AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

Which APU did you configure? What are the parameters of the thermal issues? Gaming only? Specific apps or general use?

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptop...es/ThinkPad-A485/p/20MUCTO1WWENUS0/customize?

Looks like a nice laptop.

 

Yeah OEM are adding AMD to their lineup because of Intel shortages.

 

That is only one of the reasons. It is never just the one issue unless it is a mission critical one like the company no longer can supply any CPU's. To think otherwise is severely short sighted.

I think AMD though should have waited to see how things work out with the release of the 3000 series. Just change the road map to Q4 2019 as tentative to demand of the 3000 series. But at least they should place the road map and definitively say Q2 2020 or whatever.

 

I have a 2500u. It's a nice laptop outside of running hot even just doing office applications. Gaming is out of the question because it down clocks like mad.

 

I have the Huawei and I can not say for gaming but office apps do not seem to cause thermal issues. It is a 2500u as well.

 

Yeah it's not really thermal issues but the fan is on consistently (cpu is at 40-50C) doing light work. The heatsink is pretty wimpy on the A485

 

mine too 40-50c but th fan only on a few occasions. Mine also is a light and thin so I a sure the cooling is minimal. I rarely ever game other than solitaire so even intel's GPU would suffice.

 

2019 Computex Taipei will begin on
Tuesday, May 28 and ends Saturday, June 1

Biostar proclaims its AMD Ryzen 3000 motherboards will launch at Computex
25 Apr at 19:32
https://se7en.ws/biostar-announces-its-amd-ryzen-3000-motherboards-will-launch-at-computex/?lang=en

AMD Ryzen 3000 Zen 2 Engineering Sample Spotted With 16 Cores And 4.2GHz Boost
by Brandon Hill — Thursday, May 09, 2019
https://hothardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-3000-zen-2-engineering-sample-16-cores-x570

No Navi @ Computex?

AMD Navi release date, GPU specs, rumours, and performance
The 7nm Navi graphics cards are launching between July and September, priced below the current Radeon VII
https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/navi-gpu-release-date-performance

Live: AMD Ryzen Extreme Overclocking Past 5GHz, ft. Bearded HW
Gamers Nexus
Streamed live 3 hours ago
We're finally doing it! This livestream intends to overclock AMD Ryzen CPUs (R7 2700X) past 5GHz on liquid nitrogen, ft. Bearded Hardware. Our goal is to take Ryzen over 5GHz, featuring the R7 2700X. We'll also be overclocking memory and benchmarking with Cinebench. Liquid Nitrogen is being used for this XOC Ryzen benchmark, all leading into the Ryzen 3000 series specs unveil at Computex.
Find Bearded Hardware here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHcG...


5+GHz Ryzen Extreme Overclocking Prep, Ft. Bearded HW
Gamers Nexus
Published on May 10, 2019
This is a fun video. We work with Bearded Hardware to prepare our overclock livestream for 5+GHz Ryzen liquid nitrogen benchmarking.
Joe Stepongzi will join for both streams. Make sure you are there to watch live! We will be streaming on YouTube. The streams will focus on overclocking AMD Ryzen 2700X under liquid nitrogen, using Cinebench as the benchmark, past 5GHz.

 

Did you do any specific tuning to stop constent fan running like @custom90gt see's? Wondering what might be different between your setup's to cause the constent fan spinning?

With the thin laptops I've found they benefit most from being lifted off the table top, and given an angle to start convective cooling - lift the rear a couple of inches higher than the front.

First discovered this with the early Macbooks with sealed bottoms, they got red hot using my normal workload, with the fans screaming, used Dixie cups (paper water cups from water cooler) on 4 corners with the rear cups sitting on stacked postit pads (office supply cabinet), and that cooled it down enough to stop the fans from screaming. Added small fan to pass air under the bottom of the laptop later.

Of course that's only useful when you are in a fixed position, but there are portable stands now that collapse for backpacking, and those accomplish the same for a few bucks and fit phones, tablets, and 2in1's.

Also, finding a spot where you can draw in cool air from the front and pass into free space the heat coming out the back - without it bouncing back from the wall and back into the intake.

I hope the 7nm / 5nm trim to top off the thermals, one after the other, so we can get away from the worst of these cooling issues for a while.

 

No custom tuning, I run this way by default. I almost never hear the fan run doing normal browsing and office apps. When it does though it seems to move air pretty well. I also run the system as high performance as W10 will allow.

Hauwei runs minimal bloatware. If it makes a difference I use Office 2007 Student teacher. Again no real games or even Steam on this system.

 

Wow, that's awesome, usually you have to trim Windows Services and background stuff to disable it from waking up all the time to report back to MS HQ, so nice to hear Huawei's got it tuned out of the box.

With Windows 10 showing peaks of up to 200 processes just out of the box install, there are so many ways the OS heats things up when you expect it to be idle.

@custom90gt - maybe take a look with Task Manager/Processes to see how many are active - enable viewing all processes - and then use Task Manager/Performance - Resource Manager to see active processes and what is reading/writing to/from disk/network for the culprits raising your idle temps.

It might just be user installed software checking for updates or background systray cruft causing the load to be just high enough to kick off the fans...and with new laptops they do a lot of updates and house-setup-cleaning when first powered on.

If you catch between Windows 10 rev's you can get the worst of both. Some Media apps also index the volumes - if you have a couple they compete against each other for a drawn out period of time.

Maybe you can tune Windows to reduce the idle load and get it to run quieter?

 

My only addon is Lightshot;

 

AMD Ryzen 3000 "Zen 2" a Memory OC Beast, DDR4-5000 Possible
by btarunr Friday, 10:29 Discuss (64 Comments)
https://www.techpowerup.com/255405/amd-ryzen-3000-zen-2-a-memory-oc-beast-ddr4-5000-possible

"AMD's 3rd generation Ryzen (3000-series) processors will overcome a vast number of memory limitations faced by older Ryzen chips. With Zen 2, the company decided to separate the memory controller from the CPU cores into a separate chip, called "IO die". Our resident Ryzen memory guru Yuri "1usmus" Bubliy, author of DRAM Calculator for Ryzen, found technical info that confirms just how much progress AMD has been making.

