32bit laptop owners to get treated like a third world country

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29924

Microsoft is about to open a can of whoop@ss with this one.

Looks like all the Intel owners get the Starter Edition while the rest of the world and AMD owners will roll with the Full 64bit Edition.

Launch Date for Vista is getting closer and closer and the end of the 32bit era is getting closer and closer. I'd hate to have just bought a new 32bit only laptop.

 

When the equivalent 64bit dual-core laptops from AMD finally emerge, then some people might consider buying one. When Vista finally emerges, people might need to consider buying one.
So, 2007 before we need to worry. Future-proofing? No such concept exists.

 

Haha, the concept is a bit off on the "implied" part. The "Starter Edition" is 32 bit only, meaning you can't install it on 64bit systems. Just because it wasn't 32 or 64 bit wasn't mentioned in any other way, how can you just "imply" all other versions are 64bit only.

All the other versions are 32 and 64 bit. The only things becoming 64bit only in the upcoming future are some select new server system software packages. 32bit will be around for a LONG time given that 95% of the computers out their are still 32bit. 32bit has support even in the Vista R2 replacement, so don't get your panties in a twist.

EDIT: hahahaha, how did I guess this post was made by one of the most bias'd guys on the board towards AMD and 64 bit only.

 

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense... Microsoft would be losing a big chunk of the market as a majority of PC owners still run on 32-bit processors. That's either a misinterpretation by the article writers or a terrible business idea.

 

Its a retarded point of view on behalf of the article writers. MS already has stated the will have full 32bit support on this version of Vista, and the OS that is replacing it.

The ONLY systems that are moving to 64bit only are select server systems, which are almost all 64 bit these days to begin with.

 

Ha, looks like "someone" is about to lose their "job".

 

I would really hope AMD employees are not that bad. But what can you expect from a company that can't even make their own chipsets

 

Im confused, is it safe to go for a 32bit laptop?

 

Completely

 

You seriously need to learn how to READ. The article mentions nothing about the other versions of Vista being exclusively 64bit. 32bit will still be supported.

Please get your facts straight before starting to disillusion people.

And get this, Microsoft will NOT, I repeat NOT, EVER, support a new standard that Intel cannot keep up with. Intel before more than a year from now cannot in any form or way, get a 64bit CPU pumped into the market, and fast enough, to go into full mode 64bit.

That is assuming that Vista comes out at the end of this year ... NO IT IS NOT EXPECTED IN SEPTEMBER.

Finally just imagine if 64bit became the ONLY way to run Vista, overnight. That means businesses and Universities that have 1000's of computers, will probably have to start tossing their old systems out of the windows to get them out fast enough ... and guess what ... THAT WON'T HAPPEN

Stop your 64bit propaganda, it's a shame that AMD has supporters that are disillusioned like you

 

That's a cheap joke

 

Microsoft almost always ensure backward compatibility for some 1~2 generations. That is more or less how it managed to subtle become the monopoly giant it is today.

So fret not. The last time I checked, they are still interested in maintaining this monopoly, so they won't let the 32-bit machine users off the wagon.

 

I just find it funny that the Intel camp essentially downplays and degrades 64bit technology because Intel does not make such as chip yet. I wonder if this will be the case when Intel finally does pump out a 64bit chip? When that does happen, I think all the Intel folk will be saying how these new chips rock and they're best thing the in world because they're from Intel, their dual core and 64bit! Guys, I'd try to keep some perspective, don't knock something your going to be supporting in the near future. G'Head and knock AMD, but don't say that 64bit technology is not important for the next 3 years because Intel's 64bit chip is coming much sooner, and so will your praise for them.

 

ugh... why do I always drag myself into this fruitless debate...? Go AMD! Go Intel! Yeye 32bit! Hooray 64bit!

 

Well sure 64bit and multi processor is the future, the whole point is that it is not such a near future. For example the dual cores from intel are not a must have, but if you are willing to pay extra go ahead. Same with 64bit, it is not a must have.
Point is, any laptop you buy today, that is powerful enough will last you until it becomes too slow to run new software and NOT feature limited (not dual core, or not 64bit)

 

This is the point that I believe everyone misses. The standards do not change so quickly that you'll be wallowing in obselescence tomorrow for a buying decision today. True, there will most definitely be "something better" out there tomorrow, but the gap between "something better" and a necessity is far too wide to matter in most everything in life.

