Acer 5930G upgrade potential?

Hey all.
Ok ...
I have an Acer 5930G in my possession and was thinking on upgrading it's systems in a few months (this time period would be more in terms of ram to 4GB) or possibly a year (for larger upgrades).

Now here are some basic specs:
Chipset: PM45
gpu: 9600m GT GDDR3
cpu: P7350
ram: 3GB PC-5300 DDR2
hdd: WD 250GB 5400 rpm

Was wondering on the upgrade potential in this puppy.
I have XP SP3 x86 and Vista X64 OS-es.
I use XP for the primary stuff and backward compatibility, while Vista for 3dsMax 9 x64.

Now ... first aspect I'm interested in is the RAM. The chipset is the newest one, and according to it's specs, it's capable of addressing 8GB RAM.
The problem is that the laptop itself only has 2 RAM slots.
So I was wondering if it would be possible to install 2x4GB sticks inside (when 1x4GB stick for laptops become much more widespread and drop in prices of course)?
I figure that having 8GB under Vista x64 will benefit Max the most since I have a tendency of working with scenes and meshes that contain large textures (and I found myself without RAM in more than one occasion when working with my extremely heavy mesh of NX-01 that has 1.78 million polygons and high-res hull textures ... overall it's VERY detailed).

The chipset support is not the issue here to my knowledge, it's the BIOS.
Is Acer's latest BIOS (1.23) capable of recognizing 8GB ram if it's installed in 2x4gb config (PC5300 of course), or would I need to wait for them to release a BIOS in the future that would support such a scenario?
I tried sending them an email on this subject, but alas got no reply (quite possibly because of the holidays and all).

HDD ...
How much will the prices drop exactly in about a year and which hdd would be worthy of getting in that time period (primarily out of the 7200rpm ones)?
Sure, I could wait 2 years until SSD drives become more mainstream and drop in prices, but I'm talking a year down the line for now (which might prove to be enough of a transitional period, but I'm not too sure if it's enough time for high capacity ssd's that produce proper performance to drop down in prices enough ... or is it?).

CPU ...
Would it be possible/viable to upgrade this one with a quad core cpu in about a year (mainly thinking about 3dsMax uses here which would certainly benefit from a quad core cpu)?
Given the fact that the P7350 (the one I have atm) is using 25W and a Q9100 45W ... how much of a temperature increase are we talking about exactly?
I forgot ... I think I noted in the Intel cpu compatibility thread that Q9100 is compatible with my chipset, although do correct me if I'm wrong.
I use Zalman NC-2000B which reduces the temps by 10 degrees, but that is mostly evident when under full load.
In idle mode (with or without the Zalman) the cpu averages at about 41 deg C.
So if a Q9100 was installed inside the laptop, coupled with a new thermal grease ... what kind of a temperature increase are we talking about?
Or would a new heatsink also be advisable?


GPU ...
While this component is not that big of a deal to be completely honest as I find it will likely be good enough for the next year and a half (possibly 2 and a half) ... what kind of upgrade potentials this one may have?
Taking into consideration we are talking about an MXMII slot card ... is it possible there will be a future MXMII card (about 2 years or more down the line) that could outperform the 9600m GT GDDR3 significantly?
I'm very aware of the problems that laptop gpu's are hard to come by and aren't exactly standardized, but at the same time 2 years from now is also a long time in terms of technological evolution/development.

One last thing:
Please refrain from posting responses similar to the likes of: 'do you REALLY need to upgrade', 'it's not possible', etc ...

This thread is to see the upgrade potential of the laptop in my possession.
Even if the thermal issues are potentially an issue, state as to why this is so, don't exaggerate and post potential solutions.
As a side note, to my knowledge the 5930G is a newer Gemstone series of laptops from Acer that don't have bad cooling issues as the previous generation.

Post away, and thanks in advance.

 

ram. some mobos artificially restrict ram capacity, so there is a chance that 8gb won't work on your laptop. i don't know about what kindof programs your running, but most people are happy with 2gb on vista.

hdd. no idea, heard about a 500gb 7krpm wd comming out though.

cpu. tdp=\=power usage. it's the maximum amount of power the cooling system in a computer is required to dissipate(taken from wiki). i speculate the real world power usage of a 25w tdp cpu will be about 20w underload.
dunno whether your mobo will support a quad, they have a differently pinned socket AFAIK

gpu. 2 years down the road, yes there will be a much better mid-range card. and yes you MIGHT be able to upgrade. but after 2 years, your laptop will be completely obselete and you will be recommended to just get a new one.

