DATA RECOVERY: (HDD Repair) Are you a 1337 H4X0R?

Hi.

I sold an hdd on ebay, the guy told me he just wanted the circuit board off the bottom so he repair a fault hdd that he needed to get some data off.

Regards

John.

 

so now we're all established, there is no vacuum, and there are VERY few particles other than pure air inside the hard drive chamber. What we're now wondering is, is it physically possible to open the drive chamber, and close it again, and not have any data loss? If it is possible, how hard would it be? Could a novice do it? Could an experienced geek do it? Could a professional do it? Could some guy with a million dollar hard drive air sucker thingy machine do it? Could superman do it? Can it be done at all?

 

This may help answer your question.

http://www.bp6.com/board/kb.php?mode=article&k=13
http://www.overclockers.com/tips821/

Maximum PC also did an article on this like 4-5 years ago.

 

I would say not a good idea in general, but I am not going to argue with the Ape.

 

impressive. I'm going to try to make my hard drive see through now.

I'll post videos and pictures when I'm done!

Not that I'll start any time soon, but yeah, definitely a project I will do someday!

 

BTW, just to be clear, opening the drive and cutting holes in the case for a clear mod and such, definitely 1/10+ as hard as the idea of swapping platters, which to me would require the kind of skills and tools of a professional engineer, IMO not something for even the most skilled 'enthusiast'. Gotta worry about balancing, etc. That's why the pros get the big bucks (we sent one in from work involved in a car accident cost us just under $1,000 for 'most' of the info back).

 

Okay guys keep bringing it on. Does it really matter if their is a seal or a vacuum on the drive, both keep out particulate matter.
Actually on older harddrives, their was a vacuum to seal the parts of the drive chamber together. There are vacuum and warning stickers all over a bunch of older MFM harddrives which I own. Yes these drives are old, but they used vacuums to seal the components. I have about 4 different MFM drives which are still working, which state on the top with a label that the drive is sealed with a vacuum.

And to all of you who do not believe, go take apart a harddrive for your self. You will need a screwdriver to pry off the cover from the shell of the drive. Why is that, cause their is definitely a pressure difference in and outside of the drive. The inside of the harddrive is not oxygen or air, it is argon gas. You can contact any drive specialist who fixes drives that the innard gas between the platters needs to be a inert gas. Then why is there a damn filtering piece, well the argon gas inside the drive has similar characteristics to oxygen gas, in the weight and density. The drive is filled with this gas, in the clean room, and then sealed. I thought it was a vacuum, but you guys say its not. They used to use vacuums 10 + years ago, but I guess now they use seals. When they seal the drive, the gas will stay inside. But actually that filter is a one way valve which only allows for air to enter into the drive. But does air really need to enter the drive? Well no. The argon gas is slightly heavier than the oxygen gas, so the argon will stay inside the chamber of the drive. If the argon is sealed inside the chamber, then air from the outside will not be able to enter the drive, since the drive is charged with argon. Only when their is a small amount of gas which has dissipated from the drive, through a small hole or whatnot, will air be able to enter into the drive, to fill in the space with which the small amount of gas used to occupy.

I hope I make this clear, because I spent a few hours talking to the guy at the RPI tech center in the CII building about harddrives and their data recovery.

K-TRON

 

K-T you should just ignore us, sometimes we are just a bunch of little old lady's who don't make mistakes.

 

Umm, yeah.

Would need a link for that, because I think K's confusing an argon rich MFR environment with them requiring Argon an inert non-reactive noble gas ideal to avoid issues like corrosion, static elec, etc.

Holes those sizes would dissipate the gas pretty quickly, moving from high concentration to low concentration diffusing it with the surrounding air over a short time, especially with pressure/temp changes.

Also if it were gravity alone, then you wouldn't be able to tilt it on it's side without fear of it leaking out to that point, and likely warning labels refering to it when installing.

The reason for the tight seal is to limite the places where gas exchanges to the filter, without which you would have it exchanging through uncontrolled areas, which would negate the idea of a filtered exchange point.

I could see some being filled with argon and sealed for extreme environments, where free exchange with the outside air would be completely unwanted, but not your average HDD.

Anywhoo, whatever, I think it's not relevant to the original question, but if someone feels otherwise, some proof would be nice.

