Backup Laptop Power for Power Outages

Hey all i posted this in the dell xps 15 9550 thread but i believe it should be posted here since its in the hardware section? If not, mod can move my thread to where its the correct place. But i see this subforum talking about volts so i think this is the correct one.



Where im located, we get power outages quite a bit. We had 2 in the last week... one was about 30 minutes... the other was over an hour. Previously we would get it for either a few minutes or few hours and sometimes all the way till the night so at least 5 plus hours. We even had it where the power was out close to 2 days. But this is more rare. Usually its not more than a few hours. My issue though is what I do online... i cannot afford this to happen because what I do daily... i need to make sure i have at least 8 hours of power at the minimum. Thus imagine what i do if power goes out for a long time and i cannot get power and my laptop turns off, Im losing money because of it unless i go and find the nearest power outlet. The thing is when we have power outages, its almost always when there is heavy rain. We get heavy rain quite a bit and when it gets very strong, the power does go out. This happens quite a bit during the afternoon and then power could go out till late at night. Now if im not doing my thing, no big issue. But i do my thing at least 5 days a week and cannot afford this to happen.



My xps 15 9550 laptop gets me 1.5 hours of battery at lowest battery setting and 25 percent brightness. What i do on my laptop... it is intensive and uses lot of power. I also got a dell powerbank 7015L and tested it. I would let my laptop battery go to 5%, then connect it to powerbank. I notice that it would take around 1h 45m to charge it before the powerbank power goes out. It also only charges to 73% max or so and cannot fully charge my laptop to even 100%. Someone else told me he uses the same powerbank or similar one for an inspiron laptop and told me he could charge it multiple times to 100% etc. But he also says he has it charged all day to it and has no issue. So i assume its because his computer is not that powerful and quad core since it can last so long. So when i use laptop on battery for 1h 30m, i connect to powerbank. Let say it charges for 1h45m. Now im on the battery and say i get about 1hr on it before power goes out. So with my laptop battery... powerbank... and battery again after the powerbank charge... i say i get about 3h45m to 4h30m that i could use my laptop for the moment i do not have power. I would say its more on the lower end because i tested this while doing my thing... but not running as much programs intensively.


I know if i get another dell powerbank, that would give me another 2h30m to 3h. That is good. However that would only be 6h15m to about 7h30m though. Again its more of the lower end. Now if i get 2 more power banks, then i would have 8h45m to 10h or so which would be ideal. It cost about 125 usd for each of these powerbanks. The other thing is im not in the US at the moment so would be harder to get it.

 

I read about UPS. Now i read its for desktop and monitor and for making sure you save your information. Now what if i were to get one for my laptop? I read there are 500VA, 1000VA and 1500VA. I see there are even higher than that. Now could i get a UPS with the sole purpose of it be using it for my laptop while im doing my thing? Let say i get a 1000VA one. How many hours would i get out of it? Does it depend on my laptop battery? I read it depends on how many watts you draw per hour on your laptop. Well i will say my laptop when i use it intensively does use power. So is there a way to estimate this? I normally use my laptop connected with 2 external monitors when im doing my thing. Obviously when power outage happens, im only on my laptop screen so no big deal. So if i get one... does it need to be connected 24/7? Could i just charge it fully then unplug it. Then whenever power outage happens, i connect to it? Or it does not work that way?


Also how are the electricity costs? I read it increase your bill a lot? So only if you have it 24/7 connected? What if i don't have it connected. Then the only time i connect it to power is when i used it up after a power outage and it needs recharge? Or is that not good idea because it damages or wears it out? Because since im not using a desktop... i don't need to connect it all the time right? I also dont want my electric bill to be so high because its connected all the time. Thus my powerbank... i only connect it to power when i need a recharge. Then i leave it there in case i need to use it.


So should i get a UPS? Is that ideal or the ideal would be get another powerbank or 2 powerbank? Of course this is harder because im out of the US now. If i use a UPS, ideal way to do it? I already have a powerbank. So i assume battery goes out... use my laptop on battery for 1h30m. Then connect to the UPS and use it while its charging and then do my usual thing? And keep it connected even when my battery is 100% as oppose to unplugging it and using it on battery for another 1h30m before plugging it back in? Does either of these 2 ways work out the same in terms of power?


So assuming i have it connected always... then i notice my laptop battery shows not charging anymore which means UPS ran out. Then i use my laptop on battery for 1h30m before connecting my dell powerbank to it? Then use it while charging. Then once it runs out... use it on battery? Or have the laptop connected to the powerbank immediately after UPS runs out... and even though battery shows 100% on battery connect to powerbank anyway? Would the amount of battery you have still be the same on a powerbank if you connect to it while at 100% and use it as is as compared to using laptop on battery till 5% and connecting to it?


What would be your suggest if i want to have say at least 8 hour of backup? I have about 3h45m to 4h30m of it now. I mean what UPS would give me like 5 hours? Are there any that would give me even more than that?

 

Get a generator?

 

I googled that. But isn't that a bit overboard? Also i checked online and those are pretty expensive. But not only that... i want to have it inside my apartment always. I also do not have car or anything like that etc.


I mean with say 2 more dell powerbanks... that would be 2h30m to 3h each so that is pretty good. But its hard for me to get this because im not in the US now.


Now with the UPS, is what im curious about. In terms of price wise... are the powerbanks better because it doesn't use much electricity like UPS? One powerbank cost about $125. And obviously no elecricity is used unless i charge it.. which barely uses much power. A UPS i read is much different.

 

UPS is NOT meant for any usage other than letting your PC or server to stay up during momentary power loss or to allow them to gracefully shut down if there is a long power outage (more than few minutes) or give enough time for emergency generator to start (usually takes 15s for a standby generator). Anything else like letting its batteries drain completely will just needlessly shorten the lifespan of those batteries.

Like the person above said - get a generator. This is the only right way to keep your stuff powered during long power outages lasting several hours. It doesn't have to be big - there are portable generators such as the ones made by Honda which can output 1000-2000w and are easy to carry and maintain. Even if you don't have a car you can buy gasoline and store it in a fuel can. Plus if anything bad will happen like zombie epidemic or WW3 - you can always syphon fuel out of abandoned cars on the street ;-)

Alternatively you can get a large solar panel with an inverter, it doesn't need fuel but will be pretty useless during the night ;-)

 

@AlexusR


Well if a UPS is not meant for this, then why do they have so many where some are 500va, others 1000va and others are 1500va? I read some give 5 minutes, others 10 minutes and some even as much as 30 minutes? Because if you are in your home when this happens, well you don't need that many minutes to save your work or whatnot right? Why would ppl pay so much for the expensive ones with the 1500 VA for example compared to the 500VA? Because aren't all those devices already connected to the UPS in the first place and thus 24/7 or not?


When you say letting batteries drain completely... are you talking about me letting my laptop battery drain to like 5% before i connect the dell powerbank i have? So that is not the right way to do it? So if a power outage happens, just immediately connect my laptop to the powerbank? Thus even though my battery shows 100 percent on laptop battery, connect to dell powerbank anyway? Then use it? Then once you see its no longer charging...then you know the powerbank is out of power right? So that way... would get me around the same time as compared to me doing it where ... power outage... go on laptop battery for 1.5 hours... till it hit close to 5%... connect powerbank to it and use it at same time... takes 1h45m to charge before it runs out... say i have 73% left... then use it on battery as is? Either way i do it, i get same time? But the 1st method is bad if i let my battery drop to 5%?


Can you have these generators inside your apartment though? I read online those are not meant to be inside but its also dangerous as well. Is that true? I dont have a garage. Im in a tiny studio apartment in the 2nd floor in a building. Im located where its pretty hot throughout the year but we get rain quite a bit and then power outages frequently.


