Anyone have issue with liquid metal paste drying out?

I'm trying to figure out which paste is better, Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra or Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut. I've read around several places online. Some say there isn't much of a difference. Others say TGC is better. However, I've also read some people having issues with CLU drying out after 3 or more months. (There are a few videos on YouTube.) Has anyone on here had this problem or seen it themselves?

 

Happened with me but after almost a year or more, 3 month means those systems has issues or they didn't repast with the right way.

 

I had remnants of conductonaut sitting exposed to the air for almost a month. I don't know how you 'test' for it being dried out, but it was as liquidly and as hard to clean as ever. I may just get bored and put a normal drop somewhere and test that.

Conductonaut that is touching copper "can" dry out, if you call that, but that's more or less just a reaction to the copper. Temps do NOT change because of that, but if you remove the heatsink for some reason, you have a very hard material remnant, and you have to completely wipe the copper clean and smooth (do not sand it, just a few minutes of hard strokes of Alcohol and a cloth will work, then keep wiping it until most of the dark stains stop coming out onto the cloth. (it does NOT have to be perfect; remnants of the stains will not affect heat transfer), then reapply.

 

Thanks for the feedback! I was surprised when I read comments about it and saw videos on YouTube (one person had it on his GPU for 3 months and checked...it was still fine....the other person had it on his CPU for 6 months and said it had dried out in the center.) I can post the links if someone wants to see the videos.

 

I used Conductonaut in my M15X for the CPU (920XM). It worked wonders and allowed me to OC beyond what any standard paste allowed, but dried out pretty quick in my case (~3 months if I recall correctly). Some say air pockets cause this but my heatsink makes perfect contact with the die. I am on standard paste now and don't plan to go back for the time being.

EDIT: In response to Falkentyne, mine dried out and affected my temps significantly. The sudden increased temps is what prompted me to inspect the paste in the first place.

 

Seems like a classic case of non fitting heatsink to me.

LM will only dry out if there is a gap between the heatsink and the die. The more significant the gap is, the faster the dryout/pumpout time.

 

I have two Conductonaut drops exposed to the air on the shelf for a week now and they're as liquid as ever. Not sure how yours dried out, @kosti .
Did you tin the copper surface with conductonaut also? It's best to coat the heatsink contact area because part of the LM will react with the copper.

 

Yes, I tinned both the copper heatspreader and the CPU die as per the instructions. I spread it with the included swabs. When I removed the heatsink, there were a few (maybe 4 or 5) spherical blobs of the stuff still on the die which had not dried out, but they were tiny little blobs here and there on the die (about 1mm or less in diameter). The rest of the paste looked like it was absorbed by the copper like a sponge. Some paste was also absorbed by the CPU die surface as well because it was also stained with a film of that stuff.

There was also some paste that had seeped over the edges of the die which had not dried. I think that if air contact was the culprit, that portion should have dried as well. I suspect something else at work. Maybe it had to do with my extensive overclocking and benchmarking cycles that I did in the first few days (I did many 10-15 minute runs of Prime95). After a few weeks of normal use afterwards, I left the laptop off for almost 5 weeks because I was traveling. When I returned, and after a couple of weeks of normal use, I noticed the temps shoot up rather abruptly which prompted me to inspect the paste.

 

This is the first report I ever heard of Conductonaut drying out. Everything else was stuff about Liquid Ultra and their changed formula.

 

This happened to me last year during the summer so maybe I had an older batch that has since been improved.

 

Grizzly Conductonaut hands down. I've used CLP and CLU since day one and ever since TGC came out I've put them all to the test.

I only use TGC now because it is simply the best.

I've never had any issues with TGC and all my laptop(S) are all running strong.

For those seeing strange behaviors of LM in general are experiencing the following:

1. Having good tolerance (contact between the die and HS/copper plate) is very important. If there is a gap, dust will collect in there and cause the LM to gump up, where the dust acts like a binder. This is often mistaken for the LM drying out, which is not true.. Metal doesn't dry out.

2. The surface of the copper plate on the HS has micro pores and when it is hot, the LM in a way absorbs into those micro pores. This is evident when cleaning off LM off of the copper surface as you'll find it to have a silver stain on it, no matter how much you try to clean it off with a regular cloth etc... This is not the LM elaborating, rather it's just getting absorbed into the copper and reacting to it. There's a lot more scientific stuff going on for sure, but this is the what's happening in simple terms. When metal heats up, it expands....and so does the micro pores.

It is highly recommend to use some pressure paper to ensure that there is good contact being made, before using LM.

 

after 85° LCU and Conductnaut start burning (oxiding, evaporate, solidify etcetera), but their efficiency still remain if heatsink has a proper quantity/contact of paste on it.
so look at max temps ^_^

 

At extreme temps and when the LM is under those conditions for a longer duration, it's the LM reacting with the copper.

The word that I've coined for this in past posts was: "Liquioxidization."

Note: Although it sound cool, it has nothing to do with what's really going on, but it gets the general idea of the LM reacting to the copper across.... at least I hope lol.

 

I'm a little confused...I see comments about using it on the CPU. What about the GPU?

@iunlock So, you're saying the stain left is a sponging effect on the copper and any glops/"dried out" spots are from outside materials (like dust) mixing in? Has this been proven or more of a theory? I suppose I agree. It doesn't make a lot of sense for liquid metal to be able to dry out. (That would have significantly changed the plot of Terminator 2!)

