AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

plenty of opportunity too say x399, not supported but no;
https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-threadripper-roadmap-confirms-4th-next-gen-hedt-cpus/

There are other links an info as well not stating am4 specifically but ZEN itself. you guys can make excuses all you want, they have been caught period.

Oh, and misinformation by exclusion of pertinent information is lying to consumers.

 

Sorry, but unofficial leaks (that might or might not be real) from 2018 do not constitute promises. If you can find a statement from AMD stating a commitment to the TR4 that would be one thing, but everything I've seen that's actually from AMD only indicates a commitment to the AM4. For example: https://community.amd.com/community...4-platform-longevity-getting-ryzen-3000-ready (this is a blog on AMD's site by someone who's indicated to be an AMD employee).

If you're unhappy that AMD didn't maintain compatibility on the TR4, fine. Just don't claim that AMD made a promise that they didn't actually make.

 

Wrong, that in 2017./2018 was the roadmap and it changed without them telling us. And yes there is a specific link, give me some time here.

 

The New HEDT King Maybe we will see the first +$4000 Hedt chips from the Red side when AMD release their 64 cores next spring/summer?

In a strange turn of events, with Intel’s crazy price cuts in place, AMD’s new Threadripper will actually occupy the higher ground on pricing. If you use the overly simplistic metric of dollar per thread.
www.pcworld.com

 

The price cuts are going to make the 10980XE a very interesting piece of hardware if you can stomach the power consumption. It's already appearing online at drop shipment companies at around $1000 which makes the 18/36 core part a very serious peice of hardware for enthusiast. My 1600w Titanium rated PSU would love the challenge. Hmmm. I would definitely need to go new build with 360mm radiators, custom loop (my first) to get the most out of it. But were are nearing winter, and I could use an extra heater.

https://www.provantage.com/intel-cd8069504381800~7ITEP6N4.htm
https://www.provantage.com/intel-bx8069510980xe~7ITEP6N2.htm

 

Here is proof, when AMD went for USB certification it was planning x399, now of course that is dead. My gripes are they are not being honest about the reason and deceitful in not letting anyone know till last minute just to screw with the enthusiasts and general consumers. AMD knew of the leaks but let them perpetuate.

 

That message was empty, nothing there.

Applying for USB certification is not the same as a public promise. That was only the plan as of that date, and plans can change. For that matter, Intel has changed plans innumerable times. Were all their claims about 10nm and 7nm being just around the corner deliberate attempts to screw with consumers? I believe that the answer is "no" in both cases; most likely both ran into technical or supply chain problems.

So I will repeat: can you find a public promise -- not a third party, not leaked slides, not regulatory/conformance applications, but an explicit promise -- that AMD made that it would retain TR4 compatibility for Threadripper 3? If not, this discussion is not worth having.

 

I am not saying it was a promise but apparently at that point it was the intent. And yes, I can not find the link right now but there is one of an AMD exec making the statement towards "Zen" not specifically "AM4" being till 2020.

I again understand they did not want to sabotage x399 and 29xx sales but to know they have info leaked about continued support just to intentionally yank it at the last minute, well...….

Also being as all the chipset leaks from the geekbench showed original whitehaven we KNOW it worked.

Also as I said this was an Intel move, does that make me happy about just because they have done it makes it ok for AMD to do it to us as well?

 

Yes, however, supporting AM4 until 2020 is still holding ground for many consumers (aka, potential 'bulk' of the market).
It's only the TR's that are affected, are they not?

 

intel's current HEDT sucks. lower IPC, high memory latency just like zen2 and with crappy mesh design, while having only 1/5th of cache size as zen2. high power consumption can't even overclock that well cause of it without custom loop, overall terrible system imho.

zen2 TR just doesn't have high enough clocks and IPC to justify the spending. waiting to see zen 3 IPC and clocks, then zen 4 etc

 

Mon, Nov 11, 2019
AMD Promises Long-Term Support For Threadripper 3000 sTRX4 CPU Socket

AMD goes on to say that the switch to sTRX4 "sets us up nicely for future development and scalability of the Threadripper platform.

Will supporting 2 generation mean long-term? At least it’s more than for 1

 

LOL, that is fine, I only wanted x399 compliance for now not longer term. Just like getting x570 sets up for better long term too. Better features etc..

Now it looks like this is good to DDR5, so we will get 2 gens from this as well, 3000 and 4000.

Oh and that is a stretch, the pins are not placement compatible, they controlled where the pins were placed so they could have made it compatible. Do they think all of us are stupid or something?