I'm also not a fan of reading anything that's posted on The Inquirer, so there. You know that they've run stories with such titles as, "BABE-raham Lincoln - Was America's Favorite President a Woman in Disguise?"

 

Hell yeah man...

Yes sweetie, its perfectly safe....but...at this point, it'd be a good idea to buy a Core Duo(or some kind of dual core processor)

But then again, i'm biased and think the new core Duo is the best thing sence sliced cheese XD

Hell yah man....thats the spirit! Haha

 

That depends on what you're definition of safe is. The article was pretty straightforward to me so I don't see all the confusion.

All 32bit laptop owners will be able to continue to run Windows XP or purchase Windows Vista Starter Edition and upgrade to that.

All businesses, servers, and 64bit laptop owners will upgrade to their respective Vista 64bit Editions.

Eventually, the 64bit editions will become the mainstream Operating systems of the future as the 32bit computers get older. Also, the 64bit systems running a 64bit OS will significantly outperform their 32bit counterparts running the 32bit Starter Version so all 64bit systems will get a performance boost when thes systems convert from Windows XP to Windows Vista64. In contrast, a 32bit laptop converting to Vista Starter edition may slow down performance so many 32bit users will not upgrade to Vista32 unless they are forced to.

I think businesses will chose to simply purchase new 64bit machines rather than upgrade to Vista Starter Edition as they are already sitting on lot's of older 32bit computers which need replacing anyway. The completion of this transition will not happen overenight, but the longer lifespan and safer computing products are obviously the 64bit variants.

People may have differing opinions of this, but I think the above scenarios are the most accurate of what will occur over the next couple of years.

Also, as much as people love the idea of a 2nd core or 64bit power now, the benefit of both right now is next to none and won't be unlocked unless you are running Vista. I will choose to run Vista 64 so I can get the performance benefit of both at the same time. That's why I will be waiting for the DualCore Turions in a couple of months. That is the holy grail of laptop computing in my mind. Unlike the core duo which is essentially 2 low voltage PIII's merged together, the Turions have an onboard memory controller on each core which means they scale to 2 and 4 cores without hardly any performance loss. Also, unlike the Core duo, they were designed to be multicore and 64bit compatible from the ground up. The chip design is far superior. Alot of people may not like what I have to say because Intel has owned almost 100% of the laptop market until the Turion came out thus most people reading this own Pentiums, but it is the truth.

The PIII was not a bad chip, but the Turion is a far better design and is the only way to get the most out of Microsofts future 64bit operating systems.

Birth of Centrino and Turion
http://voodoopc.blogspot.com/2006/02/turion-64-strong-like-bull.html

I think Lenovo's 64bit laptops may impress alot of people and be very economical too. Someone should keep track of when we can order on. it Should be within days.
http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/feb2006/tc20060223_512286.htm

Here's a battle of the dual cores benchmark tests.
http://shopper.cnet.com/4002-7409_9-6444632.html?tag=fnav
As you can see, AMD's dual cores are best of breed. This is due to their superior more efficient design that is inherent in all of AMD's 64bit chips. We havn't seen this comparison with the Core duos yet, but I expect the results will not be much different. I will post those results when available.

Here's someone else's opinion on the future resale value of all those expensive core duo laptops.
http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/01/32-bit-core-duo-notebooks-will-fully.html

 

qwester: i think the article does, I quote it saying all sytem above will be 64bit:

"The product offerings will aim at dragging 64-bit computing, Media Centre and Tablet PCs into the mainstream.
......
According to the Vole, Vista Ultimate "has it all". That is to say it is the uncut version of the above. The Vista Starter is a 32-bit OS aimed at countries which are likely to be using older PCs. It will be cheaper. This also implies the above are 64-bit systems. "

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29924

 

About the safety, Why core duo is safe? i don´t understand, maybe because i am kind new for that.

I think the Core duo only improves performance, like a new chip would. And for people that don´t do multitask it won´t even make diference.

