Downgrade SSD --> 7200rpm HDD. ZzzZZzzZzzZZz

Earlier this morning, I had to boot off of an old drive image that I had. I swapped out my Intel X25-M 80GB SSD for a Hitachi 7K320 7200rpm mechanical HDD.

There was a tremendous (and noticeable) drop in performance and overall smoothness. It would be as if someone took your broadband connection, and replaced it with a 56Kbps dial-up modem.

Video posted, SSD vs HDD - Windows 7 Boot + Launching MSOffice apps on Identical Drive Images

+ Identical cloned drive image on SSD and HDD
+ HDD was booted up and defragged (for Windows to auto-detect and install drivers)
+ Windows 7 Boot (0:21 vs 0:44)
+ Windows 7 Desktop (0:26 vs 1:25)
+ windows 7 Finish Booting, Load 3 Office Apps, Load Google Chrome (0:44 vs 2:44)​

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I'm pretty sure most people already realize the large difference between SSD and HDD.

 

i dont — post pls

 

SSDs change the way people interact with their computer. Whenever I use an HDD based system nowadays, I have to keep in mind that I should start programs 1 at a time and wait for each program to fully load as opposed to clicking as fast as I can on the taskbar icons.

For someone used to HDDs, the initial difference when moving to an SSD is noticeable, but it's not truly significant until you get into the SSD mindset and your usage patterns change, so the downgrade is both technical and psychological.

 

+1 10Char.

 

+2 please post

 

Difference in booting - yes.
Other than that... I'm not really convinced

 

First post updated. Video is now included.

 

You seem to frequently post that you're unconvinced about the benefits of SSDs, and that they aren't worth the money.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I'd suggest that you try using an SSD first before you make a decision on whether or not they are worth it. It would be like a 56Kbps dial-up modem user constantly saying how broadband connections aren't worth the money, even though they have never tried using a broadband connection before.

Try using an SSD first. I have yet to hear about a single person who has used an SSD, and didn't like it.

 

Yep, it's about what I expected. Watching you boot off the HDD was painful. So much so that I had to stop watching and just let the video run in the background while I checked some stuff.

 

Kent1146, that is so depressing, why oh why?? lol

My only 2 laptops that I use on a consistent basis that don't have an SSD are running Windows XP, and aside from slow bootup, they are quite responsive..

 

"For someone used to HDDs, the initial difference when moving to an SSD is noticeable, but it's not truly significant until you get into the SSD mindset and your usage patterns change, so the downgrade is both technical and psychological."

I tried moving back and found the above to be absolutely true. There is some truth in that you will not fully appreciate the difference until you try to go back.

Now, life is good again. Outlook is open as soon as I can see the icon to click on, and I can click on Photoshop next and they will both POP open.

Trust me when I tell you, this is the future, and it is here now.

 

Yeah, SSD's seem great at first, then hohum as you use it. But until you go back to HDD, it's hard to really tell the performance improvement.

Now whether or not that improvement is worth the cost of SSD to you or not is another story. They're still expensive, especially if you need a 240-256GB as a single SSD solution. But if you can use two drives, a 60GB is more than adequate for OS and apps and reasonably priced.

 

Haha that first part is totally true. After going to FiOS you are like this is great...then that feeling dissipates. Then you go to a friend's house who has Comcast then you appreciate your FiOS more..

I gotta agree with that 2nd part too, though how many people "need" an SSD? Very very small population actually need it vs an SSD being a plaything/something nice to have.

 

nice work with one hand for that video man

 

+1 to the "you appreciate it once it's taken away from you" feeling

at first i was like "yeah, nice, fast.." (from 4200rpm indeed)

but getting to work the next day on a hdd pc, that was hell.

 

Nice video. Rep given. Concur on bouncing back and forth SSD to HDD - Home systems (also used for work) with SSDs, Work systems are normally 4200 RPM systems.
At work - start computer go get cup of coffee (slowly get it BTW) and hope system is ready.
For those who claim their HDD is good enough - try an SSD for responsiveness and truly for multitasking. His example is the video is a great example. My serious work involving multiple apps I do with my home systems - just too painful with work ones. What my system will respond with in seconds takes time much like his video.
If time you spend waiting for your HDD is unimportant to you, stick with a HDD, if time is important in what you must accomplish - time for a SSD.

