Display failing-perennial problem of Consumer Laptops

I purchased my first notebook Toshiba Satellite A60 in 2005 having ATI Mobility Radeon 7000IGP. The laptop lasted 2 years and died in 2007. It had a one year warranty.

My second laptop HP Pavilion dv9312tx was purchased in 2007. It died finally in December 2010. I had 3 year warranty. This one had 4 motherboard replacements because of faulty NVIDIA Geforce Go 7600. My tryst with HP was detailed in NBR forums however since the class action lawsuit was valid only in USA, Indian customers were left high and dry by HP. I promised to never buy any HP product in future.

Then I purchased Sony VAIO E series having Mobility Radeon 5650 in December 2010. The warranty was for 3 years. Now in December 2014, the laptop display is failing with vertical lines and artifacts and sudden shutdown. I am writing this post on this same laptop waiting for it to die .

My perspective:

Are all consumer laptops more prone to heat failures? I believe business laptops are more durable and have solid built quality. Majority of them don't have dedicated graphic cards and they all come with 3 years warranty standard.

Can somebody enlighten me as to whether I should go for a business laptop like Thinkpad, Latitude or a Tecra?

 

All electronics are prone to heat failures (period).

Doesn't matter what you buy, if you use it often and fully in extreme temp/humidity settings, something will eventually give.

The ThinkPad line is what I would recommend if you want a solid/dependable business notebook. But even the high end models won't withstand what is essentially abuse (high/constant workloads in high ambient temps/humidity environments).

 

If you don't need rapid 3D graphics (gaming or 3D design) then avoid anything with a separate GPU.

Also look for Latitude deals at Dell Outlet (if India doesn't have its own branch of Dell outlet there's likely to be someone sell ex-outlet stock). Not only can you get business quality build at consumer PC price but also a detailed service manual and the wide availability of spare parts means that any problems can be fixed.

John

 

There lies the problem. I love gaming. But because of constantly failing motherboards in today's laptops I am being forced to look at safer options like going for business laptops and sacrificing my gaming needs. Because at the end of the day it is extreme heat that is killing my laptops and coupled that with pathetic after sales service in India I am losing interest in laptop gaming in order to keep my laptop more durable. For example take Thinkpad E431 and Ideapad Z50. Both are from Lenovo and are similarly priced. But even though I want the Ideapad for its gaming potential I shudder at the prospect of getting it fried.

 

Does anyone in India sell Clevo notebooks? They are built for gaming. The main notebook brands give higher priority to thin and sleek designs which are marginal on cooling capacity. It's one of my grievances (and I only use the Intel graphics) that as the CPU power rating drops then the fan gets smaller so the notebooks are still noisy under full load.

Otherwise build yourself a desktop for gaming: There is plenty of space for big fans.

John

 

Both Sager and Clevo are not available in India. And even if we manage to bring one from US or Europe, there is nobody to provide any After Sales Service for these brands in India. So I am thinking of going for either Dell Latitude, Lenovo Thinkpad or Toshiba Tecra. What do you think of the Latitude's build quality?

 

If you expecting hardcore gaming like WOW or Crysis or GTA or COD none of those will fill these requirements especially on laptop. You only choice is to order and have a laptop sent to you should there be no other sellers of Sager, Celveo, Asus, or Fangbook evo then your gaming horizon will be very limited.

 

I know that is why I am thinking to buy a business notebook and not to play any games on it. I might have to go for a desktop to play the latest games since I have burnt my fingers thrice on Toshiba , HP, and Sony

 

Just remember what the other posters said no laptop is immune to heat/dust regardless business or consumer versions.

 

Yeah true but here in India the service centres are a real pain and the people behave as if they have made me a favour by selling the laptop. Plus business laptops come with 3 years warranty as standard and are built robustly

 

I'm currently using a Latitude E7440 but it's only 4 months old so too early to pass judgement on durability. However, it feels quite rugged and is built to be easily serviced (such as cleaning out the cooling system) and my main complaint is that the fan should have been a size bigger so that it can run more quietly at full CPU load.