The third generation Ryzen processors will be able to match their Intel counterparts when it comes to memory overclocking. In the Zen 2 BIOS, the memory frequency options go all the way up to "DDR4-5000", which is a huge increase over the first Ryzens. The DRAM clock is still linked to the Infinity Fabric (IF) clock domain, which means at DDR4-5000, Infinity Fabric would tick at 5000 MHz DDR, too. Since that rate is out of reach for IF, AMD has decided to add a new 1/2 divider mode for their on-chip bus. When enabled, it will run Infinity Fabric at half the DRAM actual clock (eg: 1250 MHz for DDR4-5000).

This could turn into an additional selling point for AMD X570 chipset motherboards, as they'll have a memory frequency headroom advantage over boards based on older chipsets as their BIOS will include not just the increased memory clock limit, but also the divider mode. Of course this doesn't mean that you can just magically overclock any memory kit to these 5 GHz speeds - it's probable that only the best of the best modules will be able to get close to these speeds.

1usmus also discovered that the platform adds a SoC OC mode and VDDG voltage control. We've heard from several sources that AMD invested heavily in improving memory compatibility, especially in the wake of Samsung discontinuing its B-die DRAM chips"

1usmus detailed article discussing Zen 2 memory controller and BIOS options...
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ga-polaris-gpus.799348/page-576#post-10897098

AMD Ryzen 3000 "Zen 2" BIOS Analysis Reveals New Options for Overclocking & Tweaking
by btarunr Mar 22nd, 2019 02:30 Discuss (71 Comments)
https://www.techpowerup.com/253954/...reveals-new-options-for-overclocking-tweaking

Spoiler: Click for details...

"AMD will launch its 3rd generation Ryzen 3000 Socket AM4 desktop processors in 2019, with a product unveiling expected mid-year, likely on the sidelines of Computex 2019. AMD is keeping its promise of making these chips backwards compatible with existing Socket AM4 motherboards. To that effect, motherboard vendors such as ASUS and MSI began rolling out BIOS updates with AGESA-Combo 0.0.7.x microcode, which adds initial support for the platform to run and validate engineering samples of the upcoming "Zen 2" chips.

At CES 2019, AMD unveiled more technical details and a prototype of a 3rd generation Ryzen socket AM4 processor. The company confirmed that it will implement a multi-chip module (MCM) design even for their mainstream-desktop processor, in which it will use one or two 7 nm "Zen 2" CPU core chiplets, which talk to a 14 nm I/O controller die over Infinity Fabric. The two biggest components of the IO die are the PCI-Express root complex, and the all-important dual-channel DDR4 memory controller. We bring you never before reported details of this memory controller.

AMD has two big reasons to take the MCM route for even its mainstream desktop platform. The first is that it lets them mix-and-match silicon production technologies. AMD bean-counters reckon that it's more economical to build only those components on a shrunk 7 nanometer production process, which can benefit from the shrink; namely the CPU cores. Other components like the memory controller can continue to be built on existing 14 nm technologies, which by now are highly mature (= cost-efficient). AMD is also competing with other companies for its share of 7 nanometer allocation at TSMC.

The 14 nm I/O controller die could, in theory, be sourced from GlobalFoundries to honor the wafer-supply agreement. The second big reason is the economics of downscaling. AMD is expected to increase CPU core counts beyond 8 and cramming 12-16 cores on a single 7 nm slab will make carving out cheaper SKUs by disabling cores costly, because AMD isn't always harvesting dies with faulty cores. These mid-range SKUs sell in higher volumes, and beyond a point AMD is forced to disable perfectly functional cores. It makes more sense to build 8-core or 6-core chiplets, and on SKUs with 8 cores or fewer, physically deploy only one chiplet. This way AMD is maximizing its utilization of precious 7 nm wafers.

The downside of this approach is the memory controller is no longer physically integrated with the processor cores. The 3rd generation Ryzen processor (and all other Zen 2 CPUs), hence have an "integrated-discrete" memory controller. The memory controller is physically located inside the processor, but is not on the same piece of silicon as the CPU cores. AMD isn't the first to come up with such a contraption. Intel's 1st generation Core "Clarkdale" processor took a similar route, with CPU cores on a 32 nm die, and the memory controller plus an integrated GPU on a separate 45 nm die.

Intel used its Quick Path Interconnect (QPI), which was cutting-edge at the time. AMD is tapping into Infinity Fabric, its latest high-bandwidth scalable interconnect that's heavily implemented on "Zen" and "Vega" product lines. We have learned that with "Matisse," AMD will be introducing a new version of Infinity Fabric that offers twice the bandwidth compared to the first generation, or up to 100 GB/s. AMD needs this because a single I/O controller die must now interface with up to two 8-core CPU dies, and up to 64 cores in their "EPYC" server line SKU.

Our resident Ryzen Memory Guru Yuri "1usmus" Bubliy took a really close look at one of these BIOS updates with AGESA 0.0.7.x and found several new controls and options that will be exclusive to "Matisse," and possibly the next-generation Ryzen Threadripper processors. AMD has changed the CBS section title from "Zen Common Options" to "Valhalla Common Options." We have seen this codename on the web quite a bit over the past few days, associated with "Zen 2." We have learned that "Valhalla" could be the codename of the platform consisting of a 3rd generation Ryzen "Matisse" AM4 processor and its companion AMD 500-series chipset based motherboard, specifically the successor to X470 which is being developed in-house by AMD as opposed to sourcing from ASMedia.

