2nd and 3rd gen Intel CPUs

Hi guys, I'm really sorry if this has been posted before but I've spent several hours looking for it. I'm buying a laptop, and in order to save some money, had an idea.

Would it be possible to put a new 3rd gen Ivy Bridge mobile processor in an older, let's say 2010 2nd gen Sandy Bridge laptop? Are they the same socket (or LGA Array) type? Will the BIOS recognize the new chip?

Then assuming it does work, would Turbo boost and also the energy efficiency available on the older motherboard?

Next related question, when did NVidia Optimus come out? Are then any older cheap 2nd gen laptops out there that I could toss a new discrete gpu and 3rd gen Intel into and call it a brand new laptop for me to use?

Thanks

 

you can only change the gpu in select models, those come with the mxm slot.

that is a pcie interface, much like the one that you have in your desktop.

you cant put a IVB cpu on a SB system. You can do the contraire though, put a SB cpu in a ivy system.

optimus switches between the dedicated gpu and the integrade gpu, it wont serve you the way you are planning to do. It exists to provide better battery life.

 

Thank you for the reply. I could have been more clear in my previous post, but I did not want to get flagged for posting in the wrong section. I am buying a laptop for school, and I need extremely long battery life. That is why I want Optimus, that is what is is for, and is why I asked how old it is, to see if I could get discount rate on an old laptop, then upgrade it to todays standards.

I am curious exactly what you did think I was going to use it for though, because I can not figure it out haha.

I'm sorry but I'm pretty new to the laptop scene and usually buy AMD over Intel, and don't know all the abbreviations you're using. What is a IVB cpu? What is a SB system? Sandy bridge? By system do you mean motherboard? Sorry for the newbish questions.

One last thing, Optimus is only available on laptops that use Mobile PCI Express Modules? Is that a special variant of discrete laptop cards, or is that just another way to say "standard laptop GPU PCI-e slot?"

In that case, is it safe to assume that ALL computers with a discrete graphics card and a core i5 or higher have Optimus?

 

well lets do this in parts:

Optimus - nvidia solution for switching gpus (only notebooks that have been described with optimus use it)
Enduro - amd solution for switching gpus only notebooks that have been described with enduro use it)

What i understood that you were trying to say optimus will enable you to to physically change the gpu to another more powerful gpu

MXM - physical slot for the pcie connection that most peripherals in pcs use, this is a notebook ''standard''. Those are usually available on only high end gaming systems (MSI G series, alienware m17x m18x, Sager/Clevo NP900 series/ P150/170, I think the samsung gamer 7 uses it as well) and workstation class notebooks, like the HP 8560w or the dell m4600.

gpus in notebooks are commonly soldered to the motherboard, thus dont use the mxm.

IVB - Ivy Bridge
SB - Sandy Bridge

As I said you cant put IVB cpus in a SB system, but the other way can be done.

Optimus has been around 3 years, and has improved greatly, however there are still issues, i.e. the dedicated gpu wont start when gaming, or using another program that it should benefit from the it. Enduro has its issues as well with detection and sometimes diminished performance when its activated.

You have to think of notebooks as a more closed box, thats why i used system. The usual upgrades are RAM and HDD, cpus can be soldered to the motherboard as well in some models.

I do prefer to spend more money on a notebook, since I like to keep them for a long time and they are my primary systems, I do prefer the enterprise class hardware, lenovo thinkpads, HP elitebooks, dell precisions, dell latitudes. Or high end consumer machines like apple MBPs and MBAs, the dell xps and the HP envy... The deal here is that since Im mobile most of my day, I do stress the system in terms of build quality, high end gaming machines also have better than mainstream consumer build quality.

Be prepared to spend around 1k for machines that can keep gaming on reasonable settings (i.e. at least medium on 1080p) for 3 years. And that can last that long without a major break on the chassis. Focus on the support as well, notebook parts cost more than desktop ones.

now that you know all this you should post in the what notebook should I buy subforum here. fill out the faq that is in the stickies.

 

Thanks for the info Mr MM. Since you sound interested, I made a post in the forum you mentioned a few days ago, I'd be happy for you to take a look here http://forum.notebookreview.com/wha...uy/674692-1500-budget-performance-laptop.html and give me your opinions. It is still very unresolved.