 

I don't know what you mean by 'truly multitasking', multitasking may or may not involve lots of read/write from storage.

I have SSD at work, scorpio black at home. Both have almost all my frequently used applications opened all the time(seldom close them). Both use sleep/resume so no time to wait for coffee(within 2 seconds I get my working environment back from previous day).

 

chimpanzee:

what he means is, if you access multiple things at once that are on different places on disk, the system gets a massive slowdown. not with an ssd. there, accessing two things at once is just the same as accessing one after the other. on a hdd, it's a no-go.

 

that is very true and the best example is windows boot up where lots of tasks needs to start.

Though for many people, that is the only time we see this dramatic gain and such deficiency can be mitigated in other ways.

Of course this very much depends on individual. My boss is using the same machine configuration as me and he loves the change to SSD because he is the kind of person who would only open one application at a time and close it immediately when done. And choose to reboot his machine multiple times a day(always think that a rebooted machine is cleaner and faster).

 

ADATA 2.5" 128GB SATA II Solid State Drive -- 209$+tax

Western Digital Scorpio Black (WD5000BEKT) 500GB SATA 7200 RPM -- 63$+tax

Do I need to explain more why no speed difference would ever make me buy ssd ??

3 times the price for 4 time less space, screw that ...

 

yeah, because you're a cheap ?

guess what? no matter how much more they cost, they're so much more worth than your 500gb hdd..

i have the hdds for the data storage (in my home server). ssds only in any pc. there's no way i could go back to your way of living, it's such a piece of.. unenjoyment.


just combine the costs of your laptops you've listed in there, and then say "I have payed that much, am I 150$ too cheap to getting a much faster system?". well, i prefer to invest my money well. not the fastest cpu, but the fastest computer overall. there, ssds definitely win.

 

Toyota Camry. Seats 5, 35 cuft of trunk space. $30,000 USD

Ferrari. Seats 2, no trunk. $150,000 USD.

If you want the smart, efficient buy, you get a Toyota Camry. But if you want Ferrari performance, you gotta buy a Ferrari

 

except you're actually smart buying an ssd, as it's great bang for the buck. while the ferrari will just increase all other costs (more tickets to pay, more gasoline..)

 

Saying what's "smart" is silly. Some people need performance, some people need capacity, some people are buying on a budget.

 

I noticed the difference with my SSD in my toshiba, from the 5400RPM and 7200RPM, but I decided to accept the slightly slower speeds in the 7200rpm hd. I was noticing the slowness in loading and multitasking on my 5400RPM, but needed the extra space of an HD so for now I am just using the 7200RPM HD in my toshiba. I have the ssd ready to use though and constantly updated, But I think other than most of the space being music I can probably manage with the SSD.

 

smart may be the wrong word.

I would express it this way. If you have X dollar to spend on top of your 'initial budget'(say an existing notebook or a new one cost Y dollar), spending that X dollar on SSD usually would make the machine feel nicer to use than on faster CPU, fast GPU, extra 8GB RAM, another 1TB HDD.

 

still smart, as buying it has lots of benefits. There are much worse ways to spend money on. A 100mhz cpu upgrade costing the same as an ssd, for example.
Being a smart choise doesnt make it the right choise for everyone.

 

Most people who would opt for $250+ CPU upgrades (and $1500+ laptops) do get an SSD though - with such a high budget, there's plenty of money to spare after you've maxed out the CPU, GPU, RAM, and display upgrade options. It's the people buying sub-$800 notebooks who think SSDs are too expensive, and for those laptops CPU upgrades are closer to $50.

