AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

On the first point, that is why Intel created Kaby Lake-X. That is a quad core with the same socket as Skylake-X, to get you on the platform with hopes to upgrade to 6, 8, or 10 cores down the road. That chip is expected to be the low $400s.

Meanwhile, to clarify, the 4C/8T is being priced to compete against the 6600K/7600K, although having twice the thread count. Now, if it has more power than the 4c/4t 7600k due to extra threads, but is cheaper, while still not having the power of the 7700K, they will capture a huge portion of the market, especially since 6 and 8 core upgrades are available. It becomes the no brain budget buy.

In other words, AMD is pricing to compete against one step down from Intel's top chips to capture more market. You pay less, get more than from Intel at that price point, you capture huge amounts due to price/performance matrix. It is pretty ingenious.

Now, if there is zero headroom, you have a point, considering most can hit 4.2 all cores on a 6900K. But, if framed as more performance at the price of Intel's 6-core, so focusing on the comparison of the 6850K instead, then AMD is the no brain decision. If you are looking at a six-core as a gamer, then comparing that with the 7700K and 6800K on performance and cost makes sense, but extra cost cuts are needed to make this a better choice, as reflected in expected prices discussed above.

So, saying it is compared with i5s and i3s isn't exactly true. It is pricing to compete with step downs while giving better performance at that price point to capture large market share.

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But here is the thing, by picking 6800k over ryzen, you are trading multithreading for single threading. Which for the gamers, its not a bad pick.

If I am a pure gamer, I would pick a 7700k without question. If I need anything for productivity, I am looking at 6900k and up. If I need a hexacore, I am looking at the 400usd 6800k. Sure, Ryzen can destroy the 6850k but the 6800k already does that. People who need 40pcie lanes is gonna get the 6900k in the first place.

Ryzen will probably fill a void between 6900k and 6800k. I doubt it can compete with 6900k clock per clock.

 

Well, the show in December begs to differ (although some reports say the 6900K was knee capped by using dual channel instead of quad channel ram, and all other numbers come from early silicon and platform). Even if slightly under on IPC, it has a place.

Plus, the pricing is reflective of pricing previously seen on AMDs GPUs.

As to multi threaded vs. Single threads, this is where they are capitalizing on Intel's marketing over the years, pushing they have more threads and work better. Intel has capitalized on misinformation on what is best for what uses for years.

As to what you pick, if you get within 10% of performance for 50% of the price of the 7700K, freeing up $100+ to spend on a better video card, you may forego getting Intel's best in division for more benefit elsewhere. So, even though you may make the choices you stated before, that doesn't mean the whole market will. Or if talking the 8 core, that frees up hundreds, which goes to potentially getting an sli/crossfire setup or a good nvme ssd. In fact, to optimize the build on a budget, it doesn't make sense to follow your statement.

So, try thinking of this in that context.

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4c/8t version from AMD for about 300 vs. Intel's 4c/8t today does not make sense at all. Not every person upgrade their hardware and rather buy brand new. No one knows how the performance will be with a later chips + chipset. The Price difference is all too small to justify skipping Intel. And we know Intel will hit back.

 

But, 4c/8t at $150. Depending on performance, would you give that a look?

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I probably would not have gone for the cheapest build. Everything depends on what you want or your use. But half the price against 7700K should tempt a lot of people who otherwise would have chosen 4 core K from Intel. But not for $ 300

See..
US $309.99 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core-...GHz-LGA-1151-91W-BX80677I77700K-/391685219289

 

Think of those building 7700K and 1070 systems. Going to the AMD (if it overclock well and has good IPC) gets you closer to a 1080 (or AMDs new offering). But we like performance and have purpose, so we may weigh it differently...

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Hence I said "what you want or your use". But that said... It must be a real reason to jump off from Intel. 300 isn't good enough. And same if the performance is still almost equal for both with 4c 8t.

 

I still want to see how AMDs overclock. If the new design fixed their old issue of lots of heat over stock clock or not. With Kaby getting in the 5.0s for desktop easy (5.3-5.5 on water cooled), it really has to shine. But, we'll know better after seeing the benches and tests...

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I would definitely give a Zen/Vega based notebook consideration, especially if the price was say 300 to 500 cheaper than an Intel/Nvidia variant. Especially if it was an actual Ryzen desktop cpu. Have not been in the desktop market lately, and do not foresee myself to be in the near future, but would be very exciting to see some competition for a change. The last AMD system I owned looked like this.

 

With the changes in notebook currently (mainly graphics), I'll wait till it settles down. I have considered selling my current setup for a Ryzen 8c/16t, but I'll wait for benches and OC information. If not worth it, I'll upgrade to a 7700K.

