Cloning vs Clean Install from 3.5HDD to 2.5 SSD

Hi Guys,
I am upgrading my PC from having a 1 TB HDD to 750GB SSD on Windows 10 PC.
Right now I only have 1 HD as 1 single C: drive.

I would prefer cloning as I won't have to worry about drivers, programs etc.
But am open to a clean install if that would be a better option in long run.

Also am planning to use the SSD for programs only and want to move all the games to the only HD which would be the new D: drive.

Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks

 

How much time do you have to waste (by cloning... and then, doing it right)?

Forget cloning - so 1999...

Do a clean install with a 33% OP on your new SSD and don't look back.

If possible, forego having both an SSD and an HDD on a mobile platform (worst of all worlds - for durability, reliability and performance too...). Throw the HDD into an external enclosure for a few dollars and use it as your backup drive instead.

If you do have a need for more than ~465GB of actual capacity (after OP'ing...) for your O/S, Programs and games, then consider a secondary (lesser) SSD instead - you won't regret it.

 

For absolute optimal performance, yes clean install is best. But cloning has it's advantages too, particularly if you already have a lot of software installed (Who really want's to spend their entire holiday vacation installing software?). And you aren't moving to a shiny state-of-the-art NVMe SSD. My first couple of SSD installs were simple clone and swaps and the improvement in performance was still huge. But if you do clone, and even if you do a clean install, I would still suggest you follow the SSD optimization guide ( http://www.thessdreview.com/ssd-gui...ptimization-guide-ultimate-windows-8-edition/ ) to get the best performance out of your new SSD.

As far as OPing (over-provisioning) goes, there is no optimum number. It is a trade-off of capacity vs performance. And while the difference between 10% and 25% may be measurable, in some environments, like typical laptop use (web browsing, streaming video, MS Office, some game playing), it is not going to be very noticeable, at least not until you get near filling up the drive. And Windows 10 enables trimming natively, which helps out quite a bit. Samsung and Seagate both recommend 10% for user drives and 25-33% for enterprise systems. And depending on the drive, there is usually already going to be some OPing built in. On a 750GB drive, it is already OP'd by ~10% (The advertised free space is 750,000,000,000 bytes, but there is an actual capacity of 768GB or 824,633,720,832 bytes). On some enterprise drives, there may be as much as 50% of storage allocated for OP from the factory. OTOH, if you are going to use your laptop for disk-intensive applications on a regular basis, then OPing by an additional 23% might not be a bad idea. You know what kinds of things you'll be doing, so you'll have to decide. Here's a Seagate paper on OPing http://www.seagate.com/tech-insights/ssd-over-provisioning-benefits-master-ti/

 

I would do a clean install as everyone has suggested..

As for OPing, I personally think its pointless, my SSD's work well enough without doing that and I need every last ounce of space in them.. If you want to it, do 10%, any more will have a really limited effect..

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

 

Thanks guys,
I will be doing a clean install after everyone's suggestion.
Previously I used Samsung clone tool to upgrade my laptop hard drive and it worked wonders but this is going to be for my primary PC so a clean install it is.
Aand am looking to install a bunch of games to a 3.5" drive is something that would help out a lot with space.

PC will be used to browsing, youtube, video editing via and some gaming.
The drive is a Crucial MX 300 750GB.

Now I have no idea about over provisioning.

So I download the ISO of Windows 10, make a bootable USB drive get the product ID form control panel > System right?
This system came pre-installed with Win 10 licensed so I don't have a CD or production key in hand.

Thanks guys

 

Thanks guys,
I will be doing a clean install after everyone's suggestion.
Previously I used Samsung clone tool to upgrade my laptop hard drive and it worked wonders but this is going to be for my primary PC so a clean install it is.
And am looking to install a bunch of games to a 3.5" drive is something that would help out a lot with space.

PC will be used to browsing, youtube, video editing and some gaming.
The drive is a Crucial MX 300 750GB.

Now I have no idea about over provisioning.