 

I'm mostly aware of all of the things you stated.
What I'm wondering about the RAM for the most part is whether Acer has or could released a BIOS that will support 8GB ram if 2x4GB are installed.

It seems stupid to limit the ram capacity artificially though (through BIOS).
If the chipset can support such a capacity, then Acer should have the decency of releasing the bios that supports it (for now though this subject is an open one, so I guess we shall see what the future holds).
As for what kind of programs I'm using ... 3dsMax for 3d visualization and creation of CG animations for the most part.
When working in large scenes with meshes containing heavy polygon/faces numbers, but most of all high-resolution textures, they have a tendency of requiring large amounts of RAM.

In terms of CPU, I was more concerned about the temperature output differential between a 25W cpu and a 45W cpu, and if putting a quad core cpu would be possible (from another thread that mentions the Intel cpu's compatibility, the PM45 chipset was apparently placed as compatible with a QC cpu [Q9100] as it utilizes the same socket and FSB among other things).

Oh I'm fully aware that my laptop will probably be obsolete in 2 and a half years time ... I was just thinking on upgrading it a little in about 1 year and giving it the extra boost it deserves.

 

well regarding qc temps. i can only say it will get hotter. NO ONE can comment on how hot, since we have no info on the heatsink in a 5930g, no one on NBR own a q9100 AFAIK to report temps. i googled up and found the q9100's power consumption is about the same as a x9100. not sure whether your laptop's heat sink can handle it.

 

bumping up the tread.
woul like some other opinions as well if possible

 

Nope sorry, a Q9100 would not work. Quads just don't work in any laptop. They require a whole lotta different things and can't just be stuck in to a 15.4in laptop. The best you can hope for is a T9600 or 800.

GPU upgrade? Nope. The only other card you can possibly upgrade to is the 9650M GT, which only offers 5-10% increase in preformance anyway.

First thing you need to do; get a 320GB 7200rpm HDD.

 

I second what plasma said. A Q9100 wont even work in your system. It has a higher power draw and a different core architecture which the chipset in your laptop cannot understand.
So the best cpu you can get is the T9800/X9100

K-TRON

 

8GB of RAM is going to be insanely expensive. I suggest upgrading to 4GB, since it is inexpensive and the extra 1GB will definitely help you with those large programs.

I second the hard drive upgrade; a 320GB 7200RPM drive, specifically the Western Digital WD3200BEKT, will give a very noticeable performance boost. If you can wait a month or two, 500GB 7200RPM drives should appear on the market soon.

 

On the cpu issue ... the chipset in question is PM45 (centrino2).
I was under the impression the Q9100 was deemed compatible with that chipset, and that the 'only' issue essentially is a higher power draw along with the higher heat production.

I was inquiring about the ram about 6 months to a year from now, not NOW (when 1x4gb sticks are extremely expensive and very rare).

The hdd seems like a viable option yes, but if I'd upgrade it then I'd choose a higher capacity one (such as 500GB 7200 rpm) ... or a quality high capacity SSD when the prices drop.

 

Ok.
Let's put some things into perspective, shall we?
I mentioned that my chipset is PM45.
After some extra digging, I confirmed that QC cpu's (most notably the Q9000 and Q9100) ARE compatible with my chipset because they are on the same socket P (478 pin) configuration like my P7350 cpu.

So, it would appear compatibility is not an issue.
The only potential problem is a higher power drain which is by 20W higher compared to the P7350.
Right ... so, hypothetical situation: if one would replace the P7350 with say Q9100, by how much would the temperatures increase approximately (see the idle temps in my initial post)?

RAM is again a tricky subject.
The chipset itself according to Intel specs is capable of addressing at least 8GB RAM.
The only issue I see here is Acer's BIOS potentially limiting the maximum RAM to 4GB (because Acer states this laptop ... the 5930G, can have a maximum of 4GB ... even though the chipset is obviously able to support more).
Keep in mind though that this laptop comes with 2 RAM slots, which is probably why they implemented the restriction to begin with (actually I think it stems more from the fact that Acer had issues using full 4GB ram up until now [which was fixed through the new bios releases] in their laptops) ... but also, what will happen once 4gb sticks hit the market and drop in prices?

