BLACK LIST. Adjustable voltage control/turbo ratio limits are locked out due latest Win Update/Bios

BLACK LIST. Adjustable voltage control/turbo ratio limits locked out due latest Win update/and or newest firmware update.

Please post your notebook/desktop model and what hardware, if this has already happened to your PC.

The basis for creating this thread.
Protecting your Intel CPU from Plundervolt attacks can ruin your overclock/undervolt

A couple of posts showing that the new cancer is real and already out...

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-1082#post-10977989


http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...r2-owners-lounge.829502/page-32#post-10977994

Spoiler: THE BLACK LIST - Notebook models with adjustable voltage control removed by the ODM/OEM

1) All G Series Gaming Laptops from Dell https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/gaming-and-games/sf/g-series

2) Microsoft Surface Pro 7 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-pro-7/8n17j0m5zzqs?activetab=overview

3) HP Elitebook 840 G6 https://store.hp.com/my-en/default/hp-elitebook-840-g6-notebook-pc-7wn99pa.html

4) Acer Predator Helios 300 (i7-9750H) https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/predator-series/predatorhelios300

5) HP Probook 440 G5 https://store.hp.com/in-en/default/hp-probook-440-g5-notebook-pc-6xa38pa.html

6) Dell XPS 15 7590 https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/cty/pdp/spd/xps-15-7590-laptop?~ck=mn

7) Dell Alienware m15 https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/cty/pdp/spd/alienware-m15-laptop

8) Dell Alienware m17 https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/cty/pdp/spd/alienware-m17-laptop

9) XPS 15 9570 http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-win-update-bios.831450/page-22#post-11012990

10) ASUS GX502 http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-win-update-bios.831450/page-23#post-11015240

11) Asus GU502 http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-win-update-bios.831450/page-24#post-11015438

12) ASUS GL704GW http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-win-update-bios.831450/page-25#post-11020492

13) Dell Precision 7540 and 7740 http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-win-update-bios.831450/page-12#post-11002674

14) Dell Inspiron 15 7577 https://www.dell.com/community/Insp...ottling-recent-bios-update/m-p/7621889#M87087

16) HP Zbook 15 G6
17) HP ZBook 17 G5
18) Surface Laptop 3
19) Hp pavilion 15-cx0056wm gaming laptop
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-win-update-bios.831450/page-28#post-11023414

20) Dell Latitude E7470 http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/laptop-battery-health-questions.832239/

21) Asus ROG Strix Scar III (both G531GV and G531GW) http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-win-update-bios.831450/page-29#post-11024211

22) Dell Latitude 7490 http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-win-update-bios.831450/page-29#post-11025429

23) ASUS Zephyrus S GX531GXR http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-win-update-bios.831450/page-34#post-11107901

Preview from the spoiler...

1) All G Series Gaming Laptops from Dell
2) Microsoft Surface Pro 7
3) HP Elitebook 840 G6
4) Acer Predator Helios 300
5) HP Probook 440 G5
6) Dell XPS 15 7590
7) Dell Alienware m15
8) Dell Alienware m17
9) Dell XPS 15 9570
10) Asus GX502
11) Asus GU502
12) ASUS GL704GW
13) Dell Precision 7540
14) Dell Precision 7740
15) Dell Inspiron 15 7577
16) HP Zbook 15 G6
17) HP ZBook 17 G5
18) Surface Laptop 3
19) Hp pavilion 15-cx0056wm gaming laptop
20) Dell Latitude E7470
21) Asus ROG Strix Scar III (both G531GV and G531GW)
22) Dell Latitude 7490
23) ASUS Zephyrus S GX531GXR

Sorted by brand...