So the best option would probably be have a few of these dell powerbanks then right? Since that would cost about $125 each and you dont have to worry about anything else?


So the UPS is an absolute no then? So there aren't ppl that use a UPS for this purpose?

 

If you're in a tiny apartment - I think it would be better to just have a very large powerbank. Or maybe a battery with inverter, not a UPS but something like:
https://www.goalzero.com/shop/portable-power/
I did not personally use these so you should research to see how reliable and long-lasting this is.

 

HI there. But the inverter inside the apartment is safe? Again, i do not much about this but i read and others say a generator should never be inside.

 

How do you get online?

xDsl, wwan, neighbours Wi-Fi?

No amount of battery backup helps when whatever your internet runs on, is out of power.

 

A UPS is meant to safely shut down your computer (any other devices connected to it) gracefully in the event of a power outage, not to run the stuff off of battery until it drains dry. There are different types of UPS because they're meant for different things; higher wattage UPSes / bigger battery UPSes are meant for more power hungry devices (to give you enough time to shut them down).

You're better off with getting a replacement battery for your laptop, using a power bank, getting a generator (outside, not inside), or lobbying your local politicians to fix your local power problems.

 

I use my own internet to get online. Have my own modem. Its also a modem/router all in one. If there is outage, people around my area will have no power... no internet as well.


Oh you mean what would i do if there is an outage and i don't have internet? I would tether internet from my iphone. Of course if i do that, i have to make sure lower the power settings and brightness as tethering it uses lot of battery.

Well my laptop is an xps 15 9550. It is quad core laptop so its uses lot of power.


If i were to get a replacement battery for laptop, it would give me max 1h45m whle using it on battery with what im doing. At the moment, i get about 1h15m now on battery with lowest settings. Also my laptop the xps 15 9550, my battery is only 56wh... thus the smaller battery. I know there are xps 15 9550 laptops with the 84wh battery... but my model i can only use 56wh because my laptop came with 2 hard drives... ssd and another smaller ssd... so im stuck with the 56wh. I had no idea back then that there were different xps 9550 laptops where some are compatible with smaller battery and others bigger battery. I mean, if i had the 84wh battery, i probably get 2h at the absolute max when doing what im doing. Remember what i do is intensive.


Well i have my laptop battery which gets me 1h15m. When connecting powerbank to laptop at say 10%, it charges about 1h45m till it runs out of power while im using the laptop. Then i get max 70% on my laptop battery at most. So i get another 45m maybe. So in total, i get around 3h45m with my laptop battery and dell pw7015L powerbank assuming i have no power.


So you say dont get any UPS at all? But even though thats not its purpose, can you still use one though? Would it cause damage to UPS or computer if you do? I want to know that.


So my options are getting like 2 more of the pw7015L powerbanks then if i want close to 6 more hours of battery? Each would give me about 2h45m more.


Generator i dont think its an option. Again its not a house. Where im located, these power outages are common especially when either there are heavy thunderstorms... or when its really hot. Again, many times we could have no outage for a few months... then we could get a few nasty ones where it last at least 6 hours. But again, these are rare but it does happen. It happens a few times a year at least. To me, that concerns me when im busy on the computer. But when this happens, obviously they try to solve the solution and try to get power back within an hour or so. If these outages only last say 1 or 2 hours, that isn't big deal because my laptop battery with the powerbank last about 3h45m.


I mean when the outage happens early on... and say im busy doing my thing... then i need at least 9 hours of backup battery in case power doesn't come back. Right now i have about 3h45m of backup. Now if outage happens late in the afternoon or night, i would not need 9 hours of battery backup. Its only if it happens say before afternoon etc. But i would feel better if i had say 9 hours of backup.

 

@Jarhead


If one was to use the UPS and then run the battery until it drains out, does that mean the UPS would not last more than a few times use only or something? For example, i only would use it when power outage. Thus if no power outage, i would not have it connected to anything at all. So it would be like this... charge it full to 100 percent. Unplug it from my power surge. Then whenever power outage, connect it to my laptop. So that is no?


Also people can't use a UPS when necessary? I know if you have desktop, you need the ups connected to it at all times. But what if you only need to connect it to laptop only when power outage?


Well i can't get a generator as im inside. But is my only 2 options... more powerbanks or UPS? I know you say you are not suppose to use UPS for that but what other options for inside the apartment then? I mean if ppl have to be online for 12 hours straight and say power outage happens within the 2nd hour... and they need to be on 10 hours straight... what are their options besides going outside to find wifi at coffee shop etc? And usually when power outage, coffee shops around might not even have power outage. I mean i know there has to be solution for this right?

 

The battery in the UPS will charge up to 100% whenever it's plugged into the wall (and it should be left plugged in all the time anyway, so you should always have 100% when power goes out). You connect your laptop to it if you need to use that battery power.

 

HI there. So the UPS would be plugged into the wall outlet or it has to be plugged into a power surge? You say the wall outlet. I have the power surge and connect it to wallet outlet and basically everything else is connected to the power surge as i know connecting monitor or anything else to a wall outlet is not safe.


Okay since im on my laptop and have my 2 monitors on, these are currently connected all to the power surge. With the UPS, my monitors and my laptop ac adapter should all be connected to the UPS? Or its connected to none of my electronics at all? I know if you are using a desktop computer and monitors, well that would make sense its always connected to the UPS right since well once power goes out, everything goes out? But since im using laptop, only connect laptop to it when necessary?


I can't charge it fully to 100% and then leave it unplugged and keep it under my desk? Similar to how i have my dell powercompanion charged fully and leave it at my desk and whenever i need it, i plug my laptop to it? Then if power outage happens, connect my laptop ac charger to the UPS? Also if i were to do this, i obviously don't need to connect the UPS to the wall outlet right since there is no electricity? Thus imagine power outage, okay connect my laptop and its charger to the UPS and do my thing as usual?


Do you have recommendations on what UPS to buy? Could i get at least 5 hours to 6 hours on it? I assume that would require buying 2 of them?


Would this be what i want? I can't buy it from the US as im not there but i could buy this on another site.



https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-C...yberpower+ups&qid=1561695352&s=gateway&sr=8-3



Also is there a big difference if i get the 1350VA/815W vs the 1500VA/900W? That is what im looking at here. Could i get 3 hours on it?



Also what confuses me is i read that you are suppose to replace the batteries every so often. How often is this? So if i only use it when necessary, i rarely will need to replace it for a long time? But each time i will use it, i would be draining it right? Since i would be using it till it runs out of power? I read this is called draining and makes the battery go bad faster? What exactly is the difference between that and connecting to your other electronics for many hours and then it finally going out? Is that the same thing? Is there a difference if i use it while using my laptop intensively compared to someone
connecting it to monitors, desktop, laptop and letting it connected till it runs out of power?



In terms of price, is it cheaper/better to get a UPS vs another dell power companion? The UPS would cost me roughly $200 more or less and the dell power companion about $125 more or less. But i know the power companion will give me another 2h30m. So in terms of price, the power companion is cheaper option? But the UPS is better because i can connect my modem/router and even a monitor if i choose to right?


Would it make sense to have say 3 power companions or say 2 power companion and 1 UPS? Or maybe get 2 UPS? Or is that too much?

 

Usually a UPS will have built in surge protection into the system. But for large surges like lightning strikes, a cascade approach (wall -> surge protector -> UPS ) is recommended. Read https://switchon.eaton.com/plug/article/176/ups-vs.-surge-suppressor# for addtional info. While it will protect against some surge, the UPS will also have hardware that monitors the electrical flow, smoothing for brown-outs and kicking in during black-outs.

