850 vs 850 PRO

Hi,

I need help. Basically, I have an option to choose between a new 850 EVO 250GB, with receipt and warranty for 90€, or a new 850 PRO 256GB for 100€, taken out from a new laptop, without receipt and warranty..

What would you choose? Thanks.

 

First choice: A ~500GB SSD or larger for any good SSD (warranty or not doesn't matter - if I put my data on it; I'll never give it up without a hammer 'erasing' it anyway - and warranty buffoons frown on the hammer method).

Second choice (by a long shot...) the EVO for just a surfing/light duty drive.

Third choice (by an even longer shot) the OEM 'Pro' for possibly slightly higher sustained performance - but less support to actual end users.


But what you choose should not be primarily based on price or warranty - what will the workload be for this drive? And how much of the capacity needs to be used on a more or less constant basis?

 

500GB is out of my budget, and unnecessary because I constantly move my downloads to a external drive..

You might think warranty is not important but I already got burned once with the famous OCZ Vertex and still have a 150€ paper weight laying around somewhere.. This is why I asked, to know how reliable is the SSD and if losing the warranty is worth it.

Although most of the time the EVO will probably do the job, it would be nice to have the extra speed when needed..

Thanks.

 

Well, what can we tell you? This is a very recent SSD and the reliability is unproven.

'Constantly move downloads'? How much and how often? 500GB is starting to look better for your secret usage case all the time.

Warranty isn't important if you have confidential data on a storage subsystem. What is important is if you have a backup of that data or; you can at least recover that data from the crippled drive.

The extra performance of a larger capacity drive (with or without OP'ing) is more than the difference between the toy-like SSD models you're contemplating.

If the 500GB models are out of your budget currently; I suggest you keep saving instead.

 

So.. This got solved by a price drop from the 850 PRO owner to 80€. Considering it costs 140€ in the cheaper stores and I bought it for almost half price, I'm quite happy to take the risk..

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

I would never touch a drive with TLC nand. I would go for the 850 Pro. But bigger is better as @tilleroftheearth said.

 

If you had read my last post you'd know i did bought the 850 Pro..

Why would you say that without any information attached? 850 EVO is the most sold SSD, and to my knowledge, with extremely positive feedback.. Even recommended by many users in this forum.

 

And Budweiser is probably one of the most sold beers, with lots of positive feedback - it's still terrible beer.


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If you have nothing useful to add, be quiet. Unless you have a actual fact in why is the 850 Evo untouchable.. Who cares about your beer comparisons? Useless flaming post..

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You'll notice that when it comes to SSDs, people have lots of opinions, and while people are happy to recommend all sorts of different graphics cards or RAM depending on your budget and usage, these same people go full retard when it comes to SSDs.

Yes, bigger is better in terms of performance, but when it comes to the average user who performs non-professional tasks, any SSD from any decent brand/model works just fine, and you won't notice an iota of difference in your usual daily tasks.

You'll see people spending a gob-ton of money on the newest 512GB PCIe NVMe M.2 drive, show off the benchmark runs...then continue with their usual daily tasks of watching YouTube and playing GTA V. What a waste of money.

The people who truly do need the extra capacity and performance of large, high-end SSDs know that they need it and don't come here asking about it. For everybody else, recommending they save up to buy the best and largest SSD, when they have no need for that, is irresponsible and bad advice.

That's like recommending everybody buy a GTX 980M SLI setup.

Here's some info on why people "in the know" like to avoid those 840/850 Evo series.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8747/samsung-ssd-850-evo-review
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9196/samsung-releases-second-840-evo-fix

Long story short - they had/have long-term performance issues, which is apparently not found on the Pro series. And people are worried the 850 will have the same issues the 840 had.

Personally, when it comes to non-high-end drives, I like the Crucial MX200 series - great price/performance. The 850 Pro was indeed a good choice there, as the price difference was negligible for a better drive.

 

I read also your last post 850 Evo is a relatively new ssd. I don't want to be a Guinea pig for new products with the famous TLC nand. I have always used ssd's with either Slc/Mlc nand and never regret that. I will continue with that. Safer than sorry. Good sales isn't the same as quality. As said before ; I will never touch ssd's with Tlc nand. If you have other opinions on that; That's fine.

 

It wasn't really a useless flaming post, it illustrated a point - just because something is popular, doesn't mean it's good.

When it comes to the Evo series, they get lots of recommendations from people who don't know any better, because it takes time for their performance to degrade, and unless you test on a regular basis, you may not realize the performance has gone down. As it slowly gets worse, you get accustomed to the inferior performance, so you don't notice it.

 

Thank you for this. I'm glad I choose the Pro instead.
I do agree with you about that "bigger is better" mentality regarding SSDs, truth be told (and I've said it before), I probably won't use the Pro performance most of the time, although I'm glad to know I won't suffer long term like i would with the Evo..

All I wanted was some information in why not. I don't know much about MLC or TLC, but the Pro is only a month older that the Evo, so they're both relatively new..

Thanks.