Acer:
Acer Predator Helios 300

Asus:
Asus GX502
Asus GU502
ASUS Zephyrus S GX531GXR
ASUS GL704GW
Asus ROG Strix Scar III (both G531GV and G531GW)

Dell - Alienware:
All G Series Gaming Laptops from Dell
Dell XPS 15 7590
Dell XPS 15 9570
Dell Precision 7540
Dell Precision 7740
Dell Inspiron 15 7577
Dell Latitude E7470
Dell Latitude 7490
Dell Alienware m15
Dell Alienware m17

HP:
HP Elitebook 840 G6
HP Probook 440 G5
HP Zbook 15 G6
HP ZBook 17 G5
Hp pavilion 15-cx0056wm gaming laptop

Microsoft:
Microsoft Surface Laptop 3
Microsoft Surface Pro 7

 

Exactly what we needed. Thanks for making this thread. I just made a comment the other day that we needed a thread for a black list of companies that need to be boycotted for drinking the firmware cancer Kool-Aid.

Intel and Micro$lop are going to kill Intel and Micro$lop. Nothing like committing hara kiri in the name of "security" LOL. Man, it seems like stupid is just coming out of the woodwork. I thought the drama revolving around Spectre and Meltdown was just about the dumbest thing I'd ever seen, but this throwing the baby out with the bath water knee-jerk reaction to Plundervolt vulnerability takes the cake for the ultimate public demonstration of being a total retard.

AMD sucks, but it looks like it may end up being the lesser among evils. AMD CPUs (and GPUs) suck at overclocking, but so will Intel CPUs if they do this. A CPU with locked multipliers and voltage control is as worthless as the tits on a boar, so six of one, half dozen of the other, I suppose. We're all born with belly buttons and butt holes. No joy in that at all. I've never been interested in janky mainstream computing, so I'll probably just say to hell with computers. If I cannot have what I want, then I don't want anything. No point in spending my money on products that suck. They can kiss my butt. I can get cookie-cutter suckiness in a smartphone or console for a lot less.

I bet the whole thing is an elaborate and carefully orchestrated scheme to get people to buy new computers that are "safe" from the boogieman. If it is not something they invented for that purpose, they'll certainly be able to milk it that way.

Windows 10 is another example of a scam invented to trick people into spending money on crap they don't need in the name of "security" (also a lie). It didn't work, so they've had to kick it into Nazi-mode and resort to digital genocide to get the job done. I'm still using Windows 7, and will continue using it until it stops working, so up their nose with a rubber hose.

 

Great thread. Much needed.

Very much planned stupidity indeed. Corruption at its finest.

 

Well I hope that Dell just completely forgets about my Ranger then, it would be agood time for that. Not that I update my sBIOS past A14+ made by the community.

 

Great... Won’t be updating my laptop BIOS, not that I planned to but losing the ability to manually adjust voltage on an already hot running BGAbook is ridiculous. If this doesn’t get resolved I’ll likely be looking at the competition for my next laptop in a year or so. This ‘fix’ is an overreaction and feels planned more than anything. An elaborate excuse to remove end user tweaking and forcing upgrades.

 

Exactly. If this were a real danger, the PROPER solution would be a BIOS update removing SGX technology or exposing the option that allows it to be disabled. They could toggle voltage control on with SGX disabled and off with it enabled.

The way they are addressing it is totally unethical and calls into question the integrity of any OEM that makes this firmware available without a way to disable it or opt out.

All of my desktop motherboards and every @Prema BIOS have a menu option to disable SGX already, so it has all the makings of a hoax and a scam.

 

I modded my own motherboard BIOS to insert the older AE microcode for the 9900k (BE microcode is ok too) and windows update is disabled on 1909.
C6 and CA microcodes are horrible anyway for benchmarking. I don't know if CA disables overclocking or not. Not going to bother testing it with the VMware loader.

 

It will be a soulution for desktops. Worse if you spent your money on Jokebooks.

This is now worth nothing!


Intel right now.

The notebook OEM/ODMs will use it all for what its worth.