Check your UPS documentation, but you can plug the monitors into your UPS's "battery+surge" based sockets. I don't know if you need to do both as they will both be drawing battery power, but perhaps you could do your primary monitor in the UPS "battery+surge" and the secondary monitor in UPS "surge-only". Since the laptop is usually backed up by batteries, and assuming the laptop battery is in good working condition, I would just plug the laptop PSU into the UPS "surge-only" socket, since it is not really needed.

I'm a brand-loyalty type of person, and have owned nothing but APCC brand UPSs. I've never had a problem with one, and hope I never will. Most UPS web sites have a "power" calculator. For example, https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/tools/ups_selector. Using that, you can put in the type of load it would have based on what's plugged in, and how long you want it to last. It will then tell you which models (size) you should look at.

Note, a UPS is not a power generator, and I don't recommend treating it as such. it is a device used to give you enough time to shut down computers and connected devices during a black-out. It is not meant to provide hours and hours of large amounts of amperage over a long period of time. If you want that, you should investigate a home power generator.

Usually the UPS has built in alarm systems that let you know when a battery goes bad. I only change batteries when the alarms tell me to (about every 3-4 yrs). You should 'test' your UPS, by the built in button if it has it or by simply cutting power to make sure it is operating correctly every few months or so. Items plugged into the "battery+surge" sockets will drain the batteries, but at the same time, if your UPS is also plugged in, it will charge the batteries as they are drained. It is the same type of concept of your laptop using the batteries while its PSU is also plugged into AC power.

The draw can wear down the battery life over time, that is why I recommended network equipment (routers, switches) on "battery+surge" sockets, only using your primary monitor on the "battery+surge" socket, and the secondary monitor on the "surge only" socket. Things like Printers, cell phone chargers, laptops PSUs would best be served by plugging into the "surge only" sockets. When you settle on a UPS thoroughly read its documentation. It should contain some of the "Do's and Don'ts for what sockets would be used in which case.

I don't know much about Dell "Companion", but isn't it more like a portable power device? Is it capable at handling loads for things like monitors, routers, switches, or a full blown desktop? In other words, I thought it supplied power in milli amps, where the other stuff you've mentioned will require plain "amps" or 1000x that amount of the Dell Companion can do. But like I said, I don't know much about the Dell Companion, so perhaps they have larger ones which can do more.

Good luck

 

HI there. Well i can get APC but it seems to be a good amount more expensive than cyberpower. Right now i want to get cyberpower after reading reviews from each.


Dell power companion is like a backup portable battery. It looks a bit bigger than the ac adapter that you connect your laptop to the outlet etc. Thus you can carry it with you and if you have no outlet to connect to, just connect your already fully charged dell power companion to your laptop and it works. Nothing else is needed. What is great about it is once you charge it fully, it takes a bit less than 2 hours, then you can just keep it on the desk, and when an outage happens, you can connect it to your laptop when laptop is running out of battery. It has usb ports as well in it. So if i wanted to charge a phone or tablet, you can do that. No you cannot charge a monitor, router or desktop with it. This power companion is primarily for charging a dell laptop... but it has usb ports as well so you can use it for phone charger as well.


I know a UPS, you can power a ton of other things with it. But for me, when a power outage happens, i don't care about powering my 2 monitors as im willing to not use it when a power outage happens. As if i were to connect a monitor into a UPS, i know it would use a ton of power. Again, the only thing i would connect ups is my laptop... and maybe my modem/router that is a 2 in 1 but that is all.

 

If you are just going to power a modem/router and nothing else, you probably would not need a very big UPS. If you do get larger size, I imagine it would keep that that equipment running for quite some time.

Find out the load your modem/router uses, and then you should be able to use the power calculator link I provided. You don't have to purchase an APC, but using the calculator should give you an idea of the size (VA or at a fixed rates, you can figure it out as W = A * V == watts = amps * volts ) that you would want to purchase.

Good Luck

 

Hi there. Well the purpose of the UPS would be to power my laptop. I said i might also connect my modem/router but i probably won't because i will use my internet from my iphone and tether my data. So i don't want to waste any power from the UPS to a modem/router.


Well my dell power companion that has 18000mah and is 65W. It gives me 2h30m. Does that give a clue at how much a UPS that is say 1350V/810W gives?


The calculation you posted, how do i know how much watts my laptop give an hour then? I mean say i use my laptop 1 hour while plugged in, how do i find out how much watts or amps it uses?

 

I guess one thing I don't understand is why to you want your laptop on a UPS? Doesn't your laptop have working batteries? How long can you last on those batteries? In regards to load, check out your laptop PSU. It should have some kind of rating on in like amps per hour or something. See if there is any information you can gather from that. It should give you an idea on how much the power adapter can pull.

Another (more accurate) method is to look at a measuring device, like a "Kill A Watt" or "Kill-O-Meter" electricity usage monitor. Not sure if what the market is like outside the United States, but they sell them on Ebay and Amazon among other places.

 

hey if you want a cheap option just grab a 300w+ inverter and a car battery (usually the standard is 500 watts and upwards) but both will be under 100$ new but, you might be able to wiggle down to 50$. (also need a battery charger, wall or solar)

but it wont automatically switch power, Now I currently used a UPS connected to a car battery, have a 55in 4k tv and a desktop (4770k no gpu) all from the wall always around 200w (just plays tv and movies), my laptop clevo p870tm (4K,I5 8400,GTX 1080) Browsing around (performance setting)60-80w and gaming 250w-287w from the wall

Tablets around 15w max

netbook/ultrabook around 35w

stardard laptop 65w- 90w

gaming laptop(mid range dedicated gpu) 90-150w (lowest they can achieve while screen on is like 45w)

high end gaming laptop (high end gpu or sli) around 200w and upwards (like 500watts)

Ive used this option and i know it works, I have multiple car batteries, and sometimes the power goes out. But I'm also into off grid setups (solar power, wind generator) But there's lots of ways to have back up power, more if you willing to diy stuff

Also have you thought about spare laptop batteries, depending on model could be cheap or expensive, but better capacities with lithium and lightweight

but the Diy option is limitless and the cheapest option (like a lithium battery pack)

 

@cooldex


What you suggested... where do you buy that from? Like amazon? I don't have a clue about batteries like that. I also never had a car ever.. so im not familiar with this.


You say you have multiple car batteries, but where do you keep them? In your garage? Most importantly, are you using these items inside your apartment? Like for me, i will be using my laptop inside my studio apartment. Thus i won't be using this equipment or my laptop outside because either there is a huge storm or hurricane where there is heavy rain... or it is scorching hot and that is another reason why we have power outages here. But its more often the hot weather.


What do you mean spare laptop batteries? You mean like the one specificially for my dell xps 15 9550? If you mean that, the issue is you have to unscrew the screws to laptop and then put battery in and take old one out etc. I mean if my laptop had those removable batteries... of course most modern laptops are not like this anymore, then it would be much simpler. Well the only battery i can use is the dell xps 15 9550 56wh battery. I buy one every 1.5 years or so as that is when it needs replacement.


The DIY option... you mean with the inverter and car battery right? But i can or cannot keep this battery in my studio apartment? Is there safety hazards? What about using it inside my apartment? Also the thing is in my building, there is like a room in the 1st floor where they put things like brooms and other things for the cleaner and paint etc. Would it be safe to put that there as oppose to the apartment? Like think of it as a room where they put things like paint and other things in there.


Because if so, i am pretty sure i would be allowed to use room to put something there. Thus if power outage, i go downstairs, open the door, take that inverter and battery out... bring it to my studio apartment... then connect it to my laptop and use it? Would that work or not? If it cost $200 how much hours would it give me? You say a ton but how much? Because for me, if i want to buy a UPS that is 1500va/900w that will cost around 220 dollars where im located. And that probably give me 2 hours most likely? But another dell power companion which cost around 125 each gives me another 2.5 hours. Thus if i get 2 of those for $250 total, i can get another 5 hours... which is good enough. But i cant get that where im located now. So im stuck with the UPS option. But having 1 UPS is always good right? Or don't even bother with it? Because from what i read, it seem like my only option is get more powerbank or UPS... such as a 1500VA UPS and another dell power bank... or 2 dell power companion.


