Decent 5.1 sound on a laptop?

Does such a thing exist? I currently have an older (silver) X-Fi Notebook card paired with Audio Technica ATH-M40fs headphones, which sound great for 2-channel sound but I'm looking to step up to something more for HD movies and games.
All my music is just stereo, so I'm perfectly content with my current setup for that.

What I have:
-My laptop (in sig) has a SPDIF out that supports 5.1 surround sound.
-The X-Fi card only supports 5.1 with the speaker docking module with is freaking hard to find now that it's discontinued (if anyone has one I'm interested).

What I need:
1: Some way of outputting 5.1 sound from my laptop, either via SPDIF or by other means
2: Decent 5.1 headphones/headset compatible with a 5.1 signal given by #1

What I don't want:
-"Virtual" surround sound from 2 drivers like the Logitech G35 headset.
-Someone to tell me that virtual surround sound is just as good as actual 5.1. It's not.
-5.1 speakers (yet)

Anyone with expertise/opinions?
Thanks!

 

If you have real 5.1 hardware behind that spdif connector all you need is the right control software and input sources (music, games, etc).

We need to know that windows thinks you have for sound hardware. Look in device manager.

 

...I'm not quite seeing how this is relevant but it just lists the following under audio devices:

-NVIDIA High Definition Audio (this is for HDMI)
-Realtek High Definition Audio (SPDIF connects here)
-SB Xtreme Audio Notebook (the Creative card)

I'm using the X-Fi card as my primary output device and feeding it through the Realtek currently. But I don't mind switching to just the Realtek once I get a 5.1 headset/headphones.

For the Realtek device, I can go to the audio manager and under the device settings I can select Dolby Digital Live which is 5.1 sound. The X-Fi is not capable of 5.1 output unless I have the module.

 

get rid of the xifi now. yank the hardware (card or USB??) and kill the software dead dead dead. XiFI just complicates matters unnecessarily. If you have 5.1 hardware built into the laptop, you're all set.

You ack that you are going to need 5.1 headphones. Good.

What do you propose to use for source material?? And what software?

 

...Can I get some useful input from anybody? I bought the card and quite enjoy it, thanks. The enhancements make 128kbps mp3's bearable again. I don't want it "dead dead dead" since this is an option for me to get analog 5.1 sound. I don't care how complicated it is, if it's cheaper I will stick with it.

Did you read my OP? 5.1 headphones/headset is what I'm looking for.

I stated above that I would like to use 5.1 for games and movies that actually have 5.1 sound.

 

do you expect people to read your mind?

Are you proposing to keep both the xifi and the realtek 5.1 devices? In one sentence you claim to hate synthetic surround yet this is exactly what the xifi is doing. There is nothing that the xifi card is doing for you that the realtek device cannot.

Silly me, I assumed that since you were going for quality 5.1 you would also be going for quality 'standard' 2 channel stereo as well.

 

I always preferred speakers over headphones but if you have a SPDIF OUT and a 5.1 receiver with speakers you could connect the SPDIF OUT to the COAXIAL input of the receiver (orange plug) and you'll get 5.1 surround sound and DTS. I remember I used the AC3 Filter version 1.51 at that time and it was awesome. I remember I had something called SPDIFier and that worked good as well. I had this setup on a desktop like two years ago. Here's a link that might be useful for your project: http://ac3filter.net/forum/index.php?topic=10.0

 

No sir, only my posts.

Again, I use my X-Fi to enhance 2ch music. I want actual 5.1ch output for games and movies.
The X-Fi has a crystallizer, graphic equalizer, and yes, virtual 3D sound. I like those parts. The realtek does not, unless I'm grossly unaware of its audio capabilities. I want two different things if possible, and whatever gets the job done is great.

I'm looking to go with 5.1 for a more immersive gaming/movie experience and 2ch for a quality music experience. It's nigh impossible to find a really good-sounding affordable 5.1 headset, but they have a bunch more drivers than regular headphones.

Interesting... So this essentially means I can throw SPDIF through most applications? I'm good with that.
I think I'm short on the hardware part right now but this is good to know. Do any headphones support coax input/is there a cheap 5.1 SPDIF decoder around?

 

Whatever headphones that claim to support 5.1 surround sound will need a decoder for the digital signal, a 5.1 amplifier and like 4 drivers (small speakers) built in each earphone. You'll have SUBW + MAIN Ch + SURND Ch + CTR. I'm guessing they won't be exactly small since they'll be loaded with speakers. If the price of those headphones comes really close to the price of a 5.1 receiver with speakers why not make the switch to speakers? Anyways that's just my opinion. Oh yeah, plugging your stereo headphones into the 5.1 receiver headphone plug does defeat the purpose of the whole setup. You're back where you started so that's not an option.

