I'd LOVE to see Llano in an attractive Acer or ASUS frame. If there was a TimelineX with a 400SP IGP and 6770, I'd buy it in a second.
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chewietobbacca Notebook Evangelist
There are plenty of PC gamers - people are in a rage because high-end gaming has gone downhill due to consoles, but consoles have also pushed a lot more mainstream games to PC's.
You guys are seriously underselling how many people use GPUs out there, and how many *would* play on a notebook if they had the right equipment.
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I think some here are underestimating the IGP in Sandy Bridge. You can play WoW, Sims and a whole bunch of other games with it. Sure you can`t play them on high details though. But it is good enough for casual gaming
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The people who use GPU's are mainly on consoles, and the other elite pc gamer niche are on desktops. That's a minority compared to how many laptops are sold every year. -
I don't know about you but I use my laptops (4 atm) for all purposes but especially gaming. Laptops are cheap and disposable to me at 700-1000 a pop.
I guess this stems from the $4,000 business computer that I had back in 94. In any case laptops are cheap to run portable and will do just about everything most people need. At the university where I work we all game on laptops and you don't have to spend an arm and a leg.
The upcoming llano series will give us a relatively cheap computer that you can game on as well as work. I would gladly pickup AMD's highest offering paired with a 6770m for less then a grand.
Npc5 -
One other thing, I have replaced all of our desktops at home with laptops of both AMD and intel flavors. The fact that they use far less power then the equivalent number of desktops makes them attractive.
AMD may not have the most powerful processors by far, but I play Black Ops, Dirt 2, Shogun II with no problems on my N930 paired with a 5650m. Comfort isn't a problem, I just use an external keyboard and mouse with a 23 inch monitor.
So if AMD can keep the cost down, then alot of people will buy the llano series.
Npc1978 -
Good for you, most laptop buyers don't give a crap about Black Ops, Dirt 2, or Shogun on the PC. They care about price and that's the only way AMD can compete.
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Shogun II on a Llano? Sign me up! If they can fit it in a nice 13.3 format like Toshiba's 835 protege, even better. Almost jumped on that HP DMz1, but i figured i might as well wait for Llano and get something with more oomph. And a USB 3.0 slot.
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abaddon4180 Notebook Virtuoso
I think we can all agree that Llano is going to offer much worse CPU power than SB but much better graphics and similar battery life at a lower price, right?
So what is the arguing in this topic even about? -
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2. I believe 400SP Llano's have about 2-2.5X SB graphics performance. There are also 240SP parts, which should be closer to SB.
Everything else you said is correct. The argument is about whether mass market needs anything more than SB graphics performance, and my answer to that is a resounding no. -
I think your mistaken. There are some people who have a need for speed half the time, and a need for power the rest of the time, like me. This is why I have an M11x. But if there is an IGP that can provide good battery life, power, without the problem of Optimus, and possibly, with a 6770M, reach the levels of a 5850 or so, then I think that will appeal to ALOT of people.
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But then again we can argue that while people don't need powerful graphics, they don't need that powerful a CPU either. The fact that the netbook market thrives shows that even Atom-class CPUs, as poor as they are, suffice to a large portion of users.
Therefore, the only thing AMD need to secure is battery life and price. Performance wise only a fraction of users need powerful and they'll go Intel either way so AMD just needs to start competing on the other [larger] fraction of people who just want the cheapest computer possible that can still do what they want.
The problem is getting the units out there. Zacate was good compared to the Atom platform but it wasn't cheap and it wasn't as widespread as the Atom which in the end didn't help all that well. -
abaddon4180 Notebook Virtuoso
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Hey, I agree with you that most people don't need more than Llano CPU performance either. However, as SSD's become more common, general Windows responsiveness increases with CPU, at least that's what I noticed when I went from a C2D to SB. However, we're a long way away from SSD's becoming commonplace.
I still think that people who need a more powerful CPU outnumber the people who need a more powerful GPU, but that doesn't matter, since both pale in comparison to the number of people who just want a cheap laptop like Melody saidThat's where AMD is going to compete, I still think hardcore gamers will still prefer a proper GPU and a SB CPU.
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Brazos/Zacate uses the same 40nm bulk silicon that GPU use not the 32nm HKMG SOI that Llano will use. Bobcat's efficiency comes from the arch Llano's will come from the process and whatever tweeks AMD made to the arch to get it onto the new silicon.
Trinity will bring some of Bobcat's efficiencies to Llano's silicon along with Bulldozer's performance increase. -
Here is an interesting set of slides. The claim made in the slides is that they get better battery life than Sandy Bridge (by a lot, roughly 50% or so). If this is the case, then I think Llano will be a big success.