 

There could be valid technical reasons for having to change the pinout. 1usmus (Yuri Bubily) offered his thoughts on why the change (changes to the memory controller, additional power pins, PCIe -- just because mainstream was able to use the same socket pinout doesn't mean that HEDT could also). https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-...-2950x-2920x-owners-club-94.html#post28115794

 

TRX40 leaks;


I understand with higher tear that pinout had to be changed to some degree. Thing is there were already some spare ones they could have used so at minimum making x399 compliant to say 32 cores but then made TRX40, etc., non older gen compliant at all.

Edit; thing is we were screwed and nothing can be done about it now. That is other than just letting AMD know we are not happy and not just bending over taking it without complaining at least and making them pay too. They have lost a severe amount of trust on my end.

 

@Papusan I find it good to chase down the original statement instead of quoting it 3rd hand (or worse) through WCCFtech to Hothardware, so here's the original AMD statement so people can read the entire thing:

Performance Preview: 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen Threadripper Processors for Creators
Submitted 4 days ago by AMDOfficial Official AMD Account
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/dsy4kw/performance_preview_3rd_gen_amd_ryzen/

" Things to know for upcoming platforms

Hi, everyone. As you now know, both the AMD Ryzen 9 3950X processor and 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen Threadripper platform are coming up fast. If you plan to build a PC around one of these solutions, we want to provide key details that may influence your buy list.

In case you missed it, here’s the news today:

1) AMD Ryzen 9 3950X will be available for sale starting November 25.

2) 24-core and 32-core 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen Threadripper models will be available for sale starting November 25 as well. See this video for more info.

For the additional updates, here’s the scoop.

Choosing an AMD Ryzen 9 3950X Cooler

The AMD Ryzen 9 3950X is almost here! In our pre-release testing, we’re finding it’s easily the fastest 16-core processor out there from both a 1T and nT perspective—and then some. Yes, we’re finding it regularly out-performs a certain 18-core processor. It’s also the highest 1T and nT performance in the 3rd Gen Ryzen portfolio, which is pretty darn impressive considering it also has the highest core count in the family.

As we move to release this month, however, we wanted to let you know that the Ryzen 9 3950X will not be bundled with a cooler. After listening to your feedback over the past few months, we believe the fastest 16-core desktop processor in the world is best experienced with a liquid cooling solution. AMD recommends an AIO with a 280mm (or larger) radiator, such as the NZXT Kraken X62 we have been using with great results. We also have a list of other coolers that are a good fit on AMD.com.

We know this is a change, but we are certain that you’ll be impressed by the performance of this combination, and you’ll find a list of suggested coolers on AMD.com soon.

Introducing Socket sTRX4

3rd Gen AMD Ryzen Threadripper processors will be using a new socket calledsTRX4. While the pin count will be the same as previous-gen Threadripper products at 4094, the mapping of those pins to voltage or data will be different this time ‘round. You cannot install a 3rd Gen Threadripper into an older motherboard, nor an older Threadripper into a new sTRX4 motherboard.

There are two essential reasons for this:

1) We wanted to drive maximum performance for the 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen Threadripper processors and sTRX4 helps us do exactly that. The 3rd Gen Threadripper will have 88 total PCIe Gen 4 lanes with 72 usable (CPU+motherboard). The net of total versus usable is because we’re also increasing the CPU<->chipset link from 4x Gen4 to 8x Gen4—quadruple the bandwidth vs. 2nd Gen TR. Extra data pins between the chipset and CPU make this possible, so you’ll be able to hang more I/O off the motherboard at full performance.

2) The socket change also sets us up nicely for future development and scalability of the Threadripper platform, both on a near- and long-term basis.

So there ya have it: what’s next for 3950X and a little bit more about 3rd Gen Threadripper. Gonna be an exciting couple of weeks ahead of us! Thanks for reading—We really appreciate it. "

Still not good enough AMD, we need to have an explicit count of CPU generations we can count on being supported on TRX40 or at least the year through which we can keep getting CPU upgrades on the TRX40 platform.

AMD's statement seems to me like they don't really want to commit...

IDK if AMD just made deciding on a 3950x build or a 3970x build easier...or harder... gonna have to think about it.

 

Well actually 3970x is easier than if it were a direct upgrade on an x399. The reason is if it were PnP then the new Zen chips would b much harder to get ahold of. Harder in the sense of cost and work.

3950x an easier cost decision. You can expect a 3950x if you already have a board to be under $1,000 USD. A 3970x to be almost $3,000 USD for chip and top end board.

As far as the future, expect whatever you build to be it. It looks like they want the 3000 and then 4000 series to b a Tic and then Toc but you can no longer count on that.

 

Yeah, the AM4 might get 1 more generation, TRX40 is more likely to get at least one more - probably 2 - unless AMD wants a revolt on their hands.