 

I've found a few that do in fact decode a digital signal. I suppose my biggest question now is what cable would I use if I have a SPDIF out? I don't see a red light coming out of the realtek output so I assume it's a coax not an optical out. Is there a mini coax or would it be a regular 1/8" jack that the decoder would have? I've seen an orange plug that looks like it would fit but I'm not sure.

Re: speakers: I'm in college and will be moving about over the next year or so (quite possibly abroad) and don't feel like lugging around 5.1 speakers with me everywhere. That and I'd rather not bother anyone with a crazy woofer, either

 

What's your budget? If you want high quality sound, get a headphone amp or DAC.

http://www.headphone.com/headphone-amps/headroom-total-airhead.php

 

I didn't think it's optical either that means you need a 3.5mm (1/8") minijack to RCA cable. Try to find/borrow a 5.1 system from someone just so you can test your set-up before you purchase those 5.1 headphones you found.

 

Those are not 5.1 headphones. They're stereo 2.0 look at the jack that goes to the headphones. You have Left, Right And Gnd. He wants the real deal.

 

I think I can help you. As long as your laptop really is 5.1 capable (check this in the control panel), you can get real 5.1 output through speakers or real 5.1 heaphones for a little over $100 with Zalman products.

You need the Zalman 5.1 channel sound card with usb input--this means it uses the computer's battery--no separate electical or battery necessary. It has three 3.5 mm headphone jacks, 1 for front left and right, 1 for rear left and right and 1 for center/SW. Buy Zalman's real 5.1 heaphones (49usd) and plug them into the sound card.

You can also plug the sound card into your home theatre system (youe only need three RCA--> 3.5 mm male connector cords) and hear the 5.1 through your home theatre. It is all analog.

these items are all available on amazon.com.

 

In my experience 5.1 headphones are not that great. When the drivers are so close together you really can't differentiate the direction. Throw in all the horrible phase issues of having multiple drivers at different distances and you have an expensive set of 5.1 headphones that sound worse than a cheap set of stereo headphones.
You will have "better" imaging from something like a Dolby Headphone type algorithm. This is only true for headphones. Obviously a 5.1 or greater speaker setup is far better than any algorithm.
I know this isn't what you want to hear and you'll probably have another condescending reply because of it. But, I cringe at the thought of someone spending $100+ on 5.1 headphones. There is a reason they typically get mediocre reviews.

If you do spring for a $250 5.1 headphone set you might get okay surround sound but $250 would buy you a much better set of stereo headphones.
A surround algorithm + a set of stereo headphones that have really great imaging will sound pretty good. A cheap set of headphones that have terrible imaging + a surround algorithm will sound really bad. Keep in my I'm not talking about some crap stereo expander effect; I'm talking about a true surround algorithm that treats each channel separately.

 

He does not have those outputs required by the product you mentioned. He only has SPDIF OUT. Pay attention to the thread before you post please!

 

Excuse me, OP doesn't say spdif only.

How do you know absolutely his system can't support this or be made to.

think before you respond like a jackass!

there are about 8 unhelpful posts and you say this to me?

 

That's not a good way to introduce yourself. The person that opened this thread decides what's helpful or not.

 

From OP

"Some way of outputting 5.1 sound from my laptop, either via SPDIF or by other means"

Other means, that means means other than SPDIF.

You Sir should read more carefully yourself

I introduced myself by trying to be helpful, and I get rudeness from you.

 

I'm sorry and I appologize if you feel somehow offended by my comments. I would never make anyone feel sorry or feel like he's not welcome.

 

I agree that real 5.1 headphones are lacking in some capacity, but I like it much better than simulated surround sound. I've got hundreds of multichannel music recordings and real 5.1 is the only way I'd listen. You don't really have to spend $250 unless you want to the new Psyko 5.1 headphones--I don't know how good they are, but there at least two much cheaper alternatives. The products I mentiond in my earlier post can now be purchased for well under 100 dollars--still don't know if the OP can use them, but that's what I've been doing and it works great.

Twiz57--it's ok I have a short memory.

 

Depending on your budget and how much money you want to part with their are the Roccat Kaves http://www.roccat.org/Products/Gaming-Sound/ROCCAT-Kave/, ive personally got a pair and highly rate them, they feature 4 speakers in each ear including a sub plus vibration function in each cup to simulate that cinema sound. Running through my HDX onboard 5.1 chip they sound crap, running them through a X-fi surround USB they sound so much better. The X-fi USB is not without its issues mind you are took me days to get working properly.

