Building a laptop from scratch

Has anyone ever done this before?

I don't mean using a barebone kit. I mean using a website like newegg to purchase all the individual components (case, monitor panel, motherboard, cpu, fans, etc). Thus far I have been unable to find a site that actually sells all the individual components.

I've seen a few people custom design a case around a mini-itx motherboard, but that isn't really the same thing.

 

That's because it's not really possible, you need to pick the case to fit the MB (usually only laptops that share the ODM, see M15X/NP8660/... can use the same case (+screen?) + MB) and with the MB, fans would be proprietary (though there could be some leeway). You pick the screen to go with the case (again, a little leeway).
The closest you'll get to building your own laptop is a barebone, unless you're like KTRON.

 

pm k-tron, he is building one

 

I'm aware only certain types of motherboards will fit in certain cases and only certain panels will fit certain cases (obviously a 17" panel will not fit a 15.4" chassis, but there a lots of 17" panels and you could certainly bezel one into an 18.4" chassis). But at least in the larger cases there's more room for leeway. And designing a cooling solution isn't a big deal to me. I know I can always order any given fan size and speed from Jameco (I did this once to replace a dead fan on a graphics card) or the like. I'm just having trouble finding a place that will sell the basics (case, monitor panel, motherboard) individually.

 

there is no place that sells components for what u are asking. closest thing you can do is get a barebones kit. unless you know how to custom make the parts urself... laptops are not desktops...

 

Well I know how to make custom cooling solutions, even down to milling the heatsink. What I can't find is where the ODMs are getting their motherboards. I somewhat doubt the likes of HP and Dell are actually designing motherboards when they get the chassis from an ODM and the panel from the OEM.

So I guess what I really need is a good OEM for panels, a good OEM for motherboards and a way to get an ODM to sell me a chassis.

 

The ODM's use motherboard manufacturer's like Quanta, Compal, Clevo, Hannstar, and Flextronic

good luck emailing any of them because they will not answer your email. They filter their emails so they only get emails from their corporate dealers.

K-TRON

 

Okay, well failing that, I can make a case. But I'm somewhat at a loss as to what to use for the mainboard. I hear you're the guy to talk to about building laptops anyway

 

Unless you have some serious connections, or the patience/skill to build a case yourself, you're only real choice is a barebones kit/whitebook.

 

building the chassis is actually the hardest part. You need to pick a material and go with it. In my case the guys here wanted me to make mine out of aluminum. The block I would need, would cost $610, which is astronomical. I would have to mill 90% of it away anyways, so i think i am going to build it out of aluminum panels. If not I may just buy a solid block of acrylic and use that. It would look pretty cool I guess.
For making the case you can do it two ways. The right way and the wrong way. The wrong way is obviously the hacked botched up way.
the right way is to model all of the components in a 3D modeler like solidworks or Rhinocerous. Than when everything is arranged, you can invert what you have and mill the rest out from the block, so you get a perfect fit.

The power supply is also a hassel, because in my case I need 750-1000 watts of power, and their is no small 750 watt or 1000 watt power supply, so I had to make one

Mine uses standard server grade parts, and a 24" panel, so it is kinda beyond large.

K-TRON

 

How important are looks? I salvaged the MOB from a Satellite A105 along with the monitor, mouse, and other crucial components from an otherwise destroyed machine.

I made a frame out of wood and lined it with plexi-glass. I suspended the MOB with bolts through the plexi-glass. I put a nut on each side of the plexi-glass tightened them up after I screwed them into the MOB/components. I made an extension for the monitor wire so I could slide the monitor into the lid.

I added a power source and an extra fan too because it is now my portible media center. I even put in small filters over the vent holes to all but eliminate dust problems.

Now I'm just trying to add more hard drives. (see related post: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=358767)

 

Links to pictures please!!

24'' "laptop" with 8 cores... geezus

 

wow, I'm guessing you probably dispensed with an onboard battery. Did you go with a graphics card or an integrated chipset? (One of my biggest obstacles is finding a board that doesn't stick a graphics card at 90 degrees from the mainboard).