So I download the ISO of Windows 10, make a bootable USB drive get the product ID form control panel > System right?
This system came pre-installed with Win 10 licensed so I don't have a CD or production key in hand.

Thanks guys

 

Since it came preinstalled with Windows 10, the product key is actually embedded in BIOS somewhere, so if you are installing the same version of Windows 10, you shouldn't have to enter a product key. Some manufacturers (Dell for sure) will allow you to download the version of Windows from their support site. Another option, if available, is to create recovery media directly from Windows. Bring up the program list. Do you see "Create USB Recovery" anywhere? It may be in one of the Windows program folders (on my system it was in "Windows System"). You can use that to create USB install media. You can use the resulting USB thumb drive to do a fresh factory install to your new SSD.

 

Whatever you do, don't follow no 'SSD optimization' guides from almost 4 years ago and a different level of SSD's and O/S' than what we have today. As a matter of fact, don't do any optimization (O/S or SSD or anything else on your platform), period.

It's kinda funny how everyone suggests that OP'ing isn't needed but also acknowledges that manufacturers OP their highest performing drives by very high percentages...

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/why-over-provision.760922/

(Short thread).

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ing-programs-and-winrar.787721/#post-10193062

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ograms-and-winrar.787721/page-2#post-10202719

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ograms-and-winrar.787721/page-2#post-10203225

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/which-ssd-for-my-os-and-games.797667/#post-10375989

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/which-ssd-for-my-os-and-games.797667/#post-10376834

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/which-ssd-for-my-os-and-games.797667/page-2#post-10376889


To quote myself from the link above:

SSD's promise a lot - what they deliver 'out of the box' is something else entirely.

If you want the highest efficiency, least WA (Write Amplification), longest lasting (at peak performance...) most responsive storage subsystem ('almost'; no matter what workload...) and you want that performance sustained, over time (indefinitely...), then OP'ing is not just a suggestion - it is a necessity, even going into 2017...

To put a blunt point on this: sometime in 2010/2011 when I OP'd an Intel SSD by 50% for the first time did I see an SSD actually be more productive for me and my workloads than my fleet of vRaptors (on my desktops, of course...).

I still OP by 50% or more in those desktops and every notebook I own is OP'd by 33% or more too (depending on how big the actual SSD is... even the 64GB eMMC 'ssds' benefit from OP'ing - and the tradeoff between capacity and the added responsiveness is worth it even with ~20GB of 60GB actual usable capacity 'sacrificed' to OP'ing...

OP'ing doesn't increase the performance of the SSD (or your system)... what OP'ing does is allow the SSD's controller to be as responsive as possible to the users' requests - rather than the internal machinations it needs to do to simply keep the nand alive... By doing so, WA is reduced significantly because the Read/Erase/Modify/Write dance is mostly bypassed - during the time when the user wants the SSD's full attention and performance.

 

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So from what I've read just leaving empty SSD space doesn't help because there might still be deleted data etc on it.
Ok so I have the SSD installed in the PC. It's showing up device manager but it's not formatted ofcourse.

Now when u say 33% is that 33% of total SSD capacity in this case it's 750GB? Comes out to 247GB
Or is it 33% of accessible SSD capacity, mine shows as 700GB under disk management. comes out to 231GB.

I also have the USB bootable flash drive ready to go.

So what do I do next. Boot from USB then install windows. Where can I do OP during install?

I need the 1TB HDD for games because 500GB SSD won't be enough for my main PC and I can't afford to buy bigger SSDs.
Any recommendations for that?


Thanks.

 

Anyone?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

Yes, you can OP in the dialog where you create a partition during the installation process.

Try searching the forum for one of many discussions of OPing. @tilleroftheearth has described the steps for this in detail, in many posts.

 

Sorry for the late reply! Happy New Year!

When I specify '33%' - I actually mean the actual capacity available for the specific SSD/HDD in question (no; they're not all the same...).

