Blu-ray

I was just wondering what everyone was thinking about the upcoming Blu-ray format. I really think that Blu-ray is going to take over for the next gen of movie viewing. I read an article not too long ago saying that Blu-ray is likely to win the HD-DVD/Blu-ray format wars because E! had agreed to start developing for the format. Apparently, the porn industry has opted for the Blu-ray format due to its large capacity and history shows that where porn goes, the video industry goes. For instance, the porn industry is said to be responsible for the VHS win over Beta.

Moving away from porn, I must also say that I have seen two commercials advertising movies coming to Blu-ray just today, in addition to websites advertising Blu-ray movies for $19.95. When DVD's are $15, I think this would be great. In addition, I think the larger capacity and the PS3 will def help Blu-ray win the format wars. Anyways, just wondering what you guys think.

P.S. Sorry if this is in the wrong place, I didn't know where to put it.

 

I think the price for a player has to drop below $1,000 before it's even considered for adoption within the mass market. I also am not a fan of a format designed to auto-destruct if it doesn't like what you're putting in it.

~ Brett

 

It has already dropped below $1000 Nrbelex and you get the added bonus of a free hard drive and top of the line gaming unit =D for only 5 or 600$. I dont know what it was like in the US but when DVD players first came out here they were $1000+

 

DVD players were indeed over $1000 up until 4 or so years ago. Things can change rather quickly. I do not forsee the price being a problem as HD-DVD players aren't going to be much better. And HD-DVD doesn't have the added benefit of being a standard on a huge gaming system.

 

True but Bob and Sue aren't gonna run down to Target/Best Buy to pick up a $600 PS3 just so they can watch movies in a new format. Also keep in mind that Sony is losing a lot of money on the PS3 and you can't expect them to follow that model to such a degree with all their players of the format (i.e. stand-alone players, internals in computers, etc.).

~ Brett

 

yes, but sony isn't the only company making blu-ray players. in fact, LG and samsung are the only companies with blu-ray players coming out this summer.

 

Ok, but consider this: The average American already has the terms "DVD" and "high defition" in their vocabulary. They know that DVDs are what you watch movies on and high definition is really high quality television. HD-DVD sounds, essentially, like a combination of these two technologies which people already know about and understand. Think about how many people go into the "What Should I Buy" forum and ask to only see models from one or two companies they know. The same simple name recognition may play a role here. People don't want no crazy rays flyin' through the whole damn house! "Get these new-fangled blue lasers out of my livin' room!" they will say. "Give me back my upgraded DVDs!" Ok, maybe it won't go quite like that but name recognition probably will play a role.

I'm not saying HD-DVD is gonna win the format war, I'm just saying I don't think it's over and a bit too early to declare a winner and make your purchases. I think you're right and Blue-ray probably will win eventually, but the key word is eventually and the time until that happens may be a long way off.

~ Brett

 

i completely agree, the format war is not over, and it's not fair to pick a winner. but if were a betting person, and i'm not, i would put my money on blu-ray. HD-DVD may have naming in it's corner, but at the same token, that could be a bad thing. people may look at it and be like, "i already have hdtv and dvd's. how is this different?" whereas blu-ray sounds new; it sounds different. it comes off as a completely different format with benefits far beyond the current dvd format. i personally think the whole hd-dvd thing will confuse people. they're going to stary wondering why that have a dvd player and an hdtv but can't play HD-DVD's. or they're going to wonder why they have DVD burners, but can't record onto HD-DVD's. just something to think about...

 

I don't think the jump in quality is as good from DVD ot HD-DVD or Blue-Ray as it was from VHS to DVD. $200 is probably the price point where most people start to consider buying a HD player. Thats a ways off. They may end up going the way of SACD and DVD-Audio. Time will tell I guess.

 

There's a lot riding on BLU-Ray and it will succeed if enough money is put in to market the technology, not much else matters.

 

I hope to see blu-ray crash and burn, but that's just cause I hate Sony and their products with a passion (now that i mention it, my brothers wonderful sony dvd drive crapped out yesterday when he was trying to load Half-Life 2 episode one).

I can't remember the exact statistic, but the original playstation 2 model had a REALLY bad habit of crapping just after the warranty ran out. The guy who made the Resident Evil games said that he had gone through 3 playstation (that was at the time of the interview, 2 years after ps2 was released). I'm not exaggerating when i say that every one of my friends who owns an old ps2 has had to get a new one or just said f it after theirs broke.