Now, about 64 bits, i think will be a big deal for people planning to stay with it for more than 2 years. I am a gamer and if i can´t play a game in 2 years, even with low settings, it would suck.

Plus, I think that the 32 bits would suffer a great depreciation in 2-3 years, for someone planing to sell it on ebay or anywhere else.

 

NO PEOPLE. you are just making the article say what it isn't. PLAIN AND SIMPLE ... ALL VISTA VERSIONS ARE 32BIT CAPABLE

The starter edition is not even intended for regular home PCs, it is a stripped down version that runs on yesterdays PCs

 

I 1000% agree with you! If Intel had a 64bit laptop chip today, this entire board of intel-aholics would be chirping daily about how 64bit's is the future........ And they would be right.

If the roles were reversed and AMD had the 32bit chip and Intel had the 64bit chip. I would think that AMD sucks.

 

i disagree. if you take a look back through the forum, you'll see that it's pretty conservative. regardless of cpu speed, ram size, etc., almost all the suggestions point the poster in the direction of "safety"... meaning, for example a suggestion like "you don't need the fastest cpu because you won't really see a gain as the user", etc.

it's not an intel/amd thing or a mac/wintel thing, or anything. it's just the culture of this forum.

 

That is right and "Yesterdays PC's" is translated as "ALL 32bit only PC's". Or "All Intel PC's" since Intel has no 64bit chips in the mainstream.

I also predict that Running Vista, regardless of the version on a 32bit machine will be much slower than just staying on Windows XP. It will not be a popular option and most 32bit users will just stay on XP for as long as they can.

 

Anyway, i will just point something i said in other post:

" I really think that the corporative world is going to do a big push to the 64bit universe, for the pure reason of making profit, as the companies can resell all their products again. Do you think companies are going to stay with the same products?

Now, think about microsoft, why do i need to buy a new office version? the one I have is good, i don´t need to buy a new one just because it has a new small feature that almost noone will ever notice.

So I think that the market and Microsoft are going to push all the consumers to adopt the new system as it is a big chance for profit."

And the article says in one part that microsoft is going to pressure the 64 bit into mainstream.

Not that you can´t use a 32 bits then, but.... you won´t be able to reach everything, and i still want to have this freadom to choose.

 

It's of no use arguing with you, cause you refuse to understand reason. I am just trying to keep you from disillusioning people on these forums

I am not pushing for intel here ... but buying AMD ONLY based on 64bit is utter STUPIDITY

 

I don´t think its stupid...

I think it all depends on what you want and you condition, because we are in transitional phase.

If you are going to change in 2 years, don´t buy amd at all... go for the best performance your budget can.

If you plan to stay more with it, sure you NEED to buy an 64 bit one.

 

If any of you had went back to the original press release inwhich microsoft unveiled its windows Vista you would have read this ver short yet insightfull paragraph:

"All new versions are available for either 32-bit or 64-bit systems, depending on the needs of the customer. Windows Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, Ultimate and Business will be available as a full-packaged product at retail and on new PCs. Windows Vista Enterprise will be offered only to business customers participating in Microsoft’s Software Assurance program."

I think that is convincing enough, don't you

For the sake of completeness, link to the article: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/feb06/02-26WinVistaProductsPR.mspx

 

Vista operating system flavors will all have 32-bit emulation, just as XP64 does now.

Unless you plan on some kind of 64-bit software in the near future, you're just as well going with any Pentium M or Core Duo solution.

If you might keep your laptop over 3 years, you might want to consider 64-bit, but since Vista will be around for at least 4 years, it's really not that big of a concern.

Most software, except that optimized for servers, will continue to be written with 32-bit in mind, with ports to 64-bit. No commercial software aimed at the everyday computer user is going to go exclusively 64-bit for years.

 

Yes... i might be wrong but microsoft didn´t make a move saying that halo (?) the next one will be 64 bit only???

I think MIcrosoft will push it as soon as intel releases its 64bit to notebooks.

I still like the freedom of choice!

 

Why gimp yourself with a 32bit chip that won't take advantage of 64bit computing when everyone knows that eventually, 64bit operating systems will make the 32bit hardware extinct. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen. Like most people, I want my thousands of dollars to last as long as possible.