The hdd ... already covered that part.
Mechanical SATA 5400 or 7200 rpm seems a good option, but a high capacity SSD would also be a great replacement.

GPU can be replaced provided of course we see a MXMII slot compatible card in the future that significantly outperforms the 9600m GT gddr3 (I'm talking twice as much at least).
Present day mid-range gpu's like 9650m GT are not worthy of switching to because gains would be minimal (aside from the fact the said card was made in a smaller manuf. process which produces less heat as a result and operates on slightly higher frequencies).

Question ... what's with all the negative comments that it's : 'not possible' and jumping to conclusions that have no basis in fact when in fact it's the opposite?

Honestly now ... laptops are catching up with desktops, and most likely, I apparently have an example of a laptop that can be pushed a bit farther with specific upgrades (given enough time for the prices to come down for the said components of course ).

 

as i already said in my post, no one can possible answer that question. way too many assumptions and and too little information.

no disputes over that, agreed.

what did you expect? imo if the laptop does indeed support quads, why doesn't acer market it that way, which is why we assume the laptops mobo can't supply stable wattage for the quad.

catching up? maybe, if your look back to the last century. still a long way to go (i7 and those hd4870x2's).

 

Don't you think it makes sense that Acer or any other company for that matter doesn't market the support for quads because they DON'T want people to upgrade?
In the end, certain upgrades can cost quite a bit less and can be much more worthy for a person of specific needs compared to buying a completely new laptop altogether from the same company.

Companies themselves say it's not possible all the time (primarily because they have idiots who aren't that technically savvy), yet you have people on this site alone that were able to upgrade their components (in other laptops of course) without issues.
Plus of course, the companies don't like it when you do things on your own ... they could even do the upgrade (if it's doable) for you (with a 'small' fee charge of course).

Laptops are catching up as far as I can tell because the i7 will probably be available for laptops around the second half of 2009 or sometime in 2010.
Sure, QC mobile cpu's are very expensive at the moment, but let's face it ... the prices will drop faster than the software people commonly use will become complex enough to use it in completely.
It's still a more than adequate upgrade for applications such as 3dsMax (provided of course it won't cost a lot of money to upgrade and if nothing noteworthy in terms of newer technology is available).

 

upgrading the cpu voids warranties afaik. and the bottomline is, a motherboard adequate for quads (power with more phases) is more expensive than a standard mobo, acer will be nuts to increase it's cost for no reason.

the only time when a company says a component is never upgradable and they're wrong is when the matter was regarding gpus.

just like you said, mobile versions of i7 will definitely be out early 2010, and make all our laptops obselete. an i7 920 stock can beat a qx9770 stock in some tasks, the former even ocs better, so down the road, it's just better to get a whole new laptop.

 

Upgrading the cpu does NOT void the warranty (as far as I am aware, it doesn't in Acer laptops ... mine included ... which is the issue if you bring in the laptop for repairs that don't revolve around the upgraded parts).

Oh I'm not saying that Acer should put more expensive motherboards for upgrade purposes (unless they designed the laptop around the 'upgrade' aspect) ... what I am saying is that the chipset by itself is obviously compatible with a better cpu, and as such the mobo is quite possibly capable of providing the power to feed it.
The question we are faced with can the cooling solution handle it adequately and just how much would the temperature increase be (which you already stated is very hard to quantify blindly).

There were cases when company employees have stated (via customer service or specs themselves) that upgrades are not possible, and when people check for more detailed specs of the chipset and the internals of their laptop, they discover the opposite is true.

I'm not disputing the fact that an i7 would be superior to a present day quad core ... but we also have to see just how well will that translate to laptop versions and how much of an increase will it be.

 

didn't know about that. but most of the times it would void the warranty, then again you can just swap your stock proc back in if something went wrong.

i doubt it. mobile quads are not exactly mainstream i'm sure you know.
intel says the gm45/pm45 support both ddr2 and ddr3 memory, but how offen do you see a laptop with support for both? manufacturers are free to alter the specs of a motherboard. another example would be that some laptops restrict memory addressability to 4gb or even 2gb, and we all know even pm965/gm965 can have 8gb of ram.
forgoing quad support to cut costs seems very logical to me.
having said all that, it's still possible that acer is nice enough to build a genuine pm45 according to intels specs, only cutting support for ddr3 memory, have a go at it if you must.

as with the i7 issue, the top pre-nehalem chip is the qx9300, i doubt their will be a new ex edition comming out. it's about the same as a q9400 or q9450, just for comparison.