When doing serious memory overclocking, it can happen that the Infinity Fabric can't handle the increased memory speed. Remember, Infinity Fabric runs at a frequency synchronized to memory. For example, with DDR-3200 memory (which runs at 1600 MHz), Infinity Fabric will operate at 1600 MHz. This is the default of Zen, Zen+ and also Zen 2. Unlike earlier generations, the new BIOS offers UCLK options for "Auto", "UCLK==MEMCLK" and "UCLK==MEMCLK/2". The last option is new and will come in handy when overclocking your memory, to achieve stability, but at the cost of some Infinity Fabric bandwidth.

Precision Boost Overdrive will receive more fine-grained control at the BIOS level, and AMD is making significant changes to this feature to make the boost setting more flexible and improve the algorithm. Early adopters of AGESA Combo 0.0.7.x on AMD 400-series chipset motherboards noticed that PBO broke or became buggy on their machines. This is because of poor integration of the new PBO algorithm with the existing one compatible with "Pinnacle Ridge." AMD also implemented "Core Watchdog", a feature that resets the system in case address or data errors destabilize the machine.

The "Matisse" processor will also provide users with finer control over active cores. Since the AM4 package has two 8-core chiplets, you will have the option to disable an entire chiplet, or adjust the core-count in decrements of 2, since each 8-core chiplet consists of two 4-core CCX (compute complexes), much like existing AMD designs. At the chiplet-level you can dial down core counts from 4+4 to 3+3, 2+2, and 1+1, but never asymmetrically, such as 4+0 (which was possible on first-generation Zen). AMD is synchronizing CCX core counts for optimal utilization of L3 cache and memory access. For the 64-core Threadripper that has eight 8-core chiplets, you will be able to disable chiplets as long as you have at least two chiplets enabled.

CAKE, or "coherent AMD socket extender" received an additional setting, namely "CAKE CRC performance Bounds". AMD is implementing IFOP (Infinity Fabric On Package,) or the non-socketed version of IF, in three places on the "Matisse" MCM. The I/O controller die has 100 GB/s IFOP links to each of the two 8-core chiplets, and another 100 GB/s IFOP link connects the two chiplets to each other. For multi-socket implementations of "Zen 2," AMD will provide NUMA node controls, namely "NUMA nodes per socket," with options including "NPS0", "NPS1", "NPS2", "NPS4" and "Auto".

With "Zen 2," AMD is introducing a couple of major new DCT-level features. The first one is called "DRAM Map Inversion," with options including "Disabled", "Enabled" and "Auto". The motherboard vendor description of this option goes like "Properly utilize the parallelism within a channel and DRAM device. Bits that flip more frequently should be used to map resources of greater parallelism within the system." Another is "DRAM Post Package Repair," with options including "Enabled", "Disabled", and "Auto." This new special mode (which is a JEDEC standard) lets the memory manufacturer increase DRAM yields by selectively disabling bad memory cells, to replace them automatically with working ones from a spare area, similar to how storage devices map out bad sectors. We're not sure why such a feature is being exposed to end-users, especially from the client-segment. Perhaps it will be removed on production motherboards.

We've also come across an interesting option related to the I/O controller that lets you select PCI-Express generation up to "Gen 4.0". This could indicate some existing 400-series chipset motherboards could receive PCI-Express Gen 4.0, given that we're examining a 400-series chipset motherboard's firmware. We've heard through credible sources that AMD's PCIe Gen 4.0 implementation involves the use of external re-driver devices on the motherboard. These don't come cheap. Texas Instruments sells Gen 3.0 redrivers for $1.5 a piece in 1,000-unit reel quantities. Motherboard vendors will have to fork out quite at least $15-20 on socket AM4 motherboards with Gen 4.0 slots, given that you need 20 of these redrivers, one per lane. We've come across several other common controls, including "RCD Parity" and "Memory MBIST" (a new memory self-test program).

One of the firmware setup program pages is titled "SoC Miscellaneous Control," and includes the following settings, many of which are industry-standard:

• DRAM Address Command Parity Retry
• Max Parity Error Replay
• Write CRC Enable
• DRAM Write CRC Enable and Retry Limit
• Max Write CRC Error Replay
• Disable Memory Error Injection
• DRAM UECC Retry
• ACPI Settings:
  o ACPI SRAT L3 Cache As NUMA Domain
  o ACPI SLIT Distance Control
  o ACPI SLIT remote relative distance
  o ACPI SLIT virtual distance
  o ACPI SLIT same socket distance
  o ACPI SLIT remote socket distance
  o ACPI SLIT local SLink distance
  o ACPI SLIT remote SLink distance
  o ACPI SLIT local inter-SLink distance
  o ACPI SLIT remote inter-SLink distance
• CLDO_VDDP Control
• Efficiency Mode
• Package Power Limit Control
• DF C-states
• Fixed SOC P-state
• CPPC
• 4-link xGMI max speed
• 3-link xGMI max speed

All in all, AMD Ryzen "Matisse" promises to give advanced and enthusiast users a treasure-chest of tuning options. Thanks again to Yuri "1usmus" Bubliy, who contributed significantly to this article."

Announcing DRAM Calculator for Ryzen v1.5.0 with an Integrated Benchmark
by btarunr Tuesday, 09:54 Discuss (22 Comments) <= Links for additional DL's.
https://www.techpowerup.com/255229/...for-ryzen-v1-5-0-with-an-integrated-benchmark

AMD Ryzen Memory Tweaking & Overclocking Guide
by 1usmus, on Mar 20th, 2019,
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Ryzen_Memory_Tweaking_Overclocking_Guide/

 

Yes, but the big difference is that games sponsored by NV don't allow AMD to optimize for them due to close-source features, whereas AMD sponsored games don't have proprietary coding running... so NV can relatively easily optimize drivers for AMD games, but AMD can't do the same.

The chemical contamination issue TSMC experienced might have had something to do with it as well given that some off-hand reports stated yields for 7nm should be in the range of 80%.
I'm not entirely certain.

Bearing that in mind, there's also the fact of Apple gobbling up a lot of TSMC orders... so I don't think the blame could be placed on AMD entirely.