Now Sony is trying to cram their blu-ray down everyone's throte by making it standard on the ps3, which at the same time raises the price beyond anything the average gamer is going to want to pay. Despite the price difference, 400 vs 600, the performance gap between the xbox 360 and ps3 isn't going to be very wide at all because the idiots at sony were focusing so much of their energies on the stupid blu-ray drive, as if disc format is more important than cpu or gpu in a gaming machine.

According to the man in charge of the PS3's development; "ps3 will inspire discipline in both children and adults." LOL! Wait there's more; "it's good that the system is going to be so much money because now people will say "i must work extra hours so that I can afford this system."" This man is an idiot, and i'm sure it will show through in his hardware design. With the ps2, his decision not to focus on multiplayer gaming with 4 controller ports and a built in modem left an entire market open for xbox to survive on. The only reason that sony probably hasn't demoted him to being next to nothing is because in Japanese business culture, they tend to avoid harsh demotions unless you really fail miserably (kind of like what nintendo did to the gameboy designer after his virtual boy flopped).

Well, I'm sorry on the subject of blu-ray i just couldn't help going on an anti-sony rant.

PANASONIC RULES!!!! (of all of the panasonic dvd and cd players/drives i've ever owned, they all still work).

 

first of all, i will admit that my ps2 did go out not too long ago, and i had to replace it with one of the slim models. however, to say that sony is junk is ridiculous. as a matter of fact, i still have a sony cd walkman at home that was built in 1991 and it still works great. i did however have a pansonic vcr a few years back that went out in less than 2 years...
i'm not trying to say that sony is better than panasonic, i'm just saying that you can't make generalizations based on personal experience. i also have a hp/compaq computer at home that has been no good since we bought it, but i'm not on here saying that hp makes crap. i also have an hp printer that hasn't worked right since i bought it. but i've had three or four hp printers in the past that have worked great for a long time. you can't just make generalizations.

and there is no doubt that the ps3 is superior to the xbox 360. there is also no doubt in my mind that the ps3, while more expensive, is a much better value. and as a matter of fact, when i first heard that the ps3 was going to be quite expensive, i thought about getting a job so that i could buy one. then i started college and realized it wasn't quite that important to me. however, i still plan on purchasing a ps3 at some point. it's better than buying a $400 xbox that could possibly set my house on fire and won't allow me to play half the xbox games i already own.

 

Knock on wood, my PS2 is still going strong since launch.

In my humble opinion, I'm of the notion that it's the software, not the hardware, that ultimately wins console wars.

As for the new media format, let HD-DVD and Blu-Ray duke it out. It'll keep prices reasonable in the long run. Sure, the loser will have to switch once the winner becomes mainstream, but overall it's a win-win situation to consumers in general.

 

Agreed, though I wouldn't call it a "win" for the poor early adopter who purchased the wrong player and discs at almost $1,000.

~ Brett

 

I dont see why everyones making such a big deal about price, as has already been mentioned the First dvd players were roughly the same price and thats not even taking inflation into account. I baught my first dvd burner for 220$ and 6 months later i baught a second faster, better quality, dual layer burner for 60$. Its all about time as IBM perfects the cell processor and gets better yeilds from their wafers and blu-ray becomes more mainstream like everything else in the history of commerce it will become cheaper.

 

If that's directed at me D), I'm not saying the price won't come down; I'm only saying that it's not a great purchase right now. We don't even know who's gonna win the format war yet and guesses are only... well guesses.

~ Brett

 

Is this a good time to mention that HD-DVD has the advantage of being backwards compatible with standard DVDs? Or that the HD-DVD discs can be pressed in current replication facilities with minimal outlay for re-tooling?

Remember, the race doesn't always go to the technically superior format... otherwise we'd all have bought Betamax VCRs.

Either format is going to have to provide a very compelling reason for people to upgrade; the players may only cost $1000 initially, but then you should factor in the cost of replacing at least part of your DVD collection... this BTW, was the major reason the record companies were rolling in cash during the mid eighties to early nineties.

Since we're going off topic with all this blather about the merits of then next gen consoles... Screw the 360 and the PS3, I'm buying a Wii!

 

i'm just saying that you can't make generalizations based on personal experience.
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This isn't just my personal experience. When i went with a friend of mine to get his ps2, the people at best buy tried selling him a 2 year replacement plan and said that it was a response to the massive numbers of ps2s that were failing only months after being bought. And lets not forget that the director of the RE games has gone through 3 of them (since that article was published about 2 years after the ps2 launch) and accuses sony of using cheap components.