Also, the Turion beats the Pentium M in benchmarks handily and costs significantly less too.

The core duo is overpriced and only provides a maximum 10% boost over the Pentium M during temporary situations of 100% cpu loads (most of the day the cpu load is around 1-3%). Thus it may not even beat a Turion either. A user can get much more performance by buying a faster HD or 1-2gb's memory.

Buying a 64bit-ready laptop is not only conservative and prudent for the future, it is also the best value based on price vs performance. The main benefit of getting an Intel laptop right now is if you really love the case design of the Vaio or just have to have Toshiba. There are more options and selections of designs to choose from so if your needs are specific and you love this specific Intel style, then get it.

 

You're forgetting that AMD does give the best performance per dollar. And is cheaper too which allows the users to upgrade the memory and HD for even more performance.

Benchmarks.
http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q1/pentiumm-vs-turion64/index.x?pg=13
Costs savings of Turion platform.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article300-page2.html

 

Well based on your argument dual core is a justified option also. After all there are loads of applications that are written for multiple cores today. SO you can benifit now.

So it is more of weighing your needs. High end processing (and if your applications support it) core duo. Linux, and the hope that Vista will show up and run better on 64bit, Turion ... and cost too. Most (ALL AROUND) battery conservation P-M.

So there is no reason to say that anyone picking intel today is doing the wrong decission nor vise versa. All 3 options have their valid positives

 

Qwester, dont forget that the release in june of the 64bit dual from amd might be really astonishing, as it will use DDR2 + lots of new features, and will have a better power consumption, and i THINK it might get very close to life battery from intel centrino.

 

you got ur dates mixed. June is the set date for DDR2 support on desktops.
Turion dual core (with DDR2) is set for November as I mentioned in the other thread. (hopefully by then DDR3)

I know that the Turion dual core is really a CPU to wait for, but it is still early for someone considering to buy now or in the near future

 

NOOOO.... if you check the MSI roadmap (google it) you will see a dual-turion expected for june (MSI 1042).

And don´t you think this is curious: the release of the dual turion will be in taiwan, and MSi (known for first releasing inovations) is based in taiwan tooo....


I think there might be surprises expecting us in june!

 

Maybe they're using the desktop chip?

 

I was just checking around. I might have been worng about the November date. AMD say upto November. But most other sources seem to say no earlier than July (at least) ... So I wonder what MSI's claim is based on.

Releasing a CPU in July, means that it will at least take a month before laptop manufacturers start putting products on the market. So at best, if everything goes to plan, I cannot see Turion X2 happening before the end of summer.

 

easy on the roadmap, guys, it's just a plan, not a solid release schedule. Most roadmaps from any manufacturer are very stretchy, and can include models that won't even be released in certain areas of the globe.

All will depend on the follies of the separate manufacturers like AMD - if they don't come through, the laptop won't come through.

 

Yes.... i sitll hope for a surprise from AMD.

 

Who wants to bet that around the time Napa rolls around, Intel will still have the leading edge. Then it will be the next thing 2-3 years down the road that is argued as a reason not to buy intel present day.

<~~~ Hasn't used AMD since my tbird-XP/house furnace days.

The key issue for me buying a AMD chip off the line today is so many buggy chipsets and buggy reviews of various motherboards. Motherboard for motherboard, AMD based boards have more compatibility and failure reports compared to those with intel based chipsets. What is the exact reason AMD can't produce their own chipsets in house?

 

64-bit, I would like to know why you are so pro-64. Just wondering.

 

A pdf of MSI's laptop roadmap for 2006 briefly leaked to the web recently and in that roadmap it detailed that AM2 socket dual core Turion64 (Taylor) laptops release date as early as May. With other dualcore 64bit Turion models set for June and through the rest of the year.

And yes, this is just a roadmap from one manufacturer so it is always subject to change, but it does hint at a sooner rather than later launch of the 64bit Dual Core Turions. These laptops will also have AMD's newest vitualization technology, DDR2 800mhz support, increased energy efficiency, longer battery life, and of course maintain Turions high floating point capabilities, on-die high speed memory controller and 64bit compatibility. The Turion's high floating point capabilities allow it to truly maximize the high demands of Microsoft's Vista64 operating systems. Lastly, and possible the most compelling, with this AM2 socket from AMD, theoretically, I could buy a dual core Turion laptop from MSI and then a couple of years later, I could simply upgrade the processor to a quad core mobile chip from AMD without having to buy a new laptop.