My previous Latitudes have been superseded before they gave any problems but the people I sold them to never came back with complaints about anything breaking.

John

 

I had an Asus G73JH for 4 years before I sold it and it worked perfectly even when I sent it off to the buyer... Asus aren't known for reliablity when it came to their G series laptops with the G50/51/70/71/72 being junk... The G73JH for a new start and after that, they've been unbeatable especially with the G751.. I've used HP and Sony before and I can tell you. they're junk and I'd never buy them again... In fact, there are 2 companies IMO which I'd buy from.. Asus and Clevo... Asus has global warranty so if you want a gaming laptop, G751 is a good bet...

 

The problem is in India, the service people either employ dimwits or they just read from scripted texts. Just yesterday I had a web chat with Sony India. When I told him I have Windows 8.1 Pro installed, he replied that Sony doesn't recommend customization since the notebook originally came with Win 7 Home Premium. Then he added that I should check in BIOS for knowing the issue. I was so disgusted I just closed the chat then and there. After exiting the PC business, the least Sony could have done is to provide good acceptable customer service for Vaio. But it seems that Sony used to be always like this. I will first try for repair of the notebook. However here in my place they swap faulty motherboards for refurbished mobos and that too it costs a fortune. They provide warranty for six more months from the date of swapping. If the costs become astronomical, I will have no other option but to go for another brand.

 

I thought there was at least one seller of Clevo notebooks that's based in Malaysia. Surely it would be easier to get service there than having to buy a system from North America.

 

As per my knowledge there are no resellers of Clevo and Sager in India.
I was just browsing the web when I came across this:
Laptop

I am actually lucky I had no problems in the last 4 years for this Vaio E series.

 

Out of business laptops mainly workstations come with decent graphics. I bought used HP 8560w with Quadro 2000M, it's docked to two 24" monitors. I can run WoW in 1680x1050 window decently, from 30 to 70fps. While playing fullscreen video on another screen. This isn't my gaming computer (got a desktop for that) but older titles run okay in general. New models have even better graphics but in general those workstations are way over the price limit.

I had one of those 17" HP dv9000 series machines too. Perfect example of a laptop that should not have been made. AMD x2 CPU (hot) combined with a GPU that doesn't withstand hot-cold-hot transformations. It ran so hot that even display hinge got stuck and broke the display frame.

 

Yeah I agree HP screwed it up badly with that nvidia chips issue.
And Dell precision laptops are enticing. But they are way above my budget.

 

What about Precision from an ebay reseller? You get standard 3y warranty. Afaik Dell has support in India.

 

Sometimes the service in America is exactly the same, FYI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

There also lies another catch. Major manufacturers like Dell, Toshiba, and Lenovo have notified recently that laptops bought from e-commerce sites like Flipkart, eBay and others will not be entertained under warranty.

 

Can you provide link to that statement. I understand that getring warranty by just serial number can be seen as servicing stolen goods but with a valid ownership transfer i really dont see an issue.

 

Dell Laptops and Ultrabook™ - Compare Latest Models | Dell India

Lenovo: Flipkart, Snapdeal and Amazon not our authorized resellers - The Times of India

Dell issues a Snapdeal warning - SocialDaily India

It has become very common here that people buying from any e-commerce sites like e-bay, flipkart,amazon,etc are denied warranties by authorized service centers.

 

That's shocking...If they tried to pull such a stunt here in the UK, they'd be screwed so badly by the regulator!!

 

Its almost like no regulation here. Consumer rights are gone for a toss. That's why all brands dare to give such statements. By the way can anyone tell how is the radeon 8850m as compared to mobility radeon 5650? The Dell latitude 3000 series comes with one.

 

To compare GPU performance see notebookcheck's mobile GPU benchmark list.

John

 

I wouldn't say all consumer laptops are prone to heat failures, but indeed they generally aren't built to be as durable as business laptops. Really, it comes down to that, for the most part, they're more likely to fail, more likely to run hot, and so forth. It's playing the odds, and while your laptops haven't always had the best odds (HP Pavilion in particular), it doesn't sound like you've been beating those odds, either.