 

Well, the new firmware with cancer microcode does not seem to have hurt anything on my desktop. I rolled the dice and flashed the new v1.20 BIOS on my X299 Dark and everything seems pretty much the same so far. Other than the firmware team getting sloppy and leaving some Chinese characters in the legend/help section in some areas, seems like everything is OK.

https://forums.evga.com/BIOS-Update...1-Micro-ATX-2-113-Micro-ATX-122-m3013412.aspx

 

Apparently something got updated on my system, as my -185mV undervolt that I've used for several months, no longer boots into windows.
Interestingly enough, I got Win10 LTSC locked down, or so I thought with O&O10, all updates disabled through that app. (along with everything else)

Basically this happened;
I plugged in an rj45 cable to download a benchmark and noticed that SB Connect2 somehow got installed.
This can only happen when system searches for drivers itself, and that was disabled, as well as delivery optimization.
After a reboot, the system would no longer boot into windows. Removing the undervolt solves the problem

Last time I had this system connect to the internet was prior the plundervolt exploit. I'm not sure whether IME got updated or some other sneaky windows update.
All the drivers installed were stripped down versions that had no services or bloat attached (no auto updating)

I'll explore how great of an impact it had on the undervolt before reinstalling LTSC. And I'll have to make sure that nothing gets auto updated in the future, even with o&o10. Hopefully this goes away after formatting, as I'm not sure what to do if this messed with the firmware.

But what absolute nonsense to push this kind of crap without asking for consent or giving an option to opt out.

 

Thanks @Papusan , I didn't know anything about this - I'll be keeping an eye out for any firmware updates from my motherboard vendor, and I'll be thinking twice before blindly installing firmware....I need my CPU to remain overclocked!

 

Did you find anything in reliability monitor?

You’re welcome brother

 

See what I posted here... Windows 10 is a Satanic piece of _____ operating system.

They take liberties we don't even know about. Their behavior is tantamount to molesting someone that is in a coma and the person responsible for it is worthy of death by lethal injection or electrocution. They are unworthy of every breath they take.

 

Is it only the -185mV undervolt that is unstable now, or all levels of undervolt?

 

Want even more help with your drivers?

“Windows Update will automatically keep your drivers up to date, but if you’re having a problem, one of those optional drivers might help”

Microsoft Working to Move Driver Updates to the Settings App in Windows 10

Read also more about the failed OS in here...
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...nd-announcements.826887/page-31#post-10978296

 

What a disaster. 100% sure that Intel is shaking and in order to push the so called fix, they botch the whole UV and control from the end user. And yeah, M$ as usual pushing filth to the end users on Home / Pro to test as guinea pigs and then push the stable updates to the Enterprise editions. As if they care about any ounce of user control or even user knowledgeable enough to use their own frigging PC. However the Enterprises lock down the updates through a massive Workspace layer and Group Policy modifications and Administrator controls which from Win10 lacks for end user. We can't do shiz when the users are utter dumb about anything related to an OS.

I'm surprised on the previous page's post by @jc_denton LTSC botching itself up ? That's some next level mental torture. I was going to move to LTSC eventually but this is very bad...
We own nothing ?

Doesn't effect Haswell. Only SKL and up. And yep No use from going A14+ and infact downgrading from 22 to microcode version 17 will enable that Haswell bug.

But yeah quote from below..

LMAO !

Checking with OEM, haha Dell locks down sBIOS to what extent we know esp on Area 51M and they even made the AlienFX to UWP dumpster fire, as if any OEM cares. ASUS locks down rPGA sockets on Ryzen CPUs, MSI cancer NOS system. Forget that Intel's cTDP nonsense and BGA junk are also part of this mess, add the Windows "Modern Standby", Auto update .. ..



Protecting your Intel CPU from Plundervolt attacks can ruin your overclock, maybe

What a sad news, Throttlestop on BGA trash to K series and old CPUs.. which is used by so many users is going to die because Intel couldn't come up with a proper fix ? Damn it. I stayed out of AMD build this year only because of unstable BIOS they had and stupid clocks like Nvidia and extravagant pricing for Gen4 tax. If Intel is also going this route then the future looks very very bad.

This is an insult to Intelligence itself.

Thank you @Papusan for this. I hope many will see and become aware of this BS and make noise so that Intel must have to come up with a better solution instead of using a small screw driver, using a big rock.