If what you say would give me 6 plus hours or more, of course $200 is good. Even $300 is good.


But when you say you connect all your tv and laptop to these car batteries, where are you located? Inside house? Inside apartment? Not outside like in the middle of the woods right? Because i would need to be using it inside the studio apartment.


Most importantly if i buy these items you suggested, which is only 2 items... 300V inverter and car battery... where do i buy those specifically? Like i want the correct one. Also the other question is how long does it take to set this up? Could i find a place to do this for me or is this a complete DIY thing? And if i do find some place to do this... what place would that be? Computer shop? Or another shop?


Thanks.

@jclausius


I want my laptop connected to anything that gives me more battery power in case i have power outage. Example if i have outage, i would just use my laptop battery in the time being. My laptop battery gives me 1h15m battery with what im doing. Even if i get a brand new battery, i get max 1h45m on it even when new. My battery is only 56wh... i can't get higher because my xps 9550 has 2 hard drives inside.
But after you use this laptop for a bit, you will get no more than 1h15m max really. I mean you can push it to 1h30m but thats pretty much it.


I have tested playing while on battery power. I get probably 1h15m.


So it doesn't matter what i connect to. Whether dell power companion, UPS or whatever. I just want to make sure i have enough battery backup power in case a power outage last more than 3 hours. Because as of now, if power outage happens, i can be on laptop for 1h15m. Then battery is going to be like 10%. Then i plug in my dell power companion. Then i use my laptop while its charging. It takes around 1h45m to charge before it runs out of juice. By then, my laptop will have max 70% battery. I get another 45m let say on the battery after that. So basically if power outage happens, i have 3h45m total backup battery. The powerbank dell supplies about 2h30m or so. So if i get 2 more of those, i can add 5 more hours. I want to know how much hours a UPS with 1500VA/900W will add. I mean its probably the same as the powerbank or maybe less?


Then of course its those other power options like inverter and car battery that others suggest but im not sure i can do that since im inside the apartment. Im getting conflicting answers from different sides where one person says you can get inverter and car battery and get 6 plus hours easily... then other ppl say you can't keep it inside apartment for safety reasons and others that say you can't use it inside for safety reasons


So thats why im asking for advice here. on what to do. I mean power generator someone suggested... how much is the cost? Can i use this inside apartment? Can i keep it inside my studio apartment? People say you should never do that etc. So I don't know what to do here.

 

Let's remove a home generator, since your situation is not a home / house.

The car battery is an interesting idea. If you have an auto parts store nearby, they usually sell them, so you could go look at the size, shape and pricing. But they might be a bit expensive depending on where you're located. Pricing aside, I don't know why you just couldn't keep a battery or two in your apartment in a closet or on a shelf. When stored / treated properly (look up how to store a car battery) the only real hazard it poses is in disposal, and depending on where you live, they have places that will properly dispose or recycle them.

For the size of a UPS, Cooldex gave you some general consumption numbers, so use a power calculator (see previous post) to see what kind of time a ups would provide.

But if you want my advice, get the power companion. It seems like it was specifically designed to do what you are looking for. With the other suggestions (car battery or ups), why bother using the wrong tool for the job? It's like trying to jam a square peg into a round hole, and may not do exactly what you want.

 

@jclausius


Okay no generator.


Do you have an idea how much the car battery pricing will cost roughly?


Well if i buy a battery or two, do i need that inverter as well? Like say i want to have 1 backup... how much will it cost price range in terms of price range for the battery... and what about inverter? Do you know about how many hours i can get out of it? You say keep it in closet or shelf. Well what if i put it in like a room that is for storage? In our building, we have a room where they store paint and tons of other things like cleaning etc in there. Thus the maid and any maintenance workers would get things from there and then take it out when necessary. Would that be a good place to keep it? I could ask the person in charge if i could keep that in there and pretty certain it would be allowed. But does it jeopardize things inside that room though if i do that? Its like a storage room but its really dirty/hot in there etc.


Well right now, would it be fine just get a UPS since i never had one ever? With a 1500VA/900W, it should get at least 2 hours if all i connect is my laptop? Also when i say 2 hours, would that mean say my battery is 10%, then i charge it to say 80% and it take say 1 hour.... then it runs out? Then i have another 1 hour on my battery so 2 hours total? Do you know if a UPS charges faster than a power companion? Mine takes about 1h45m to charge before it runs out and my laptop then would have max 70%. Because say the UPS gives my laptop a full charge from 10% to 100%, well depending on how long that takes... let say it takes 1h45m and it then runs out of juice. I could use my laptop battery for 1h15m so i get 3h total. Do you know if a UPS could possibly give me a full charge on my xps laptop while im using it?


Well right now i can't get power companion because of my location. I can get another one maybe a bit later on. But if i want 5 more backup battery, besides 2 power companions which i know would give me another 5 hours... how about 1 UPS... then see how long it last. Then get another power companion?


Because these seem to be my only 2 options besides the car battery etc. Also if getting car battery, how tough is it to do the setup? Isn't that complicated? Because i surely can't do that. Where would i go to have someone do this with the battery and inverter?

Well the car battery, isn't there a chance it doesn't have enough watt or volt for my xps laptop? Or that is not possible?


Yes i know the power companion works as it serves my purpose as i have one right now. So i thought okay get 2 more. But then i thought maybe get 1 only and a UPS.

 

Sorry. You're asking questions I can't answer.

Never done a car battery backup. The price may depend on where you live. In the US a gold star car battery is around $130 USD for a decent battery at my local "Autozone" and "O'Reilly's", so you'll need to research that yourself for your area.


Also, The inverter would be needed to conver to DC to AC, but I've never done it, and don't know much else about it. Cooldex may be able to help.

I can't tell you how long a UPS would last, the power calculator link may help yo answer those questions. Also in regards to charge, you'll have to check the ratings on your XPS power adapter in amps/hour vs amps/hour supplied by the UPS. Since you have the adapter, look for any writing or a model number and research what it requires as well as what the UPS supplies.

I told you I don't know much about the companion, so also do some research on what it supplies in amps/hr, and use that for comparison.

I don't think I can offer much other advice than what's been posted. Good luck in your research, and post back with your solution, and how it worked out.

 

FYI, car batteries are good at providing amps for a brief time, you would want a deep cycle battery (thicker plates). No I can't expand on that because I've never considered doing such a thing in a house, but going from DC to AC to DC sounds like a terrible waste of power to me...

 

@jclausius
@custom90gt


Yes i heard deep cycle battery is what is needed for this.

So you would agree just don't bother with any of this because its a huge hassle? I wouldn't have a clue on how to do this as if i ever do it, i just get the parts.. then have to find a place for them to do it. What place would even connect the deep cycle battery and the inverter then? A computer repair shop?

Well the thing is i would just want them stored in a room. So anytime i would need it, i would take it out. Again, i think i would take it out only a few times a year. I mean i could not take it out for months.

 

Like I said in my earlier post... Square peg for a round hole solution. Just buy a Dell companion or two and be done with it.

 

OK, To clear some things up ALL THE OPTIONS HERE THAT HAVE AN OUTLET PORT WILL BE DOING A DC (BATTERY) TO AC (LAPTOP AC ADAPTER) BACK TO DC (LAPTOP MOTHERBOARD) conversion. Unless it has just have usb outlets (DC @2.4a) or acts like the AC adapter, I think one of those dell companion does

I might've missed it, but where do you live or region, do have access to amazon,ebay,walmart,target,autozone (auto store). I live in america, chicago

I have mines in a house its sitting on carpet behind a tv stand, connected to a (UPS) cyberpower 685avr (390w output) i can get about 30 mins ( now note the battery is like 8yrs old has a crack on the side and was dropped couple years ago and deemed unfit to use in a vehicle everyday reliably) but still hold a charge to keep a tv on and desktop,when a lighting storm happens and a power surge occur to protect the electronics.