 

K-tron -- how much FUD and garbage are you spewing? There is no vacuum in a hard drive -- they have a weep hole to allow for pressure equalization during thermal cycles. As for your theory on charges on the platter and actuator, you're awfully wrong there, too. Yes, the actuator has a small read-write head for magnetically aligning the particles on the platters (think small cassette tape head), and yes, dust is the worst enemy of a platter -- but cripes you are so full of it. Dust can have either charge -- or be neutral in charge. Neither the platters nor the actuator have a 'charge' -- they are grounded to the case. You might want to take electronics 101 at your local community college.

Gravity exists within the drive just as it does in your little world -- what was that about? The moisture isn't a big deal unless he froze the drive first, then pulled it out and allowed it to get that frosty beer glass look. A lot of people follow those instructions, but fail to protect the drive from condensation during the warm-up. (Physics quiz for you: why does water collect on a cold object in the summer?) The minimal 'moisture' in the air at room temps will not affect the drive operation if it was at and opened at the same temps.

Putting the cover on the drive may allow this guy to get at the data

You're right in that it is not brilliant to open the cover of a drive unnecessarily. Not by this neophyte -- he should have stayed with Data Rescue II (an excellent program that we've used to recover terabytes over the years). But opening a drive can be done to swap platters. And it can be done to help free up a stuck bearing -- provided he didn't touch the platter surface itself (you are correct here).

Sounds like he has a seriously sick drive -- and maybe his surgery pushed it over the edge. I'd still be willing to take a look at it -- but having just watched the utube post -- looks like there is scoring in the middle of that top platter -- boy, that clean room technique is a bit frightening. But data recovery can cost a lot of cash. What is the data worth to you, original poster?

BTW, I don't have a bone to pick with any of you -- but incorrect information really tears me up. We have enough BS out there -- it needs to be addressed before it gets repeated.

 

You only muddied the waters again. And some guy in a hallway at RPI might just be housekeeping I frankly don't believe someone from RPI would make such statements.

Go take some physics and chemistry classes. Then take apart your drives. The lid is stuck because the dust seals hold it well -- they are seals -- for dust. It's the screws that hold the lid on, as well as the adhesive qualities of the seals used--not a pressure differential. Note the 'do not cover this hole' warning on the label of your hard drive? Look up the term breather hole. Note the size of gas molecules and your 'filter' idea. Note the speed of gas molecules at room temperature. Note the concepts of gas diffusion, transport and mixing. The breather hole and many of the drives I've disassembled have filters -- not for gasses but to strip dust from the atmosphere in the drive case or air equalizing through the breather filter.

The only 'pressurized' drive I've ever seen was for space applications where an insured atmosphere was necessary for the heads to float properly.

Ah, forget it. You need to learn a bit more about such things. There are so many technical BS artists out here stroking their own egos, it's probably impossible to police them all. Go read about hard drives. Google is your friend. Hell, even wikipedia has better info than this thread.

 

There are filters inside most drives that sweep the internal air currents for particulates, too.

Opening a drive is not a death sentence, but it is foolish unless absolutely necessary.

 

why is it that no one can freaking agree on something in this thread!!! It's NOT a vacuum, we've established that.

Questions at this point are:

What IS inside? Air? Argon?
What is the pressure with comparison to the outside? (outside std pressure at sea level is 101.325 kPa, and varies based on altitude and other factors)
what is that little hole for?

Let's tackle it one question at a time folks, and provide as much proof as you possibly can to prove your answer.

I personally think there is plain air inside, and that the hole maintains pressure. I took a hard drive of mine and pressed firmly on it at various places, and noted that air came out of the little hole. When I depressed the drive, I could hear something going back inside (obviously air).
That's all I can really say for sure.

Any thoughts guys?

 

That's basically what I was inferring.

 

OK guy's we have gotten a little off on this. We argue about what should not be argued about. I know you guys who are correct are frustrated. And the rest of us just watch. We all agree opening a HDD is not the best idea. Opening then sawing, cutting or in general modifying case, cover or anything in the same room is just a very bad idea? The internal filter has no guarantee it will catch prior to contact with platter or head it is just a roll of the dice. Also since contaminants frequently have positive or negative charges, unless positive and negative filters, favors screwing stuff up beyond randomness. No, HDD's are not charged with argon gas for the most part. In trying to achieve an equilibrium all would be dissipated at a very high rate. Their were closed HDD's developed, for example high altitude situations. I suspect SSD's took this application over long ago. When someone misstates something instead of attacking like a pack of wild Hyenas maybe teaching and explanation might be a good idea. We all agree opening up a HDD is a last resort. So the important information was communicated by all. I am not going to pretend I am not one of the worst on this site at being closed minded and thoughtless, nonproductive in so far as attacking others. But it is a good idea. Do as I say not as I do!