 

yet it's exactly those who get the biggest benefit from it. they get a bigger benefit than ranting over their <800$ laptop, and then plan to buy a 1500$ laptop next (mostly apple, because, you know, everyone wants that).

suddenly, an ssd is dirt cheap for what you get. a <800$ laptop + ssd is often better balanced in performance than a 1500$ laptop without ssd (and still much more cheap).

so it's the smart choice to know your budget, then get the best laptop for it, substract the cost for an ssd, reduce the laptop on cpu/ram a bit to get the cost of the ssd out of it, and get that.

you can sell the hdd, then, too (if it's an aftermarket ssd), giving you some bucks back, too (sold mine for around 70$ i think).

 

Hmm, I'm not so sure about that. There might not be much of a difference between a $1250 laptop and a $1500 laptop, but there's a world of difference between a $550 laptop with a Pentium P6000 (or worse yet an ancient T4500), 3GB of RAM, low quality 1366x768 screen, integrated graphics, and a cheap glossy plastic chassis with tons of keyboard flex versus an $800 laptop with a Core i5, 6GB of RAM, a decent 900p or even 1080p screen, switchable graphics, and a much more sturdy chassis that doesn't feel like it's going to fall apart the moment you wiggle the lid.

 

so you buy an ssd for 300$? (with the selling of the hdd)

i see nice ssds 120gb listed for <200$ here (switzerland), with the hdd refund you get it to <150$ additional cost. a 64gb ssd has an additional cost of around 50$ here. that's depending on the usecase, of course. but most with cheap laptops don't use much storage.

and i think the difference between a 550$ laptop and a 500$ laptop isn't that big.

as said, it's a matter on how to look at things. and it definitely depends on the price range.

but it's always a nice investment, and not that expensive. except if you really want to replace your STORAGE disk with it. then, it's ridiculous to get an ssd.

 

A 64GB SSD would be viable if you had 2 drive bays. Except most super cheap laptops don't.

I was therefore looking at 120GB SSDs. On Newegg, the X25-M 120GB and Corsair Force F120 are $230 and the C300 128GB is $265. The only sub-$200 120GB SSDs are last-gen Indilinx drives, Kingston's similarly low-performance value drives, and OCZ's gimped 25nm Vertex 2, none of which I can wholeheartedly recommend.

I suppose that selling the original HDD, which I hadn't factored in before, could help reduce the cost of the SSD, but there's no way a typical 250GB 5400 RPM used OEM drive with no packaging whatsoever could fetch $50.

 

i sold my 500gb 5400rpm hdd for nearly 100$. really depends, a bit a thing of luck it is, indeed. oh, and, a 64gb ssd is viable for a lot of users. not the typical nbr browser, but their moms and dads for sure.

 

The Dell computer I used in the video:
* is 3.5 years old.
* is using a Core 2 Duo CPU at 2.5Ghz
* has 4GB of RAM
* has a 1280x800 screen (lower res than 1366*768)
* ancient nVidia GeForce 8400M GPU

Pretty close to the $550 laptop you mentioned.

I'll bet that my 3.5 year-old laptop with it's 19-second boot time (26sec boot time to *usable* Windows Desktop - 7sec POST) will beat any other laptop on a 7200rpm mechanical hard drive... even the newest Sandy Bridge Core i3/i5/i7-based laptops. That performance advantage will grow even more when the user actually tries to do something useful, like load applications after getting to the Windows desktop.

Heck, I'll bet that even a netbook + SSD will beat most laptops with mechanical hard drives, because the mechanical HD is *THAT* much of a bottleneck. Over the past 20 years, every component within your computer has evolved to the point where it is several orders of magnitude faster than what you had 20 years ago; except the mechanical hard drive. We are only talking about half an order of magnitude (app. factor of 5x) faster than what we had 20 years ago.

The prices you are listing are retail. Nobody buys retail.

There are sales and rebates every few weeks for Intel X25-M and SandForce SF-1200 drives (G.Skill Phoenix, Corsair F120) that will bring the price to around $200 USD.