In terms of GPUs failing, it might be worth looking into a laptop with a replaceable GPU. They're the exception rather than the rule, but can be nice in those situations. The standard to look for is called MXM. You could probably get a used Precision with MXM, and then you'd have the freedom to upgrade the GPU yourself both if you wanted a performance upgrade, and if it failed. The downside is a used Precision would be less likely to carry a warranty, but that raises the question of whether warranty or reliability is really the issue. IMO, while a good warranty can indicate confidence in reliability, if there's good reliability (and especially if there's also good user-serviceability) on a used laptop, not having warranty is acceptable. On my Inspiron, for example, if the GPU failed, I could replace it with another one of the same model for $40 or less shipped, and be back in business. I recently bought a used HP EliteBook with the same idea - it's well-built, and while it's out of warranty, should something fail I ought to be able to replace it myself, and it's much cheaper than something new. New ones are pretty expensive, but with each generation you go back they get successively cheaper while still being more powerful than anything with an integrated GPU (including Iris Pro and Kaveri) today.

Another manufacturer who may be worth considering, if they sell in India, is MSI (Micro Star International). They tend to focus on the consumer gaming market, and are less expensive than workstations. I'm not an expert on them, but they at least don't go for thinness-at-all-costs-including-cooling like many of the mainstream players.

The other options are looking at Iris Pro, HD 4600, or Kaveri laptops. Intel graphics still suck compared to dedicated ones, but less than they used to. Although if gaming mobility isn't important, it may make sense to instead go with a desktop + cheap laptop for when you need mobility. Desktops also are a lot better, in general, for being able to fix things yourself at a fraction of the cost of the whole system.

 

I have to search on MSI since they are well known in motherboards here. Will be checking out latitude and thinkpad. Any idea about tecra?

 

I won't read this whole topic because there is a simple way for this problem: If you want to play games then buy gaming laptops. If you need office and portability then buy thin business notebooks, if you are fine with casual PC tasks then buy consumer laptops. And if after this some of those fail you then never buy this again... and yeah, use vacuum cleaner for cleaning room and monitor temperatures. That is obvious.

 

Except the difference is prominent manufacturers tout their consumer laptops with graphic cards as gaming laptops. And when they fry out the machine, they all parrot that it is only meant for casual gaming. There is a fine line between casual and serious gaming .

 

If laptop has a gaming GPU that doesn't mean that it is gaming laptop

 

The VAIO gave in last night. And for the first time in nine years I have no functional laptop. Now only the lights glow without any display. And I think even if I get it cleaned after opening it display won't come back unless I get a motherboard replacement

 

That sucks ... But good excuse now to get a new laptop

 

He he true . but I will first try to get it repaired. If its too much for pocket then time to get my fourth one

 

Which one performs better with games: radeon 8850m in latitude 3540 or geforce 750m in inspiron. By the way I can afford to wait for a nice mid range GPU.

 

If you can wait, do so. I am assuming that you have a system currently that is adequate and/or no system is needed by saying 'can afford to wait'.

I am eagerly waiting for what Q2 2015 brings us.

 

I can afford to wait because my mobile is currently enough for me to be online

 

Have you tried an external monitor?

 

Not till now but the notebook is going to the local laptop repair guy on 22nd since he is presently out of station. I really loved the GPU the mobility radeon 5650. It was a tireless performer.

 

I opened the laptop today on my own. On opening it up I see some sticky substance on the part on the right side of the fan
Has something melted?
Not much dust is there inside the laptop. Even the fan strangely looks clean after 4 years of operation

 

Yuck... Have you tried blowing it out with some compressed air? I'm not sure if it's something has melted or just some moss or something.. It looks like mould to me..

 

Its sticky. Darkish in colour. Are you sure it's not molten stuff or maybe thermal paste like compound. I wonder how can mould or fungus grow there. Sorry but I don't have any compressed air. Today got delivery of the screwdriver toolkit so thought of opening the laptop up. But I doubt it can be removed by compressed air.
The flash on my mobile camera caused the reflection

 

It's probably just two-sided tape and remains of a dust filter.