The case I wasn't too worried about. I've worked with my hands in the past (from metals to woods to plastics), so it's just a matter of material. I could go with melamine, but the same properties that make it easy to mold would probably make it a poor choice. There was some foam/resin combination that someone built a car body out of (very, very solid temperature tolerant stuff) that looked like a good candidate for carving/milling. I could also just weld/bend some sheet metal together for an industrial look.

 

It actually does have a battery, a whopping 32 cells, which should give an estimated 30 minutes of run time. It does have a graphics card, right now it has two 3870X2's in Crossfire, giving me 2gb gpu with 4 cores.

No pictures are coming for a while, it still needs a chassis to be made. Their would have been further progress if my power supply was not sabotaged.

K-TRON

 

Bummer about the power supply.

Are you using something like this to mount your video cards sideways?
http://www.ameri-rack.com/ARC1-127m.html
or this?
http://www.ameri-rack.com/ARC2-2PELX16CXss_m.html

Edited to add:
You're using a desktop motherboard, right? How'd you hook a battery to that?

 

The battery connects in the same means as a UPS. I used circuitry from a UPS with a dead battery, and connected it to standard LION batteries. I had to modify the board to run the different voltage cells, but all in all it should work fine.
The UPS plugs through the serial bus, and powered directly to the power supply, so it runs like a redundant system.

I used similar adaptors, I bought mine from ADEX Technologies.
http://www.diffusion-informatique.com/produits/riser/pci_express_bus_riser_rallonge.htm

My riser card cost ~$43 after shipping. It looks similar to the one you have in the first link.

K-TRON

 

heh, I've got some learning to do then. I've never tinkered around the guts of a UPS and I'm not all that adept at modifying circuits. But that does seem to be a good way to go about it.

On second thought it seems to be an extra step though. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a controller/charging circuit that connects the batteries directly to the motherboard (effectively eliminating the power supply portion)? As both the UPS portion and the power supply would be converting from ac to dc and back again when power comes from the battery? It seems like there would be two inverters in a UPS+power supply setup when you really only need one.

 

You cannot do that because of the need for ample power on different lines. In a laptop everything runs on 5V, so your battery simply powers one circuit. On a desktop their is 3.3V, 5V and 12V, so you need a big power supply. So in effect my battery is using the inverter UPS to make 120V AC, which powers the power supply which converts the AC back to usable DC for the system. Its a complicated process, but its the only way to do it. Tis a shame cause alot of efficiency is lost with an inverter and power supply.

K-TRON

 

Wouldn't it be possible to harvest the voltage controller from the power supply and place it between the batteries and the mainboard? Man, I wish I paid more attention to the electronics books I had as a kid

But it should be possibly to cut down the size of the UPS portion and power supply portion at least. Bleh, I'm probably over thinking this.

But after some googling, wouldn't something like be fairly close? It's certainly not up to the task of 700 watts, but getting closer.
http://store.mp3car.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PWR-024&Show=TechSpecs

or maybe this? http://www.dscpower.com/html/12vdc_700watt.html
Seems to be a company that'll custom build power supplies...

 

Well this took awhile to find:

http://www.synoceantech.com/index.php?mode=products&product_id=5

That's the best dc-dc power supply I've been able to locate thus far. I don't think I could do an SLI or crossfire setup with it, but I could certainly do a single gtx295. That would take up six of the seven 4 pin connectors with adapters though (two for the 6 pin connector and four for the two 6 pin connectors needed for the 8 pin connector, sheesh). Considering it also has 2 SATA connectors, that shouldn't be a problem though.

The height of the PSU is somewhat a problem though. At 3.38", it would be a fairly thick laptop. I might be able to take it apart and shave some height off it, but I'm not too optimistic about that (laying a tall component flat could increase the length of the circuit and resistance, messing up the circuit). They make 1U dc/dc power supplies, but unfortunately none of them come close to the 600 watt version. Alternatively, using a couple power supplies at the same time might work (one for graphics cards, one for the rest), but it would be a more complicated wiring/battery setup and potentially take up more space.

Ryobi makes a 24vdc lithium ion battery that is relatively small, as well as chargers (intended for use in cordless power tools lol). There probably isn't a very long run time in such a battery, but the charger could be turned into a power brick. Other possibilities include serial arrays of camcorder batteries and such.