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there is also no doubt in my mind that the ps3, while more expensive, is a much better value.
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lol, just like the ps2 was a better value than the xbox with it's 2 controller ports and no modelm

I really doubt that. There really isn't going to be the wide performance gap between the next gen consoles as their was between the ps2 and xbox, the reason being that the idiots at sony spent so much of their engergies on working the blu-ray into the design.


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I'm of the notion that it's the software, not the hardware, that ultimately wins console wars.

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I agree and from what i hear the cell processor is going to be a pain in the ass to code for. From what i've heard, it has 7 cores that are about half as powerful as the 360's 3 cores. So while the ps3's processor is slightly more powerful than the 360's, it will be twice as hard to code games for, and i doubt that that's gonna sit very well with developers (ya know, the people who make the games that sell the system?).

I'm not positive, but from what i've heard, makeing games on more than 3 threads of code isn't something that developers are going to want to do because the disadvantages of how complex and hard it becomes to program correctly outway the benefits of using more than 3 threads. I wish i could find the article i read about it in, but at the game developers conference in 05, Gabe Newell (founder and CEO of valve software) went on a rant against ALL of the new consoles because it's gonna be such a pain for developers to program for multi cpu systems.

ps. Sorry everyone for changing the subject of the thread like this.

 

While it might not sit well with developers, you know that they are still going to be making games, regardless of how difficult the platform will be to code. Sure, it'll take more work/staff, but gaming is such a huge cash cow, it'll happen either way. Just with more complaining.

If I recall, developers had alot of gripes when the PlayStation 2 first came out as well. Same things too: hard to code, etc etc. The learning curve may have been steep in the beginning, but it didn't stop people from churning out the games.

Agreed. Didn't mean to derail the thread, but sometimes it's hard to avoid, no?

 

first off blu ray is an excelent prospect but i cant afford a ps3 rite now at £425 and i certainly cant afford an hdtv at roughly £1000 for a decent size, i hear anything less than 28inch and u wont notice the hi def.
in response to this comment:

"Is this a good time to mention that HD-DVD has the advantage of being backwards compatible with standard DVDs"

the ps3 will be able to play dvds as well as blu ray. in regards to ps3 vs 360 i will wait until i can afford a ps3 rather than go out and buy second best. yes the specs may not differ hugely, but ps3 also the capability of connectiing to 7 wireless controllers via bluetooth and, an hdmi port for true hd gaming (for obsessives and the filthy rich only) and wireless internet the will hopefully match xbox live. the more expensive version also a 60gb hdd. lets not forget that sony has decided to keep the controller design the same, which is fantastic news because it really is the most comfortable and ergonomic controller around. also with the coding issue, whilst it may be a pain to code for, there are already plently of excellent looking games in production for ps3, such as mgs4, a new pes game, heavenly sword, ffXll and virtua tennis 3(personal fav) to name but a few.

back to blu ray and i would like to mention that the success of blu ray also depends a lot on the film industry, which is split down the middle in terms of companies siding with hddvd or blu ray, i cant remember which companies have gone where off the top of my head.

 

Why did DVD succeed?

It looked better than VHS on almost All TVs. Unless you have and HDTV YOU DO NOT NEED A HD_DVD OR BLU-RAY. The majority of DVD customers don't have and HD set, so Why switch. Until the market has more HDTV sets they will both languish like laser-disc. The enthusiasts will have them bob and joe won't. I would not be surprised if a 3rd option wins over both of them. Hopefully a 3rd option with less DRM

 

god, i like sony's hardware, but that whole fiasco (sp?) with the DRM root-kit on their cd's and now this self-destructing Blu-Ray disc. They are very anti-pirating paranoid and it limits the freedom of people wanting to use these products who don't have pirating in mind.

 

who doesnt like sonys hardware? well apparantly a lot of the public (and londez), or at least thay cant afford it. sony arent the all powerful electronic comodities producer they once were, the ps3 is losing them a lot of money, they are getting beaten in the tv market by companies like samsung and lg because their tvs are so much more expensive than the other brands and they are also getting pwned by the ipod in the mp3 market. if blu ray fails, which i hope it wont cos its the bnetter format of the two and because i love sony stuff (if i can afford it), im no expert and i dont no a huge amount about their financial situation, but im sure it could be disastrous. this anit piracy stuff you mention, noodles12, could cost them a lot more money than it saves them.