Gonna have to wait for reviews - which I was anyway, but heck it would make it sit easier to know just how long TRX40 is staying to help make the parts picking easier.

 

I think it’s good they are making the platform better, but I agree there needs to be more clarity so people know what they’re buying. These designs are finalised so far in advance, I don’t see why that shouldn’t be possible.

 

The issue is AMD wants you to look at 3,000's at this point as new build, not upgrades as promised. They are in the Tick Tock mode. Problem here also is like the 2,000's they may promise a 15% uplift but with the 4,000's only end up with 1-3%. So again build what ever it is but do not expect it to upgrade much.

We got lucky with AM4 but even that they want new builds as x570's. Epyc was never a worry as data centers would not drop several thousand on a CPU to toss it a year or so later to just upgrade the CPU. So I like others fell for it hook, line and sinker swallowing the 1950x bait. Lesson well taught and learned!

 

Uh, CPUs aren't normally considered FRUs (field-replaceable upgrades). On enterprise server systems, the board/CPU combination might be a FRU; on smaller systems, the entire system, including chassis, is replaced. And these systems might be kept in service for 5 years or more. Look at the available GCP and AWS cloud instance types -- most of those are still Haswell/Broadwell generation.

And once again, AMD never promised a chip upgrade from the TR 2000 -> 3000. If you confused roadmap (not even public, for that matter) with promise, that's your lookout. Regarding the X570, would you really have wanted AMD to be stuck on PCIe gen3?

 

Here is the problem: they stated widely Zen until 2020 same platform, while delivering on that with the mainstream and Epyc platforms. It was assumed that TR HEDT would get the same. Had I known they would not have compatibility, because I specifically felt Zen 2 was when to get on platform, I would have bought an Intel 12 core 7920X. Period.

But, that should not be confused with wanting a longer lived board. This is about expectations with AMD and they showed themselves to have violated that trust.

With that said: IF AMD FORCES USING TRX40 IN 2021, I'M GOING INTEL HEDT! Seriously, that is when DDR5 and PCIe5 is ready. That means if they are doing new boards for servers and mainstream with that support, but screw HEDT again by doing no way to get DDR5, etc., or ACTUALLY MAKING IT COMPATIBLE with two board standards after having our pants down with X399 and them not giving us compatibility when all leaks to now used X399 boards, then they can just do whatever, I'll take Intel's 7nm (if they actually get there) and call it a day.

The BS of artificially limiting the compatibility is the issue. They peeved off consumers, then tell is just buy mainstream or buy what we already have if we need the I/O or mem bandwidth when we told them exactly what we wanted. A company that listens to marketing over consumers deserves what it gets when they lose those consumers they didn't listen to.

So, I'll say this clearly, if they are going to make TRX40 compatible with Zen 4 and not give it now, especially without giving a new board with the new features, but even if that is present, it will show further they forked early adopters of Zen and Zen+ intentionally, to which I say to consumers, tell AMD to fork itself right back.

The problem isn't what was done, it was misleading consumers and missing their expectations. You have to remember that selling products is about meeting consumer expectations, NOT manipulating their expectations through marketing (because if the marketing fails, you have peeved off consumers like now).

AMD KNEW that it was expected to have TR compatible on X399. They previously showed telling people what boards could really handle the 2970/2990WX on VRM was a headache, but was managed. Instead, they forced the MB upgrade this time, then feed is their schtick. We've seen Intel artificially limit compatibility based on pins for decades. So when we see it here, trying to blow sunshine and lollipops up our keisters isn't exactly what we are looking for. Then adding these boards will be long lived, like the promise we thought we had on X399, is little solace. In fact, it's more a spit in the face, especially as the am4 and Epyc platforms get compatibility. It's like saying only one of three product lines did our promise not apply; sorry we didn't tell you that, but this time we mean it (but you'll have to upgrade the board completely again in two years to get DDR5, but we'll torture socket compatibility then just for you, and this time we mean it).

To me, it means to fix this PR problem, they are offering that while announcing that when they need the freedom to reconfigure the socket for new ram and potentially a new PCIe 5.0 PHY, they will not do it because they are trying to make-up for their current bad decisions. Why would I want a platform compromised two years early to make up for their FUBAR on compatibility for this generation. Literally making a 16-core X399 limited run as an apology would be better than this crappy announcement as it is saying they are gimping the Zen 4 TR due to socket compatibility two years out when major changes in the industry apply in two years. Why would they so such a thing? It just seems STUPID!!!

 

As far as x570, they are fine, upgrades there can be done pea meal. I agree of FRU as Epyc CPU's is why I am saying it doesn't really matter to AMD.As far as Zen compliance to 2020, there was a link I have to find it yet but will.