 

why do you want a dc to dc power supply?
Is it just so you can avoid the power inverter, and use standard batteries?

and I doubt that power supply will power a GTX295, the 600watt model only has a 40amp 12V line, you may want to check the power requirements of a GTX295, cause I think it is recommended to have 45 amps or something like that

In your second to last post, I have no idea what those things are in the links you provided. I can physically use a board from a UPS, I only need a part of it anyways, and it isnt all that big

K-TRON

 

Well, using a dc/dc power supply would make the power system significantly simpler for me. Is the UPS setup that much easier?

I found a test setup using a core i7 (I was thinking of going this way) that peaked at 459.8 watts. Here's the link: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2009/01/08/nvidia-geforce-gtx-295-quad-sli-review/16
So a 600 watt supply should be sufficient (459.8w/12v is only 38.31 amps, which assumes all current is drawn from the 12v rail), although it would be cutting it close. I definitely wouldn't be able to run two gtx295's though without a beefier supply.

If you can tell me more about how your power setup is configured, that'd be awesome. Sorry about my second to last post, I was still refining my search for power supplies and those were a couple early hits.

 

Interesting, but I really doubt the accuracy of these tests. a 480 watt power supply cannot start up my 3870X2 and a single core processor. a 750watt can power my 3870X2 and two quad cores with some headroom.
You should really look for someone throwing out a UPS, the lead acid batteries in them die pretty readily, but the electronics will continue to work. I am using the board from a UPS, because it is designed with the same intention I want to use. I am still working on the idea, I have to actually get it working properly before I can give out information about how it works

K-TRON

 

I spoke to a Dell engineer before about this. He said that even if you manage to purchase all your components it would work out much more expensive to build your own, compared to buying one. They do this on purpose so you have to buy one.

As the laptop becomes increasingly more popular than the desktop, perhaps it will be possible to build your own one day.

 

Well I've been looking at both options. Ultimately the one that takes up less internal space and/or is easier to set up will be the winner. From what I've been reading, using a board from a UPS designed to charge a lead-acid battery could have potentially dangerous results with lithium ion battery packs that don't include a protection circuit.

I've discovered that the problem with the dc-dc power supply option is that I would need to find an appropriate battery to supply the correct voltage/amps and a charger that would be able to both charge the battery and supply power to the psu at the same time. This is proving more difficult that I had initially anticipated and may be impossible to find in a suitable (small) size.

I unfortunately don't have access to a busted UPS to experiment on. So I would have to go out and get one. I just wanted to avoid buying one that couldn't provide enough current. And then there's the matter of finding the right battery replacement. I tried searching for a UPS that uses lithium batteries (which would simplify things immensely), but couldn't find anything that provided enough current.

 

Well the best the laptop market has to offer currently is a desktop cpu with mobile graphics (Clevo D901C is a good example). If a standard portable power solution could be found, people could build complete desktop replacement systems from much more powerful desktop parts. They'd be a bit larger and heavier than regular laptops, but they'd be a lot lighter than a regular desktop and more portable than most micro-atx cases.

 

You would be way better off runing a few small transformers (where even the 3.3V line would only be a 4:1 wrap) and some voltage regulators. Running DC->AC->DC is an ungodly waste of energy, and all that waste is going to be turned into heat, which I am going to step out on a limb here and guess you don't need more of.

 

Well, not using a UPS board means finding or designing a charging system/battery pack (in addition to finding a suitable dc-dc atx power supply). I'm not really having a lot of luck there due to lack of expertise.

 

It sounds impressive to have a wolfdale 65W desktop CPU in a laptop, but why? I can understand some scientists etc may need this processing power but most people don't. Also, how will you deal with the heat? I would be surprised if the CPU doesn't fry. Also, it would be uncomfortable to type on the keyboard which is heated by the CPU. Not to mention the fan noise.

In my opinion, laptops do not lack CPU power, they fall behind on graphics. An easier way to get the type of processing power you describe, for those who need it, is wait for GPGPU as this is something that will be featured in Windows 7.

 

It's not really a desktop replacement if it isn't replacing a desktop, now is it? Laptops, even the high end desktop replacement laptops, don't come close to what you can do with desktop components.

