28W i7-4558u

Hey guys,

anybody have an estimate when we can expect to hear from this processor again? Currently running an HD 4000 that is pretty much enough for all my games, barely. I'd love to push it over the edge with an HD 5100.

I gotta say, I'm surprised there isn't more talk of this processor. This should give ultrabooks so much power, that it pretty much makes big gaming notebooks redundant...

 

That's quite an oddball CPU...its TDP is nearly twice as much as the typical ULV processors so it will not work in a 11"-13" chassis that well, but the CPU's clock speed is high enough to be a regular voltage dual core processor. The HD 5100 is missing some important features from the 5200 such as the eDRAM, so its performance is around a GT 635M.

I wouldn't expect this CPU to show up in a sub-$1000 ultrabook though, and even then you are still at the mercy of Intel's sporadic video driver updating history so mid-range dedicated GPUs are not quite in danger just yet.

 

No, true, but any given mid range dedictaed GPU has more TDP than the processor.

It's a ~60% increase in TDP from where I am now, while a dedicated card would add a whopping 200% TDP. Fully clocked, I'd need to cool off the 35W + the 15W.

So, for similar performance, we're looking at 28W vs 50W TDP. From my 17W now, 28 looks managable, but 50 looks ridiculous.

 

HD 5100 may beat 630M GT in 3Dmark11 because it is optmised for it but it's an apu and there are big chances that the 630M GT will still smoke it in real games. But it will definetely beats HD 4000, especialy paired with high frequency dual channel ram.

 

Not too soon. The only known one is the Zenbook Infinity, and that's Q3/Q4. Officially Intel puts Back to School timeframe for Ultrabook launch, and that's probably where lot will launch. For comparison, the higher end Iris Pro 5200 is coming in Q3, so it may be same for the Iris 5100 as well.

Intel compares the performance against the Geforce 710M.

 

Any speculation as to why the 4558U does not support Intel vPro but the 4650U does?

ARK | Intel® Core i7 4650U Processor

ARK | Intel® Core i7 4558U Processor

 

Because the 4650 has TXT and the 4558 doesn't.

 

Yes, well, that is is essentially the same point - the lack of security on a, presumably, better performing chip.

It would seem that the 4558 may not be intended for all (any) enterprise platform(s)..

 

The 4558 is not a better performing chip. They are actually the exact same chip. In fact, the way Intel works, a 4558 and a 4650 could come from the exact same wafer. The only difference is that one would be targeting the business laptops and the other mid range personal laptops. That is why one of them has a higher range of dynamic clock frequencies and better security against backdoor attacks - a classic contender for business laptops. Two birds with one stone. Intel engineers worked on one product, labelled them as two (actually more) different products and sold it for different markets. Larger market capture at no extra effort.

 

The new Macbook Pro's will be using the 28W ULV's, so this one might be an option.

 

The new Macbook Air has the i5 4250U. 15W with Iris 5000 graphics. I was almost expecting Apple to use at least 5100 graphics, but it looks like they went with other priorities this generation.

Actually, it all has to do with binning. The higher quality chips get binned 4650 and the lower quality chips with issues get their non-functioning parts deactivated, then they bin them lower... then they're sold as lower models.

 

To be honest, I don't think binning would apply here. These two processors are far too alike. Binning primarily changes two things - cache and clock speeds. So the 3610qm and the 3720qm were probably binned differently because the 3610qm came from a lower quality part of the wafer, i.e. top or bottom. Furthermore, the 3940XM was probably right from the middle of the wafer and was as close to perfection as technology would allow and so could overclock more, had lesser defects in cache and was thus probably not binned.

However, these two chips have the same cache and same Turbo clock speeds. I do agree that I do not know much about the hardware implementation of TXT and vPro in general so it could be that those parts of the die are also very susceptible to fabrication defects, in which case, turning those off in the defected chips would mean that those could be sold as the 4558Us while the more perfect ones with no defects in the vPro areas of the die could be sold as the business model

 

I appreciate the insight. I do not think they are the same chip, simply because the architecture, gpu, cache sizes and memory bandwidth are much too different. But, you are right, they very well could be binned similarly. I had assumed the higher TDP would naturally equate to higher clocks, therefore a better performer, but that does not seem to be the case.

Intel Core i7 4650U vs 4558U

Forgetting for a moment this is a ULV, intended for slim ultrabooks, I would not buy anything these days without enhanced security for such a mobile device or recommend it for anyone seriously using this as a personal/business device. Plus the 4650U has a much higher memory bandwidth and it's unlocked, to boot. When considering the extra 13 watts, and 28+C operating temp. difference, it seems the 4650U is a much better option for a ultrabook.

If Apple is indeed intending to use it, I wouldn't be at all surprised the 4558U was designed specifically for their product line.

 

The higher TDP comes from the fact that the max idle clocks are higher. Like I said, the lower cache comes from the fact that caches are the most susceptible to fabrication defects. You turn off that part of the cache and you have a 4558U. The GPU is the only difference but I doubt it is going to help a mid-tier user much. Their architecture is the same because they are both core "i" chips with two i7 cores.

The memory bandwidth is the same. The data on that website is incorrect. Both chips support 1600 dual channel which implies they have the exact same bandwidth.

The TXT feature does nothing to help the user if your operating system is genuine. If you purchase a licensed copy of Windows 8, TXT will not be of much help.

 

So what are you saying? Simply higher base clock can increase TDP? Sounds strange. What then does HD 5100 mean vs HD 5000?

 

Binning:

How does binning not apply?

Leaving vPro and TXT enabled will allow them to sell them at a higher price. Deactivating those features costs Intel nothing, allowing them to sell more of the same chip at a lower price, just these will be in consumer machines.

 

Yes like I said - I do not know much about the vPro hardware. It could be that they bin them. They wouldn't bin them if the chips weren't faulty however. They could simply not fab them with the links to the vPro hardware disconnected. Binning costs Intel money. The chips that need to be binned need to be moved to an (I am guessing) etching contraption that would require energy to run and etch off metal to disconnect contacts.

 

I am waiting for 4558u. Just to be clear, the base frequency is not just the "idle" clock. It is sustainable clock frequency under load condition. They may both spike up to 3.3ghz, then due to thermal the 15w 4650u would drop down back to 1.7g if both are active. That's why in the chart iris 5100 is much better than 5000. The cpu is (2.8-1.7)/1.7=>64% faster if running in full power like in photoshop. Battery life? 4558U can still be regulated to 50%load in power settings to yield to the same.
Evidence is in the new air benchmarks. 4650U actually yields lower score than my current Lenovo X220T (2620M). I'm not downgrading my processing power. Just some opinions... The same fab process? doesn't care. vPro? have not used it yet.

 

I found this discussion really illuminating... thanks to everyone who's shared what they know. It seems very few people are discussing the chip online.
Since it's been a while since anyone's asked: anyone know of a laptop or tablet that will be running this stock? Thanks very much.

 

The Asus Zenbook UX301 will be running this chip
It sounds like a really amazing ultrabook, and it may end up being the best competitor to the MBA. Performance is fantastic!
And damn, it's looking sexy