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abaddon4180 Notebook Virtuoso
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If a Quad core can get 3.5 hours more battery life than a Dual core from Intel, then it is a great achievement. I am a bit suspecious against tests and claims from themselves though. I`ve seen enough manipulation and skewed reviews from Intel about various products, so I want to see it with my own eyes first.
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It's not so much the quad-core that is puzzling as the 400 stream processors. And yes, I'll believe it when I see it... but even if they only deliver something roughly equal to Sandy Bridge in battery life, that will still be a big deal. Most people won't notice the relatively weak CPU or the relatively strong integrated GPU, but battery life is very obvious even to the most casual consumer.
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Wait a bit here. I read the little line under the battery life graph It says:
Second of all, it doesn`t matter if it had 1000 stream processors. Most new CPUs today, C2D etc, have technology that shuts off and downclock when idling. So these stream processors are not in use at all.
Third, does it really matter to anyone how much battery life you can get out of a CPU when it is not in use? -
abaddon4180 Notebook Virtuoso
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Looking at the slides again, to some extent it is obvious marketing drivel aimed at people in finance who are only vaguely familiar with the technology they're dealing with. However, the claim about battery life is big enough to absorb the inevitable clash with reality. That is, even if it turns out that "idle" means "turn WiFi off and don't touch the notebook" and the real battery life (i.e. the one you get when browsing the web) is actually 7-8 hours, that will still be a lot more than most people expected from Llano. -
From those slides mentioned above , that dual graphics option intrigues me. Could you have a dual graphics option on an intel laptop at the same price point?
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If they're making that claim, they have indeed mastered the art of clock gating and idling transistors. Still, when at moderate to full load, K10.5 has no chance against SB in Flops/Watt because it's the same old architecture.
The claims of more battery life than SB are most likely either using different size batteries or idling the discrete GPU on the intel chip or something like that. My friend's Portege R705 with an i3 gets 10 hours at idle, so it's a good thing now they can idle all day, as you can see from my friend, most people with Intel CPU's also idle them all day -
LOL forget about using it. Idle battle is all that matters.
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abaddon4180 Notebook Virtuoso
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abaddon4180 Notebook Virtuoso
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Wow. This anandtech thread could use the services of an Intel fanboy or two.
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Furthermore, even at full load the power profile on those 400SPU should be below 15W given that the discrete counterpart to Llano's IGP is rated at 15-19W on 40nm bulk and these APU are 32nm HKMG SOI.
In the end though, what needs be recognized, is that someone who finds themselves stressing Llano's IGP to draw max power is obviously one of those people that needs more GPU power than Sandy Bridge's IGP can offer and are therefore benefiting from Llano's more powerful IGP.
One final side note....moving forward AMD plans to introduce full power gating to all of their GPU with the goal that entire blocks of stream processors can be shut down and draw almost no power at idle just like CPU cores. -
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AMD's mobile 28nm won't be launched until CES 2012 and probably won't be for sale until March'ish 2012.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/gam...28nm-mobilty-hd7000-series-coming-2012-a.html -
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abaddon4180 Notebook Virtuoso
We aren't even talking about performance per watt, we are just talking about power consumption when idle which has nothing to do with performance.
We can argue back and forth all day, though. Right now we just don't know and we will have to wait and see. -
Anybody have any ideas on when Toshiba and HP are going to start pushing out the Llano laptops? Do they they usually give people a heads up a bit before they put these things out or do they just sort of dump them out there with no warning?
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About that 15W power draw: I found a more reliable review from Anandtech that found some different result. With a laptop with 2820QM and without discrete GPU, it drew 9.04W on DC mode (on battery) when idling. When you watched a movie H.264, the total power consumption of the system was 16.38W in DC mode. That is 7.34 W. That involves the screen, the HDD, the CPU, the IGP, everything. I still think it is very difficult to beat that by much.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4084/intels-sandy-bridge-upheaval-in-the-mobile-landscape/10
So if AMD found a way to increase battery life in idle, great. But I don`t think we are there yet where you get much better results when you are using the laptop other than what Intel have come up with yet. -
Notebooks with Llano will just start showing up in the next couple of weeks. Computex would be the most likley place to end any NDA and notebooks are likely all ready to start shipping. -
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abaddon4180 Notebook Virtuoso
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Looks like AMD crafted a winner with its Zacate Fusion processors: AMD ships five million Fusion chips, says it's sold out -- Engadget
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Tsunade_Hime such bacon. wow
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that's great news
now i just need a tablet with a fusion processor and i'll do my effort to suport AMD -
Lenovo X120 tablet with the E450 would do perfectly. I'd get that in a heart beat.
How do the current Atoms that just came out compare to the Pentium M and Fusion?
AMD Fusion Info Thread
Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Jayayess1190, Aug 1, 2010.