Is it that all SB motherboards are incapable of accepting IVB processors? Can they run but with limited functionality (like an AM3 CPU on an AM2 mobo)

Thanks

 

Yes all notebook motherboards are incapable.

Unless someone can figure out a mod that will solve that.

The notebooks wont pass POST, you will get nothing, no limited functionality, nothing at all.

 

Just to add, it might even cost you more to buy an old laptop and change its components to the newer ones as opposed to buying a current-gen one right off the bat, you know. I remember when I changed processors of the same generation (Core 2 Duo T5800 to T9600) I shelled out almost half that laptop's worth. To think I even once planned on upgrading the GPU (another large fraction of the price had I gone through)

 

the biggest tip is to buy the most upgradable one, even at the cost of now having low end components. because it will be worth it, you'll save hundreds in the future.
also you might want to wait for a thunderbolt egpu. it will be a game changer.

 

hardly its worth to buy a fully upgradeable notebook.

the gpu for high end cost around 500-800

The cpu also costs a lot, with little improvement in terms of performance, unless you go dual core to quad

The ram is a non issue for most users

The HDD however is a big thing, to go for a SSD instead of a normal HDD its a huge improvement.

But thunderbolt can indeed make it more useful.

 

Thank you all very much for the replies, every bit of new info is very very useful to me, thank you.

It seems like everybody agrees with you here, good to know. I was almost certain it would save me money, so thanks for the advice! It's hard to imagine an older barebone laptop could cost more than a new one. I don't however need a very high end GPU, I'm not sure if laptop cards cost different than desktop cards, but for comparison the power of a 100-150 dollar desktop card would be plenty in the laptop. Like a 6770 up to a GTX550TI, somewhere in there. Of course, bigger is better if the value is good

What current lines are more upgradeable than others? And what is the thunderbolt egpu? I thought thunderbolt was just a new high speed data port from Intel, maybe I missed out on an article somewhere? Also this is why I wanted a barebone model, so I can avoid having to buy low end parts and replacing them, and instead could just buy the highest end ones (that I can afford) now.

I didn't fully understand your first sentence there, I think I may just be having a slow morning, can you clarify though?
Also I said in my previous posts I would like a small SSD, but not as my only drive. If I were to have an SSD, I would require an HDD backup for all the non speed-critical files, and I'd only keep the programs on the SSD. That MSI dual SSD in raid0 + HDD setup is pretty cool, but I think I'd personally want the SSD drives to copy each other, not be striped, don't you guys think? I am aware that it is unlikely that I will be able to get this feature, I just thought I'd bring it up because it's very cool.

 

I said that there notebooks that you can upgrade basically everything except the mobo, and sometimes even that.

Its usually more worth to spend on something new than to upgrade anything.

CPU - there is a problem called socket and firmware, you cant put a SB cpu in a arrandale system, you cant put a IVB cpu in a SB system, point is moot here unless you buy a dual core, and the cooling system can support more 10w of tdp power.

GPU - mxm gpus are high end. They are going to cost a lot. for 500 you can buy a 7970m which is basically a 7870, for 800 you can buy a 680m which is basically a 670 heavily downclocked. You could buy a cheaper 660m for around 350, but since you probably already have a entry level high end gpu, the change aint worth it since you are just gaining a small boost in performance.

HDD - people hoard. I use a 120gb SSD in 3 partitions. OSX, Data, and win 2008 r2. I do have a server here at home with the other files, like my music collection it stands at 2TB right now of 6TB available.

RAM - 8gb is already more than enough for 3-4 years of use for most people.

RAID 0 is a mess waiting to happen, since you are going to study CS, take a peak on wiki about raid.

Thunderbolt is a useful port, basically its an interface for the pcie lanes that the PCH have. Basically its a pcie 2.0 x4 connection, through a controller that divides that in 2 or channels and an active cable. This has many applications for a high rate, high quality data transfer, from extension pcie cards, like soundcards, high def cams transfering files, dock stations...

thunderbolt egpu is basically the desktop gpu using the thunderbolt connection for it power your games. There are some that are announced, not one really launched. You can search for gaming performance with pcie 2.0 x4, sometimes the difference is 0 for some console ports it can be high.