If you smoked, then similar looking stuff would be inside the fan though

 

Omg remains looks like the spongy stuff and tape melted due to extreme heat caused by 200 hrs of oblivion and 400 hrs of skyrim

 

Sony = Fail laptops

 

I agree but it lasted for 4 years which is more than HP's 3.5 yrs and Toshiba's 2.5 years and that too after inflicting horrible punishment

 

Well, one can definitely attest to the problem of consumer grade technology failing over time... but it also doesn't have to.
It depends on several factors: build quality, cooling, etc.
All manufacturers conform to the notion of 'cost efficiency' ... as such, they use monetarily cheap materials (as opposed to superior synthetic materials) in order to cut costs, resulting in relatively poor cooling, thermals, build quality of electronics as well as the casing, etc.
For decades we had thousands of synthetic derivatives with superior properties that can be produced in sustainable abundance... the problem is that building things to last is not what capitalism does... planned obsolescence is its goal as well as using outdated science and methods of production.

But, putting that aside for the moment... the laptop you see in my signature is over 6 years old.
I'm using it still.
The only thing that failed after 5 years was the backlight (plus I had to replace the keyboard twice) because it uses CCFL as opposed to say LED's - and I had that replaced.
I keep the laptop clean of dust by cleaning its internals once or twice per year - and I usually reapply the thermal paste to the GPU and CPU in those intervals.
The cooling in my laptop is generally considered poor, but I was able to undervolt both the CPU and GPU and bring down overall temperatures during gaming (and I can assure you that this laptop saw loads of gaming on it over the years).

So, while electronic failure can and does happen, if you keep the temperatures within tolerance levels and maintain the system, the laptop should theoretically continue to function for years to come.
One could conceivably see a laptop functioning for well over 6 years like that... but if your upgrade cycle is in the range of about 4 years (which it usually would be for me), then practically any laptop should be able to hold on to that time frame.

Though, I have to say I am disappointed by the past generation high end hardware seemingly failing after 1 year of use (as reported by some users)... such as high end GPU's.

I don't think business laptops are necessarily an exception here.
They might have an overall better build quality, but realistically, nothing is stopping the manufacturers of creating exceedingly powerful materials that would be thin, light and highly resistant to various drops or kicks, not to mention help regulate the temperatures a lot better than what we see right now.
They just don't want to spend the cash on it, let alone create hardware or components that actually LAST.
They want you to buy new stuff on a regular basis - which is probably why they make it very difficult to reach the internal components on most laptops these days (usually, the simplest approach would be to remove the back panel and have access to everything you need for basic cleaning maintenance and upgrades).

 

Have you looked into mobile workstations? Lenovo Thinkpad W-series, Dell Precisions, and HP ZBooks have the superior build quality of business notebooks with dedicated graphics that allow for gaming. And if their prices are above your budget, you can look into the manufacturers' outlet stores, which sell refurbished or scratch and dent systems for considerably less than you could buy them otherwise.

 

FYI: the reason most consumer systems cut corners with materials is because people don't want to pay more for them. Business systems generally have higher margins for the manufacturer, which allows them to use better materials. As a result, consumer systems have a 16-24% failure rate after 3 years (based on a SquareTrade study), whereas business systems have a 11-14% failure rate after the same amount of time (based on a study by Lenovo).

There is even a niche for the really high-grade build materials you're talking about: rugged systems. They're built strong enough to withstand nearly anything, but they cost multiple times more than a consumer or business system with similar computing capabilities.

 

Today I gave the VAIO to the local laptop repair shop. They charged me 76 dollars(about 4800 rupees) , serviced, cleaned the laptop and repaired the motherboard. The GPU was resoldered I believe since they didn't reveal the details. All in all the laptop is functioning well and idle temps at 44 degree Celsius and at load going upto 70 degree Celsius. I am typing this post from the repaired VAIO:thumbsup:

 

Well that's not too bad of an outcome.. If it's enough for you and going strong, keep using