 

Really? You would have bought a 7920X? Even though the 3900X blows it clean out of the water? Or is it specifically the I/O you need? Or are you just miffed?

AMD may have known that people who jump to expectations based on random slide decks floating around would make that assumption, but that doesn't commit them to anything. Had they stuck with the X399 they would have had an inferior platform, with fewer I/O lanes and possibly inability to deliver enough current to everywhere on the package. Is that really what you would have wanted? Just because some people may have wanted to maintain X399 compatibility doesn't mean that that was the right decision for all users.

 

I have to say I am against a x399 compliant 16 core as it is dead on TRX40. The idea, like x570, would have been I could have upgraded peace meal. That is a dead issue now. The only way I agree with 16 core x399 chip is if it labeled as EOL and say a $100 premium over 2950x. I would prefer to see a 24 core as a premium over the 2970wx.

 

No one is saying the TRX40 isn't a natural upgrade, that is ok. It is just for the 24/32 core x399 could have been kept compliant.

Remember all the original geekbench leaks were done on Whitehaven chipsets, the original TR chipset.

 

Yeah, explain, then, why Epyc is compatible with more PCIe lanes available on the new boards than the old ones. I'll wait.

But they also mentioned it was possible to upgrade and almost marketed that they could get white glove service for replacing CPUs when Epyc 1 launched, which was a push to say buy.

See my response in prior post and to TANWare in this post.

Stop trying to flip it back on the consumer. It's a crappy move. You have compatibility for mainstream and server, but not HEDT. You have X399 used for testing and leaks, but no compatibility for release. You have consumer expectations, regardless of your analysis of whether their beliefs were justified, of compatibility which now doesn't exist. These expectations are wider than just a few here or there, hence why the scramble to promise longer chipset compatibility this time, etc. It's like that promise you won't be beat by an abusive spouse again. After the first couple times, you should wise up (granted, Intel and Nvidia also have their abusive ways with consumers as well).

See my explanation in my prior post on why this is a problem (consumer expectations, not actual compatibility). And all this dancing around now just shows how big of a mess they made for themselves.

 

Are you daft? I own a 1950X. It was between buying a 7920X and a 1950X years ago. You bringing up the 3900X misses the point entirely. I jumped on platform, in part, because of future compatibility. Had I known what I know now, I could have upgrade my CPU his year from a 7920X to the new 18-core. I bought I'd upgrade to Zen 2 this year from my 1950X. The expectation was the promise to 2020 applied to all lines. It exists for servers and mainstream, not HEDT.

I needed mem bandwidth, some more cores, and PCIe. Did I fully need what the 16-core offered on lanes? No. Not at that moment. Could I have made due with 12-cores over this time? Yes. Could the programs that I use that have better Intel optimizations and use the higher frequency have benefited? Yes.

I was an early adopter, in part from their misleading presentation making it seem compatibility would exist for Zen 2 TR3. I literally was planning on a 7900X until TR was announced. Then the 12-core being in my budget, I would have purchased that. But the 16-core, at that price, plus future socket compatibility, forget about it.

Literally, go read my comments early in this thread and throughout the Intel vs AMD thread. That was one of my factors. And yes, you will see I clearly stated I was going to buy Intel. Now kind of wish I had. I'd have an 18-core with higher IPC than I currently have and higher frequency.

 

Good stuff, send it to AMD and get them the feedback they deserve for dropping X399 when even though not "promised" it was expected.

I doubt there is anything AMD can do now to deliver Zen 2 on x399 - AMD is too far down the production scheduling path - if AMD hasn't already prepared it for production it's too late to do it now.

Venting is good, but aim it at AMD's feedback portals. Write this in their community forums, fill out ticket / complaint / feedback forms, heck call AMD support up on the phone and run a Chat in parallel.

Direct feedback to AMD is the only way AMD is going to hear your words.

@TANWare

 

You still can, since you have to upgrade your motherboard to continue in the ThreadRipper family, or switch to AM4, you could also switch back to Intel.

Why not? If you are that upset with AMD, show them you mean it, drop out - sell your 1950x rig - and switch back to Intel.

And, be sure and directly tell AMD what you did and why. That's the only way to show AMD you mean it, do it and hit them where it hurts - let them know they can't get away with that kind of neglect of their loyal ThreadRipper customers.

Spoiler: I wouldn't do that personally myself...

I wouldn't jump to Intel - Intel has far too many problems, at least for a cool decade or so.

As unhappy as I am that AMD didn't pull out 1 more generation on x399 I can understand the need to move on.