But regardless, I think we might see Threadrippers in higher than 12c and 16c configurations given how small they managed to shrink everything on 7nm.
So, the consumer line of Zen 2 could extend to about 16 cores... past that point, you get threadrippers ranging up to 32 cores, and finally EPYC style Zen 2 (was it 'Rome'?) would be 64c.

IF that's the case, then I see no big issue. The current lineup will hold pretty well, and even if AMD did encounter issues with Threadrippers themselves, wouldn't it be better they delay and get it right as opposed to launch them unprepared?

 

5.6GHz AMD Ryzen 2700X CPU Overclock | Stream Recap
Gamers Nexus
Published on May 12, 2019
Our stream recap of the 5.5+GHz AMD Ryzen 2700X CPU overclocking, covering the results of our liquid nitrogen benchmarks on AMD. Our overclocking livestream for the AMD R7 2700X was a huge success. We pushed well beyond our 5GHz baseline and hit 5550MHz at 1.7-1.9V, depending on the stability at the time. Voltages were definitely on the high-side, and we ended up just going for broke with a 1.9V core to try and hit 5.6GHz even. This recap will get you up to speed!

 

It was already a trimmed down fresh install and the laptop had a repaste with Kryonaut. It's jut not a great heatsink design since my 6 core 8750h idles cooler and doesn't need the fans to keep cool when doing light work... Sadly I think the i7 uses less power at idle, but I don't totally trust HWiNFO64 when it comes to wattage...

 

Milan - The Next Frontier?
AdoredTV
Published on May 11, 2019
What's coming next in the crazy, accelerating world of supercomputing.

 

DDR4 5000?

Eh 3700x will be saddened cause I will be using 3886.

Even though the memory controller may support 5000 ram. Have they said what they will recommend for Ryzen 7/9?

Read part about x570... So not really an option for me then. Will keep the x470.

Even though ram prices have gone down but ram over 4000 still very pricey

 

The point is either make it a tentative release or a delayed one. Just removing it from the map before the first silicon is even officially announced is disappointing.

I am sure too there is a glut of 12nm CCX'x they want to use up as well. Many reasons for a delay but again make it a delay not a cut off!

 

AMD Leading the Way With Innovation!
The Good Old Gamer
Published on May 12, 2019
Moore's Law is Dead, and AdoredTV, have dropped some MAJOR news on AMD's NEXT GEN CPU Technology with Zen 3!
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ake-sense-anymore.828724/page-3#post-10909875

 

If you recall there were mentions of new ThreadRipper x499 Q1-19:

AMD X499 Chipset

• Release Date: Q1 2019
• Supports Threadripper
• Unknown changes
• Sources

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/TechPowerUp/Future_Hardware_Releases/

It might be the motherboard and accessories vendors looking for relief as well. The resources to come up with the new Ryzen 2 series of motherboards + compatibility BIOSes, and accessories at the same time as ThreadRipper 3 motherboards, might have been too much to ask.

Some delay with TR3 would give the motherboard vendors and TR3 specific accessories vendors more breathing room between Zen 2 and TR3 release schedules.

Along with the 7nm crunch, spreading out these releases a bit more should allow for more time on each new product release - hopefully fewer problems and dropped details.

Computex 2019, 28 May to 01 June, 2019 would be a good time for AMD to give ThreadRipper 3 updates some love.

Gigabyte preparing X499 motherboards for 3rd Gen Ryzen Threadrippers
The names of three new Gigabyte motherboards have been revealed bearing the “X499” designation. It’s believed at least one of the boards will be capable of offering 10 GbE network data rates. AMD is expected to introduce the X499 chipset specifically for the 3rd Gen HEDT Ryzen Threadripper processors.
by Daniel R Deakin, 2019/04/02
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Gigab...for-3rd-Gen-Ryzen-Threadrippers.415593.0.html

 

AMD chipset driver 19.10.0429
From pipin on11.05.2019 at 09:42
https://www.planet3dnow.de/cms/46450-amd-chipsatz-treiber-19-10-0429/


With the release 19.10.0429 AMD has released a new chipset driver for the 64-bit editions of Windows 7 and Windows 10 for download.

Chipsets supported are the X470, X370, B450, B350 , A320 and X399 (Windows 10 only), as well as 1st and 2nd generation Ryzen processors, A-series processors and 7th generation Athlon processors, Ryzen Threadripper 1st and 2nd generation (Windows 10 only) and Ryzen desktop and mobile processors with built-in Radeon Vega graphics (Windows 10 only).

A changelog is not available. As in the release of Asus Version 18.50.06 is the AMD GPIO driver version 2.2.0.115 (12.11.2018) instead of 2.2.0.113 (24.09.2018) and the AMD PCI Device Driver version 1.0.0.0059 (11.10.2018) instead of 1.0. 0.57 (25.09.2018) included.

The package that includes the chipset driver and the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan includes the following driver versions:

• AMD GPIO Driver (for Promontory) Driver 2.0.1.0000 (25/09/2018)
• AMD GPIO driver version 2.2.0.115 (24.09.2018)
• AMD PCI Device Driver 1.0.0.59 (25.09.2018)
• AMD SMBus driver 5.12.0.38 (25.09.2018)
• AMD PSP 3.0 Device 4.9.0.0 (25.09.2018)
• AMD USB3 .1 eXtensible Host Controller 1.05.3 (22.01.2018)
• https://www.planet3dnow.de/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=433248

download:

• AMD chipset driver 19.10.0429

Links to the topic:

• AMD chipset driver 18.50.0422
• AMD RAID Driver ( SATA , NVMe RAID ) 9.2.0.105
• AMD chipset driver 18.50.06 (Update)
• AMD rolls out new PCI drivers via Windows Update

Source(s):
https://www.planet3dnow.de/cms/46450-amd-chipsatz-treiber-19-10-0429/
https://twitter.com/planet3dnow/status/1127116727513432064
https://twitter.com/momomo_us

IDK if this update is enough, but worth a try and to watch for matching software updates.

