AMD Fusion Info Thread

Don't think this has been posted yet.

AMD Expects Fusion "Llano" to Offer Three Times Higher Graphics Performance than Core i "Sandy Bridge" - X-bit labs

First Shots of AMD Llano, Socket FM1 in the Wild

 

I have to be honest... I expected more than 3x. That only puts it at something like 1.5x as fast as the 6490M, and to make matters worse, the SB graphics they compared to was HD Graphics 2000. Compared to 3000, it's only like 2-2.5x faster...

 

Did you see the score? It scores higher than my ATI Radeon Mobility 4650... by about 50%. That is more than for which I asked.

 

I wonder how the battery life is and how hot this may run.

Now if they can only give us a business tablet with this cpu at a lower price the intel models I will be set, even if it comes with a 5 hour battery life(on the standard battery?).

 

So they made an integrated gpu which is essentially on par with mid-range gpu's of the previous generation?
Uhm... I do not think that is the case, because that would make Liano's integrated graphics virtually on par with 5650 if I'm not mistaken.

I think one has to keep in mind that the benchmarks may not give us an accurate picture here when compared to real-world gaming for example.

 

Integrated graphics on par with the 5650 is good enough for me, especially if paired with a 6770 or something of the sort.

 

Oh I'm hardly complaining (if they brought the integrated gpu to the level of a 5650 that is)... it's just that it's a tad difficult to accept such a relatively large jump in integrated gpu capabilities when all of the previous incarnations of IGP's (and their successors) were in fact very weak.

I mean, from a technological point of view, this is effectively nothing to sneeze at.
I'm merely surprised they would go for such a big jump in performance in an IGP all of a sudden.

Plus, we cannot forget the CPU.
If they pair such a powerful IGP with a pitiful CPU, then you will likely reach a bottleneck.
I for example would prefer that the new cpu's experience a similar jump in performance and are comparable to Intel's offerings because I work in 3ds Max... so I'd appreciate such a 'powerful' combo.

 

True, but... the article lists a 3dmark Vantage of P3335. Notebookcheck lists the ATI Radeon Mobility 5650 as a little bit lower. Considering that this is a desktop part, in the article, it is probably at higher clock than the mobile part will be. But it does fit with the earlier statements/rumors that the higher-end Llano parts will have 400SP, on par with a 5650. Though it is important to note they'll probably be at lower clocks (rumors say not too much lower) and will not have dedicated memory compared to the Radeon Mobility HD 5650.

By the way, the process is a GlobalFoundries' 32nm HKMG, which compared to the 40nm process used in most current GPUs is more dense and power efficient (beyond just a normal die shrink). So, with lower clocks and no dedicated memory I have a strong feeling the GPU, itself, will not draw too much power. Personally, I wouldn't call a quad-core Athlon II "pitiful". No less the dieshrunk version used in Llano, but that is just me. And the entire "strong IGP" is the entire point of AMD's acquisition of ATI.

 

Couple questions:

1. When are Llano equipped notebooks going to go on sale?

2. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Athlon II was essentially on par with the last generation Core 2 Duos, correct?

3. What battery life can we expect? 6 realistic hours with a 6-cell in a 13 inch portable?

 

Shouldn't be so hard to believe... the desktop high end Llano GPUs rock 400SP's placing it at desktop 5570 / mobility 5650 levels. I know its "just" an IGP but it's got a different purpose too - they're trying to integrate as much of their GPU tech into the CPU. Think about how small Zacate is and it's got essentially a desktop 5450 in it... now think about how much bigger Llano is and what it can fit. A mobility 5650 isn't out of the realm of possibility, especially since these are coming out in 32nm

These would make great HTPC chips too

1. They're shipping this month, so I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some unveilings in the next month or two, with Computex in June a likely time to see a lot of produts unveiled

2. More or less, it really depends on what benches you look at. They've come a long way since release, that's for sure

3. No clue, depends on what they're rated at

 

1. Late May-early June at the earliest, imo.

2. Clock-for-clock I think Athlon II was around 10% slower than C2D but a couple of early leaked benchmarks for Llano, not sure if they are legit or not, show it to be about 15% faster than Athlon II, clock-for-clock.