Worse yet I am disappointed AMD didn't plan it all out better with clear notice to people on x399 so they could save up over a longer period of time to also afford the motherboard upgrade.

Those ThreadRipper 3 CPU's are also a few hundred over what I expected - but then again when Intel releases their new HEDT lineup I can imagine AMD will have some kind of response.

For now I can wait to see how this works itself out between now and the first 90 days or so after initial shipments.

 

I would except:

1) the value of the 1950X used, even with mine being a cherry chip running 4.2GHz all core, which I bought binned from silicon lottery for $1250, is so low that I'd recover maybe $450 at this point.

2) add in $270 maybe for the taichi X399, and that is if lucky.

So together, that is $700. Mainstream isn't an option on men bandwidth, and no leaks really test hard situations where memory is the choke point on the 3950X, meaning their limited leak comparison to the 18-core is useless for me.

Next, switching back to Intel for a large enough improvement for me would take around $1300-1450. So selling my current rig doesn't help me now. Granted, the 7900X and 7920X are now selling for a couple hundred used, but....

3) I had $1400 saved for just a CPU upgrade to drop in. That money is now spent in my storage array, as previously explained. With that, if I was on Intel, I could have upgraded to the 18-core. If I still had that money, I probably would have to make a point.

As such, it doesn't make sense at the moment. The drop in CPU value alone is why I was going to pick up a cheap X399 board, deprecate my current CPU to a different build, and been fine. I could have even bought the 3960X, which is why I saved the extra over $1K, to potentially step up to a higher core count (didn't need more cores, but was considering it). I could have bought a cheep X399 board later and set the 1950X to the side.

Instead, I'll be sitting on this rig until 2021. If Intel can deliver 7nm, or if Epyc 5nm can be overclocked, that will be my deciding factor. In a way, this seems like AMDs behavior during the Dozer years in some respects.

And I must admit my folly to @tilleroftheearth . I was wrong to buy on assumed platform support. We argued this many times. I concede defeat on this point. AMD is as untrustworthy in this regard as Intel, except Intel clearly stated mainstream 1 generation of compatibility, HEDT and Server gets 2 gens. They even have some occasions, usually when pinched on the move to a new node, that the above compatibility was extended. But you point on ignoring future platform compatibility is crystal clear now and I fell it only fair I tag you for this statement considering our interactions over the past couple years (this is limited specifically to what is said in this paragraph, no farther).

 

Same boat, the 1950 will do for now. I will not recommend AMD any further based on future compliance. And as mentioned I hope they have to eat this mistake and no one trusts them EVER again!

 

Ill be buying in as soon as it makes sense for me.

Hopefully sometime next year I can snag the 3950x for a decent price.

 

Yup, sometimes you can get lucky and sometimes you find that you've bought last a generation model 31 days before a completely new system release is announced.

I'll probably buy the CPU(s) just announced 3-6 months from now, with only a short "top dog" rating - shortly before the next AMD generation CPU's are announced and then quickly released to top Intel's offerings, again.

I'll have a motherboard worth another upgrade (or two?) depending on AM4 / TRX40 viability, only to be out of funding for an expensive back to back CPU upgrade. Sometimes you can't win for losing.

" Well, it just goes to show you, it’s always something — if it ain’t one thing, it’s another." - Roseanne Roseannadanna

" ....to lose is to win and he who wins shall lose" - The 1st Doctor

Hey!, @ajc9988 @TANWare

Wait a minute both of you have 1st generation AMD 1950x ThreadRipper, what about "upgrading" to more cores using Zen+ ThreadRippers? The prices might drop a bit more if you wait as well - and that would extend the useful life of your setup with *more cores* for hundreds less.

Microcenter has the Zen+ ThreadRipper's on discount already:

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2970WX 3.0GHz 24 Core TR4 Boxed Processor
$799 ($500 discount)

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX 3.0 GHz 32 Core TR4 Boxed Processor
$1499 ($300 discount)

You could jump up one level higher in expected core count and get 32c/64t instead of 24c/48t. I know it's not the same, but it's at least one more upgrade for your x399's that would give them a bit more lifespan.


Of course there will be a bunch of x399 owners looking to make that same upgrade and unless AMD continues to feed the demand for ThreadRipper Zen+ with new production runs, those CPU's might be a limited resource...

 

The 2970WX and 2990WX are NOT worth it and the paltry percentage gain from TR1 makes the 2950X not worth it.

They never resolved in windows the issues of NUMA awareness and the scheduler. Even with the fixes for Intel's AP series CPUs, I am highly doubtful the changes in 1909 can really take care of the problem, including and especially the scheduler. Plus, the memory bandwidth per core is kind of low, especially with not having the direct access on two dies. I've explained my own theory on the latency and stale data before. There is a reason the 18-core could beat the 32 core in some workloads, save cases where you could store what is needed in cache.