Just last week, there was a sale on Intel X25-M 120GB drives for $177 USD, and the OCZ Agility 2 120GB for $135. In the next two weeks, you'll probably see a sale on SandForce SF-1200 drives. If you're serious about getting an SSD, just wait for a sale. They pop up all the time.

 

"Heck, I'll bet that even a netbook + SSD will beat most laptops with mechanical hard drives, because the mechanical HD is *THAT* much of a bottleneck."

Concur, and can tell you I have one in a netbook - my travel companion. Yes it is just as capable now as our some of our models at work.
The SSD does truly help transform your computer.

 

Well, naturally any computer with a SSD will outperform any computer with a mechanical hard drive... in hard drive intensive tasks.

 

problem is, most times where people experience a pc as being slow, it's stuck in some hard drive intensive task. on netbooks, the cpu can be bottleneck, too (my ex gets crazy when buying stuff on itunes on her netbook based on the cpu usage), but most of the times it's the hdd that blocks.

 

Guys - it is all a matter of whether it is worthy to the end-user!

SSD is an investment no matter how you look at it, compared to a HDD.

So the questions are:

1. Is 20-30 seconds faster boot time worth extra 200 bucks?
My personal answer would be - No, I boot once a week, I honestly don't care about those 30 seconds per week. My Laptop loads windows for less than a minute with 7200 rpm HDD anyway.

(Screenshot of my 48 seconds boottime attached, Do I want to buy additional 15 seconds for 200 bucks.... hmmmm, now that's a thinker)

2. Is 1-3 seconds shorter start time of a program worth 200 bucks?
IMO no, it only makes a negligible difference the very first time you run it. Then RAM becomes much more important than an SSD and the difference goes direction 0.

3. Is the constant fear and monitoring of SSD wearing out with time worth 200 bucks?
I say no, I don't want to care and worry about one more thing AND pay for this "pleasure".


SSD is certainly something we all will occasionally buy one day, but the question is is it worth buying one at today's prices!?

This is a question, whose answer depends on the personal usage and financial situation. I still prefer investing the money elsewhere, as I don't see enough benefit for my 200 bucks.

The example with the ferrari is not that wrong.... But don't forget that driving it in the city doesn't make you faster... you just wait longer on traffic lights AND pay extra price for that. My point is - unless you specifically need it for a fast highway (HDD intensive tasks, such as large data-base operations, servers, etc), the most you get for your money is the "right" to show off with the sticker on your laptop and the 3 letters in your signature.

But these are just my 2 cents for the day Take them or leave them

 

your 2 cents suck. 1 and 2 are worth it once you notice that especially 2 happens about everywhere (including opening a new tab on firefox and such), 3 is nonsense. there are people in need of fear over everything, that doesn't matter at all.

but the real fear of dropping and killing your laptops data is gone, that's worth some bucks. and the performance gains OVERALL are worth quite some bucks, too. because they're not just at the start, they're everywhere.

they're worth MORE to the end user than a fast gigahertz multicore cpu. they're worth MORE than having > 4gb ram.
they're worth MORE than having a superduper dedicated gpu with lots of rams.

this of course except the end user has a specific need for the highend cpu, the big ram, the high end gpu. but the ordinary user does NOT have those needs. nowadays mid end systems deliver full hd movies, allow to play some games, have enough ram for most needs, and the cpu is about never at 100%.

the only thing that those users can get to fix "my pc is slow" is an ssd. everything else has just a placebo effect at most.

so if someone has a bit of money to spend and is annoyed by the sometimes slow system he/she has, it's best spent on an ssd if the user has no specific other need.

 

Excuse me?? You are aware that modern PCs have protection for that.

And you are aware that IF your SSD goes bad - your data is gone forever, whereas it can ALWAYS (>99%) be recovered from a mechanical HDD one way or the other )

And opening tabs? Are you serious? I have 0 delay doing that even with 5400 RPM!

