64bit applicatinos on merom

how much improvement will there be for running 64bit programs on merom then yonah?

i am getting a laptop soon, and wondering if the wait for merom is worth it.
Maya 8 was just released wit 64bit capabilities and was wondering if i should wait or not...?

thanks

 

According the the benchmarks, Merom is about 20% faster.

 

yonah is a 32bit cpu so it wont run 64 bit programs

 

As said above, for 32-bit programs, Merom will be 20% (or 15, maybe) faster.
For 64-bit programs, well, Yonah can't do that in the first place...

Merom can, and it might offer a ~10% performance improvement over the 32-bit versions. Maybe more, but often less. Not all the features of 64-bit mode are actually relevant to "common" programs.

 

hm, ok
well im pretty sure rendering would be 64bit...

ive head of windows xp64 too, is that a beta? or its fully released?

 

Fully released. But most applications are still only available in 32-bit versions
By the way, keep in mind that you need to run a 64-bit OS to run 64-bit apps. (And the app has to be an actual 64-bit app. Ordinary 32-bit ones won't magically be able to take advantage of 64-bit)

 

hmm..
my main aim for 64bit is to use maya 8 which was just released which can run at 64bit...

so i must use xp64 to run 64bit applications, ...
is xp64 widely available?

 

Remeber that to get your system working you will need xp64 and then 64bit drivers for all your hardware to work properly.

 

It should be noted that not all programs will run faster in 64-bit vs 32-bit. In fact some can run slower. 64-bit is for math intensive tasks. Also, a 32-bit program will have to be translated on the fly if you turn on 64-bit in Merom and have a 64-bit processor. This can cause a slight performance hit. Bigger is not always better. One more thing about Merom, I highly doubt that a similarly clocked system will be noticebly faster than a Yonah in real world performance. Benchmarks are one thing, what most people actually see is completely different.

 

It's not quite that simple. First, 32-bit apps do not have to be translated in any form or shape. A CPU running in 64-bit mode is still fully capable of running 32-bit code, and do so at full, native speed. Where a bit of overhead *might* creep in is when making system calls to what it believes is a 32-bit OS, but even then, we're talking about 2-3% performance lost, typically.

Meanwhile, 64-bit mode isn't really a very descriptive name. It's bundled with a bunch of other improvements, some of which are useful to every app, some that are, as you say, for math-heavy tasks, and some that are relevant to apps that require a ton of memory.

But even for everyday programs, there are still relevant improvements when running in 64-bit mode. More efficient stack usage and a bigger number of registers available are helpful no matter what your app does or needs.

Tricky question. It has been officially released, but last I checked, it was only sold as OEM packages, that is, bundled with some hardware. Probably easiest to just see if you can find it for sale anywhere. Otherwise, Vista will certainly come in 64-bit versions, so if nothing else, you can use it then.

 

MEROM running in 64 bit mode has a lower performance. So your application is generally faster in 32 bit mode, unless its scientific calculations.

 

Hmm, where'd you see that? Only benchmark I've seen of this was on XBitLabs, and their benchmark suite wasn't exactly the most comprehensive I've seen. So imo, it's too early to really conclude anything.

(And my previous comments were more about the 64-bit architecture in general, than Merom in particular, which, I realize is a bit beside the point when the thread was about Merom in particular)

Performance will typically be *roughly* the same (Merom has a few limitations in 64-bit mode that may lower performance by a few percent, but as I said, 64-bit mode also enables a few other improvements. So performance might be a few percent lower, or a few percent higher, in most *common* apps that don't actually need to process 64-bit data, or access more than 4GB memory. And in the latter cases, 64-bit mode offers a *huge* performance improvement.)

 

thanks for the great replies,
i'm think i'm a bit more confused though

my main thought about getting merom and 64bit is to run maya 8 at 64bit...
i watched this video from microsoft's site, it is a demo of xsi 5 which has 64bit capabilities and the difference between running it on a 32 and 64 bit OS.
the differences are very significant in what you can do...

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/videos/default.mspx(revolutionizing 3-d animation)

what do you mean when you say 64-bit mode?
just when the application can handle 64bit and its running at 64bit?

 

The CPU can run in 64-bit or 32-bit mode, which is pretty much determined by the OS.

Windows XP is only capable of running the CPU in 32-bit mode, so all 64-bit features are disabled.
Windows x64 runs the CPU in 64-bit mode, which means it can execute both 32- and 64-bit code.

And if you say Maya 8 benefits from 64-bit support, then hey, that's a good reason to get a Merom, regardless of everything else.

 

Ok, just to preface I may be wrong. But from what I understand, in order to truly have 64-bit you need three things: 64-bit processor, OS and program. So by saying 64-bit mode, I believe that Merom and all 64-bit processors (or most) actually emulate 32-bit unless they have a 64-bit OS and then any 32-bit apps are translated. Confused more?

For Maya, I would say it probably will benefit from 64-bit a fair amount. Is it worth the extra few weeks of waiting? Probably, although I would not use XP 64-bit as an everyday OS and Vista is still at least 5 months off, so understand you won't get 64-bit goodness until then. Also, check to see if Maya is 64-bit already or has plans to be.

**EDIT** Jalf beat me to it!

 

so maya wont benefit from a 64bit processor on windows xp 32...?

why wouldnt you use xp 64 as your daily OS? will it use more power?

and maya 8 is 64bit already, my relatives are coming at the end of october, so i have time to wait for merom to come out

very helpful information

 

No, 32-bit programs are not emulated or translated when running on Merom, or other 64-bit CPU's. They support 32-bit apps natively, just like they, in 32-bit mode support 16-bit apps (DOS-apps) without any emulation needed.

The OS needs to provide a (very thin and fast) emulation layer to translate system calls. But here we're talking about 2% performance loss, *at the most*

Good question. I know two people who use it as their daily OS. I've used it a fair bit too. The OS itself is fine, rock stable and has no compatibility problems.
The problem is with drivers for non-essential hardware. You'll be able to get drivers for the "internal" hardware, no problem. Motherboard, graphics card, network card and so on will all work without a problem. *Most* printers will work, and some scanners, webcams and digital cameras. But not all, which is where the problem lies. Some hardware manufacturers are just too lazy to write drivers for x64. So if you have any special hardware, check with the manufacturer whether they support x64, at least.

And I have no clue how it all relates to notebooks. They tend to require a fair number of special drivers, and I have absolutely no clue if they are available for x64...

But if you can wait, definitely get a 64-bit CPU. If nothing else, you can run Windows XP until Vista comes out, then grab a 64-bit version of that.

 

hm, thanks... maybe i'll dual-boot xp and xp64...
and i wouldnt have much extra external hardware for my laptop so it should be ok