So to recommend that is almost an insult at this point. The resolution of those issues by making the node situation in Zen 2 is what makes the difference and is why Intel has to slash their pricing. Now we are told buy those lesser chips when Intel's 18-core would be a better fit for my needs if there is no 16-core amd hedt chip?

So do you yet see the problem? I have not moved my workloads to Linux, otherwise that might be an option. And I will not force the change just for this.

If M$ fixed the issue, then that might be worth something. But until then, and until proven, I do not recommend the 2970/2990WX to anyone unless it is very specific programs and workloads or on Linux. I've seen nothing in the past year to change my mind, even though I also do not recommend $2k for Intel's 18-core. Half that price changed that stance.

 

First increased prices, then throw compatibility out the door... Welcome to the New AMD World. Once you're warm ( bygd opp din consumer masse - built up your consumer mass) you want more. Nothing is changed in the Gready (Tech) world.

Nice. Upgrade to old You get really a warm feeling in your Heart of this. Aka made the best out of the worst. AMD would thank you. So they can get rid of their old inventory.

 

At considerable increase in complexity -- that would have required different parts in the same family to interface to different chips (and then what would you have done if you wanted to upgrade to hypothetical 48/64 TR chips?).

Geekbench leaks are irrelevant from a product perspective. They are not promises. I'm still waiting for someone to find an actual public commitment on the part of AMD to carry TR4 forward. So far people have cited leaked slides and highly unofficial benchmark results.

Finally, let's use a little common sense here -- if AMD were looking to boost chipset revenue, would they deliberately do it on the backs of a small group, or would they do it on a much larger group (mainstream users)?

 

That's too bad, you seem to have reasoned yourself into a dead end with this. I was trying to be nice and cheer you up, but if you insist in wallowing in defeat, there's nothing more I can say that'll cheer you up.

It seems a shame to ignore 2 perfectly good upgrade CPU's with more cores that for many applications will be a large % improvement over the 1950x. Dwelling on what doesn't work ignores the larger percentage of what does work.

And, Windows may continue to suck just as much with higher core count Zen 2 ThreadRipper 3's, and Intel HEDT CPU's, and Linux will remain the best option for getting full value from high core count CPU's.

With prices dropping on 2970x/2990wx's they are far more affordable than ever. Maybe you'll come around later. I hope so.

 

I know that they make them appealing to me, but then again I dont ever pay top dollar for near anything. I live in the used market.

 

Robert Hallock answers questions about 3rd Gen ThreadRipper and the 3950x, starts at 07:00:

Special edition: AMD talks 3rd Gen Threadripper and 3950X | The Full Nerd
PCWorld
In today's special episode we are joined by AMD's Senior Technical Marketing Manager Robert Hallock to talk about 3rd Gen Threadripper launch details and Ryzen 9 3950X.
Streamed live on Nov 7, 2019

 

This isn't about cheering me up. I disappeared off of here to clear my mind and reappraise the situation. As I did, I restated clearly why people were upset, why AMD promising longer compatibility for TRX40 as a response is even dumber (because of the tech changes in 2021 and a failure to understand the violation of consumer expectations now isn't just about a long lived socket, rather it was the word Zen would last to 2020; consumers don't care if it is a 2-year platform, they just want to know up front the life span; then painting themselves into a corner for 2021 is the DUMBEST THING THE COMPANY CAN DO, and yes, presenting it as long lived, if they don't pull that BS back right now, they are going to seriously fork themselves in 2 years), why the alternative offerings are insufficient, and why not just leveling with people is dumb as hell.

Then you have rlk pushing a legal argument on whether or not the company could be held liable in court for misleading consumers (yank), further harming brand goodwill in the process (if you are right on the substance, shut up, it doesn't need repeated; this only further pushes people like me to dig into old statements, and I'm darn good with research, which I've held off on to this point). Hell, even you point to power delivery, which I called awhile ago it being a VRM issue for the change. This means they damn well knew a new MB was needed back at CES. WHY NOT LEVEL WITH CONSUMERS? Or last year with the MEG Creation? That is likely when the decision was made, last summer to fall. That would have allowed people planning upgrade compatibility to shift gears. There were so many opportunities. But fear of missing sales just burned goodwill on the portfolio. Just be happy this wasn't during Dozer days, because if the current lineup wasn't good, AMD would have a larger problem.

Finally, if those two chips were a worthwhile upgrade for me, don't you think I would have done it. For all the rants I've given ole!!! About the importance of memory bandwidth, do you think I haven't analyzed how my workloads could be effected by the switch to those chips? They aren't bad for some workloads. The one I'd want it for, it isn't fit for the job, but the new Zen 2 chip would be. It's that simple.