So, on the Windows Advanced setup screen - delete/remove all partitions on the drive and when you go to create a new partition - I take that number that Windows setup shows and multiply it by 0.67 - that is the total I will use on that drive (no matter how I end up partitioning that total capacity).

Hope this clears it up for next time.

 

That 750GB SSD has 750,000,000,000 bytes of capacity. But the chips used to create that SSD will likely actually have 768GB (824,633,720,832) of capacity. That additional storage is built-in overprovisioning that the manufacturer doesn't tell you about. That drive is OP'd by almost 10% right out of the box.

 

My 960GB Sandisk Extreme Pro is also OPed out of the factory like this.. I see no reason to OP further and loose space!

 

And here's the reason: manufacturers OP their SSD's (or not) to achieve the 'up to' performance claimed on the box and also make it to one day past warranty coverage.

OP'ing, as I do, gets you the most performance -sustained, over time..., that the SSD is capable of.

I don't know anyone that really truly 'needs' an extra 33% capacity from their internal/built in storage drive (pCloud is what they need, if that's the case...) - but everyone appreciates getting an order of magnitude better responsiveness from their systems... for more than just a few seconds... (it's that 'up to' spec' that will be the death of me...

See:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10833/the-samsung-960-evo-1tb-review/2

(Just picked the first SSD tested with performance consistency to show as an example...).

Having an extra ~295GB is great, at first blush - but the cost is too high for me to pay when the system starts chugging and lagging because the SSD has to do it's clean up routines - right when I want/need it to do my work instead.

 

Happy New Year to u as well

What do u think about Crucial Momentum Cache?

http://www.crucial.com/wcsstore/CrucialSAS/pdf/enhancing_performance_momentum_cache.pdf

"Momentum Cache addresses other limitations in SSD design. When system memory is available, Momentum Cache coalesces smaller write transfers into larger transfers to reduce the impact of small random writes on the NAND. Small transfer random writes have the greatest impact on the endurance of NAND in an SSD. Additionally, Momentum Cache reduces wear on an SSD by filtering repetitive data written to the drive."

Thanks

 

I've been using it for some time with no complaints, FWIW.

 

A great option for compatible Crucial drives! Highly recommended (where a UPS is used, of course).

If CRAPID from Samsung only worked half as well, I would recommend that option too - but not only does CMC actually work where RAPID doesn't... RAPID actually hurts performance/responsiveness in every system I've tested it on (overall).

Before you enable Crucial Momentum Cache, I suggest the following:

Clean install Windows 10 x64 (Pro; recommended). Do all Windows Updates as necessary.

Install the most current drivers as necessary for the most responsive and most stable platform possible.

Install programs and utilities as needed.

After verifying to your satisfaction that the system is now stable and ready for production use and is on a reliable UPS... enable CMC and reboot. Let the system idle for at least 10 minutes and reboot once more.

Now use the system as normal.

If/when a firmware update is required for the SSD or the M/B or a major update to the O/S or any other major component; disable CMC and reboot at least twice (with at least a 10 minute idle period between reboots) before you flash the new firmware, etc.

After it is completed, you can enable CMC once again.


(I'm sure there are more posts in this forum with my experience with CMC - happy searching!).

 

Thanks guy.
I've installed win 10 on it and everything seems to be working fine. Will use old 1 tb HDD for storage.

One I have everything installed I will run crucial momentum cache.

Thanks a lot guys

 

Around 6 months ago I upgraded my laptop SSD to Samsung Evo 850 and used the Samsung Magician software for cloning (I know not a smart choice).

Anyhow lately my laptop was slow to react, decrease latency I guess.
I tried shrinking the partition but only had 325bytes free to shrink when 120GB of space was free....

So I moved the page file, deleted restore backup and stopped windows search in services.
Finally I was able to shrink partition and now the laptop is responding extremely quickly.

Thanks to u guys for all the advice about shrinking partition

 

if it was my laptop, I would do a fresh install but that's just me

make sure you install the latest NVMe driver for your SSD as well