Also which exact dell companion model you looking at. Cause I only saw a 12ah, 18ah, & 24ah (ac outlet) (I strongly feel like the 12 and 18ah will be more fitting for a tablet or ultra book like on a train or bus, most portable but lowest wattage)

And regarding a car battery storage location (the idea location would be inside in a room temperature setting) not in the rain or sitting under the sun, and definitely not in no cold damp areas

At the end of the day its just like any other battery you already have, this is just for a car( needing high amperage on starting in all weather conditions) So you can put the batteries under your bed or on your bed while you sleep if you into that type of stuff (if its in good condition, never handle a leaking/ busted battery) but the aren't nuclear reactors, just a big battery.

Now standard car batteries do have their draw backs, they shouldn't often be fully discharge (30% and lower) to many times that can reduce the battery overall life of holding a charge, and this applies to all lead acid batteries even in the UPC

Lithium batteries also have a similar fate, they can't be completely discharge NEVER or that will kill the battery (only takes one time), cell phones, portable power banks, tablets and laptops have a built in controller to stop the battery from draining to 0% Thats why you will see the system turn off at like 4% or similar

So no battery is infinite,or perfect lets get that out the way (wear % level)


***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
So to get to the point from what i hear what your need is, Your Best option will be a UPC (most wattage, simple, doesn't have to be carried around with you, on demand as soon a power outage occur, and should be accessible in all regions) so go for the highest wattage your budget can allow.
And as soon as you get it, charge it up a day or two and test the battery( the manual will also tell you to do this but i'm just letting you know)
***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************


Another thing is to remember all times, even manufacturing times are VERY considered best case scenario, as there many variables that change in a real time scenario

I want to add some context to some other things like Deep cycle batteries, these can hold around 1800w to 3000w of power, but the size of 2 or three car batteries and Have long life cycles but can cost 300$ or more, BUT is best intended for some with plans of living off grid, running stoves, dryers, refrigerators. (no electrical company) wind generators and solar power panel, (SO FOR THE PRO'S) Well Technically you can buy one and a Inverter and run many electronics and get like a day of all your normal electricity usage off of it and use a battery charger to charge it when done.

when I said Diy, Iwas talking about grabbing stuff you already have like spare batteries, or very cheap parts you can find and building a powerbank (Which is kinda for a pro too, and you gotta have some great deal of electrical knowledge)

So that's why I BELIEVE the UPS will be your best choice cause you wont have to deal with any tinkering yourself, but the battery will give out one day (the more you use it the quicker)

Sorry for the long write up, I hate doing these but this not a simple topic, and quite the emerging market with no simple answer. As the world is so dependent on their electronics but power outages happens often no matter where you live, No option is a everlasting, cheap and feasible. Thats why we been stuck on fossil fuels this long, with the worlds most brilliant minds, and thats why we always charging our laptops, and smart phones. Typical full off grid setup (Not for apartment)

 

If you're really dead set on a car battery setup, here are some instructions in video form.

Just getting a UPS would be easier and possibly a fair bit cheaper, but hey, do whatever.

 

Hey all. I purchased a UPS 1500va/900W online and they will be sending it out soon. I will let you know how long it can last.




One other thing. I took a look at this on amazon. I saw it last time but disregarded it because i believe it was not compatible... but i think this might be? There is 50000mah and also, it supplies 130W? So that mean it would work for the xps 15 9550?


https://www.amazon.com/MAXOAK-50000mAh-Portable-Charger-External/dp/B00YP823NA


This was posted by someone a while back in an amazon review of it.


So that means this would work or not for my situation? This person seems to say if you are web browsing or doing light things, it should have no issue. This person says its great value compared to the power companion which makes sense because if it gives like more than 2.5x the mah.... 50000 compared to 18000... wouldn't this be considered very good if you want backup battery and don't bring it outside and carry it and keep it in apartment or house? I already ordered the 1500va/900w ups already but now i see this... then i review an old review about this.... im thinking this probably would work?



I've been using this behemoth of a battery bank for the past while now with my Dell XPS15 (9550) and have some preliminary thoughts on it so far.

First off, this thing is a brick. I measured the unit along at about 1.2kg, heavier than some laptops now! All that battery capacity has to go somewhere I guess. The advantage of this is, it can pretty much keep my XPS15 (another note, the battery bank comes with an adapter for the larger of the 2 Dell power plugs in use. My laptop uses the smaller one so had to get an adapter cable for it to work, but it works fine) juiced up for light use for an entire day, keeping the battery at a constant 90% (a setting I chose as the max level to charge the battery to to preserve its lifespan). You could be sitting in a library or something from opening hours to close with no need to be near a plug point if you're mostly just web browsing, listening to music etc.

Now for the limitations, the battery bank is rated for a max of 3A at 20V, equating to 60W of power. My XPS15 comes with a 130W power supply, and will consume that much while under a heavy load using the CPU, GPU and charging the battery at the same time. As such, the battery bank is fine to keep the battery topped up and not charging or gaming, or to charge the laptop while it is turned off. Once the laptop asks for a heavier load however, such as to start charging while switched on, or a game is fired up, this trips the overcurrent protection in the battery bank, immediately shutting it off. This is more of a safety feature than a flaw, but still makes it slightly frustrating to use at times. It would be nice if there was a way for it to tell the Dell laptop that 60W is all that is available, so the laptop can either charge more slowly or use a combination of port power and battery power while gaming. As it is, you have to turn off battery charging to use your computer while plugged in, or turn the computer off to top up the battery to full. Keep in mind, this only applies cases like mine where I am trying to power quite a high powered computer. Smaller laptops such as the XPS 13 which only come with I believe a 45W power supply would be completely fine.

Overall, despite the limitations, I'm quite happy to have the battery bank available. It's better value for the capacity compared to the official Dell laptop battery bank (which admittedly does work flawlessly) while still being useful in quite a lot of applications. I don't see this being a must have device for most people, as battery life is generally good enough for most people on plenty of lower powered dual core computer out there that having a massive brick like this makes no sense to carry around. Even for me, it will likely serve as an emergency backup for when I really have to be on a long trip somewhere with no access to a power outlet (keep in mind, no flights for this thing! Too much Lithium I believe) while still trying to get a lot of CPU intensive tasks done (photo editing etc).

 

I've come late to this discussion but the two parameters you need to look at are battery capacity (Watt-hours) and maximum power output (Watts or VA (W= VA x power factor)). Many of the UPSs are intended to provide enough time to shut down a computer and little more and contain one or two 12V 4Ah (= 48Wh) sealed lead-acid batteries. However, perhaps little more than half that capacity is effectively available.

The MAXOAK Lithium power bank looks much more attractive than a UPS but the problem is to avoid overloading it. There are two ways to do this: (i) Make sure that the dGPU doesn't run which you can do by setting (in the Nvidia control panel) software you will run during a power outage to use the integrated GPU; and (ii) setting the maximum CPU power state to 99% in the power options which disables the power-hungry turbo mode. Undervolting the CPU can also save a few watts.

I would suggest you get a mains power monitor so you can see how much power you use during your various usage patterns and can then see the the effect of power reduction measures. If you can keep the mains power draw to less than 60W then you won't overload the power bank.

And consider getting a high capacity SSD to replace your current storage drives. This will not only save a little power but also provide space for the big internal battery.

