Am I burning my laptops with too many downloads or video processing?

So, my last two laptops have died (motherboard and hard disk) after about 2 years. But problems started even at 1 year and both had a HD disk replacement by Samsung and Asus.

Both were cheap range, 400€, T4200 and 2020M processors with 4GB RAM. But run very fine and fast for the price, and I was downloading stuff all the time while doing many other things and later processing movies with Handbrake taking 1-2 hours time where the CPU went to 90% and the temperature to 60-70º. But I always controlled temperatures and it never went higher and kept running fine while doing other stuff.

So, my question is if cheap laptops get burned with video processing and lots of downloads for a matter of temperatures and stress.

Any idea?

Thanks

 

Well, I would agree that heavy use, especially in higher temperatures inside laptop, will wear out HDD faster and those don't last much over 4-5 yrs even with moderate use, anyway, but properly designed MB, CPU and other components should not be affected that much, as long as they operate within specifications. But cheap computers sometimes are not designed properly and most common shortcoming in my experience is power supply. Over years I had 2 power supply failures in desktops and one in laptop, due most likely to power supply being too weak for given system. I do not recall ever having a failure of CPU, GPU or any other component, besides HDD and power supply ever. There were cases of faulty solder joints in some GPU or drying out electrolytic capacitors on MB, but those had faulty components and were doom to fail even in low usage. I wouldn't worry about it too much, maybe replace HDD with good quality SSD and just enjoy, most computers outlive their usefulness and anything can break.

 

Any device under continued high loads will burn itself out quicker than normal. If you are running 24/7 at 90% it will take its toll but there are quite a few here that run 100% on a 24/7 basis for years with SETI and the like. So long as you are staying within design tolerances there should not be an issue. Truth be told, as in the old saying, you get what you pay for.

 

Thank you.

But why is the hard disk failing first of all?

Besides, it is not that much load I put on it. Let's say an average 0f processing a 3GB 720p movie into a smaller 1GB one and adding another audio track for my language with MKVmerge every 2 days or 3, and it takes around 50 minutes at 90% CPU. So, it is more downloads all the time (and uploads always on too) than high load and CPU or temperature, which are basically at normal levels always.

If I buy an SSD Samsung Evo 256 GB will it last longer and process faster?

Thanks again.

 

Did you monitor the HDD temperature as well, it's possible that the HDD is running hot even if the CPU is not. A HDD at 50 with high I/O will definitely die faster than if ti was running at a comfortable 30 C.

 

Yes, I constantly check the HDD temp with HD sentinel and Speccy.

I check all temperatures many times since I started having problems 3-4 years ago with that first Samsung.

I think it's the motherboards. First, the HDD get broken and are replaced, then the temperature remains high and end up burning the motherboard.

I suspect they don't put new HDD but used ones.

 

HDD is mechanical, bearings, electrical motors do wear, also very tight tolerances and also they are sensitive to heat (expansion), magnetic fields etc. If you download 3GB file that's 3 GB write cycle for HDD, then you recompile, another 3GB, then Windows does it's own thing swapping memory etc add another 1-2 GB or more, then background defragmentation, maybe indexing and you can have 10-15 GB worth of writing in a matter of hours, all at elevated temp, of 45-50C. There are industrial HDD, that can run 24/7 for yrs, but expensive, consumer HDD are more fragile.
Samsung 840 evo experienced slow downs when reading old data and so far Samsung failed to fully fix the issue, there is newer 850 evo, more robust, but too new to guarantee it doesn't have any problems, so many people will advise you to not buy Samsung evo drives. After saying all this, I just bought 850evo msata myself, fully aware of 840 evo issues and possibility of problems with 850 evo in future. To me the fix (in case it gets affected) is easy enough, rewrite old data to get full speed again, but you would have to make that decision yourself if you want to take a chance. There are other SSD drives that seem to be working well, but I don't have much experience with them to recommend any, SSD forum has real experts, maybe ask there. Just for the info: 850 evo has 5 yr or 75 TB writes warranty, which roughly equals to about 40GB worth of writes every single day for 5 years, but 840 evo for example survived 10 times as many in some testings.

 

Okkkkk, now I understand. So indeed I overuse my cheap laptops.

If I buy a new one with an i5 and better GPU would it last longer?