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Nice that Amd finally push a bit on Intel
Core i7 7740K Use Google translate https://www.cpchardware.com/intel-prepare-la-riposte-a-ryzen/

"Core i7 7740K . It has 8 MB of L3, with a base frequency of 4.30 GHz (100 MHz more than the Core i7 7700K) at the price of a significantly higher TDP (> 100W against 91W). The Turbo frequency is not known, but should logically be 4.60 GHz"

As well read http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/in...ke-core-i5-7640k-and-i7-7740k-processors.html

"Intel also is trying to move coffee lake forward and introduce 6-core processors, but is not clear when coffee lake will become available"

Edit: https://www.techpowerup.com/230422/...nch-to-prompt-reshuffle-of-intels-cpu-line-up

Ryzen will help us!!! Finally the Nail in the BGA coffin!!!



Edit: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/am...ces-at-taobao-with-28th-feb-availibility.html

"What however is interesting is an availbility date on the 28th or February alongside a ¥ 1999.00 pricetag, which translates to 275 euro and 290 USD. The chip is listed at 14nm and yes, that 4.2 GHz turbo clock frequency is mighty interesting, as it does seem 200 Mhz higher then expected"

 

AMD: Sorry, there will be no official Ryzen drivers for Windows 7

 

AMD Ryzen R7 lineup of 8-core 16-thread CPU Prices Revealed

AMD Ryzen R7 1800X
"They start with the AMD Ryzen R7 1800X . This is the flagship processor and it has has 8 cores with 16 threads and is assumed to get a Boost frequency of 4.00 GHz. The boost frequencies are not confirmed, but the indications we have seen the past few weeks would state a 4.0 GHz Turbo and 3.6 Ghz base clock. No further data was revealed. Now keep in mind (if the perf is close) a similar 8-core Intel CPU would cost you about 1,200 euros, the cost for the flasgship Ryzen R7 1800X processor would be 599.99 euros. These are unlocked (multiplier) processors."

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-ryzen-r7-lineup-of-8-core-16-thread-cpu-prices-revealed.html

 

" AMD confirmed that it has tested and validated Ryzen on Windows 7, but that it won’t officially support the OS. It puts to rest the suggestion of a recent translated report from Computerbase that AMD would reverse its stance and ship Windows 7 drivers for Ryzen."

So, it's tested and validated on Windows 7, but that's all.

I hope that's enough

 

But there will have to be some kind of release for those chipset drivers if there's going to be any hope of it running Win 7, correct?

 

So far that's not been true for Intel Kabylake, the generic drivers work fine, and benchmarks are showing that the performance is the same or better than Windows 10 on Windows 8.1/7.

So far no direct interference by MS in function...

Let's hope that continues.

 

Kim Stevenson's exit from Intel hints at problems in the PC business

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3167...tel-hints-at-problems-in-the-pc-business.html

 

Wow, Intel are gonna s**t themselves when they see how much they're gonna have to drop the prices of their CPUs - and maybe the people who bought Intel CPUs recently too (I'm one of them!)!

 

Also, some have said that the 7740K will be on the larger, enthusiast socket (that it is Kaby Lake-X), not LGA1151. If that is true, then it is a non-issue. There have been mixed reports on time of release.

Further, some have suggested that the 6 and 4 core versions of the Ryzen chip are just disabled core versions of the 8 core that did not pass certification, which may be born out if the 6 and 4 core variants have lower multipliers than the 8 core flagship. Another thing to keep an eye out for (although, this could wind up like the 3 core Phenoms that could be unlocked giving full access to a crippled core). Just more food for thought.

 

7740K is the new Kaby lake-X. Aka the new socket. But nice Intel finally getting competition Very needed Hope AMD can sell some of these new chips before Intel is on track again. More sales the better

 

You realize that this depends on actual people buying them, right? If you, your friends and everyone else rely on "someone else" to do the buying, we'll end-up in even bigger mess than we are now.

 

This is compounded with expected price cuts from Intel which may undermine AMD success. If the flagship can reach 4.4-4.6 on an AIO, thereby beating the 4.2-4.4 overclock average on the 6900K with that cooling, I'm in without a question (planning on a water chiller, meaning 4.6+ on an 8 core when my everyday OC on skylake, currently with an aio, 6700K is 48/47 would be worth it).

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I my self was about to build PC when I saw that zen coming in few month. If zen will have good single thread performance and will be cheaper than intel's i5 K's that will be my choice to have in PC. I just hope amd won't go for performance by increasing core/threads number but by increasing single core performance.