 

Indeed ... I'm fully aware of the hardware limitations that are usually placed on the motherboards so they support only one thing and not the other regardless of the chipset being compatible with it, but this was/is mostly done with what kind of RAM is supported and just how much of it can be placed onto the motherboard.
Becuase DDR2 and DDR3 don't share the same slot, I can understand to go with the cheaper solution and not implement the possibility to change to DDR3.
RAM quantity on the other hand is a BIOS limitation for the most part given the fact the chipset is obviously capable of supporting more than 4GB ... and Acer isn't losing anything if they write a bios later on which allows to take more than 4GB in 2 sticks combination (if anything, they are creating a better perceptions for their existing customers).

CPU's to my knowledge were not limited in this fashion (especially if they share the same socket, pin amount and FSB) and would run fine despite the difference in power requirements (although obviously they will be a larger drain on the battery)

 

try ocing a quad on a budget p35 vs a premium p35. they will have very different results. what i'm saying is in essence your trying to oc a cpu to 4ghz on crappy mobo, when it can only do 3ghz stable-> the mobo is just not capable of supplying stable votage and current and you will get bsods or even worse consequences.

 

Not likely given the fact that a slightly older generation cpu that operates on faster clock (about 500 mhz more) per core (2 cores) and draws 35W for power works fine in 5930G.
Or should I say, another version of 5930G was made that essentially has identical specs sans the cpu which is faster, but draws more power than a P9500 for example (a T9500 cpu to be exact).
Or are you going to tell me that Acer is utilizing mobos on that one that provide a more stable voltage?
Possible, but not likely given the fact that every other component inside is identical.

As I mentioned before, the power is not an issue if the slot type/fsb/pin numbers are identical.

People were upgrading from Celerons to Core2Duo's without issues (which would essentially translate to the same transition from C2D to QC [that even has identical pins/slot/fsb]) in terms of power requirements and experienced no problems (even more, the C2D's were much faster in terms of core clocks compared to the Celerons).

The differential between a P7350 and Q9100 for example is the wattage, the fact that Q9100 has 2 extra cores and has 200Mhz increase in speed per core.

I'm not disputing the possibility I could be in error, but at the same time, given the fact that the chipset supports it, and past examples show that if a cpu is compatible with a chipset, it will likely work.

We aren't talking about overclocking.

Plus I again checked some things on Intel site to see compatibility list between the PM45 chipset and various cpu's ... Q9100 is supported ... not only that ... but QX9300 appears to be the maximum supported.
http://ark.intel.com/chipset.aspx?familyID=35515

 

The 5930G won't take QCs. It needs a motherboard refresh to support those. In fact, the 5930 will never see or feel a QC.

45W TDP CPU's are meant for 17"+ notebooks. The Penryn QCs need a different socket P', which supports both DCs and QCs, since the QCs have a different electrical pin-out. And, the 5930 BIOS doesn't support QCs anyway.

If you're much into TDP and all, try out a P9600..

 

it supports 35w tdp chips, we all know that.

not really. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o....22Merom-L.22_.28standard-voltage.2C_65_nm.29
celerons and c2ds have similar power draws as you can see.

i know, but the principle is the same, overclocking requires higher and more stable voltage than normal. same goes with system requirements for a standard tdp c2d and a qc with higher tdp.

also, wikipedia states that the it might not even be pin compatible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...2Penryn_QC.22_.28standard-voltage.2C_45_nm.29

 

it seems you won't take no for an answer. go ebay a q9100 and try it out. just make sure the seller have some sort of return policy.

 

No, as I said in my earlier post, I always keep an open mind to the possibility I could be in error.

It's a simple matter of confusion because on one side Intel states that Montevina chipset PM45 (which is the one I have) is compatible with the QC that also has a same fsb, same pin layout, same socket, and on the other it turns out the compatibility is not actually there because some of the pins in QC function in a different capacity (electrical one) which is not compatible with the 5930G's socket despite that everything else is identical.

So which one is behind this hardware limitation? Intel, Acer, or both?

 

i guess it's just how laptops work, don't we all wanna see modular barebones.