 

It is difficult for them to respect our intelligence when they do not possess any.

 

Driver updates are turned off. I did noticed that when i opened up o&o10 it notified me that changes had been made, mainly "Disable automatic Windows updates (2 out of 2) was disabled.
Now this is interesting.

 

Do you use WPD in combination with WUB, Network connections as metered and O&O shutup10 ? As well always check Network connections is as metered when you connect to a new.

See also
StopUpdates10 — New tool to stop Windows Updates But will come with an disadvantage as unwanted task.

 

Didn't use WPD with o&o10, and it wasnt set to metered when it happened. I did try it now with WPD, and now you cannot toggle it at all.

 

How it works... "Disable automatic Windows updates (2 out of 2)"
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ws-10-without-it.780264/page-10#post-10835813

 

Intel IME also got updated from what I can tell, I had a stripped down 1923.12.0.1278 installed. But now device manager shows 1914.12.0.1256 installed.
-185mV wouldn't boot into windows, so I ended up doing a fn+d cmos reset. And at least it boots up into windows with my old settings including the -185mv undervolt. I havent tested stability but this update is not listed in either update history or reliability monitor.

Which is kinda nasty as it's using Intel Platform Update (IPU) that directly updates IME firmware.

 

It's the same, and don't only look at the installer package version http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/intel-drivers-updates.782418/page-40#post-10924911

 

Thanks bro @Papusan been at this since 4am, glad you caught it. I don't understand why a cmos reset seems to have fixed it.

 

Could be ram if you have it oc'd. It can be any thing. Don't forget take a look into reliability monitor once in a while. And be sure you know what Intel microcode version you run Don't forget close the door No need for e key!

 

Shouldn't be the ram, I did a complete cmos reset with removed battery when reverting to my cl14 3333 settings. This whole spectacle only began after I connected the system to the internet..


A little update, instead of not booting into windows at -185mV it's giving a random Clock_watchdog_timeout error. AFAIK its voltage related?

 

Yeah. Try -5mv less.

 

And why did Intel go nuclear with this?

If the exploit needs to tweak voltage at a fine and fast pace, just limit the slew-rate at something only 10mV change per 30 secs, with a set value at boot, so slower pace to find ideal undervolt, still works at boot, no more exploit..

 

Security. Some people use SGX. Some that use it actually know that it exists and do it on purpose.

Those that do not use it stand a 1:100,000,000 chance of someone using "Plundervolt" vulnerability to exploit their PC. Instead of requiring all BIOS updates include a switch to enable SGX and toggle voltage control for those that want it, the bright idea is to play Nazi with the majority and screw things up for everyone whether they care or not. Apparently, God went on vacation and left them in charge.

In other words:

 

Ok I'm confused here.
If you disable SGX in your BIOS, you won't have voltage control in windows (regardless of what you're using?).
Or is it just the firmware update that makes it stop working?

 

That's happened to me before. I set all the Windows Update stuff in O&O to enabled, then reboot, and then set them all off again - and reboot again (kills the Update Service).

You can do both O&O and WPD at once, but it gets tricky.

I'm using only WPD right now and that seems to be working.

After an Update is let through you have to go back and recheck the settings in WPD and / or O&O do that same reset thing, reboot, set it all again, and reboot.

 

The new microcode is intended to stop voltage adjustments. Most likely a fast fix. Intel can provide proper fix later with more work.

The big problem is the OEM/ODMs who doesn’t want put time into creating awesome.

 

No, the exact opposite. After patching a system with SGX enabled the voltage control will be disabled because SGX creates the vulnerability with voltage control. Or, so they say. Systems that do not include SGX are not vulnerable, so there is no reason for them to be patched with cancer microcode.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/security-center/advisory/intel-sa-00289.html

But, that is not current state. On a system with no Plundervolt mitigation firmware applied turning SGX on or off has no bearing on voltage control. I say the best solution is for Intel to require that all laptop OEMs use firmware to make the menu to disable SGX available in the BIOS. Problem immediately solved for everyone that doesn't care about SGX... just disable it. Since the day it was invented I have disabled it by default because I have no use for it. @Prema BIOS always has it available to disable and so do all respectable desktop motherboards.