 

MSI MEG X399 Creation Motherboard Review + Linux Test
Level1Techs
Published on May 13, 2019

 

Radeon VII Undervolt/Overclock & Improved cooling guide.
Submitted 16 hours ago by mx5klein
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...ltoverclock_improved_cooling/?sort=confidence

Spoiler: Click for Guide, check reddit link above for updates

"Coming from a Vega 64 blower card to a Radeon VII I thought the tweaking process would be similar, but it isn't as simple as the original vega cards were. With a Vega 64, the card came power and thermally limited with almost no overclocking headroom which made undervolting the best option for 99% of people who just wanted to game without serious software modifications and cooling solutions. With the Radeon VII there are a few perfectly viable options and ways you can go to improve the card depending on what you want and how comfortable you are with modifications. I've detailed these options below.

Tips and Warnings:

• Be sure to save profiles with proper file names while tweaking your card. This will help you continue where you left off after a crash. Anything not saved as a profile will be dumped in the event of a crash and you will have to start from scratch.
• Be careful and take your time when modifying your cooler if you go that route. It is not anyone's fault but yours if you break your card modifying it.
• Lets face it, you bought a $700 enthusiast grade video card and want to mess around with it. You can afford $30 for the paid version of 3d mark to make this process easier. Heaven does not push the card hard enough.
• These cards are binned from the factory and the stock voltage of the card can give you a sign about how good your silicon is. My stock voltage was 1130mv, I've seen cards with only 1019mv as a stock voltage which is lower than my max undervolt. This thread is a great resource to see what you could expect for the potential of your card, average overclocks/undervolts, temperatures with various mods, fan speeds, etc.

Automatic undervolt with no other tweaking - Easiest and most simple way to reduce temps without losing any performance.

• This option is the most simple without having to spend too much time or effort for easy efficiency gains and hopefully avoiding tjunction overheating with just a click of a button in wattman. All you have to do with this is go into AMD Radeon settings -> Gaming -> Global Settings -> Global Wattman and click the automatic undervolt button. This will automatically undervolt your card and hopefully reduce fan speeds and temperatures. I've found this to get to the same values I had with a manual undervolt but limited my ability to change the other settings.

Manual undervolt/memory overclock - More complicated but you have more control over your card compared to the automatic undervolt.

This option yields about the same result as the automatic undervolt but with more freedoms such as: Changing the fan curve, overclocking memory, and lowering clock speeds below stock to reduce temperature and voltages.

Using 3d mark you are going to want to setup a custom run looping one graphics test in windowed mode. Once you have that going you are going to want to get into Wattman and while running the graphics test and slowly lower the voltage on the frequency/voltage graph.

If you notice any artifacts like flashing lights that aren't supposed to be there or flashes of black screens, you've gone too far - add voltage or decrease clock speeds.

Memory overclocking is not as important as it is with almost any other card but it is still worthwhile imo. Just slowly add frequency until you have problems then back it off 50mhz or so and leave it there.

Manual undervolt/memory overclock with cooler mods - Drastically reduce your temperatures and/or fan speeds compared to the other options.

If tjunction temperatures or fan speed/noise are still undesirable after an undervolt. Modifications to the cooler may be necessary.

The most effective cooler mod would be the Mod done By u/CarbonFireOC - Radeon VII, how to drop 40C on your stock cooler temps.

There is another mod called the washer mod but I do not personally recommend it for long term use as the extra mounting pressure on the package is concerning for the longevity of the card IMO.

After lapping the cooler as per the above post, the washer mod made no difference in temps for me anyways. After you have the cooler mod done, expect lower temperatures and/or lower fan speeds compared to the manual undervolt without the cooler mod.

Manual core/memory overclock with cooler mods - With cooler mods and an overclock expect roughly stock fan speeds/temps but with much more performance.

Using the same cooler mod as shown above, you now have thermal headroom so you can push the card further than stock with acceptable noise levels and temperatures.

This is a lot more exciting than overclocking Vega 10 because a daily overclock is actually viable on this card with reasonable power draw.

Same drill with running 3d mark as the undervolt but instead you are going to set the power limit to +20% and slowly start increasing the frequency and voltages while 3d mark is running.

Again, you are going to want to look out for any artifacts like flashing lights as when these show up the card is about to crash and is unstable. Be sure that your temps and fan speeds are manageable to you and stop adding voltage when you feel like it's not worth the temps and noise.

Personally I found this point to be around 1150mv for me. After you have found a stable core overclock bring your memory up, Just slowly add frequency until you have problems then back it off 50mhz or so and leave it there.

Final Notes:
After you've found settings you are happy with the settings you found and are stable in 3d mark be sure to test the card out in a few games and other applications until you are sure it is 100% stable. 3D Mark will get you close, but games can push cards differently than just a stress test and cause instability.

 

LOL, just saw the X570 boards are going to have fans for the chipset because in certain situations the chipset overheats and draws too much power. Haven't read what new feature is causing X570 to require active cooling.

 

POWER!!

Edit: Saw the board, seems the PCH has the low profile fan on the heatsink, and it's supposed to be for certain "new feature" situations where it will help with cooling. IDK, I've had PCH fans before, and occasionally it actually helps - if I take it off there are problems - this was on x58 in particular. Same goes for laptops - adding active cooling to PCH. Not sure if this is BIOSTAR only, time will tell. Looks like a huge heatsink, not just PCH, unless that new PCH is huge. Maybe it's for cooling something else underneath it, almost looks large enough to contain storage or other large feature.

Same for the up-TDP 2nd rev x299 Intel boards. The more the power stages, the better the cooling required, and no matter what expanse of heat sinks were added all of the reviewers pointed fans at them when OC'ing, so I guess they decided what the heck, lets just put fans on'em from the factory.

The higher core count CPU's are "rumored" to exceed previous generation socket AM4 power limits as well, so I would imagine right at the edge the previous generation AM4 motherboards might peter out as far as power delivery.