3. Hopefully.

 

Do we know if this cpu will be used in 12-13in tablet device, or is that reserved for something else?

 

You mean similar to HP tm2? In that case, possibly.

 

Well the TM2 is intel based with AMD gpu, but I had the Fujitsu tablets in mind when I made that statement and the Asus EP121.

 

I didn't compare the scores to others like I should have. I withdraw my previous opinion. It's pretty good!

 

Ontario to be refreshed with Turbo Core

So possibly Zacate too?

 

I think I mentioned it in the thread already, the upcoming E-450 will have Turbo Core.

 

Any idea on when these boards are meant to be coming out? I have a HTPC I'm dying to finish up

 

Is there a particular reason you want a Llano in your HTPC?

 

Not Llano, Zacate....and it's excellent for HTPC because it's cheap. low power, and you can leave the APU passively cooled so the system is low noise.

Zacate also makes for a decent basic level home file server.

 

You're right, I was originally thinking of making the HTPC play some indie games and so on, but I might as well just dock my notebook via HDMI to it, considering my HTPC is only going to have a 32GB SSD on it (the rest of my media is streamed), meaning there won't be much point in gaming on the thing anyways

 

Llano expected to be "widely available" this quarter

AMD Llano Systems Set to Be Widely Available This Quarter - AMD - X-bit labs

 

Llano to be officially announced in June

Lllano IGP is HD6550...or HD6690 in Hybrid Crossfire

 

wow, how do they put a 6690 as an IGP?

 

They don't. The IGP is the 6550, the 6690 is this IGP combined with a 6670.

 

Is there any info on how the A8-3510MX will compare to the core i7 2630QM/2720QM (other than the video )? Would be interesting to see how AMD holds up when it's mainly CPU(-part) that is being pushed.

And also, what range of gpu's can we expect it to be coupled with?

 

Thing to keep in consideration is that the article is referring to desktop model numbers, and a desktop 6690 would be a mobile 6790M, while a mobile 6690M would be a desktop 6590.

 

Right, that's why I left off the "M"s. What they're saying is:

Desktop 6550 (Desktop Llano's IGP) + Desktop 6670 ~= Desktop 6690

They haven't said anything about the mobile components, but those are usually less powerful since they need to fit into a 35W TDP rather than 65W+.

 

The mobile Llano are rumored to cap out at just under 60W for the high end APU, which gives them a lot of headroom for an IGP that is essentially the 15-19W Mob. HD5650, with a die shrink from 40nm to 32nm, and on improved silicon.

 

Where did you hear this? I thought they were going for around 35W.

 

The comparison video showed it about at 50-60W max, iirc

 

Sure, but that's the power usage of the entire laptop, not just the APU.

 

The TDP range for the Llano APU were some of the earliest rumors we heard about and there's a link to the source in the first post of this thread.

35W to 59W for the high end duals, triples, and quads; 30W for mainstream duals; and 20W for the low voltage APU.

 

Will we see triple core Llano in notebooks or is that only for desktop machines?

 

I dont see why they wouldnt? they already have mobile triple core phenoms. Plus, stuff which doesnt pass validation as quad cores can be sold as triples or duals.

 

I don't think I have seen a triple core notebook before. I would think a triple core, in terms of heat and power usage would be between dual and quad core?

The idea of a triple or quad core tablet does sound enticing.

 

I hope they put some models of Llano in 12-13" laptops, they'd be an instant buy for me.

 

More leaked Llano and Bulldozer info from DonanimHaber.

 

So what is the deal with these Llano APUs? Weaker in processing power than Sandy Bridge but feature a much better GPU? So it is only useful for people with IGP and a pass for those with discrete graphics?