John

 

@John Ratsey


When i click on nvidia, i see preferred graphics processor is checked to auto select. Options are high performance nvidia processor or integrated graphics. So when im on battery mode on my laptop, always change it to this mode to get more battery correct? No matter what im connected to? Thus whether a power companion, a UPS or when im on just battery itself? But when plugged in, leave it on auto select? Thus this always gives me a bit more battery even if its only a few minutes?


How do i set the cpu power state to 99%? Also i think i might have done this previously to test it out but dont remember where i go for this. But i should have that at 100% right? Because i think someone said to make that number 90%? Im confused why you pick 99%. But doing this will always give it a bit more battery even if its a bit?


I heard about undervolting but iread that is lot complicated and can cause issues with laptop right? I dont want to try something like that because it seem very complicated?


I googled the mains power monitor. Okay so it seems like a small device. I read reviews that it has fried a few things and melted. But is there any danger of it damaging your computer or monitor or whatever you connect this to?


My current ssd is 256gb ssd samsung which is more like 230gb total available. I only have about 20gb left or a bit less only available. This is an old samsung ssd. I also have that 32gb ssd that came along with my laptop. Now im not familiar with ssd except i know back then it was expensive to get one. Now it seems like prices has went down a lot? I took a look and samsung ssd that are 500gb are only 80 dollars? It use to be over 250 back then. Thus might as well get a 1tb ssd then right with these prices? Also seems like you could get those m.2 ssd as well. Now i have 2 hard drive slots on my computer. But do ppl use the regular ssd slot if they only have 1? That is their only option right? But if their computer came with 2 hard drive slot, then they could either put 1 ssd in it or 2 ssd? And they could just have the m.2 ssd as their main one and not have a regular ssd?

 

Maybe something portable, like a ultrabook with USB C charging from a battery bank?

 

Yes, use integrated graphics when not running on the mains in order to conserve power. The Nvidia GPU uses a lot of power. That said, do some research to see what is using the power.

Click on the battery icon to select Power Options, then click on Change Plan Settings, then select Change Advanced Power Options which should bring up a box with a list. Maximum Processor State is under Power Management. If you haven't got that option then see here. My experience is that Turbo Mode needs 100%. 99% disables it and lower values further reduce the maximum CPU speed (but there's no obvious correlation between % and speed). Here's a graph I made a few years ago which shows the trend:

The Precision 5510 is the same generation as your XPS15 9550 and I've run for up to 8 hours on battery by deliberately being frugal but that's also with the big battery.

It's not that complicated but I would leave this to last. You can get another useful power saving by reducing screen brightness.

The mains power monitor is passive and just measures the electricity being used. I've had something similar for years without any problems. It is very useful for seeing the effect of what you are doing on the power being used (eg the effect of reducing the CPU power state).

SSD prices have dropped a lot in the last year. I've got the 2TB Intel 660p and, while this SSD not the fastest available, it's relatively cheap and likely to be better than your current storage devices. Put it in the M.2 slot and any 2.5" drive into an external enclosure and you've got space for the big battery.

You should also check the wear on your current battery as it's likely to be the better part of 3 years old. Use BatteryInfoView. How does Full Charged Capacity compare with the Design Capacity? Lower capacity batteries worked hard die sooner (the Lithium chemistry is happiest if kept away from full charge and full discharge) so I try to get the biggest battery option.

John

 

@ john ratsey


In maximum processor state i have it at 100% for both battery and plugged in. So you want me to change both to 99%? Or just on battery? When im plugged in, which is almost always, does it matter since im plugged in?


Minimum processor state shows 5% for both battery and plugged in. That is good?



Is the ssd you have... is it in regular ssd slot or the m.2 slot? How many hard drive slots do you have? My laptop has two slots... one with my 256gb ssd and one that is m.2 32gb ssd that came with it. Thus i found out not long ago because of that 2nd hard drive slot, that is why my laptop only has the 56wh battery and not the 97wh battery like most xps 9550 owners.



When you say buy a new ssd, you mean the regular ssd or the m.2 ssd? External enclosure... i have one of these actually for another hard drive that i use. So you mean get a new bigger ssd... but hwich one.. regular one m.2 ssd? Then put it in enclosure... the one im have or i need to buy the m.2 one? But you mean connect the hard drive with enclosure to the usb of my computer right? But is this my 2nd hard drive? Or you mean my main hard drive? Because someone in the xps 9550 thread said if you didn't have the 2nd hard drive slot.. then you would have the space for the 97wh battery. But would that mean i need to remove current ssd the bigger one i have there the 256gb one? And i have to get a m.2 ssd? Thus get a m.2 ssd that is 512gb or 1tb... then have computer opened... then remove my current 256gb ssd samsung and the m.2 32gb ssd... and replace the m.2gb ssd with the new one? Thus that is the only way i could have 1 hard drive inside... and get the 97wh battery?


I did the wear test on my current battery. I believe it was 90%? I bought this new 56wh battery about 1.5 years ago.

 

Set the battery option to 99% but leave the mains option at 100% when using mains power. However, if you are using an external battery then you'll need to change the mains option to 99%.

Yes. No need to change this setting.

I have the M.2 SSD and that's what I recommend you get. These are now available with capacities of 2TB (or more?) so there's no need for a 2.5" SSD and gives you the option to install the high capacity battery.

Yes. And if you buy another external enclosure you can use the 2.5" HDD which is currently in the computer as backup storage.

90% sounds good - better than I would expect for a battery which is regularly drained.

Your task is now to prioritise the actions. Fiddling with the power settings costs nothing so should be the first course of action. You can do useful research by running on battery with BatteryInfoView running so you immediately check the battery drain. Or you can run HWiNFO, enable Sensors and generate a log file. Under light usage it shouldn't be difficult to get below 10W. However, another point has come to mind: The UHD display panel is more power-hungry than the FHD panel. I recall that Notebookcheck has reviewed both versions.

John

 

Hi there thanks. So just to confirm, i set the maximum processor state to 99% on battery now. The plugged in is 100%.


But whenever im on battery as in my laptop only.. i don't need to do anything. But if i connect to my dell power companion pw7015l or a UPS, make sure i change the plugged in to 99% before i connect it to the power companion or UPS right?


Yes i notice there are even 2tb of that m.2 ssd. I had no idea of these things because back then a 500gb ssd was expensive as like 250 dollars or so. And i figure i never even close come to 256gb. A 1tb ssd will be more than enough than i ever need. A 500gb ssd is also more than enough as well.


At the moment i have an external enclosure that i bought a while back. I use it on a 1tb 5400 rpm hard drive where i use it with my chromebook. Because chromebook only has like 25gb of free space, anything i download to it... i transfer it to the 1tb 5400 rpm hard drive where the enclosure closes it. So basically i don't need to buy a 2nd enclosure right since well i can just take the enclosure out on the 5400rpm hard drive and just put it on the samsung 250gb 2.5' ssd?


Yea its 90%. I mean it certainly isn't as good when i got it new... but it isn't horrible etc. But i know i have to replace it soon as i know from experience, these have to be replaced like every 1.5 years or so.


Well my laptop has the regular mode... 1920x1080. There is no 4k or anything ridiculous like that as i know that makes battery worst.



By the way i just thought about something else. When im using my laptop, its connected to 2 external monitors. One is a very very old monitor but its not a CRT its flat panel ... like over 10 plus year old monitor. Another one is one of those nicer ones that i bought not that long ago. The old one is not that bright though in the screen... compared to the newer one.



Should there be a difference in battery life if


1. Use my laptop on battery when not connected to anything

2. Use my laptop on battery when connected to the 2 monitors



Does my laptop battery wear out faster when connected to 2 monitors as oppose to using it without connected to any monitor? Because i have tried this but it was never to test it out that way... but it seem like its around the same or the laptop with not connecting to anything gets maybe just a little better battery but not much?