 

@tgipier , @Papusan - Better info on pricing. $490 for the flagship:
http://www.techspot.com/news/68099-amd-ryzen-prices-revealed-no-windows-7-support.html

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AMD have been gone so long it's hard to imagine being able to have a choice of CPU.
What I'm liking here is it's throwing a spanner in the traditional core line up of Intel. If these puppies can pull decently above 4ghz and rival IPC, then count me interested.
I'll let 2 channel memory slide any day of the week for more cores at a lesser price.

 

I agree. Faster core speed (stock) and 8c/16t at half the price. If it does well enough on OC, it will be my next build...

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I still want an AMD APU with a high end integrated GPU. Would be nice to have decent gaming power in a small form factor without need for a dedicated GPU. I know dedicated is the best route, but for small packages, an on-die GPU with it's own dedicated fast vRAM would be a welcome addition.

 

Well, they were saying the new APUs will be powerful. Plus, there is a chance, due to hUMA, that some of the HBM can act as a 4th cache level. Also, considering they are now using a tile basis, similar to Nvidia, it should be quite nice. At one point, long ago, I read it would do like 4TF in the APU. But we'll find out more later (all APU products will be second quarter or half)...

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The only thing I am not liking is the lack of Windows 7 "official" support. Another company folding from the "nazi" tactics from Microshaft.
All hail Windows 10 malware edition, and it's soon to be glorious pay to play, and use. Still somewhere around 50% of desktops running windows 7, you would think AMD, and its dismal last decade, would want the extra sales from this market.

 

They mentioned it is validated, meaning it will run. My only question is if it can run the new instruction sets that it has, or if it is limited to what amd supported on prior chips for the general cpu drivers and chipset drivers. I plan on benching the **** out of it on multiple OSes, so I'll find out (at $490, I'll get a binned chip no matter what). 7700K is out, 1800X is in (or the flagship, if that isn't the flagship). Checking out boards, but so far it is either Asrock x370 taichi with 16 phases and a 24+8 power to the MB, the crosshair vi hero (all Asus plans on) with 12 phases digi+ and 24+8+4 power to the MB. Need to take another look at the GB Aurous board and MSI, but power delivery was what held the board back with the cannard pc review, making only 4ghz on all cores possible. So, we'll see soon...

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So, the MSI x370 Xpower gaming titanium has only 10 phases, but supports 4000+ on ram (The Asus official spec isn't in anything I've read, but likely 3733, same with the asrock taichi, but the z270 taichi only supports 3733+ officially). Considering 8 cores, 16 threads and only dual channel memory, pretty sure it can use all the speed it can get! I'm hoping that there isn't going to be a trade off of either memory speed or core speed (if so, I'll go with the core speed, then overclock the ram with tighter timings)! I'll post the Aurous info in a minute if I can find it...

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So, the Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming 5 Aorus board has 10 power phases and 24-pin atx, 8-pin EPS. Cannot find the ram speed, but if it is like the z270 version of the motherboard, then it will support 4133+ DDR4.

This means you have a choice, 1) more MB power delivery with Asus using 24-pin atx, 8 pin EPS, 4 pin atx, with 12 phases, 2) smoother power delivery with 14 phases, but only a 24-pin atx and 8-pin EPS, or 3) limit to 10 phases, with the same 24 pin atx and 8 pin EPS, but 4000 officially supported on ram for msi or 4133 for the gigabyte board (which the z270 version of the board costs a mint, more than the Asus maximus ix formula).

So unless Asrock plans on creating an OC Formula version of the X370, I'm leaning toward their Taichi board or the Asus board, which seems like it has the highest power delivery...

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Definitely looking forward to the notebook versions of this. The 6-core 12-thread part is advertised to have a 65 watt TDP at 3.7 Ghz boost, I'd imagine it would work well on the beefier notebooks that support desktop processors.

 

First Ryzen benchmarks are in. https://videocardz.com/65825/first-amd-ryzen-7-1700x-benchmarks-are-here

 

Slow ass ram and no discussion of the other chips settings (like boost) or ram used, which makes this difficult to compare...

Edit: @Atma , @Papusan - but it topped five of eight tests against the 6900K (integer math, floating point math, sorting, encryption, and extended instructions (SSE)), and 6 of 8 tests compared with the 5960X (losing on prime and physics, with compression being better than the 5960X). They don't know if boost was used, but the chipset prevents overclocking. Also, we don't know if the 6900K or 5960X were using quad channel (which they likely were).

On single threaded performance, only the 6900K and 7700K beat it out of the selected comparison machines (6900k beat it by around 3%).

Also, this is passmark performance test, meaning other, more used benches could show variance. After the factors I stated above, and this being an ES equivalent to the 1700X (The top chip 1800X has an extra 200 mhz base and boost), it seems like this could be a performer (even though the prime and physics are low)...