 

If you had read about nand technology you maybe understand why people are skeptical about TLC nand. It's a lot of info about this topic on the web.

 

Will read about it later, but my SSD has just and I'm overly exited and eager to dismantle the laptop and go hands on, installing linux in my new drive..

 

Are there documented cases of the 850 Evo having the same long-term performance issues as the 840 Evo? I wouldn't buy an 840 Evo due to the issues they had, but thus far I haven't read about that happening with the 850 Evo. And while I do generally go with the sentiment of it being safer to go with the company whose products have been reliable longer, I'd like to see some cases of the 850 Evo having similar issues before ruling it out. As-is, I'm considering getting an 850 Evo to replace the HDD in my newer laptop.

 

I don't think I've heard anything about the 850 series suffering from the same problem as the 840. And they've been out long enough for this to have been noticed by now.

I personally picked up a 250GB 850 Evo during the Black Friday sales event, was super cheap (like $50 off). It's just fine for my needs.

 

I bought a 250GB 850 Evo this morning for my HTPC. I searched NBR and the general Internet to see if there were problems with it a la 840 Evo, and didn't find any reports; only positive thoughts and reviews. At the moment, it appears to be an excellent value. The 850 Pro at the same capacity is almost twice as expensive, which I couldn't justify.

Charles

 

Yeah, I got mine for around $90 CAD ($70 USD), which is a very good price around here. A 250GB SSD is usually around the $120-$130 CAD mark.

 

It's rice based while others are either barley or wheat based but I like Budweiser.

 

C$90 was as lowest I've seen the 250gb EVO go for.

But the 256gb 850-Pro was just Cdn$129 (US$92) on Dec 26-31 at a few stores so I picked up four. I think that having MLC in the Pro instead of TLC is worth the extra

I also picked up two 240gb Sandisk ExtremePro for just Cdn$119 (US$85) later on Dec 31, as Tom's Hardware review ranks the Sandisk Extreme Pro as the #1 SSD for 2015 (ahead of 850 PRO), because the Sandisk is proven to NOT suffer any performance degradation after long highly-intense use like samsung does.
But alas no encryption on the Sandisk.

 

Got my 960GB Sandisk Extreme Pro SSD.. Can't wait to get it up and running @tilleroftheearth , @Phoenix ...

 

I've actually found the 480GB Extreme Pro on sale on Amazon, and I have a $100 Amazon gift card, so I may end up picking it up.

 

The 480GB version was not worth it IMO so went for 960GB... Want that size lol .. Anyways happy to see another brother in the Sandisk click

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For me its the opposite - the 960GB is not worth the price tag, since I have no need for that much storage. With this sale, the SanDisk is about $40 more than the Samsung 850 Evo, at which point I can totally justify spending the extra money on it. Usually, you're looking at $100+ extra for the SanDisk, which isn't worth it for me, given my light usage.

 

Fair enough

 

I've got the Samsung EVO 850 500GB in my Lenovo laptop and it has been great. I just got another one for my Samsung laptop too. I like Samsung products.

 

I don't mind Samsung products but I'll stay away from their TLC junk SSDs..

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No need for putdowns

Most reviews rate the EVO 850 SSD very highly. I have two of them & extremely happy with them.

 

Not a putdown; fact.

TLC; causing misery since the original 840 was introduced almost 3 years ago now.

See:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1507897/...-written-data-in-the-drive/3120#post_24765229

 

WRONG!!! Not a fact, Google reviews for Samsung EVO 850 500GB SSD.
First hand experince on my part, the two I have are very fast with anything I throw at them, (ado be CS5 etc).

 

We're not talking about the 850 models with 3D VNand.

TLC suck period, fact, end of story.

Try to keep up with the conversation, eh?

 

The title is:
850 vs 850 PRO
I have the 850 and was talking about that.
Not end of story and it's only YOUR opinion not everyone's.

 

The title of the thread is not what the last bit of conversation was about. Have a coffee and clear the cobwebs out of your head.

See the relevant posts below and try to cool your jets, okay?

Post#28, Post29, Post30...

 

@tilleroftheearth : While it is blatently clear that you would not contemplate using a Samsung EVO SSD, there are plenty of people out there who like the overall performance benefit SSDs but their workloads are not so demanding that the drawbacks (whether real or hypothetical) of the TLC memory will become evident.

For me, the benchmark of bad SSD performance is the Sandisk U100. My 840 EVO SSD hasn't demonstrated the U100's ability to cause a computer to temporarily freeze.

John

 

No John, you are mistaken.

I do not speak without direct experience.

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/1tb-evo-with-samsung-magician-4-6-f-w-update-results.775351/

I still have a few of those drives today... and this is why;

To be fair, Samsung issued a fix for the 840 EVO's that 'works' as a bare minimum. But the same issue with the Samsung 840 has been simply ignored by them.

I am not simply 'bashing' Samsung without good reason. I am warning people of all TLC nand junk. And as mentioned in a link; the original Samsung 840 (the first TLC drive...) has still not been issued a fix for the issues surrounding the 840 EVO (which, after a few firmware attempts seems to be fixed in the 'good enough' category, I'll admit).