 

Buy a few car batteries and hook them up in parallel to a high wattage 12V inverter . . . .

 

Someone mentioned that but i can't keep it inside the apartment.


By the way my UPS is coming soon. Is it as simple as plugging the UPS into an outlet and letting it charge fully... then plug it into say laptop and monitor to test it out? I assume i have to still download the software from that brand from the site right?

 

Yes and keep that setting for your normal (Balanced?) power plan. However, I would suggest that you go through the options for the Power Saver power plan and set everything in that plan to maximum power savings. Then, once the mains power stops, you only need to switch power plan to reduce power consumption instead of going into the advanced settings.

Yes, you can swap drives in your existing enclosure. However, a new enclosure with UASP enabled will let you utilize more of the SSD's speed which can be very useful.

Generating signals for more monitors will require the GPU to work harder so I would expect it to use more power. You can check for yourself by running the computer on battery, running BatteryInfoView to see the battery power drain and see if this changes between having the monitors connected and not connected. Allow a minute after any changes for the power use to stabilise before checking.

QUOTE="Drew1, post: 10928738, member: 368039"]Is it as simple as plugging the UPS into an outlet and letting it charge fully... then plug it into say laptop and monitor to test it out?[/QUOTE]
Yes. I hope it's not one of those annoying UPSs which makes an annoying noise all the time it's producing power. You are only interested in being warned when the battery gets low. You can check the details of the function of any UPS software before installing it. Some try to do an orderly shutdown of the computer once the UPS starts running.

John

 

@John Ratsey


Thanks for that inforamtion with the setting and the enclosure.


Its one of those cyberpower UPS... have you heard of those? Well the software installation is done through the site such as cyberpower right? They aren't going to send me a cd disk to install right? Because im using a laptop and i dont have a cd drive like most laptops.


Okay so fully charge it. Then once its charged, then use my laptop while on battery. Then once it hits say 10% battery. Connect it to the ups and use it. And see how long it last right? Now let say im using it the entire time while charging and now my laptop is at 100% battery. Do i continue to use it as is connected while it shows 100% battery like i would when connected to the outlet? Or do i disconnect it from UPS, use it on laptop till it hits 10% again, and then connect back to UPS and do it again? Either way, it should be the same amount of battery right? But almost for sure, the UPS probably would be out of battery already by the time it charges my laptop to 100%? Most likely it might not even charge it to 100% like how my power companion does? Im taking a guess that it would charge my laptop max 2 hours and then it run out of juice... then only power i have left is my laptop battery... does that sound about right? The UPS is 1500va/900w.

Hey all just received the UPS. I'm looking at the instructions and it says i need to charge it first for 8 hours. I took a look at a video online youtube for my model cyberpower 1500va/900w and a videosay UPS when bought... they are shipped where there is no power at all to prevent it from turning on during shipment. Can someone here confirm this is true for all new UPS bought online?


Also, the instruction say



Plug the ups into a 2 pole, 3 wire grounded receptable (wall outlet). Make sure the wall branch out is protected by a fuse or circuit breaker and does not service equipment with large electrical demands... e.g air conditioner, copier etc.




Okay so i want to make sure of this before i plug it into an outlet.



I have 2 electric outlets in the wall near my computer desk. I have a surge protector that is connected to one of the outlets. The other outlet is not used at the moment. In that surge protector, i have 2 monitors, laptop charger, modem/router and a landline phone connected to it. I have about 1 outlet that is not used at the moment on the surge protector. Basically everything i have connected is connected to the surge protector.



So whenever i have to charge my UPS and right now of course to charge it up, do i plug it into the power surge? Or do i plug it into the other wall outlet that i have? Or does it not matter? I was going to connect it to the wall outlet but my concern would be if i connect it to the wall outlet and when its charging... say i have a power outage, would there be risk of damage to the UPS? Or none at all?



But I then thought plugging it into the surge protector for 8 hours would be better idea because the surge protector protects it? Or is there a risk to connecting the UPS to the power surge because i have a ton of things connected to it? Sorry if this is a dumb question. I don't want to plug it into the wrong outlet and then if something goes wrong, I would not be happy. Once i get an answer, i will connect the UPS for 8 plus hours.

 

Fully charge the UPS, plug the computer into it then disconnect the UPS from the mains. The computer will then use the power from the UPS until the UPS shuts down. This shows how much extra run time the UPS can provide. You can do two tests, one with the computer running normally and one with the maximum power savings enabled, so you can see how much difference there is between these two settings. If you first drain the computer battery then plug into the UPS then it's less efficient as some of the power from the UPS will be used to charge the battery which will then be discharged when the UPS shuts down. The "round-tripping" (charge/discharge cycle) is probably around 85% efficient while it's also extra wear on the computer battery.

If the UPS is this then the batteries are sealed lead-acid and would need to be shipped in a charged state as lead-acid batteries don't like being left discharged. However, they may not be fully charged and hence the advice to fully charge before use. I note that the specification of that Cyberpower UPS is detailed and includes "Runtime at 60W ( min ) 90". This is useful guidance on what you can expect in therms of extra operating time. This means 75Whr usable capacity so it's a bit better than the battery in the computer.

The UPS includes its own surge protection but there's no harm in plugging it into your existing surge protector provided it can handle the extra power of the UPS. The warning about not using a circuit supplying high power equipment is because such equipment can cause short voltage dips which might then cause the UPS to briefly switch over to battery.

John

 

Hey John


Okay i get the UPS part with the charging. I will try those tests. But you always want me to immediately connect my laptop to the UPS right when laptop battery is 100%? So you are telling me if i use the laptop on battery to 10%, then connect it to UPS and use it while it charges, not only does it wear out the laptop battery... but i will get a lesser charge? Thus i might get a total of 2 hours if i connect it normally but 1h45m if i do it my way... is that what you are saying? Should i try a test on this to see if its the same? This term is called roundtripping? I never heard of this term.


But i always thought it would be strange just connecting my laptop to UPS or powerbank first when no power... because i always thought best to use laptop battery first. Also its like a psychological thing. Like if i connect my laptop to UPS or powerbank first, then say i get 2 hours or whatever it is... now i know i only have battery left. But if i go on battery, then use it... then close to running out... then connect to UPS... then use it and charging... then it run out... then i go on battery, it feels like i have more battery... does that make sense? Or foolish to think like that?


Remember with my dell power companion, the test i did was when using it only with my laptop and no monitor connect, i use laptop on battery till like 10%, then connect to it and use it as is. Then it charges while im using it... then once it run out of battery... then i use my laptop on battery etc. So are you saying with my dell power companion, i lose minutes because i do it my way? The use it on battery first till it drains and then connect the power companion to it when its at 10%?


You say i wear out the battery this way. But isn't this what laptops are meant for? Thus use it on battery and portable? I mean because the way you say this, its like never go on battery unless you have to? Example you are at coffeeshop and your laptop has 100% battery. You will be there for a while. There is an outlet to connect your laptop to. So always connect to it even if you have 100% or close to full?


This is what i bought

https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/ups/cp1500avrlcd/



I connected the UPS to the other wall outlet.

 

You will never get back out the full amount of power you used to charge up a battery, so there are losses and that means less run time. Each cycle of the battery is a little bit of wear, yes they are made for it but none will last forever.

If you run down the UPS batteries first, then switch to the laptop battery you waste zero power on recharging a battery. Also just one cycle for both UPS and the laptop battery.

If you run down the laptop first, then the UPS to recharge the laptop, then the laptop again, you burn up 2 cycles of your laptop, one for the UPS, and waste heat/energy during the recharging of the laptop battery. The power is limited to the battery capacities and you can't come out ahead no matter how you do it, but can lessen the amount of losses with the order you do it in.