Edit 2: looking at the amount of ram, the 5960X had 16GB of DDR4, but no mention of DIMM count. The other had 73631mb, so I'm wondering if ecc, which is a handicap...

Edit 3: Sorry, I used this page to compare tests. As you can see, unless you know all settings, passmark is really, REALLY useless!!!
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7-1700x-389-8-core-cpu-benchmarks-leaked/

At least this third edit, wccftech article gives more to compare, whereas the videocardz article looks like a sandbag hit piece as it shows no information on any of the other machines compared. Keep your eyes open!



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@Papusan , @Atma - So this is what is missing on the videocardz site:

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/736399-ryzen-benchmark-leaked/
https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/amd_ryzen_7_1700x_cpu_benchmarks_leak/1

 

I'm waiting to see what the production model can do on a good motherboard in an enthusiast's hands. I have (tempered-been-disappointed-before) high hopes.

 

Overall, look at the wccftech article. That gives a good idea. Considering the flagship will have a little better binning, so long as it has plenty of overclocking headroom, with good ram and board (see posts above), 4.2-4.4 should be easy, whereas 4.4-4.6 on aio would be gravy (if possible)! Need to look into power boards, etc., for my proposed setup, potentially. Just less than 3 weeks left!

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With a few weeks left, I am going to invest in my first AMD build in over 7 years.

 

I haven't had one since Athlon xp, but that lasted awhile. This build, I'm hoping to do well and then just rotate chips to rack up points on hwbot!

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My last AMD build straight out of my Newegg order history 2005.Brings back fond memories.

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  • 1 x AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice Single-Core 2.0 GHz Socket 939 ADA3200BPBOX Processor
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  • 1 x G.SKILL 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model ...
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  • 1 x Thermalright XP-90 Multiple Heatpipes CPU Heatsink

 

Just to think, I was going to buy a fellow member's 6950X build a couple of days ago. It is a very nice setup but I couldn't pull the trigger knowing that Ryzen is only weeks away. I did tell him that Ryzen will cause the prices of some Intel processors to drop and it looks to true.

 

Not a bad build! I had about similar, but had the thoroughbred chip. It was the last machine I built with my dad (before college). Had it running at 2.8ghz at first, later 3.2-3.3 on air. I still have the chip somewhere, but not the motherboard...

Glad you didn't (see the wccftech article comparing base speeds). Once we see overclock reviews in a week or two, then you'll know your next build. For price and performance and to support amd to stay afloat, I have no reservation on helping this time!

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So, it just dawned on me, pressure needs put on Intel for the XTU benchmark to be spun off to allow benching AMD. Now, XTU is prime based, and if it is to be believed the info above, these chips suck at prime, meaning Intel can reign supreme in their own benchmark. But since hwbot.org leans so heavily on XTU (which I personally hate), it either needs to find a way or give it less weight and presence in competitions (a point I'll make in the hwbot forums in a couple days). Requiring Intel for OC competitions when AMD finally stepped up to bat is favoritism. Now, obviously the 7700K will likely stay king of single core (and gaming). Not disputing that. But I don't want to sell my z170 rig if they make me have it to compete. It's a catch 22 if you ask me....

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This close to Ryzen's launch and AMD is still being mum on specifics. We already know that Intel is staying with the 14nm node for another generation. LGA 2066/X299 won't be here until at least August according to rumors (I personally believe Intel is going to release it before then to combat AMD's momentum). So what does AMD have to lose?

 

You answered your own question, AMD is (hopefully) finally stepping up and XTU is an Intel utility. I think it will be best if you and other hwbot competitors push hwbot to be a bit more neutral. I am sure once Ryzen is released and again hopefully, does well, the market alone will force hwbot's hands.

 

There is one fact you forgot to mention, NO ONE HAS SEEN IT OVERCLOCK! What you do is show performance and build suspense. The fact they haven't allowed disclosure yet, I'm betting that will be shown about a week before launch. It is the Jones effect. They want you to see the numbers and buy on impulse. Either that or the OC numbers suck and they are trying to hide it. But considering it overclock itself and a couple boards mentioned you can turn off power limits and let it scale to cooling, I'd say they are waiting for that to boost impulse purchases.

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That's where I was hinting at. While it is quite normal for companies not to disclose OC numbers - Intel and the 7700K being able to hit 5.0+ - it is better to underpromise than overpromise, AMD is not in a position to hold its cards so close to its chest. I could be just paranoid and Ryzen will OC like a champ. My 6900K can do 4.2/4.3 and I am hopeful that it could be matched at a better price.