 

Buy one with appropriate cooling and you will be OK.

 

or upgrade to a good / cheap SSD like the Crucial MX100 and be done with it and experience a performance level out of this world, it will blow that HDD out of the water and won't break the bank plus is much more reliable

 

This and This!

 

you havnt mentioned what hard drive temps you was getting with sentinel.
61c and above is not good for long periods of time and 65c or above will defo kill it off a lot quicker. round about 55c on heavy duty tasks are fine.

 

It is not only a matter of drive temps - it is also a matter of workflow. A notebook drive is not designed to be on 24/7 or even close to that. Nor are the temps safe at 50C or higher (I used to freak out if my HDD's temps would break over 35C...).

An SSD may help here (though I still believe the platforms in use are too low end and therefore cheaply built), but the recommended options would blow the budget of your 'budget' systems out of the water. (SSD recommendation: 480/500/512GB SSD or larger, 30% overprovisioning, SanDisk Extreme Pro HIGHLY recommended with Samsung 'anything' series to be avoided like the plague, atm).

A better option than these low end notebooks will be a NUC with 16GB RAM and either an mSATA, 2.5", or M.2 SSD setup for your workflows.

Yes, it will cost more right now. But remember; you buy the monitor and keyboard/mouse once and use it over multiple generations of systems.

The 4"x4"x3" NUC will offer much higher sustained performance, probably less noise and definitely less power requirements. And won't overheat or be as stressed as the platforms you are pushing to their early graves now.

See:
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX55758


Buying an SSD for your current systems is like buying Pirelli's for a Toyota Camry. The car (system) won't go any faster, but the steering response ('snap' on the computer) will be noticeable. Is $300 to $600 (depending on the SSD capacity you buy) worth that in 'snap' alone? No.

Get a new platform and O/S (Win8.1x64Pro - w/free upgrade to Win10) and as much RAM as you can afford to take full advantage of any SSD you buy.


Remember the simple formula: CPU+RAM=Work done.

For performance, the storage subsystem is nowhere to be found in that formula... and in reality the storage subsystem doesn't affect overall platform performance significantly either (down in consumer land workflows). The proof is that HDD are still in widespread use: on a desktop especially (large 3.5" drives are faster than notebook drives any day of the week), once a system is booted (with 16GB RAM or more) the storage subsystem in almost any workflow is irrelevant. And would be even more so on your workflows.

But, the CPU+RAM combo does affect every other component's performance directly, including the storage subsystem.

All I'm cautioning is; Don't buy 'snappiness' when you're really chasing performance. A balanced system is what performs. There is no magic SSD pill to transform your system (especially the T4200 based one) into a true performance beast.

I recommend that you buy/build a better balanced system (as suggested above) before you spend any more money on your not so budget (anymore) setups.

Good luck.

 

kuno5, I advice disabling swap file in advanced windows setting, disabling hdd shutdown in power settings, and limiting your torrent download and upload speeds to avoid disk overload. If HDD temps climbs over 50C, you should take further action. Usually it happens due to other components running too hot, so repaste them and use cooling pad if repasting doesn't help. Another good option is to place your HDD to ODD bay if your notebook has one, to dramatically decrease its temperatures, and put an SSD in its' original place.

 

Thank you very much for your amazing help to all of you.

I have learnt a lot.

 

..did you ever have a chance to check the S.M.A.R.T. readouts?

I mean, I've heard of high temperatures eventually resulting in demagnetizing the plate faster, and causing partial data-loss, that leads up to a total fail. Or that incredibly high temps would hasten mechanical failure on the reading heads, and so on. But not that it just suddenly will cause full stop. Instead, what kills laptop drives tend to be, in no specific order, bumps while hdd spins/reads/writes. Low temperatures before booting up - kept it in the backpack outside, plugged it in and it mysteriously started struggling, condensed moisture, rapidly expanding plates and metal, etc. But I've never heard of a hdd, not even a super-cheap toshiba standard drive, actually croaking because of high temps.

So honestly, unless the entire chassis was glowing, or the hdd was somehow isolated so it wouldn't vent any heat.. I'd bet on motherboard or bus contact failure instead. A lot of manufacturers choose glued on contacts, for example, for ports that are never removed. Like for the sata bus connector on the motherboard (while the plug you fit the hdd in is solid). You find it in the expensive macs as well. So that's a possibility. That the motherboard design has misaligned contacts.