 

I have no lockout on mine, so what does that mean?

 

Some HP laptops are the first ones being hit by this "new feature".

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...not-work-on-hp-elitebook-x360-1040-g6.262487/

Most users do not update their bios on a regular basis so most laptops will receive the Intel microcode update via Windows Update. Last year it took about 5 months between the time Intel released a microcode update to the time that Microsoft started force feeding the new microcode onto user's computers through Windows Update.

If an OEM allows a user to disable SGX in the bios, will the microcode update be smart enough to allow voltage adjustments? Maybe, maybe not. The microcode update only needs to set a single bit in a single CPU register to disable voltage and turbo ratio control. Will the microcode update check for SGX status before setting this lock bit or will it just ride roughshod and kill under volting for all laptops?

Even my Haswell might get caught up in this take down. Good medicine for all, whether you need it or not.

Here is a list of microcode updates that come to you via Windows Update.

Windows 10 - 1903
https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/4497165/kb4497165-intel-microcode-updates

Here are some links to similar information for earlier Windows 10 versions.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/4093836/summary-of-intel-microcode-updates

These lists include the microcode update revision number which you can compare to the microcode number listed in the FIVR window of ThrottleStop, to the right of the PowerCut feature. My Haswell still allows voltage control with microcode 0x27. The next microcode update after this, not so sure.

Think of this problem like it is a tsunami. It is nice and quiet right now but there are some big problems on the horizon. Many laptops and their owners are going to be screwed over when this finally hits.

 

And, if Linux developers are idiots of the ilk that share the irrational belief that "newer is always better" the same brain-dead procedural implementation of cancer microcode will screw everyone running Linux.

Time to cut the cord folks. Decide whether you want to continue enjoying the Micro$lop Store digital feces or prefer to have a system that works right. If you prefer the latter, grab WUB, O&O, WPD and open up your services with NSudo and start killing things before it's too late. If the notion of security is too compelling, just sit back and do nothing... let the Redmond Retards push the cancer code to your electronic slop bucket. But, please don't whine and moan about anything when the crap hits the fan.

 

Why is this ANY Microsoft fault?
You just wine a little bit too much and use a little bit to much the cancer and poop words, could you refrain that?....

Its another fault in Intel CPU's, and the micro-code is to be updated on all affected systems, because it IS a security issue, Microsoft, Apple, or Canonical or Red Hat won't cover their ears and then get reamed if ONE big costumer gets hit by malware that took advantage of some CPU fault that should be corrected with a micro-code update, but they decided that it wasn't right to do so, because the end user likes to call them names and security is dumb..

No sane OS company will leave systems unpatched, more so on OS's made to run as VM hypervisors were the risk of data loss is much bigger and can affect a lot more people.

https://access.redhat.com/solutions/2019-microcode-nov
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/intel-microcode
https://usn.ubuntu.com/3977-1/
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210107

 

OK, let's circle back on this again after everyone's turdbooks are overheating and running like crap because they can no longer undervolt. How 'bout dat?

Security is worth nothing when functionality is lost. Any firmware or software updates that result in loss of functionality should be optional. When you get it whether you want it or not it is cancer and feces. Let those that wish to opt in do so.

 

It really becomes an illusion of choice.

 

Finally someone with common sense, not just a kid who thinks his notebook is center of the universe and earth rotates around it. Plundervolt is a security vuln, simple as that. I will take secure system over ability to adjust CPU any day, blame intel, not manufacturers, we use SGX in our corporate apps a lot, we would lose more money if the enclave was broken somehow, same with bitlocker.

 

It's easier and more profitable to steal information from people who think they are safe.

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

 

Very true. And, the people that say security is most important are the people that have no idea how severely modern notebooks malfunction running stock voltage. Their usability is severely impaired due to extreme overheating. Some malfunction to the point of becoming practically unusable. I suppose we should all blame Intel for that as well, LOL.