 

I agree its not really 'cost effective' to buy a fully upgrade-able laptop.
The component prices of CPU and GPU are usually horribly expensive (and unjustifiably so... Intel WAY overprices their cpu's as is... buying a marginally better one for hundreds of $ more is not worth it - especially if there is no big difference in games or computing power... same goes for gpu's.

Apart from that, laptop components are horribly expensive because they go into a portable machine (even though actual manufacturing can be done in abundance that is dirt cheap - for companies of course - which is what they do).

 

indeed, you are usually limited by the cpus that came out with the machine already, so no big plus in there

the gpus sometimes need some mods to work

usually when you need more ram, you need a new pc, this aint windows vista anymore, MS put the minimum ram at now usable levels, and most notebooks now come out with more than 4gb which is plenty for most people

HDD is the only thing that really makes sense to me, people are hoarders.

Basically I look for a good warranty in a notebook, specially with NBD and ACDP, to make things run like they did when the notebook was new.

 

Thanks a lot for the reply. I really appreciate you being thorough, but I don't need a lesson on basic computer internals. I've been building desktops for years. I agree with your view on raid 0 on SSDs, which is why I said that in my previous post. I assure you I do not need to wiki the subject. I've just never needed a laptop until now, and I've stuck to AMD for their pricing, so I haven't spent much timing reading articles on the latest from Intel. I'm not an AMD fanboy by any means though, and I can see that Intel would be the way to go for my laptop. Something to bring up though,
To get back to the subject, I just read that IVB processors are supported on 6-series SB motherboards. Was the article I read wrong? Or are 6 series mobos not used in laptops? All the sockets Intel puts out every year is very confusing. AnandTech - The Intel Ivy Bridge (Core i7 3770K) Review

As far as HDD space goes, if I dual boot it would only be between 7 and Ubuntu, and I keep all my HD movies and music on my 3TB externals on my home network. I will not be hoarding on the laptop, only the essentials.
RAM- I agree, 6GB would be fine for now, 8 in the future will likely do.
GPU- I really don't need a 7970, I think something closer to a 6770 would do. There must be cheap discrete cards from a year ago, right? Or are swappable PCI-e slots new to laptops?
Thunderbolt-I really can't see me needing this on my laptop, it seems like it's just the next generation USB port like Firewire was. I think I'll get by without it.
For the Thunderbolt egpu, is that like the PE4L adapter that lets you use desktop graphics cards externally on laptops? Would that mean that the "e" in egpu is for external?

Thanks again.

Well thats why I was hoping to buy a generation older barebone laptop. I know parts are expensive, but you need to pay for them regardless of what system you buy, right? It seems like I'll be paying for a newer one though, since I want to have Optimus and the IVB for longer battery life. But if there's something older like a Clevo or MSI whitebook that I could get my hands on for 300 less or so, I'd jump at it.

Thanks for the reply

Like I was trying to say, I am looking for a barebone laptop, so I will not be limited to the CPU that came with the machine, because no CPU will have come with the machine. The goal was to buy a 2nd gen laptop and put a 3rd gen CPU into it. You told me that wasn't possible (heartbreaking) but now I've read an article that says it may be after all. But I don't know if series6 mobos are popular in laptops, are they brand new so no cheaper, do they actually support IVB, whats the deal?

I don't think RAM upgrades generally need a new PC. My wife has an AMD Athlon II 3.3GHz dual core, and it would run great, but easily bogged down with multi tasking. I upgraded her RAM from 2 to 4 GB, and it now works great for everything she needs to do now. I think 6 GB will be enough on the laptop.

What kind of modding will it take to get a GPU to work????

And again just to reiterate, I keep my media on externals on my home network, won't need much laptop HDD space.

Thanks a lot for the info and replies, please keep them coming

 

Ram upgrades from 2 to 4 is good upgrade, 4 to 8 not so much.

Most machines right now come already with 6 to 12gb of ram. So when you need more ram, you need a new pc.

Thunderbolt is a pcie connection, so yes you can use a desktop gpu connected to the notebook, to have a portable machine that packs a lot of punch when docked.

The idea behind thunderbolt is to forego most of the connections and give you a extremely portable notebook, that when docked would give you desktop levels of performance. There are techs that would be combined with it, variable TDPs that were introduce in ivy is a relevant part of it. Imagine an ultrabook that when you dock give you the performance of a desktop, thats the idea of future that intel is proposing.