There's also a chip for the southbridge that tends not to be cooled at all on laptops. Just sits there gathering dust. Likely tends not to be a problem on minimal use. But sustained traffic will make that chip hot. So if that breaks, you end up with instant failure.

How exactly did the failure happen, anyway?

 

I agree with this.

I think a constant 24/7 moderate operation is actually better than powering on/off the laptop several times during a day.

 

In the same vein, and incandescent bulb tends to burn out when being switched on, so leaving it on all the time will maximize the lifetime, albeit with greater energy cost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

In general, I too agree with this. But notebook drives (just like incandescent bulbs) have short life expectancy. Leaving either on 24/7 may give the longest absolute life, but if you're not in the room (or using the computer actively) this does not give the user the longest possible life from the system. This is purely ignoring heat issues, etc. - just considering on/off cycles.

Thankfully, both the bulb and the notebook drive is expected to power cycle at least a few times a day over it's expected lifetime. Taking advantage of this fact without over doing it (like powering the system up every 10 minutes, for example) will give the longest usable life.

When in use though; keeping the notebook's fans and vents clean and free from dust and debris, using an effective notebook cooler (especially when pushing the components to their max) and re-applying the TIM as needed to keep the cpu and gpu as cool as possible will go a long way to maximizing the lifetime of all components.

 

This is all really splitting hairs. Let's be honest, storage drives are relatively inexpensive. Whether you have it turn on/off repeatedly or let it run 24/7 is an insignificant difference over the life of the component. I would expect to replace a drive within 3-4 years in which time performance and power consumption of any new drive you install will likely be significantly better, and inexpensive.

 

Thanks for all the last replies.

But it is not just the hard disk, it's been the motherboard fried too.

In the first one, the Samsung R519 with T4200, the hard disk was first replaced by Samsung, only to get fried the motherboard just when I was processing a movie with Handbrake. The temperature went too high suddenly, at around 80-90º,and I could notice it in my hands, but since it was almost finished with the job, I let it finish thinking that it had a mechanism of switching off when necessary.

Wrong, it got fried and never started again. Totally dead. I had to buy another laptop, the Asus X501A 2020M. (However, I ended up finding a used motherboard in eBay England that worked and I am now writing from it in this very moment).

The Asus got slowed down all the time, never overheating, with momentary freezings and very annoying bad behavior in general, so I sent to it to repair once and they returned it without changes, only cleaned the fans and Windows reinstalled, which helped a lot and worked fine for some time until it got sick again. I sent it again and this time they say they replaced the hard disk (the HDD counter was at almost zero). Worked bad soon again and finally it started to get very hot all the time and this time I decided to return it to Amazon as it was still under the 2 year warranty, because Asus said it was my fault because I had installed Windows 10 and then the warranty is missing (as-sholes).

 

This is strange because I also got a R522 Samsung (which is almost equal to the R519) and it never fried. But I have stressed it a lot over the last years and it overheated lots of times, causing automatic shutdown at least a hundred times due too overheating either of the CPU or GPU. Even temperatures of 125°C were reached, but it never burned or fried anything (one could smell the heat though). Maybe the temperature sensors of the R519 or the emergency shutdown didn't work correctly on that predecessor :/

 

As tiller said, a desktop would suit your needs much better (when considering price/performance/durability). Combine that with a lighter laptop to carry with you and you have a great combination. Unless you do video processing on the road, go for it.

On the other hand, Sandy brigde based workstation business laptops are rather cheap these days. For example ebay.de has 8560w i5 under 300e and even i7 models starting from ~400e. Those are good platforms to build your own (add ssd, double/quadruple the ram, storage hdd in caddy etc) while total price will still be a fraction of similar new machine. That won't be light and battery will not last long either but there's quite a good kick when needed and it's portable Similar Lenovo w520 or Dell's equivalent are also worth checking.

 

I have run both my D900F and P370SM3 into the ground with CPU usage and GPU usage each. And the D900F lasted a full 4 years before dying due to voltage issues and my P370SM3 is showing no signs of problems after a year and a half. And I run my systems harder than Mr. Fox with his benchmarking XD.