Never before in the history of computing has one been able to have an upgrade path from 1 to 2 to 4 cores on the same motherboard. That is what is soo exciting about AMD's AM2 socket. Most people are not inclined to swap the proc on their laptops, but it's honestly not too difficult and the ability to upgrade to a quad core mobile chip a couple of years from now would be a HUGE incentive for them to learn.

 

I think we need to get a wrong anwser buzzer. <<;

 

Chaz i am so pro 64 right now because i think it would be more suitable for people who are only going to change their computers in 4 four years or more.

AND i am not being paid for it, you are probably thinking it (i wish i was tough ), it´s just holyday here (carnival, and i am totally bored today, no games, no girlfriend), that´s why i am posting so much!!! hehehe

And i think people coming in this forum should know it. this forum helped me so much.... and i think it would help posting this... making people know other brands (MSI) and about 64 bit....

 

Nobody is taking into account support for Vista, let alone the 64-bit. Especially in a laptop. Finding drivers for a laptop is not nearly as easy as it is for a desktop. Your manufacturer might not even support it and thus you'll have no drivers.

Right now, and for another year, 64-bit is not necessary, and will not be for a few years at least.

Read the quote in my signature, it rings true.

But my real question was for 64-bit, I wanted to know why he is so pro 64.

 

You need to read more articles because you are about half a decade outdated with you're info and beliefs.

The reason Intel makes chipsets is that they have tons of old 200mm fabs and they need them to do something. Further they have attempted time and time again to creat a monopoly on the chipset market where they block others from making Intel compatible chipsets and ensure that Intel makes highest margins off their chipsets.

AMD uses a different philosophy, AMD shares the technology in it's cpu designs to Nvidia, ATI and others so they can make optimized versions of their chipsets. Many years ago, Intel's stranglehold on the chipset market prevented third party chipset manufacturers from making high quality AMD chipsets. This is no longer the case and some of the best chipsets on the Market are made by Nvidia and ATI and run only with AMD cpu's. In today's world Intel's monopoly strategy is working against them because the best chipset companies have defected over to AMD's platform.

http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/02/outdated-intel-technlogy-doesnt-sell.html

My response to Chazman would be why are you and others so steadfastly for 32bit-only platforms when THERE ARE NO NEGATIVES TO CHOOSING A 64BIT SYSTEM TODAY; BUT A WEALTH OF POSITIVES. I could understand the resistance if AMD's 64bit systems were several hundred dollars more, but they are in most cases even cheaper than their 32bit only counter parts and perform better now. With Intel's current laptops, in general you pay more, get slightly better battery life, and more styles to choose from at the sacrifice of lower resale value, reduced life, and significantly lower performance per dollar spent.

Plus, I am actually very excited to run a 64bit operating system and utilize 2 cores at the same time since Vista will utilize both and I want my new laptop to last for as long as possible. I will actually plan to upgrade the laptop I buy this year to 4 cores in 2008 and I can only do that with AMD's new AM2 socket. You gotta admit, that has the possibility of being super cool from a laptop perspective....can you imagine?

 

May I point out that random blogs on the internet aren't the most reliable source of information. <<; Wow pervasive is an over the top word.

 

yeah! Chaz, i am thinking the same thing too...

considering the *glorious* days ahead for 64bit computing, buying a 64bit processor now is kinda silly. a safe estimate would be after 3 years 64 bit computing will be the mainstream. so, some ppl are suggesting me (btw i am jsut an average user, use computer for basic stuffs) to buy a processor what will be useful after several years. aren't we forgetting something like processor speed, by the time 64bit will become main stream computing then processors speed may be well over 6ghz. may be the 64bits processor of present days will be too slow in running those future 64bit programs.

so, in my opinion it's not a smart idea to buy a Laptop just because it has 64bit processor. because after three or four years it's won't be compatible for next generation softwares anyway.