Security is always secondary to functionality to me and many others. If my system gets locked down by firmware so it seems more secure to someone who doesn't own it or use it, then I no longer have any use for it. It becomes totally worthless to me, cannot serve the purposes for which I have it, and there is no longer any point in owning it. The removal of functionality effectively renders it a broken product and something that should be discarded as rubbish.

So, I maintain my assertion that any firmware changes that impact functionality in the name of security need to be fully disclosed and deployed on an opt-in basis only. Those that prefer functionality can have it their way, and those that care only about security can have it their way. Nobody has any right to mess with property that isn't theirs to mess with, regardless of what their opinion is about the importance of security (or the hypothetical lack thereof).

There is a place for that. You should have that feature for your business purposes if you want or need it. Likewise, the rest of us should have the ability to say no if we don't want or need it. We shouldn't be ruining one group's computers for the sake of another group's computers. That would be a really stupid and irrational thing to do, and there would be plenty of reason for those negatively affected by it to be extremely upset because of it.

 

And that is actually a great thing! And we should all thank manufacturers for this, because if you have no use for it, it means you wont use it, and that means you wont be a threat to everyone around you (on a network, yourself, or on the internet). Security is never an opt-in thing, I suppose you DONT even know what is SGX used for, what Spectre and Meltdown actually does, you just care about you, no one else, that´s pretty selfish and I´d be grateful if you would just stop using computers and go back to pen and paper. Thank you.

PS: Intel never advertised ANY over/undervolting capabilities, it´s just a feature they gave, and now they taken, if you are unsatisfied with the product, sell it, choose something else, there are plenty of alternatives on the market.

 

Spoken like an article from The Verge.

 

I think 10th Gen Intel would agree.

 

Wow, I guess we do really have something in common after all. We both don't care about what anyone else wants.

Where we differ is, I want people to have what they want even when I don't care about what they want. There is a subtle difference. You want people to have what you want them to have whether they like it or not. Dictatorships never work well. If you really want computers and the internet to be more secure, we need to implement capital punishment for hackers and data collectors on a global scale. Then we can all live in harmony with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

 

Either lock all out or let the users determine what they prefer. Will it be a more secure world if the unlocked chips get the proper options to allow Voltage adjustments?



Is it ok that Microsoft determine that you should be locked out while many others is still allowed to make voltage adjustments? Will this increase security for all? What if you run Win 8/8.1 or Win 7? Will those get the new microcode patches via Win update?

 

Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, and definitely a step in the right direction. If they want to do the right thing they will allow CPU voltage to be modified on anyone's system that wants to be able to modify the voltage. If they do not allow that, they need to give everyone that purchased a turdbook that ends up locked a full refund of their original purchase price because all of them will be perma-broken with severe overheating problems. The only reason any of them are marginally usable without major complications is because they can be undervolted.

 

The SGX feature work exactly equal for all systems. If SGX is enabled it shouldn't matter if you run a unlocked chips or not.

"The patch can only be integrated at the Bios level, which means that users will have to install Bios updates as they become available from manufacturers. Unfortunately, since Bios updates are never installed automatically, many people will remain vulnerable to this exploit until they upgrade to a new motherboard"
https://securityboulevard.com/2019/12/intel-fixes-dangerous-plundervolt-vulnerability/

I'm 100% sure Intel will allow Voltage tuning for coming chips. If you buy a computer from any company who "lock you out from Voltage tuning" in their models... Vote with your wallets!

 

Apparently, the person that said that hasn't been paying attention. [[[ Flashes dirty look at Dell/Alienware for having their cancer BIOS revisions automatically pushed through Micro$lop Updates. ]]]

But, because it is mostly true that it requires a deliberate act, only those that don't know any better will accidentally flash their systems with malicious firmware updates. After all, "newer is always better" (not). It will be unfortunate for those that buy systems with the cancer version pre-applied from the factory though.

I see an opportunity to make some extra money fixing broken computers with blocked firmware downgrades using an SPI programmer.