 

Yes, that's basically it: a much worse CPU, but a much better GPU. The only caveat is that the AMD IGP can work together with discreet AMD GPUs for slightly better performace ("hybrid CrossFire"). The performance increase will not be linear because the IGP is limited by having to use system RAM, but it should still be better than the discreet card by itself.

 

I read in xbit lab that in the long run the cpu part should be improved too. As it stand AMD offering is a little lower that intel when the CPU part is considered on its own. here I am comparing processing units with integrated IGPs.

 

Haven't I read that in the case of APU's (AMD fusion) the gpu will effectively help out the cpu in computational department and not just be better at graphical stuff?

Seriously, if that doesn't happen, then I don't see the point of getting it unless you won't be needing the cpu for computational heavy tasks (which is exactly what I do).
Or will the software have to be written to take advantage of the gpu helping the cpu or will that be an automatic feature?

 

I think you misunderstood. The "APU" is just a GPU and a CPU on the same die. With a few rare exceptions (most of them are what you refer to as "graphical stuff") the GPU cannot significantly help the CPU -- this is simply Amdahl's law in action. GPUs are great at massively parallel tasks, but much slower than CPUs at tasks with only a single thread. Even if the software was compiled for GPUs, you would still be limited by the CPU (and for the most part, it is not compiled that way because there is little benefit).

The commonly used exceptions are things like gaming and video (e.g. Flash) and a few of these tasks are in fact GPU-accelerated, but you don't need Fusion for this -- discreet GPUs work just as well or better -- and for everything other than modern AAA games, you don't even need a powerful GPU (Sandy Bridge is overkill). There do exist a few professional applications that can use GPUs, but if you were using them, you'd probably know it.

So no, it probably won't help you with your computational tasks. You would be much better served by Intel's offerings (Sandy or Ivy Bridge, depending on when you want to buy) and possibly a discreet GPU if you want to play games.

 

Yeah i`d much rather have a fast CPU because i use discrete GPUs anyway. The Intel HD 3000 is more than capable of doing the light stuff we need IGP for anyway, and if i need more graphical power i rather use my discrete instead.

I`d buy Llamo if the CPU was as good as SB and featured a IGP that would let me play all games on high details. But nice that AMD have an alternative to Intel`s solution. Competition is always good

 

AMD Fusion, dirt cheap gaming notebooks.
Do want a 12 to 13 inch with a AMD Liano badboy inside.

 

Right now the areas where GPU will assist the CPU in processing are limited but the plan for awhile has been to expand where software developers can take advantage of the GPU. No one is really denying that there are many things that can be done in computing with a GPU besides drawing pixels, but what's been holding GPGPU up is before software developers will bother writing code to split the work between CPU and GPU, the hardware to run it has to be out there in general use....and the companies that make the hardware have to agree on a standard API for those programs to be based on. Fortunately for AMD most of the hardware makers are now backing OpenCL, including Intel and ARM.


AMD takes a major step in enabling GPGPU coding | SemiAccurate

AMD Fusion Developer Summit links | SemiAccurate

Why OpenCL will be on Every Smartphone in 2014

 

Probably gonna see more stuff using DirectCompute as well, now that Microsoft is targeting ARM platform with Windows 8.

 

Same for me. I rarely do anything CPU intensive on the go, I have a desktop for that, but I like to play games away from home. I also like not paying very much.

 

Nobody likes paying very much, but the problem is, you usually get what you pay for. Even if the cheap APU is a good deal because you don't mind the CPU, its most likely fate is to wind up in some piece of junk chassis attached to an atrocious 1366x768 display and having a lousy keyboard. This happens much more rarely with expensive parts like the 2720QM (still more often than I'd like to see, but certainly not as much).

 

You do make a valid point Althernai, but I am hoping that this changes. Just look a the Fusion Zacate chip and some of the machines you can get it on like Lenovo X120e, and Sony Vaio Yb, which are much better than their Atom competitors(spec, and build wise), and I am hoping this could start becoming a trend.