 can only hover around 2.7ghz with its 45w TDP.

 

Intel lists the following on their site: "Tray 1ku Budgetary Price $378.00"

Add a couple of bucks for the consumer price

 

my guess is 740qm is just 20-30% slower to be frank.. compared to 2720qm.. however remember that the 2630QM is more on 740QM's lvl.. 2720qm is more like 820qm..

Panther214

 

While I wasn't too keen on the original i7 quad cores the new 2720 may be the base CPU that lures me out of the C2D age........

 

which laptops are with 2720qm?
any news of vaio's with sandy bridge?

 

so which one is worth to get ? i really like 2820qm after seeing anandtech review but its very pricey there isnt much difference between 2720qm and 2820qm except 2mb l3 cache but i see huge difference from 2630qm to 2720qm so i think 2720qm is bang per buck