The new motherboard chipset will need to allow for even further Zen 3 power increases as well, so I would imagine that those specifications need to be met as well - unless top CPU upgrades each generation will require new motherboards.

Lots of fun stuff.

 

Hmm, well for 3700x read the TDP will be 105, similar to 2700x. So I expect my board will be able to provide ample power for 3700x. Believe my VRM can provide about 400 watts. I don't think 3700x will even use 50% of what my board will be capable of.

Both Gigabyte and Asus use the same 10+2 phase. Gigbyte with the 40A limit well math says 480 Amps... And Taichi well uses 12+2 phase w/ 60 A. Taichi is the most overkill.

At least that's my hope. I may have to wait and see what the reviewers say of the 3700x power draw.

I suspect the X570 needing fan is for those who may be using 5ghz DDR4.

 

Well, there are rumored to be a couple of higher core sku's, and AMD has put out 125w CPU / motherboard chipsets in the distant past, and may do so again if things work out as projected.

Who needs 16c/32t anyway?

No matter how hard AMD bends over backwards to bring in to compatibility previous generation socket motherboards, there are always generational interface and feature growth by the last iteration of a socket. The same will likely happen with the AM4.

Budget permitting, if the features are of interest - worth the cost - maybe consider building a new AM4 PC and selling / adopting out the current PC? That's how I do it. Keep the hardware running - no need to have an old motherboard sitting in a cabinet / drawer, keep it running so someone else can enjoy it.

 

I'm just really glad AMD is going to continue using the AM4 for the Ryzen Zen2 and be compatible with boards like X370, and X470. Good on AMD for that!

I believe the following X470 boards, Gigabyte Gaming 7, ASRock Taichi, Asus Crosshair VII all three will be overkill twice over for the 3700x and 3800x. I don't know about the MSI X470 Carbon AC, it's supposed to be a really beefy 5 phase VRM.

I reviewed Buildzoid's assessment of the 10+2 phase. He says with 2700x @ 4.3 ghz @ 1.42v, it's about 125A. Well this one has 480A available. I expect the 12 and 16 core Zen2 will still be within the peak efficiency of these boards.

With my current system with the NVME and 3886 DDR4, I don't think I'll be upgrading for a few years. The only thing I plan to upgrade maybe in two years time is the 2070 to whatever it will be. I don't think the bottleneck issues will change for the next half decade, at 1440p and higher res, the GPU will continue to be the bottleneck, not the CPU or ram.

 

Hello

I will have a Dell with Ryzen 5 2500U APU, I wonder if there will be undervolting option with some 3rd party program?

 

It probably doesn't unless the manufacturer sees a reason to provide that feature. R5 2500 APU likely isn't putting out that much heat and drawing that much power? I don't know, but it will depend on the BIOS of your board and if it has negative offset capability.

I know for my board the primary reason it has it is for XFR2 PBO overclocking.

 

Finally, good Ryzen laptops: High-end ThinkPads go AMD
PCWorld
Published on May 8, 2019
Gordon explains why AMD processors coming to Lenovo's popular ThinkPad line is a big deal, and why businesses might finally be ok jumping to it. Read the full article at PCWorld.com: https://www.pcworld.com/article/33934...


Finally, good Ryzen laptops: High-end ThinkPads go AMD
Submitted 5 days ago by InvincibleBird
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen..._ryzen_laptops_highend_thinkpads_go/?sort=new

 

To maintain low temps an high efficiency, as a general rule, you want the VRM and board components to be running at 35% or less under full load. Just not to much less than that otherwise efficiency goes out the window. Higher and efficiency along with t3mps can go out the window.

 

It seems AMD didn't allow for it in the BIOS, so there are no known exposed hooks for a 3rd party - or even for AMD 1st party tuning software to change the voltage.

Hopefully the next generation APU's will allow for user accessible voltage tuning.

 

For any power delivery system it's best to overbuild and deliver at the most efficient % of load, usually with a lot of headroom unused.

It seems the motherboard makers are using components that use up all of this headroom for OC'ing. If the owner didn't OC then that headroom would be there for more efficient operation at stock.

That's kind of the idea of undervolting, reducing power usage, and operating below the thermal throttling point, instead of pushing the OC beyond those limits for little or no gain.

Most of the time the benchmark winning numbers are wasting power and putting out way too much heat to run more than short runs with 100% fans blaring, and are therefore useless in everyday use.

Better to put more time in coming up with the most efficient daily use settings - as those are the ones that will be setting the fan load and power bill in the long term.

It's tempting to put the pedal to the floor though, right?

 

Agreed, fun to floor it . Usually well designed board that at stock runs 35% has room to OC but as you mention there goes efficiency and headroom.

 

I have a question.

Why the heck do some people assume that because of the I/O, Zen 2 latency will increase relative to existing Zen?
Thus far, official information on latency has been opposite of that... and we only had unofficial leaks which we have 0 way of verifying that they were Zen 2 to begin with, and even if they were, there's still the matter that we've in all likelihood seen engineering samples (which aren't finalized products).
Plus, there's the issue of software not necessarily recognizing (or working properly because of that with) the hardware.

This is an older one:
https://www.techpowerup.com/249108/...ts-mcm-cpus-by-disintegrating-the-northbridge

"The Ryzen Threadripper WX family highlights many of these bottlenecks, where video encoding benchmarks that are memory-intensive see performance drops as dies without direct access to I/O are starved of memory bandwidth. AMD's solution to this problem is by designing CPU dies with a disabled northbridge (the part of the die with memory controllers and PCIe root complex). This solution could be implemented in its upcoming 2nd generation EPYC processors, codenamed "Rome."

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1356...n-approach-7nm-zen-2-cores-meets-14-nm-io-die

"Since the memory controller will now be located inside the I/O die, all CPU chiplets will have a more equal memory access latency than today’s CPU modules. Meanwhile, AMD does not list PCIe inside the I/O die, so each CPU chiplet will have its own PCIe lanes."