 

None of the original TR gen would look at Zen+ as an upgrade. Maybe if the 10 to 15% improvement were actually there but it was not. We all though forgave AMD and moved on as 7nm was around the corner and real improvements were in the winds. Well we all see where waiting has led us. This latest issue though will not make us do what we refused to do from the get go.

 

I'm still looking forward to it all the same

 

I don't believe I ever made any claims of a legal nature or said anything at all about liability. I said that I'm not aware that AMD made any claims about the longevity of TR4, only AM4. And I've found an interview with James Prior, Senior Product Manage for AMD's Client Computing Group for Desktop CPUs (and specifically on the Threadripper side) from 2017, who made at least two references to extended support for AM4, but said nothing about similar for Threadripper: https://hothardware.com/news/amd-confirms-am4-socket-support-future-ryzen-processors-2020

 

When new CPU releases come out they are often far too overpriced to make sense in upgrading for the performance uplift, so I wait for their price to drop - or less expensive used units are available.

Now that the 2970x / 2990wx prices are dropping that's why I suggested TR2 upgrades to you two now [before stock disappears]...AMD is saying TR2 is remaining in production to cover the range between $750 - $1300 - still price / performance competitive to Intel's HEDT.

Now the 2970x / 2990wx have aged with improved high core count Windows support, and the TR2 prices have already dropped hundreds of $, with the prices likely to drop a bit more - as long as production is continuing otherwise they will become more scarce, so that's why I mention it now - there's a window of accessibility with a lower price that might not last.

For 1st gen TR owners the 2nd gen TR's are the last available "upgrades", whether perfect or not they are the only game in town. When new - too expensive - now cheaper and the "last chance" upgrade.

If you were looking for a 3rd Gen 24c I would think a 2nd Gen 32c for less than the 3rd Gen 24c would be cool.

--------------------------------------------

After listening to Robert Hallock talk about the TR3 on TRX40 motherboard I understand why AMD didn't also make a duplicate set of TR3's for x399.

The TRX40 motherboard chipset offers 8 x PCIE 4.0 lanes to the CPU - with a new IO chip - at a fair price for the upgrade.

To offer a duplicate set of x399 TR3 CPU's with the old x399 IO chip onboard at the same price wouldn't be attractive even to those with x399 due to the large drop in comparable performance.

We'd be paying the same or more for an x399 "3960x / 3970x" version with less performance.

Given a choice - adding on the cost of a new motherboard to get all of the performance out of the TR3 upgrade / cost would make more sense.

The x399 "3960x / 3970x" versions would be stuck on x399 - you could't put that version in a TRX40 motherboard for an additional upgrade later.

Even if it made sense AMD would be doubling their development and production setup costs over potentially the same audience of customers, raising the cost for both TRX40 and x399 versions of the TR3's.

When you look at it that way it really makes more sense to jump to the new socket and require motherboard upgrades.

Anyway, check out that PCWorld AMD Special with Robert and early on he covers TR3, and without explicitly saying x399 versions of TR3 didn't make sense, it's clear they didn't make performance or economic sense to also release x399 TR3's.

Looking at TR1 vs TR2 the single core performance has a small bump in performance, but more cores is more cores - and is a good upgrade if your workset's benefit from higher core count processing. That's all I am trying to suggest.

If doubling the core count from 1950x 16c to 2990x 32c doesn't improve workload throughput then sure it's not worth doing for that application.

With a x399 version of TR3 the loss of performance from losing the memory channels, PCIE 4.0, and PCIE 4.0 lanes between the chipset and the TR3 CPU would reduce the single core workload performance improvement and all we'd end up getting is the benefits from more cores going from 1950x 16c to 3960x 24c or 3970x 32c.

Then we are back to not seeing much improvement from the upgrade - unless you also moved from x399 to TRX40 to get the full performance potential of the TR3 upgrade.

We need the whole TRX40 system upgrade to see the full benefit of the TR3 upgrade.

 

ThreadRipper / 3950x thoughts...

Threadripper 3000: AMD's Victory Lap around Themselves!
Moore's Law Is Dead
Published on Nov 7, 2019
Threadripper 3000 is expensive, but it’s not your only option. There are some overlooked gems out there right now for both gaming-first people and professionals. Either way this is a victory lap!
1) 0:08 Yeah, it’s expensive – but I warned you. Upgrade now!
2) 2:00 Why AMD is still increasing margins.
3) 3:25 24-core Threadripper for under $1,000.
4) 5:20 The 3950X is actually perfect for creator-gamers.
5) 7:15 AMD is now 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place for creators.
6) 8:37 Final thoughts on pricing and what’s coming next year.