 

I've only had liquid ultra dry out on me once, and that was because i used too thick of a thermal pad to cover CPU MOSFETs, so it left a gap in the heatsink. I currently have liquid ultra on all my laptops in my signature, none have dried out (except for that one time, in my m18x r2)

 

Here's an older thread discussing liquid metal paste. The OP is very knowledgeable on this stuff so I suggest you have some coffee handy because there's a lot of technical info to digest

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-compatibility-with-copper-heat-sinks.800890/

 

How ironic I was just reading that and discussing this with one of my friends. Yea it's a good run down in a scientific explanation. This validates what I had said above. Good stuff.

 

1.5 Years old Liquid Metal (Conductonaut) before I removed it and put in my New 7700K. Was good as new and would still have had a good life if I didn't change the cpu.

From my testing of an old batch Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra. Fix the fit and enjoy your Liquid metal for minimum 2 years. But nothing will last forever... Even on good heatsink. Thermal cycle (cold - hot - cold - hot will affect liquid metal in the same way as any thermal paste).

 

Sounds like I should go with Conductonaut then! Thanks everyone!

 

Good choice.

 

Yes liquid metal pastes separate out and harden. Where the liquid metal contacts the copper is where it tends to harden the fastest. I've found this happens faster with high die pressure. I see degraded performance after a few months. This is why resellers should never sell laptops with liquid metal. liquid metal is something that the end user must know how to maintain.

 

@Khenglish
@Donald@HIDevolution would like to have a word with you, lol

The proper way to avoid this is to make sure both surfaces have an even flat mount to the CPU/heatsink (meaning no Alienware Tripods), and then to "tin" the heatsink with LM first. That way that part will be absorbed first and not what is on the CPU. Yes you're using a little excess, but that's nothing nail polish and a foam dam barrier won't fix.

Also Coollaboratory has apparently changed the formula consistency for their LM for the worse; newer versions to be more runny and have caused some people problems with "dryout". Conductonaut has been faring much better.

Also this user had no degradation after 1 year of conductonaut.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...al-grizzly-conductonaut.799343/#post-10411462

 

Hmmm, I'll open up one of the systems that I repasted with the new LM to see whether it has dried up - it was repasted circa six months ago. Temps still seem fine but in the interest on science I'll take a look over the next few days. The system is just used for the workshop, so the system could probably do with a cleanout of all the gunk anyway - will snap some pics of the CPU and heatsink while it's open.

The CL was runnier and as a result the Conductonaut was easier to apply - but this doesn't seem to have effected the thermals so far.

 

When applied and sealed correctly, as we do, what you say here is simply not true.

 

I cracked open the system and it looks pretty much the same consistency as when I applied the CLU. Temps hadn't changed, which is also good. Was in a haste when I applied it and some of the liquid metal spilled around the two dies - doesn't seem to have moved which is good. Removed the overspill and the system should be good for another few months, until it has to be de-gunked.

 

Same for me... No temp degradation with (my 1.5 years old Grizzly Conductonaut. Everything worked well before I switched out cpu).

 

Hey so you guys can apply liquid metal to Razer Blade 15 laptops, but what product of liquid metal are you using? Do you have evidence or experience to know if the copper heat sinks will degrade over time with this applied to it? What is upkeep like? Thanks for clarifying

 

We offer Grizzly Conductonaut or Grizzly Conductonaut + Fujipoly Extreme Thermal Pads upgrades on the Razer Blade 15.

Regarding your concerns about the safety of liquid metal thermal interface material, yes applying anything metal conductive to a piece of electronic equipment has its risks, but we have a proprietary means of application to prevent leakage. Also, you can rest assured that any upgrades that we perform will be covered under warranty. Regarding its long term effects, we have been offering liquid metal thermal compound for over two years with no ill effects or reports of issues from users. On the contrary, we found liquid metal thermal material to be more effective than traditional thermal interface material over the long term.

 

Man I wish I had bought my Razer Blade 15 4K through you guys, instead I got mine straight from Razer. What kind of warranty do you offer as well? Next time...
Thanks for the fast response. I’ve heard more dangers about the liquid metal corroding the copper than I have with it sliding out of place, my hope is that’s what tape and nail polish would help protect.

 

Our warranty options are stated on the Customizer on our website.

Over time there will be some leaching (not corrosion) into the copper, but it is just discoloration, and has no impact on its performance, nor does it harm the copper.

 

It MUST be fully insulated and the pressure must be firm and solid without a warped heatsink.
Apply any liquid metal on an exposed (unused) copper heatsink, cover the entire surface with liquid metal (have it reasonably thick, not paper thin) and keep it face up (straight and level) in the air for 2 weeks.

After 2 weeks, ALL of the gallium will be totally completely absorbed into the copper, leaving the other materials without their Eutectic properties, leaving a completely hardened layer, even if you started off with applying a very thick coat covering.. That's because the presence of oxygen greatly exaggerates and accelerates the battery effect. Heat also accelerates this effect (gets higher past 80C), and the battery effect (copper-gallium differential) gets wildly out of control around 200C.

Keeping oxygen out and having firm, even pressure is huge in slowing down or stopping this effect.
Just having nail polish around the SMD resistors (to stop short circuits) is not enough to form an airtight sealed layer. Nail polish is fine on IHS delids (nickel ->gallium differential is almost zero, so this problem doesn't happen on LGA processor delids (between IHS and CPU core only), but you also need Super 33+ tape or another sealed insulator that also at the same time helps block air as well on direct die copper heatsinks.

 

But if you keep it airtight and carry it on a pressurized cabin it'll explode.

Someone did this with 33+ and using K5 Pro to form an airtight dam around the CPU and it burst during shipping (no physical damage done on device).

33+ is too thick for BGA cpu applications. So what I do is Kapton tape then apply a dam of K5 pro around the CPU package perimeter, but leave a small air pressure normalization gap.

 

If it burst, then it means the user used way to much LM. And more than likely it happen before the laptop had it's first cpu screw put in. (Speculations of course)