 

This is how it worked for me and alot of people.

When DVD's came out most people wanted to buy them but they were around $500(players).

The way my family and most people stepped into the DVD market was thru the PS2 or Xbox. Me, it was the PS2 and I just loved that i could watch DVD's(always wanted to) and play games on the same player.

Now I plan to buy a PS3 sometime in the future and thats because I believe Blue-ray is the next level. HD-DVD is taking technology backwards because there size cop. is not increasing ALOT. Its funny because most of the top electronics companies are building BR players and alot of 360 devos are now wanting to build for PS3 because of the better Storage space.

I think HD-DVD is in a boat that is sinking.

PS. Look into SEC TV's they are going to run over HD-TV next year. Alot cheaper and better to produce! (better then HD)

 

First, Whats the SEC TV

Second, I think PS2 was a big push for dvd, but PS3 will not sell the same number of units as ps2. Less parents are going to sink $600 for there kids video games than $300 for a ps2. Don't get me wrong I hope Blu-ray takes off(without the DRM) but I not convinced just because its on the PS3 it will win.
Take a look at UMD, stores are dropping it left and right because not enough sales

 

UMD is another complete mess on Sonys part. While it could have been great, they massively screwed it up by not producing something that will display it on TV's and by pricing them above DVD's.

If they sold "dual" packs (DVD + UMD) for $20 I'd probably buy them over DVD's (which currently are $15 for new releases approx). If something existed like a DVD player that plugged into a TV and allowed you to watch UMD's I might buy more. Given that the ONLY place I can watch UMD's is on the tiny PSP screen I'm not likely to buy any.

 

From what I have read this type of tv could dump HD off the market. I have a family member that works freelace for some major companies and its going around that this SEC stuff is alot better then HD could ever be. Its basically a new way of inputing data at better and clear rates then HD at a cheaper cost. IGN.com did a little thing on it but other then that the companies involved are keeping it silent.

IGN said that it would be announced next June in 07'. Have to wait till then. Thats why im not getting HDTV.

 

I believe that HD DVD is much faster out of the starting blocks; I've seen quite a few notebooks out there with this feature, more than those with Blu-ray, which is outrageously expensive; besides, who NEEDS that 20gigs (or so) of space? Isn't a DVD enough?

 

You sure you're not referring to SED (Surface-conduction Electron-emitter Display) technology? An exciting technology, with all the picture quality benefits of CRT and the slimline form factor and lower power consumption of LCD... OLED displays are also worth looking at once they make it to market.

 

Searched SEC on IGN nothin,

Put up a link.

I really don't think networks etc that are adopting a set standard like HDTV are going to say oops just kidding your millions of HD sets already sold are now obsolete and we will no longer carry HD, throw it and get a new SEC set. And why would someone start a format war with something as established as HD. SEC would be starting where HD was 6 yrs ago, even if sets are cheaper, 6yrs ago there was no content for HD anywhere. If its much cheaper for networks etc. You still won't get content tell there is demand. So lets hypotheically say:

$500 sec set that is superior with no content (or atleast very little)

$800 Hdtv set with many choices (HD_DVD, BLU RAY, Satelite, Cable, and even free over the air)

Hmmm.

54" HDTV set and not worried.

 

OH TedJ,

SED loks cool

 

I think Cox was meaning to say SED, seeing as it's Wikipedia entry links to this article detailing it's debut at CES 2006, as reported by ign.com...

It's not a new standard, it's a new display technology.

 

yeah thats it lol you saved me I kept typing SEC when i ment SED sry lol!!!!

 

No format will become mainstream until people decide to upgrade to an HDTV. And people are saying that the "affordable" point for a HDTV is when a 32" LCD TV is $500 and that's not gonna happen until 2008 at the earliest.

We are faced with the chicken and egg problem. Content providers don't want to make HD content that no one can watch. Consumers don't want to buy expensive HDTVs without content. Manufactures don't want to ramp up production when no one is buying their hardware.

On the flip side, had there only been one format, I would have gone out and bought some HD movies, full knowning that a) more content would be on teh way many years into the future and b) I'll be buying it eventually.


DVD didn't have these problems. That's why both formats will fail until this is resolved.

 

I completely agree that no format will take off until people start deciding that it's worth their money to buy it. However, as many have said, my family jumped into the DVD world with the PS2, and I think that the PS3 will help jump-start Blu-Ray much more than X360 will help HD-DVD. Personally, I hope Blu-Ray wins. The players may be quite expensive now, but so were DVD player when they came out, and Blu-Ray is the better format.