An Update on the AM4 Platform & AGESA 1004
Submitted 4 days ago by AMDOfficial Official AMD Account - announcement
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/dtgutp/an_update_on_the_am4_platform_agesa_1004/

" AM4 Platform Updates
AMD has recently released a new AGESA to manufacturers, version 1004. With over 150 changes, this is a significant milestone release in the development of the AM4 platform. We wanted to share some background in support of our release and particularly in advance of the AMD Ryzen 9 3950X processor launch on Nov. 25th.

Also..."if you have an older Ryzen CPU and have been waiting for a major AGESA release: this is it!"

Spoiler: Details...

AGESA 1004 Schedule
AGESA 1004 is primarily focused on stability, and here are the essentials you need to know:

1. This is the only AGESA validated and recommended for the AMD Ryzen 9 3950X. Your motherboard must have a BIOS with AGESA 1004 for full and proper support.
2. It adds final support for "Eco Mode," accessible via Ryzen Master. Eco Mode brings AMD Configurable TDP (cTDP) technology to 3rd Gen Ryzen. With one button, you can run a 95W/105W model at 65W, or 65W models at 45W. This feature has been especially fun to use with the 3900X—12 cores at 65W! We know some of you have been very interested in a configuration like this, and now you can have it with the touch of a button.
3. AGESA 1004 is the "big one" that reunites the codebase for all AM4-compatible processors. Up until now, 3rd Gen Ryzen has been a fork of the mainline. So, if you have an older Ryzen CPU and have been waiting for a major AGESA release: this is it! This will allow motherboard vendors to unify their CPU and chipset support lists on one codebase.
4. As a major stability release, you're undoubtedly curious about the major changes. Here are some of the big ones:
   1. AMD X570 stability and compatibility with add-in devices.
      
   2. Improvements to interoperability of PCIe, USB, SATA, and device reset capabilities.
      
   3. Additional enhancements for PCIe device support and stability.
      
   4. Improved system stability when switching through ACPI power states.
      
   5. Improved POST/boot times. This will vary by motherboard.
5. There are also two performance enhancements: improvements to fastest core utilization, and further boost frequency optimizations for the AMD Ryzen 9 3900X.
6. Because of the size and complexity of AGESA 1004, and the extensive regression testing required on older motherboards (unified codebase), please expect the QA and release schedule to take a few weeks yet for older motherboards. For newer motherboards, like AMD X570, releases have already started to hit the web over the past 2 weeks.

In summary, lots of goodness coming in AGESA 1004 and we look forward to hearing your feedback. Thanks for reading—We really appreciate it.

Pr etty cool Epyc server...Love the Fan Spin-up...

128-Core AMD Epyc Rome Server Tear-Down, ft. Level1Techs
Gamers Nexus
Published on Nov 12, 2019
In this video, we work with Wendell from Level1Techs to tear-down one of the world's fastest computers: A 128-core Epyc build with support up to 4TB of RAM.
This AMD Epyc server is a dual-socket configuration in a Gigabyte chassis with capacity for up to 4TB of memory, 24 NVMe drives, and plenty more. The server has numerous world records and is semi-overclockable, and in our video, we'll take it apart (as much as we're allowed) to look closer at the base components of this monster server. These cost tens of thousands of dollars to configure, mostly depending on the expansion devices chosen. It's probably the highest-end system we'll have in our video set in some time.

 

gonna have to correct you here, other point need to be considered where they are testing water and is very likely to be the case. precisely the point of going after a small group who has money and willing to spend lots for an expensive platform, the perfect group to pull this on actually.

this goes through, mainstream is next.

not so much that, its how much he'd have to spend for a such a small upgrade. if i was in his position and a 2990wx cost only few hundred this would be still be a decent upgrade. 16-32 cores, tiny ipc and frequency bumps, sell old cpu so new cpu cost even less.

definitely still sucks can't get that 15% ipc and power efficiency though. lower temp = higher clocks so more performance to be squeezed.

 

Well you are more than welcome to purchase a 2970wx or 2990wx, we will leave them on the market for you.

 

When will 2990wx cost a few hundred? When it's even more EOL? And how much will he get for his 1950X?



As I said... Help AMD getting rid of their old inventory just mean they found the the golden egg "how to do it next time". See... Hold the mouth closed and only open the wormhole when the release is here.

 

This is why I hop they eat the mistake, so it will not be repeated. If they get away with it more reason to repeat the behavior next time too.

 

I believe you said that you were going to find the promise that AMD would maintain compatibility on TR4 through 2020. Have you made any progress there?