I'd say it's the fact that they were lower end machines and the parts were likely more of an inferior quality. Lower end laptops have a HUGE tendency to do extra skimping on their hardware... be it the storage or the RAM or the boards or screen... whatever there is. Most of those cheap laptops aren't designed for any kind of solid workload, even though the hardware is indeed fine with it by spec. I'm sorry your machines had to go that way though. It might also just be bad luck.

 

I often have my laptop(s) running 24/7, including torrents, without any problems. I share the belief that on/off cycles stress HDDs much more than continuous use, that other members already stated. I also use all the optimizations described in my earlier post.

 

I know!, that's what puzzled me. The temperature theoretically could reach 100º without burning, but as stated in this thread, it's probably a matter of cheap components all over plus maybe being refurbished defective laptops or something that they sell cheaper in these good offers.

Anyway, I'm expecting a new baby for today at 15:00h, and it will be yet another Asus, this time the small brother of the last one dead, the 14" X401A, which again is 2020M and all same old specs but a bit smaller than the X501A 15.6".

It's a matter of money, I don't have much. I want it to be very light first of all and all I need power for is only to process movies with Handbrake, nothing more, which can be done perfectly with the 2020M in 45 to 60 minutes, so I prefer this cheaper model (300€) for 2 years again rather than a more expensive one.

Desktop I don't use, I only use the laptop mostly in bed and my lap as I am a handicapped person with bad health and that is why I need it to be portable and light first of all. I can't sit too long at the desk.

I actually found today this Asus VivoBook S400CA i7 3537U 14" for 560€ and I'm having doubts... An i7 sounds wow even when it's a Sandy Bridge, but gets 7.1 points at cpuboss while the 2020M gets 6.5. I have never had an i7, or i5 or even i3... So... I might return the 300€ one and spend almost double to have an i7 for once in my life... but I don't thin I will do it, it's just spending 260€ difference only for the movies thing, which I honestly don't need... (hmmm thinking.... tempted by the devil...)

http://www.amazon.de/Vivobook-S400CA-Ultrabook-Touchscreen-schwarz/dp/B00CHM7BYM/
or
http://www.amazon.de/Lenovo-Notebook-Hybrid-Graphics-Betriebssystem/dp/B00HRPXLXY/

A million thanks to all of you for your amazing help and information.

 

kuno5, I believe for such a price you could get something with proper performance and battery life both, and of much better quality - if you review your brand preferences.

 

CPUBoss should be ignored. You honestly would do far better asking us about things.

Also, if it interests you, check my mobile i7 CPU guide. It's in my signature. Should shed some light on current gen intel i7 processors, and should clear up a lot of misconceptions you may have from being on other desktop forums and/or listening to people like Linus who think 2.9GHz on an i7 4710HQ isn't throttling (both XTU and HWiNFO64 will report it as throttling)

 

Really? But the X401A is 1,8 kg (1,5 without the battery) and I haven't seen any laptop for this 300€ price with these specs and weight (and I love it so thin in white color).

Please tell me if you know something better.

cpuboss is not reliable? It's the site I use for a quick comparison when I look for a new laptop. How can I compare them otherwise? If I look in Amazon and check 100 laptops I cannot be asking here for each processor, and trust me that it takes a lot of time to learn about all of this, that's why computers professionals are paid.

I am very little demanding as you can see. I want it light, slim, cool, cheap or affordable, and capable of processing with Handbrake.

My brother is a computers engineer and also most of his friends. I know how demanding you become when you are a professional or a very top passionate of something. I don't even ask him anymore, just not to bother him with questions, we all abuse computer knowledgeable relatives or friends... until they get tired of it, and also because I know he's going to push me to spend more because everything is rubbish to his eyes unless it is very top notch )

Many thanks again.

 

kuno5, I suggest considering a convertible. E.g. you could get Lenovo X220t used, within $400 shipped, or something similar. It is much more comfortable to use in bed compared to a common laptop, and it will be noticeably faster and better built than EUR300 Asus. I must also point out that moving your laptop around while downloading stuff certainly doesn't improve HDD health.

 

Sadly the notebooks you buy for 300 euros are rubbish whether you like it or not.. Save up some money and get a proper one which costs 500-600 at least... Then you won't be complaining about laptops dieing after a year...

 

I replied in the quote.