Heat becomes a more manageable beast when you are dealing with something more akin to a 1.5U form factor. Most laptops aren't anywhere near this thick, but if you want to use a desktop graphics card, they have to be this thick anyway.

As to the why of it, because it's there. I'd love to be able to convert a desktop gaming rig into something that could conceivably fit in a backpack with a minimum of fuss. Even a micro-atx case with an lcd mounted to it would be a better desktop replacement solution than a laptop. I may even wind up doing something like that if I can't figure out the power issue. I can't imagine spending $3500 on a laptop that is 2 years out of date when it is brand new.

 

You mean that a new laptop is around 2 years behind its contemporary desktops? Or that only VERY expensive laptops are current?

 

I was exaggerating a bit, but the GTX280m was nearly a year out of date when it was announced recently (as far as I know, it will be in the Clevo D900F later this year), being comparable to the 9800 gt/gtx released last April.

 

I admit, I don't understand why you want to do that, but it sounds more like a science project more than anything. Doesn't sound like your laptop will last too long on battery, which is what I consider important for a laptop.

 

I can deal with the heat, my cooling system is capable of cooling two 200 watt processors, and a 400 watt power consumptive graphics card. My current maximum temps are under 115F

I am not going to use separate power supplies, not only is that a bad idea, but the efficiency is much lower that way, since three different batteries would have to be used, and three different power correction systems need to be made.
The only way to power it is with a battery/inverter system.

To me, I find building a laptop with a dual core is stupid, because you can just buy that. I am building mine because I need portability, cpu power and screen resolution, which probably will not be offered to the public for another 5 years. It took nearly about 5 years for dual cores to get to mobile quads, and my laptop has 8 high clocked cores, so I am good for a while. Plus no laptop has a 15K drive, and never will be, so I will always be ahead of the curve.

K-TRON

 

Wow, that's crazy... but pretty cool!

 

I've been looking up the dimensions of the components I was thinking of getting, but most of the power supplies I've seen are about 3-3.5" along it's shortest side (usually height). I think I can cut this down by about an inch by removing the top mounted fan (I believe you had said your design was something like 1.5U, so this should be about right?). This might make more sense anyway, as I was thinking of creating an array of small fans at the front of the case to push air through the back (it looks like some 1u servers use this method).

And you're right. Unless I stumble upon an electric engineering degree, it'll just be easier for me to use a normal power supply and a surge protector/power strip to hook everything up internally. I may drop the idea of any battery life entirely though, as it will be easier for a laymen like myself to simply make a desktop in a portable form factor. At the very worst, I can eliminate the cord mess normally associated with desktops by routing it all internally (that way everything can be carried as one device and only one power cord needs plugging in).

 

That is what I did. I stripped a Silverstone ST75F down, removed the top fan, hardwired two 60mm high flow fans to a fan controller, and it ran very cool and continued to provide stable power until my power supply was sabotaged. I always lock my room from now on

I will post up a guide soon to show how to do this

K-TRON

 

K-Tron, I saw you are installing a 15k drive - why not an Intel Extreme SSD instead?

 

bah, Intel. Why would you want that, when you can have beautiful Hitachi Ultrastars running at 15,000rpm. They sound so much better and quite frankly they load stuff in real life faster than any ssd I have ever seen. The only thing faster for loading is the I-RAM, but that is sadly only 4Gb per card

K-TRON

 

I hadn't thought about using a fan controller, but that is a very good idea (guides are fun too). I'm still trying to work out how I'm going to attach the monitor in such a way that I can run the cables through the joint (friction hinge?) without causing crimping over time.

 

I finally found a good friction hinge that will work for the monitor portion.

But I have to wait on ordering them until after I'm done modifying the monitor to reduce it's weight and width as much as possible. That way I won't accidentally get the hinge with too little or too much torque.