 

One other thing worth noting, since spdif was mentioned, is that the soundcard I mentioned above also has optical/coax outputs, which makes it very versatile in its price range.

BTW, I have no affiliation with the company (Zalman), but I have used their products; they work well and are affordable, so I feel comfortable recommending them. Good luck

 

I would also recommend the roccat kave as it is a true 5.1 headset without the need for a "virtual sound" effect. However you need a 5.1 capable sound card with 4 jacks. This is more of a desktop solution as most laptop manufacturers don't put too much effort in putting a great onboard sound cards. If you use usb or express card solutions for 5.1 sound, it's all a gimmick with everything essentially being "virtualized" in the end plus it takes on cpu resources. X-fi is great as a dedicated sound card for desktops, but that usb x-fi go and express card are crap for the upgrade you are expecting going from onboard audio.Yes I know its apples and oranges from laptop and desktop talk.

 

I have yet to see a good 5.1 solution for a notebook, since most headphones only use 2 drivers and hence will always simulate 5.1. I posted the DAC because many audiophiles use and recommend it, plus it will definitely give you an improvement over any consumer expresscard or integrated notebook audio. If you're still adamant about 5.1 surround sound only, then I don't know of any good solutions for you. Hopefully, someone else does.

 

To be fair the USB X-fi does the job its supposed to and is defo an upgrade over my onboard sound being a 16channel chip and X-fi being 64 Channels but the drivers are a pain to get working and my desk is full of bits lol.

 

I have no objections to that, I am assuming you are using the x-fi 5.1 usb sound card. 16 channels and 64 channels? are you using the right descriptors?

 

Sorry voices lol.

 

SORRY FOR THE LONG POST!
TL;DR:
I currently have 5.1 SPDIF out only BUT might look into either a 5.1 external card OR a 7.1 docking module for my X-Fi Notebook
Actual 5.1 < Virtual surround sound
Speakers > Headphones BUT I can't lug around speakers so headphones it is.

Possible surround sound solutions in order of most feasible to least:
-Use my Realtek SPDIF 5.1 output
-Buy a 7.1 Speaker Docking Module for my X-Fi
-Get a Zalman/Creative 5.1 USB card

Possible headphones/headsets I'm looking into include:
-Roccat Kaves (do these have SPDIF input?)
-Zalman 5.1's (do these have SPDIF input?)
-Tritton AX51 Pros (has all inputs known to man including USB)

Wow guys, thanks for all the replies! Hopefully I can address most of the above:

These look alright but they're not quite what I'm looking for. Twiz57 hit this point already--but thanks for the suggestion!

Unfortunately I don't have a digital 5.1 system I can connect to. I have two 2.1 systems I can hook into and simulate some surround sound stuff but they're analog systems. However the important part is that if it's a 3.5mm to RCA cable that the digital is broadcast on, then I'm more confident in the headphones I've seen that have what looks like an orange 3.5mm cable going into a sound card.

Definitely will keep the two USB sound cards I've seen (one from Zalman and one from Creative) on the drawing board. I think I'll keep this option as my backup in case the X-Fi and SPDIF out fail me. Thanks!

Got it. I still think from the reviews I've seen I'm willing to risk my money on a true 5.1 headset. Most of the reviews I've seen from the >$150 ones have griped about build quality, but not so much the directionals.
That is an interesting point you made about phases of sound, though. I didn't consider that and I feel like that must make it inevitable to have certain frequencies and harmonics constructively and destructively interfere given the very fixed spacing from drivers to ears. The headphones I'm looking into now do in fact have the Dolby name plastered to the title, so perhaps there's some hope. As for your cringing, I don't mean to do it to you but I think the marketing departments of these companies might have me soon lol

Agreed, I'm keeping your aforementioned stuff on the drawing board.

Sounds like it sounds awesome! See my reply to Buckits' post re: SPDIF if you could

Hahaha you should get commission

Right now SPDIF out is the only way I can get 5.1 out, but I don't mind getting a 7.1 connector for the X-Fi. Or if there's really no other option I'd call wanners and ask where to buy a USB Zalman adapter and give him commission lol

You get a medal for being awesome and owning up to what you've done, intentionally or not. It's hard to find that in these forums sometimes. Thank you both of you for not turning this into a flame contest.

Thanks, and thank you more for recognizing the difference between 2 drivers and 8 drivers. I think in this case I'm more concerned with channels over quality, but definitely good to keep that adapter in mind.