The problem regarding the cpu sockets (both desktop and laptop are the same from previous gen) is that you are looking for an article that is for desktops. Laptops = no deal.

Regarding the gpu, are you saying that the performance level of a 6770 desktop is what you are looking after? the 7970m is a 7870, the 7850 is a 7770.

In terms of performance levels you could be looking for the 670m.

I dont understand, the NP9150 from xoticpc, gives you 7970m for 1500, it can replace your desktop. But hey! I need more monitor space! connect the monitors you already have to the notebook!

Either way, you sell your desktop and get something with more performance still.

 

"When you need more RAM you need a new PC."

Really?

Been smoking the funny stuff, eh?

 

yes seriously, take a 8gb pc, when you need more ram, the more probable scenario would be a 3-4 years time. Time to buy a new one.

8gb is now the most common amount, superseding 4gb, we are entering the age that 12gb and 16gb are also common.

tell me when facebook + music listening + msn would take more than 8gb? and do tell me when it would be for 12gb, and 16gb

 

Sorry, sad argument from you whether 'xx' amount of RAM will last for 'y' amount of time, necessitating the need for a new system.

When I bought my new systems - loaded with 32GB RAM - just because I could use 64GB RAM the next day does that make them obsolete (ie: make me ready to buy a new system...)?

And no, I don't do facebook nor do I listen to music on a notebook nor do I do 'msn' either...

Your statement about RAM is plain wrong - too many other factors to consider (and too late to start trying to bring them up now...).

4GB RAM is good for nothing these days - 8GB RAM (for a whopping $16 more...) is the minimum that Win7x64 will use as efficiently as possible... 16GB is not out of the question and if the price is right; 16GB or more is still within the realistic realm of 'music listening, msn and facebook' - if you want the most responsive and fluid computing experience you can get today.

 

what you use is irrelevant. I could load 128gb of ram with the latest database that im working on, and sincerely more ram would be a god send.

what most people use is relevant (web [facebook, videos, music] + music + word processing + excel...), and for those more than 16gb is a non issue.

when you need that kind of ram size you are going to be needing more cpu power to boot.

For example my sister is a typical user, several tabs open, with instant messaging programs open, and a stock trader platform to throw some spice at, she has a core 2 duo t5600 with 4gb of ram. That is simply all the pc she needs. My father needs even less, he uses a company provided x301 for cad viewing + mail + excel, it does what he needs, his vostro 3450 i5 2430 + 6gb ram is mainly used for web browsing. Thats what people do on pcs, web browsing, entertainment and some productivity work.

Or do you really think that the market is solely based on IT, graphic designers, video editors?

 

Mr MM,

lol... okay - my points are irrelevant and yours are spot on.


My main point is that for the (ridiculously low price), more RAM is preferrable to 'just enough'.

No matter what part of the performance spectrum our workload happens to fall.

I'm sure I could make due with a 512MB netbook (Ahhh!!!) to reply to this forum, but even a netbook (while it can certainly get the job done) is detrimental to this menial task for me (replying to around 1K emails/forums a week...).

And I'm sure that any of your users would notice a smoother computing experience with a min 8GB RAM too (given Win7x64, of course).

 

oh wait it means that me and the mainstream market is entirely wrong and you are right?

companies are still using win xp. Not that I vouch for such, its absent minded at its best. Here is the deal, people use the pc, they dont care if its got windows whatever version, they just use it. They want to install something and that it should work. Simple as that, it doesnt matter that I can run reliable win 7 x64 pro reliably and without issues using 4gb. Most pcs come already with 6-12gb of ram, usually the ones that come with 6gb when you got to the OEM site and buy it, there are free upgrades to 8gb.

8gb is plenty enough for most people. 128gb in the server that I use aint enough. Thus since ram is so cheap, I should put 128gb of ram in every pc that I use? or just 32gb is future proof enough for you?

 

I appreciate the replies, and don't want to get into the middle of this cat fight, but when I need more RAM, I buy more RAM. My CPU can still handle the things I do, but occasionally RAM is a bottleneck, and needs an upgrade. I use Opera, and when I have 500000 tabs open to research laptops, it's not my CPU that's overloaded, it's the RAM alone. So I think when it's time for a RAM upgrade, it's just time for a RAM upgrade, not a whole new computer. Hell with enough RAM, my old Celeron D could suit my net browsing just as well as this machine.