Here's a list of components I'm considering:
Keyboard: Saitek PK17U Black/Silver 104 Normal Keys 12 Function Keys USB Standard Cyborg Keyboard - 21.5" width
Mobo: DFI LANPARTY JR X58-T3H6 LGA 1366 Intel X58 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - 9.64" x 9.64"
Power supply: ENERMAX REVOLUTION85+ ERV1050EWT 1050W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Certified 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply - 7.48" x 5.9" x 3.39"
CPU: Intel Core i7 Extreme Edition 965 Nehalem 3.2GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601965 - Retail
RAM: mushkin 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)
GPU: EVGA 017-P3-1293-AR GeForce GTX 295 1792MB 896 (448 x 2)-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - 4.376" x 10.5"
Riser for GPU: PE-FLEX16R is a right angle flexible extender for PCI Express X16 bus - will have to determine whether or not I can fit two video cards before setting length and a/b side.
Harddrive: Western Digital Scorpio Blue WD5000BEVT 500GB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
Optical: Sony Optiarc Black 2X Blu-ray DVD-ROM 8X DVD-ROM 24X CD-ROM SATA Slim Internal Slim Slot Blu-ray DVD Combo Model BC-5600S-01 - OEM
Monitor/speakers: Acer H233Hbmid Black 23" 5ms HDMI Full HD 1080P Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 40000:1 (ACM) Built in Speakers - 21.73" x 16.06" x 6.76" inch, will definitely have to cut down the depth. I can probably cut a lot out in the way of mounting hardware, and plastic, but I also may be able to move some of the larger control boards, as well as the speakers to the bottom half of the case.

Heatsink height clearance is giving me trouble, so I may use one of the two solutions depending on which is more appropriate to final case design.

Asetek LCLC PRE-FILLED CPU Liquid Cooling Kit -120mm for factor means mounting horizontally, venting through the top of the case; or diagonally, venting through the back along with the rest of the components.

Cooljag DAY-7 1U Server Active PWM Fan Copper CPU Cooler - Socket LGA 1366 - this is much smaller and has no clearance issue, but I am somewhat doubtful as to whether or not it can do the job.

edit: The above components mean that my final form factor will be roughly 21.5" x 16" x however thin I can make it"

edit2: oops, forgot the fans. I was thinking of using a bunch of these:
SilenX IXP-13-14 Ixtrema Pro 40mm x 20mm 14dBA 6CFM Fan - Sleeved

 

Your system is going to melt. That heatsink will not be able to cool that processor that well. I dont know what heatsinks work for socket 1366, but Cooljag and dynatron have the best coolers. You may want to bump it to 2U to get everything to fit.

Honestly if you plan on using that powersupply and thin it down you are making a big mistake.
You need to physically look at the inside of the powersupply to see how tall the components are, and the location of ports. I am using 2 60mm 35cfm fans to cool my power supply. Those 40mm ones are going to cause your power supply to explode. You need to properly cool the power supply, it is very dangerous. When it overheats it explodes.

I suggest going with a easier power supply to use like the ST75F I have.

K-TRON

 

Well Cooljag was certainly under consideration, and Dynatron has a similar model. Do you think they will adequately cool the cpu? The larger cpu cooler was the pre-filled liquid cooler. It requires a fan on the radiator and to make it work right, I'd have to vent it to the top with a horizontally positioned 120mm fan. This shouldn't be too awful, as I had planned to keep the keyboard closer to edge that is closest to the user (unlike traditional laptops that make a large amount of room for a useless touchpad). But if the Cooljag I linked to previously will do the job, I didn't want to deal with a liquid system in a portable device if I didn't have to.

I realize this. I've attached a picture that shows the interior components (mostly). Here's the website with more specifics on it. The fan takes up about an inch or so of clearance from what I can tell (just like yours) and there don't seem to be any components taking up the full height of the PSU (just like yours). The Enermax will likely run a bit hotter, but is also slightly more efficient (5-8%) and offers more headroom (six 12v rails vs four). I picked it over a 750 watt based on your earlier assessment of power requirements. If 600 watt is not enough to run a single gtx295 system, I find it doubtful I'd be able to run two gtx295's in SLI at 750. Does that make sense?