Well turns out that's pretty much what I'm looking for. I'll note the roccat kave and look into making it compatible with 5.1 from my notebook. Do you know by chance if this supports SPDIF?
I think the higher end USB 5.1's are legit 5.1 outs (multiple jacks), whereas my expresscard x-fi only does 2->5ch virtualization unless I get that infernal speaker docking module which I CANNOT FIND ANYWHERE BY ITSELF ANYMORE
I know it'll use CPU, but I overclock by a good deal anyway so hopefully the overclock + actual surround sound > loss of fps.

 

They don't support SPDIF (roccat kaves). and the search continues.... lol

I'm stumped!

 

look at the turtle beach usb sound adapters. The have 5.1 spdif outputs *and* conventional 2 channel headphone outputs. Nice stuff.

For 2 channel sound, why not at least consider a bluetooth 2.1 edr adapter and matching headphones?

 

Aw well. Worth the try, thanks!

The Turtle Beach adapters look good, but I'm more concerned with connectors for headphones at this point.

AD2P is just terrible quality. There's no way I'd get bluetooth headphones for a laptop, much less another set of 2ch headphones.


------------

I did find these ones that are reasonably priced from Newegg and have a USB port plugin: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826235006

Can't be much worse than the Logitech G35's, I'll bet.

 

The main problem with the Turtle Beach USB connectors is that their 5.1 out comes through a S/PDIF line (except for the SRM, which comes with their proprietary 5.1 connector as well as the S/PDIF output). This means that you'll still need to find a S/PDIF reciever or a pair of headphones that accept a S/PDIF input, which with your existing card, should mean that you wouldn't need the device in the first place.

Personally, my notebook only came with a stereo out microphone jack, so I picked up a set of Turtle Beach AK-R8s a year or so ago for around $100 which came with the SRM USB adaptor included.

Actually, poking around on their web store, I notice that they also sell a "Surround Breakout Cable" that could connect their SRM to an analog 5.1 speaker system... which means it could probably also connect to a 5.1 analog plug equipped (Center/Sub, Front, Surround) pair of headphones...

 

Yeah definitely true, no sense in redundancy. How are the Turtle Beach headsets in terms of quality? I had something by them a while ago and it wasn't exceptionally good...

 

This is a great thread, will follow this for a while.

Unfortunately, I'm stumped on how to do this through s/pdif outputs. Zalman headphones do not support s/pdif. curious to see what the solution will be.

I do take issue with some of the statements here such as: If you use usb or express card solutions for 5.1 sound, it's all a gimmick with everything essentially being "virtualized" in the end plus it takes on cpu resources

I get real 5.1 from a usb soundcard, it takes no extra cpu resources, and (as I said before), it works well for me. Every 5.1 encoded movie or music file that I can play on my computer, I can listen to in real 5.1 either on headphones or through my home theatre system--it is no gimmick.

 

If you're asking sound quality, I'm probably not enough of an audiophile to give a good account, and I don't really play any FPS games or anything where the directionality would really kick in. >.>

As for build quality, these replaced a Logitech Precision set that had one of the speaker sets blow out after a year, and when I was looking around for a recommended set of headphones (sorry, I can't remember where I was poking around at the time) Turtle Beach came pretty highly recommended. They generally just sit around at home, since they're a little too bulky to pack well, but I haven't had any problems with them.

 

Ok the headphones you are after are the Shakoon X-tatic 5.1 Digital, 8 speakers including a SPDIF input, you will pay a pretty price for them, though they do get very good reviews. I believe they are comprable to the Triton AX pros and look like they use the same audio unit.

http://www.sharkoon.com/html/produkte/headsets/x-tatic_digital/index_en.html?id=2

 

Me too

I think all USB sound cards require a little extra CPU overhead since it's the CPU that's controlling the sound most of the time. My expresscard X-Fi does not have an actual X-Fi chip on it and uses 2-5% CPU when playing music with a bunch of enhancements. It's small but not a "dedicated" card.

Sweet, duly noted. Thanks for the minireview!

These look awesome BUT they're a bit expensive and I can only find them on eBay. I do like the microphone placement, though. They seem to get better reviews than the Trittons, too.

Thanks all, still mulling over what to do/how much to reasonably spend... I'm leaning towards a USB headset or something that can do SPDIF like the Sharkoons, but less expensive I hope!

 

don't forget that Plantronics makes a serious set of gaming/listening headphones.

No one knows more about headphone engineering and construction than Plantronics.

The 'big four' in headphones are

Plantronics
Telex
David Clark
Motorola

Everyone pretty much licenses tech from them and doesn't do much more than glue on fancy (cosmetic) plastic bits. Even Motorola licenses a fair amount of tech from the top three.