I can't find my original post right now where I outline my experience with that first 1TB EVO of the batch I had bought (kept the others in their packages until I thought my testing was complete), but the first quote in this post says it all. This isn't an inconsequential complaint from an ex-customer from Samsung trying to make them look bad.

This is the state of TLC nand before 3D vNand was introduced. Not that the latest generation of vNand is trouble free either (disclaimer; no direct experience myself with 850 EVO's).

Take care.

 

@ tilleroftheearth
Like I said in earlier posts of mine, not everyone has bad luck like you have with 840 EVO
However my posts were on the Samsung 850 EVO and I had no problems with two of them, so don't lump that into the "bad" stuff. Besides, you said yourself:
(disclaimer; no direct experience myself with 850 EVO's).
I do pretty heavy stuff on my laptop such as Adobe CS6 & Video editing for 4-6 hours a day and never had a problem. AND if you google the top SSD's for 2015, plenty came up as #1 for Samsung EVO 850 such as this:
http://heavy.com/tech/2015/03/top-best-ssd-drives-solid-state-hard-drive-laptop-samsung/
So, I'm a big fan of Samsung 850 EVO series. I won't argue about the 840 series as I have no experience with that one, but I do with the 850 series. Like cars, TV's and other things, every once in a while, even the best of them get a lemon, but that doesn't make the brand "bad".

Also, the title of this thread is 850 vs 850 PRO so why is the discussion of the 840 even in here???

 

Please cool down this discussion and accept that different people have had different experiences which have influenced their different viewpoints.

John

 

Sure John... I've said all I will say in this thread...and the other SSD threads.
I've made my points. I'm done. I'll go back to the laptop forums.

 

Ya 3d vn and can be mlc and tlc

There are very few tlc ssds even for sale as new on the market now.

One is the SanDisk ultra ii heavily discounted. So he writes in this weird viewpoint on the ssds from 2 years ago.

The 850 an d 850 pro are tlc and mlc :vnand
With slc buffer and the fastest things out there are Samsung.


Again and again talking about stuff from years ago in this thread where the audience is on the wavelength of what is for sale new

 

Samsung 850 is selling well with nothing but great experience

Samsung 850 pro is the best you can get.

 

You are 100% sure Samsung 850 Evo will never experience similar to its predecessor or maybe other problems? Not everyone takes such a risk. Samsung has lost credibility among many computer users. There is a justified skepticism towards new Evo 850.

 

Very few TLC models on sale because it is known junk.

Samsung has never been about fast (or responsive) SSD's. All it offers are technical truths (yeah; artificial BM's with high 'scores' that can be replicated easily by the online rags), yet in real world use? A huge letdown.

See:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-recommendation-benchmark,3269.html

The 'old stuff' I talk about is the stuff I know about after having tested whatever new SSD might come down the pike... and that 'old stuff' still gives the best performance you can buy today.

You, on the other hand? Believe the marketing fluff from Samsung. Go ahead. Enjoy.

But the quote from the link above says it all:

There is a reason why they still pick this 'old' SSD as the top performer in November 2015. And choose the 850 Pro as a 'close second'. Sustained performance over time.

Do some reading and educate yourself on what is really important about SSD's and what makes them tick. Samsung SSD's are a far cry from that reality. Even if their marketing dep't works overtime to continually woo the ones that just want to be told what is best for them. Instead of doing a little work themselves and finding that out firsthand.

You might want to re-read my previous posts in this thread. Everything is there that you need to know.

Unless of course, you already know it all.

 

I'm still happy with Samsung 850 Pro. Will bring it over to my new laptop. There's not really much else that is out there now, as is so much better. I dont need spend money on a new 2.5 "SSD .

 

The 850 pro is 3d vnand Mlc with slc buffer the largest in the market.
SanDisk has something similar with a smaller slc buffer.

The big difference is the 850 pro is already 2 tb and the extreme pro with planar mlc is not getting any bigger.
Its the end of the line for that whole concept.

The 850 pro is not only rated as the longest lasting one it won the endurance test.
This year it will come out with a 4tb version while planar ssds will.... Not be getting any larger.

You could still make one fast. There could be a 1.5 tb planar ssd made

 

I mean to say planar tic.

None in the sizes I'm interested in except SanDisk ultra ii.

The 3d nand tlc. Will be every single ssd within a short while these other types we are using now are antiques already.

I did just buy 2 mlc planar ssds over 3d vnand tlc because they are the same size and cost right at this small window of time but it's essentially over now


Whata weird about your bad advice here in the forum is you are trying to say mlc is the way to go and 3d vnand tlc is a bad idea.... I'm not sure why.

But all the ssds fron here will be 3vnand tlc.

There is no mlc planar future. The shrinking of the die sizes will never catch up from here

You can prefer it all you want from sentimental value but by the end of the year 3d tlc ssds will be 8 Times the size .

 

Samsung wins the speed tests because they have a larger slc cache. It is less important in other uses.