But well... placebo is part of the deal Every time I wash/clean my car I have the feeling it actually became faster You are entitled all these illusions for your 200 bucks, so no hard feelings

Reality is something else though. SSD only helps you load faster for the very first time. Everything else is up to the RAM and CPU almost entirely

One of the laptops I use has SSD - I'm not impressed at all. The only noticeable difference is starting and shutting down - it does take a few seconds less than mine (5-15). But I'm not ready to buy those seconds for 200 bucks, sorry. I don't really care - starting and shutting down 3-4 times a month.

 

well, protection yes or no, hdds still die on droppings. seen some friends killing their hdds like that, having done it myself, too. never on purpose.

i have backup. but my ssds won't go bad out of a physical reason. not any more than anything else of the system. a cpu doesn't die because of a physical shock.
the most likely thing happening to a laptop is a physical accident.

opening tabs can, depending on your setup slow down because of hdd issues. it depends on the setup, though (the plugins you use, the browser, etc).

and no, i know the reality, working with ssds and hdds since years now in parallel. ssds help for much more than "just the start". at least in my cases. if not in yours, then you have failed to set up your system correctly.

i do know, though, that other people are less sensitive to hickups and tiny slowdowns than i am. like others can't see wrong aspect ratios on tvs, or can't see the difference between vhs and fullhd bluray, etc. i can, and i care.

 

btw, in a non-general-consumer note: i use my laptops on stage, with up to 100db there that can vibrate the table quite a bit. now guess what would happen with the audio playback when the hdd sensor would all time block the hdd due to vibrations? exactly.. silence.. that only matters to the laptop, of course. still.

 

Perfect. Then we are both happy with the money we did or did not spend

Isn't this what everyone wants - happiness

I just described why I am not going to buy SSD soon. Your case is different, so is everyone's else

Enjoy your 200 bucks making videos of restarting your system... I'll enjoy mine another way for now

 

You obviously have 0 idea Never mind, everyone learns

P.s. I've used my laptop in mechanical laboratories and airport maintenance warehouses where I wished I was on stage - guess what - neither did my laptop stop responding nor is my HDD broken

But as I said - placebo is part of the deal Enjoy!

 

no, i enjoy them using them and experiencing the difference. the video was just once, and it was for a friend (that has for that laptop >5minutes boot time back then. 4200rpm).

so you fail to see the performance difference. great for you, not having to spend money on quality products. i can see the difference in about everything i do => i do definitely massively profit from the 200$ spent.

and my point was not that: my point was it's better spent than 200$ more on a cpu. without measuring it, you won't ever notice THAT difference.

 

i KNOW that it blocks the hdd, it DID happen. it happened to not be able to load the next track for over a minute. which can be quite annoying. check prodigy btw, they only use ssd on stage, too. same reason.

 

Well then bless SSDs!!! Apparently DJs did not use laptops on stage before SSDs were invented - either their protection engaged or their HDD was going bad by the end of the evening I wonder why so many parties, weddings and concerts were interrupted in the past

What a revolution about DJs... I've never seen a dj with a laptop on stage before

JEAS DUDE!!!

P.s. protection sensitivity can be set up according to the frequency and amplitude of environmental oscillations

And prodigy? I would be using high end of everything no matter if it brings much or nothing at all if I were prodigy
Do you earn as much as them? You could just buy the most expensive machine and smash it in the wall after the concert - who cares... why don't you do that?

 

i don't want to see the wedding dj that plays with >100db. no thanks

but btw, i've seen hdds die on stage, more than once. as well as at work, at home, on the go, etc..

 

Why is it that everytime Gracy and Dave show up in a thread--especially talking at each other--it devolves into off-topic shouting matches mixed with a double handful of thinly veiled insults? Sigh.


As for general responsiveness, my main laptop has an Intel G2 while my Dellienware has a Momentus XT. Even though the XT is a "super" HDD, I can still feel the difference. Difference enough for a casual user? I don't know. I do know that I picked the Momentus for the Dellienware because it's large capacity and I don't feel like lugging an external around. With my MSI the dual HDD capacity lets me have the best of both worlds.


But with that said, I picked the XT. I'm not going back to a mere 7200rpm vanilla HDD for my boot drive.