 

My approach would be to leave the laptop plugged into the UPS so the UPS's battery gets drained first. When the UPS shuts down you still have a full laptop battery and a fairly good idea how long it will keep running for. And when that battery is close to empty you'll be warned and, if necessary, the laptop will hibernate to avoid data loss.

Round-tripping is the process of putting the energy into the battery and then taking it out again. It's likely about 90% efficient at best so not something you want to do when you are trying to conserve power.

If you are normally running on mains power then it makes sense (to me) to be plugged in to the UPS. Your approach makes sense if you need to be running the laptop on battery for portablity reasons and then the mains power is off when you want to top up the battery.

I think the Dell Power Companion is intended to be a supplementary battery for use when working away from a mains socket and not intended to be used as a UPS.

It's a matter of judgement when to run off battery and when to charge. Frequently topping up the battery to 100% will disproportionately increase the wear (much of the wear on the Lithium chemistry occurs at the two ends of the charge range).

The battery in that UPS is rated as 12V 9Ah = 108Whr. However, I don't think that is all usable capacity as (i) you lose energy as the UPS converts to mains voltage and the computer's PSU converts the mains to DC - perhaps 80% overall efficiency; and (ii) the UPS will probably shut down before the battery is fully drained.

John

 

@Porter


Thanks for that information. So basically if you connect laptop which is 100% immediately to the UPS or if its already connected to the UPS, that would mean also that i probably will get a little more battery that way as oppose to the way i do it right? So this would the same apply to my dell power companion right? Thus always connect to the UPS or dell power companion first... then just use the entire battery... then use my laptop battery as the final battery right? So basically doing the way you and John suggested... i would even get a bit more battery power when i have no power right?

@John Ratsey


Okay i will do that with the UPS. So connect laptop to it immediately if power outage or have it connected already to UPS. So you suggest doing this with the dell power companion as well right?


The power companion, i do not plug it into UPS. I bought that not that long ago and that was only backup battery i had. Now i have a UPS. So you suggest with the dell companion, connect it to my laptop the moment i run out of power like the UPS right?


Now here is the thing. Since i have companion now and UPS... which one do you suggest i use first?


Example, im on laptop. Power goes out. Previously what i did was use my laptop on battery for 1h15m. Then connect to power companion once im low in battery. Then i use it as i normally would and then it takes 1h45m to charge before it runs out of power. Of course i dont have full charge on my battery as the companion doesn't do whole thing. So by now, its 3 hours... and i only have my laptop battery left. I would have about 45m or so. At this point im doing my thing but have to figure out to get to a coffeeshop or something so i can connect to a power outlet. And of course chance they have no power either because here... if no power.. good chance most places have no power. But let say i continue to use laptop till battery goes out. Then i would go to a coffeeshop and connect my adapter to outlet. But when i do this, im not sure if you heard of this or not, but you could connect the laptop ac adapter to the power companion and connect that to the laptop. Did you know this? So when you do this, not only can you continue doing your thing... it would charge both the laptop battery and the power companion at the same time. But someone tells me it first charges so and so... then the other thing. I assume it first charges the laptop battery first right? Then the power companion? So let say after a few hours, both are fully charged. That would mean i know i have about 3h45m of backup or a bit more right since well that estimated time was me doing it the wrong way of letting laptop battery run low before connecting to power companion?


So now in my situation with UPS and power companion. This is what you suggest i do right? First connect fully charged laptop to UPS if i have not already. Use the UPS battery until it runs out. Then connect my power companion to my laptop. Use it until i run out of battery. Then finally use my laptop battery for the 1h15m or so right? Then go to coffeeshop and when i do obviously bring the companion with me so i can fully charge that and my laptop battery at once in an outlet right?









You say

If you are normally running on mains power then it makes sense (to me) to be plugged in to the UPS. Your approach makes sense if you need to be running the laptop on battery for portablity reasons and then the mains power is off when you want to top up the battery.



I"m bit confused with what you mean here.


Well I almost never bring my laptop outside or do anything outside with my laptop. Only reason is if im doing my thing and there is power outage and i have no more power backup. My laptop is charged to a power surge always 100% when im doing my thing in my apartment. So basically right now, there is not really a difference of having everything connected to the UPS or power surge right? Only difference is make sure the UPS is always fully charged 100%. And say i just leave it under my desk, well i just connect my laptop charger from the power surge and plug it to UPS and thats the same thing right?


Well i rarely if ever run my laptop on battery. If im doing my thing... its always plugged in. Well my laptop is charged fully to the outlet 100%. You say that wears out of the battery. Someone mentioned a while back you charge it fully if you using it like a desktop which i do... but they say make the max battery 90% ... that way it makes the laptop battery last longer. That is true right? So most ppl do this to make battery last longer? The only negative thing of me doing this is if there is power outage, now i lose a few minutes of backup since unplugging it.. i have less percentage. But what i notice was the moment i unplug the adapter from my laptop, back then it was 100% or 99% battery. Now its more like 95% or so. That is because battery is starting to wear out right?


Well the UPS is still good right? This was the highest available VA UPS available.

 

Yes.

If you keep the UPS plugged into the mains then it will keep itself fully charged and ready for a mains power outage.

I've got my XPS15's battery set to maximum 85% charge as it's usually plugged in to a reliable mains supply but in your situation I would make it a bit higher. However, it's the big battery so the impact on battery time of not having it fully charged is less.

Unfortunately, VA isn't a reliable indicator of your need, which is Watt-hours. You only need about 150VA output to match the rating of of XPS's PSU (and you should be trying to minimise the power drain when the mains is off). You've bought a UPS which could power ten XPS 15's at full load, albeit for a few minutes so you've paid extra for the higher rated power conversion electronics. The ideal UPS for your needs would have a relatively low power rating but several internal batteries so it can deliver that power for longer. (Thought: Is there room to add another battery inside the UPS?).

Anyway, it's time to see how long the UPS will power your computer but also don't forget you should be able to reduce the power drain using my suggestions made previously.

John

 

Thanks a lot for all that information man.

 

If you are looking for the most energy-dense backup power system I would recommend DIY with electric automotive cells like here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-5-N...AOSwjoFcEZUS:sc:FedExHomeDelivery!32909!US!-1

That will beat out solar + SLA car battery arrays, 18650 lithium packs, etc.

As a bonus, they are easily maintained should a cell go bad due to their mechanical interconnects via drilled bus bars, rather than soldered nickel tabs like traditional 18650 packs- mechanical connections also makes them more modular too in terms of voltages.

You could likely salvage the power handling board out of a bad UPC pack where the cells themselves went bad but the main board is still fine if you intend to power multiple 120VAC items - this however is not as efficient as if you used the pack as a dedicated laptop-only power supply that supplied your laptop's mainboard the 18VDC it needs directly- when used in that format it could keep your laptop running for quite a long time compared to pretty much all other solutions.

3 Nissan Leaf modules = 6 cells = 25.2 VDC when fully charged and 21.9 VDC when drained = 440 Wh (far more than any 18650 lithium packs you will find)

(most laptop mainboards require 18VDC)

Your laptop's power requirements would be a trickle compared to what these cells are built for so the cells would last a long time if voltages are managed carefully.

SEE ALSO:

https://www.hybridautocenter.com/HA...me=58ah-nissan-leaf-battery-module&Itemid=605

http://www.ev-propulsion.com/EV-calculations.html


$0.02

 

Maleko thanks for that information. But the big question is... can you leave these things inside my studio apartment? If not, then i cannot do this.


Now could i store it in like a place like a room but its hot inside etc? Or is that not safe? Then take it out when an outage and then bring it in my studio apartment and then use it?


Because if i cannot do this... then there is no use for it. I want to be able to store it inside and use it inside when necessary. Again, i rarely would use it much.