Seriously.
Where is this 'latency issue' coming from?
Where are the official sources from AMD or even TSMC (or for that matter GLOFO) that confirm this problem?
People keep saying that 'everyone' is expecting Zen 2 to have latency issues, and yet, we know that personal opinions of the public (even if it comes from millions/billions of people) don't exactly matter when it comes to science (which easily disputes myths - and the only reason myths persist is because of willful ignorance).
Just because the masses think something will happen, doesn't make it so.

Does anyone have credible evidence to back up these Zen 2 I/O latency problems?
I've been trying to find them, but thus far, nothing comes up from industry sources, only personal opinions.

Here's more from TomshHardware:
https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/ryzen-amd-third-gen-7nm-processor,news-59823.html

"AMD is now using a second-gen Infinity Fabric to connect the compute die to the I/O die. This design helps AMD keep the areas of the chip that don’t scale well, like the memory controllers and I/O, on a proven and mature node, while also leveraging the performance, density and economic advantages of the 7nm node for the important compute functions."

 

HPE is serious about forward progress in the Supercomputer realm, and is now well on their way to "owning" the top 2 builds: the Intel / Cray " Aurora" and the recently announced AMD / Cray " Frontier" contracts, both now brought into HPE through the acquisition of Cray - HPE must be very excited.

Hewlett Packard Enterprise to Acquire Supercomputer Pioneer Cray
By Don Clark, May 17, 2019
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/technology/hp-enterprise-cray-supercomputers.html

Hewlett Packard Enterprise to acquire Cray, consolidating supercomputer power
It'll pay $1.3 billion to take over the maker of what'll be the world's fastest machine.
BY STEPHEN SHANKLAND, OSCAR GONZALEZ, MAY 17, 2019 9:54 AM PDT
https://www.cnet.com/news/hpe-to-acquire-supercomputer-maker-cray-for-1-3b/

The CEO of Hewlett Packard Enterprise explains how its $1.3 billion acquisition of Cray fits into the master plan — and why it could give it a boost with government customers
Benjamin Pimentel
https://www.businessinsider.com/hewlett-packard-enterprise-cray-acquisition-ceo-2019-5

 

Audio Only, Lenovo Commercial channel, discussion for sales of AMD Lenovo computers. Interesting...try initially starting at 05:00 to get a feel for the content.

In The Know With Lenovo: The Benefits of AMD
Lenovo Commercial
Published on May 17, 2019

 

AMD 7nm ZEN 2 64 Core & 32 Core CPU Specs & Benchmarks Leaked
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...99-xeon-vs-epyc.805695/page-275#post-10912603

 

Ryzen 3000-Series EXPLAINED! Time For Great AMD Notebooks?
HardwareCanucks
Published on Apr 9, 2019
The AMD Ryzen 3000 series will be broken into two very different architectures: one for the desktop (Zen 2) and another for notebooks and Chromebooks (Zen+). Let's go over some of the differences with the AMD mobile / notebook processors first before getting into the upcoming desktop series sometime in the near future.


andi klein 1 month ago
"Hope, that Lenovo brings out a premium AMD Ryzen-H Thinkpad."

Jake Ross 1 month ago
"The AMD notebooks we already have would be great, if the cooling were better. Current Ryzen APUs are pretty stellar. It's a shame the industry has gotten so thin and weak."

WiseSilverWolf 2 days ago
"Ryzen 3000 is taking too long Navi is taking too long it feels like AMD is moving at a snails pace for new releases."

 

This is a good question, but takes some nuance to explain.

First, let's start by examining why the WX Threadripper series has memory issues, both the claims and the truth. Then, we will examine the structure of the upcoming chips related to the memory controller and CPU core dies. Then, we shall finish up by addressing the rumors and why they are misinterpreting the data.

To start, Threadripper WX was designed so the memory controllers on two of the four dies were shut off. That meant that every time it needed a memory call, it had to go over the IF, then out to memory, then round trip. This meant that you had two IF crossings as well as the memory crossing. At first blush, this seems roughly like the two with mem controllers using the controller on the other chip (and for the most part, it is). But, this also means that the "average" memory call is higher than that of the chips with direct memory access.

Now, they first espoused that these chips did not have enough memory bandwidth to support 24 and 32 cores. This, to a degree, is true, but not entirely. Through later experimentation, it was shown that a 32-core 7551P showed the exact same behavior as its quad channel counterpart. So although there is a chance that the CPU would benefit with more bandwidth of memory per core, that wasn't the cause of the problem.

So, what was causing the problem. First I will cover a less discussed issue which I feel is a problem, but has not been confirmed, then I will cover the actual problem that Level1Techs and Anandtech addressed with CorePrio and the scheduler. My hypothesis is that there was an issue of stale data. What do I mean by that? Well, for cross core communications, each CCX is connected to its mirror core CCX. So, if you needed data from a core that was not on its mirror CCX, you would have to jump to the corresponding CCX, then use the infinity fabric to go to the other CCX, then round-trip it. That is 4 Infinity Fabric crossings, resulting in a core to core communication in the area of 180-230ns. Considering the speed of cycles, plus when it would then need to do the memory jump as well for something to complete it's calculation, by the time it was done, there are times that the data it was working on was no longer needed. This then requires for the data to be retired, etc. Now, the effects of stale data can be combated with a good scheduler with node awareness. And this is where the confirmed problem lies (although it should be noted that AMD said this is not the whole of the problem, but is related). What was found is that Microsoft's scheduler has a problem. It wants to move all the processing onto the main core. Because it is constantly moving the threads to core 0, you get a problem of thread thrashing. It inefficiently keeps moving tasks from other threads, and sometimes other dies, back to core 0. This causes a slowdown in processing that destroys efficiency. But, the problem doesn't stop there. Microsoft's scheduler does not have good NUMA node awareness. What I mean by that is the scheduler is designed more for 2P systems and was modified for an old Intel chip where there was a shared memory controller, but two core dies on chip. So, Microsoft's scheduler was made to overflow 1 node, meaning that if one set of core dies is filled, it can schedule over onto another node. That seems fine until you realize that there are 4-nodes on this one chip. Because of that, the scheduler could not properly schedule for the tasks to be handled on a chip with 4-dies. To address this, AMD has the dynamic local mode cutting the cores in half and CorePrio to try to reset the thread scheduler to help.