I should have been more specific regarding the 40mm fans, but I haven't finished thermal planning yet. I had planned to array about 10 of them across the entire front. I hadn't yet decided how I was going to handle the exhaust, but this should give me a decent amount of airflow across all components from the intake. I've seen fan arrays like this in 1u servers, which is where I got the idea. I could be completely off base on this though.

edit: Regarding bumping it up to 2u, I'm hoping to eventually fit this into some kind of carrying device of some sort (although finding a carrying device for something that's 21.5x16x2-3 inches is proving difficult). So I'm trying to keep it as trim as possible and still fit everything inside.

 

It looks like you can use the power supply as long as you are careful about it. You may have to physically solder a few wires, but its doable. I hadnt seen that image before, which is why I was doubtful.
Please note that server barebones use 40mm fans, however they use 40x40x68mm fans, which can push about 45cfm, which is a good 7 x more than each of the fans you selected. You will need a bit of air flow, so I suggest getting more powerful 40mm fans.
DELTA and EBM Papst have good options.

K-TRON

 

That's about what I was thinking, regarding the soldering. Luckily it looks like all the points I'd have to solder are fairly large connections.

See, this is why I ask. I had the right basic idea, but the wrong fan.

How about this one?
http://www.fantronic.com/sunon-40x56mm-p-79.html
It pushes 59cfm. Suprisingly quiet for a Sunon fan too. I think my laptop would achieve liftoff if I made an entire array of 10. lol. Any idea how many I might need with this setup?

 

You need to target your cooling potential. It is very inefficient to just have fans blowing at nothing. In 1U rackmounts, the fans are usually aligned like 4 or 6 in a row. They usually cool the heatsinks and memory, which in most cases is all aligned on a server motherboard. Cooling is a bit easier on yours because you only have one chipset and one processor. On mine, I custom designed air channels made of acrylic, which direct the air flow throughout the entire system. I used two Dynatron A86G coolers with two EBM Papst 60mm S-FORCE fans. Each pushes 43cfm at nearly 2psi, which is the most pressure for any 60mm fan.

The fans you picked are good, but honestly their are better. Look at Delta for better price to performance. They have tons of models to choose from.
Check out Mouser electronics for parts, they carry loads of fans, at relatively good prices. If you are a student call up and tell them its for a school project and they will give you a discount

EBM Papsts are the most expensive fans you can buy, so they run around $60 for a single fan, so you may want to check out cheaper fans like Delta or ADDA. Just take their measurements, air flow, and noise with a grain of salt. EBM papst is the only manufacturer of fans that I know of which actually represents their fans properly. I have had many scythe, thermaltake and random manufacturer fans, and they never push the air volume they are rated at

K-TRON

 

I finally found a product spec sheet for the fan I listed. Apparently some genius swapped the Dba and CFM values. How disappointing. Here's a datasheet for a better 40mm fan than listed earlier.

I wasn't able to find any of the counter rotating server fans (those 44mm double thick jobs) at Mouser, but I did see a good deal on a 3 fan array earlier elsewhere. I just can't find it again

Also, I'm not a student. I've been out of college for years now. Speaking of which, oh hell, time to go to work. Time flies when you're researching fans.

 

Aha, found it!

http://www.kpsurplus.com/products/view/16785
$50 for 3 of them is pretty cheap.

Individually they go for $26.65
http://www.newark.com/sanyo-denki/9cra0412j501/counter-rotating-axial-fan/dp/96M1700

With three of them running at 62dba, that'll be about the same as 67dba.
(found a handy dba calculator here). Two arrays of 3 should be about 70dba, which is about equivalent to a vacuum cleaner at 3 ft. So I should probably see if I can find some thin sound dampening material to line the case and mountings.

 

I think you should get a better heatsink. Honestly that heatsink you found with the small blower is not going to cut it.
Get something like this,
http://www.cooljagusa.com/1uJAC0B04C.html

You should just mount the 40mm fans to the side of the heatsink and that will be enough for it.

email or call Kenny at Cooljag, he is very helpful.
510-824-0889
[email protected]

K-TRON

 

The problem with these heatsinks is that I think they are geared toward Xeon processors in the same socket as the i7 (LGA 1366). The Xeon's run a bit cooler. So instead of going with a 1u heatsink, how about a 2u heatsink with one of the more powerful 40mm fans on the side? Much more fin area and more CFM across the copper. And it should still fit in the case too.

It's just a little bit crazy, so it should work!