Gillhooley, I don't understand your argument. SED isn't a different format of high definition viewing. It's just a different technology that makes it better looking. Right now, you can get an HDTV in CRT, LCD, Plasma, etc. And apparently, in late 2006, you'll be able to get it in SED. HD just means you have high resolutions and refresh rates. 720i is considered high definition, and according to the IGN article, SEDs have a 1080p resolution, so they are most certainly HD. And apparently, better than LCD, Plasma, and even CRT with contrast ratios expected to be 100,000:1 (vs typical 3000:1 with plasma/LCD).

 

I know what SED is Notebook_ftw and never compared it to HDTV as I was just trying to make a point to Cox that no Format will overcome HD in the near future, as he was trying to say SEC was a different format, but was confusing it with SED which is a really cool new HDTV Tech.

Also Notebook, COX already argued the point of PS3 being a big boost to PS3, tell you what read the whole thread and make sure you can follow along before you post or blast someone else

thnks

 

First off, I wasn't blasting anyone. If this is what you consider flaming, then you're really sheltered when it comes to message boards. Secondly, I have read the entire thread; I was the one who started it. And in my very first post, I mentioned that the PS3 would be a major boost to Blu-ray; I was simply reaffirming my opinion in this most recent post, not stating a new one. So maybe you should read the whole thread and make sure you can follow along before you get all defensive. All I can go by is what you said, and you were saying that SEC was a different format than HD. Granted, you were under the wrong impression (i.e. he meant SED but said SEC), and I apologize if you felt I was calling you out. I was not trying to make you look stupid, I was just bringing to your attention that SED was the topic in question, and if you believed that it was a different format, that argument didn't make sense.

I didn't mean to call you out or make you feel bad or anything, and if I did then I'm sorry. Let's not get this going in the wrong direction, it's just a message board. And you know what they say, "Fighting on the Internet is like the Special Olympics..." So again, I apologize.

k thanks bye

 

Just to get back on track here, and this is a point ZaZ first brought up, but I can't yet see justification for the cost of a full blue-ray setup when the technology doesn't seem that much better than what we have now. I think a lot of the general public would have a hard time as it is judging which has better quality, HDTV vs. progressive scan DVD and from what I've read, Blu-ray isn't much better than the former. For somebody to walk into a store this summer and ask to see the difference between a DVD player and a Blu-ray player hooked up to the same TV playing the same movie, I can't imagine anybody in their right mind going for the $925 more option for such a little advance in technology. This isn't really an argument against Blu-ray but against the upcoming format as a whole. The same applies to HD-DVD. The two formats will need a lot of corporate backing and advertising as well as a good amount of subsidization on the players/readers before anyone starts considering them... in my humble opinion, of course.

~ Brett

 

Here's something interesting to take a look at regarding the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray war that is gonna be coming to head soon.

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/12/1524206&from=rss

I personally think that the PS3 will not help the sales of Blu-Ray as much as everyone is saying. It will be intersting to find out what Samsung decides to do (what sony makes them do) regarding their upcoming release of a Blu-Ray player.

It is also important to look at the head start that HD-DVD has now. Sony's delay of the ship date (possibly due to manufacturing issues) is troubling and could cause them to loose some more early adopters to HD-DVD. I feel like Sony may be pissing off some of the studios as well if their technology continues to be delayed.

Additionally, Blu-Ray players appear to be about double the price of HD-DVD players ($450 vs about $1000) which is an important factor in the battle.

In the end, like the console war, the most important factor will be support of the studios which I feel will be based on the inital support for the format.

 

First Of Notebook, Cool, sorry to get bent out a shape, just knew the difference.

Back to Blu and HD, I saw Hd -dvd at best buy, the 500 Toshiba., It looked Great and the setup was not the best, just on the end of an Aisle not the best angle etc, and I was very impressed. I have an HD tv with good progressive dvd, and I love it, but this was much better. I am used to watching HDTV over the cable, which is great, but I would say this is better than that. I feel there is no question in my mind HD-DVD (and I am sure Blu-Ray, but have never seen it) are surely better than DVD in Picture quality, My wife can see it easily and she is no AV enthusiast. But I agree with Nrbelex right now its steep even for those with HDTV sets. and Copa I think Sony pisses everyone off lately.