Now that we have discussed the issue in more depth, let's look at what the new chips bring to the table. First, the I/O chip moved the memory controllers off the core chip die. That means for every memory call, you will have to go over Infinity Fabric. Second, they improved the memory controller and can bin the I/O dies, which means that higher in the stack they are likely to have better memory controllers, same with core dies. Third, they doubled the bandwidth of IF with gen 2, along with lowering the IF2 latency. Fourth, on Epyc chips, they standardized the latency more between the chips, which means certain latencies will be higher, other latencies will be lower, but you will have fewer issues with stale data. They also worked on the retire pipeline on Zen 2 (which the standard latency and changes in chip prediction and store/retire pipelines point to addressing my critique on stale data above). There are still questions surrounding core die to core die comms or if they all travel through the I/O chip. We should know more on that either in a week OR we may have to wait for Hot Chips in August to get the nitty gritty details on it (please, AMD, record and put that Keynote on the AMD Youtube page!!!).

So, now to the rumors and leaks. Because you have to go over IF for EVERY memory call, people assume the additive latency of a memory call will be higher than that of the first gen and second gen Ryzen chips. It is a logical assumption since you have to go over both to get the data. What they miss is that with the lower latency IF2 and the improved memory controller, the latency does not necessarily have to be higher, and could be lower.

AdoredTV awhile ago analyzed a sample on UserBench which had the low latency out to 16MB (showing that the L3 cache was larger), but also showed that with a single channel filled, the latency was around 100ns, which is higher than first and second gen Ryzen. With the recent leak on the 12-core with dual-channel memory configuration, using memory which seemed to be at stock around 2666, we saw a latency of 80ns, which is in line roughly with the first and second gen Ryzen memory latency until memory is overclocked and timings are tightened (my latency can be between 58ns and 68ns, depending on timings and settings on my 1950X). Now, the new chips will also allow for the IF2 to run at half the rate of single rate on memory (so 2666 would be 1333 single rate rather than the double, and half of that would be what IF2 would run at). Now, with slower speeds, you lower bandwidth and increase latency. But, because of this, you can now clock your memory higher, like 4000MHz. So you would be lowering the real latency in ns of the memory, but increasing the latency off the IF2. So the question is, on balance, will the faster ram offset the latency increase on IF2? But, either way, it means that IF2 will not hold back the memory clocks.

To be frank, the assumptions that the latency on Zen 2 will increase is based on a logical deduction, but without examining features of the new processors which cut against the increased latency hypothesis. Because of that, don't worry about them until we have hard data in hand, which will be between 1 and 6 weeks.

 

You have to remember too that if IF is halved to allow 5Ghz memory it will increase latency as well. As far as waiting, well we need the hardware and some analyzation time. It very well could end up TR3 has even worse latency issues, maybe not on a 32 core dual CCX but on any true quad CCX (another reason for delays?).

I honestly think the Zen2 will not be bringing the shovel to Intel's grave as many hoped. It hopefully will be an improvement but I do not see it being a major game changer. Now Epyc and the extreme amount of cores, that could very well be a game changer.

 

IDK if AMD is thoughtless enough to "increase" latency beyond reasonable / acceptable limits as part of improving memory performance - I'm sure AMD is hyper-sensitive to latency issues given the Ryzen 1/1+ buggaboo with latency being the limiting factor for gaming performance.

Also, the only reason I can think of for Threadripper being delayed is the reason AMD has already stated as being a limiting factor for 7nm production - AMD has to allocate products from the same 7nm production pool, so some things have to come before others.

Threadripper releases so far has lagged behind Ryzen CPU release already in the last 2 releases so it makes sense ThreadRipper 3 will "lag" behind Ryzen 3 as well.

Except for AMD trimming off the Threadripper 3 end of the product release map, nothing has been officially said about ThreadRipper 3, so maybe we should just be patient and let AMD work their magic?

As for me, I'm hoping for this kind of magic with Navi+Ryzen 3 to continue to unfold:

 

All alone: The only two laptops with rare AMD Ryzen 7 3750H CPU are now finally shipping notebookcheck.net | May 20, 2019

 

Realistically How Navi Can WIN!
The Good Old Gamer
Published on May 20, 2019

 

AMD probably knows how much the new Epyc will be in demand. Where before it only commanded a small takeover in server market share it may soon command a much larger stake. This will mean a lot of CPU's at 4 CCX per CPU. Just thinking of the few super computers announced the FAB's will have to be running fast and furiously.

Whenever you half the speed there is the latency add or the step down and then the added latency of the slower access speed after the step down. It is inevitable but hopefully the higher RAM speed would help somewhat.

 

Oooooof shots fired, 16 core Zen2 @ 4.2Ghz scores 4,278 in R15!!

So says Jum from Adoredtv (claims to have screenshot, but doesn't show)

 

https://m.hexus.net/tech/news/graph...md-will-unveil-two-navi-skus-monday-computex/

$400 and $500 Navi products according to the Sapphire rep. Aftermarket cards likely higher as is the norm.

 

Rumored AMD Navi Radeon RX 3080 Branding Is Risky And Ridiculous Hothardware.com | May 21, 2019

One of the more recent rumors zeroed in on a $330 price tag for the alleged Radeon RX 3080 XT with performance that would match the NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070. Considering that the GeForce RTX 2070 retails for around $500, that would make for a powerhouse performance bargain. But reality has sunken in and there's no way that AMD could possibly undercut NVIDIA by that much on its new 7nm process node... even if it was having remarkable success with initial yields.