ES Cpu Downsides?

Any downsides or performance loss from using an ES (Engineering Sample) from eBay? Had my eye on an Extreme Core 2 Duo, nice price, but what's the catch?

 

downside its like playing lottery, sometimes you get a good one, sometimes you get a really unstable one that runs really slow. best to avoid, if you really want to get it, make sure its a late version

 

lol, thanks. exactly what I was thinking.

 

Almost everyone has bought an ES Extreme CPU here. Not heard of a single one complaining. Well, you do get it at half the price of the non-ES OEM one.

I've owned 3 ES X9000s, never had a problem with a single CPU. Just make sure that the CPU-stepping is the latest as the OEM version, so that the monitoring tools can at least read the DTS.

And there is really no point of an Extreme CPU, if you can't overclock it.

 

Well if you are planning on upgrading the cpu in your toshiba, make sure you are looking at the right processors. The X9000 is the one you should be looking at. The X9100 will not work, as it is a monteveina chip with the 1066Mhz FSB.
Your only cpu upgrades are the T9500 or the X9000 for your laptop.

K-TRON

 

It dosent say the name of the cpu in windows or the bios

 

@Ktron

nah done upgrading the toshiba, was thinking of getting an OCZ whitebook and x9100 off ebay.

 

Can be really risky. I bought a T9300 from ebay, which turned out to be ES (seller didn't disclose) and put it in my SZ. Got the dreaded BSOD and fatal error messeages, despite having the latest BIOS which was supposed to support it. Luckily the seller was honest and refunded my money. Maybe the fact that I also pointed out that according to the Intel site, it is illegal to sell ES CPUs helped persuade him. Stick with a genuine resale version.

 

Partially true. A B1 or B2 spec ES will not be read. If you get a QS sample, which is the final spec ES and basically the same model as the retail version, it will be recognized in the BIOS and Windows, as well as temperature monitoring software.

Most people who spread fear about engineering samples have never even had experience with using them.

 

yea either that or have used them and been worse off for it ...you make it sound like anyone who has actually bought one has had a good experience

 

Quoted for Truth

Intel releases codes for the final stepping only. The codes for any of the earlier steppings are not released, so the DTS cannot be read by the BIOS or any software. That is why it is best to go for the QS chip.

As the DTS cannot be read on the earlier stepping CPUs, the Tj(max) is not detected. Since Tj(max) is responsible for throttling and shutdown when a CPU overheats, the throttling, etc will not occur, and the CPU will end up frying, unless the BIOS is coded to shutdown at a specific ACPI critical temperature (like the Dell D630 ). But you can also monitor the ACPI temps, and avoid overheating. Not a problem. I had a B1 X9000 and it was fine, and cheaper than the C0-stepping.

 

Pardon me, but please note my use of the word most. Your first post on the subject sounded very speculative, so I didn't realize you were speaking with firsthand knowledge. Please share your negative experiences.

 

I have one, and there's no stability issues. I agree, most people who talk about the ES versions, have never had one.

It is the internet, so you're only going to hear about negative. Very few people will rant about a positive experience like they would a negative.

Besides that, the guy I bought from sells about 10 a day alone, and after a couple months still has 99.8% positive feedback. That's gotta tell you something.

 

It would be interesting to know where he is getting enough ES from to sell 10 a day. Read the following from Intel's website:

"Engineering sample processors (also known as ES processors) are not intended to be offered for sale or resale to the general public. ES processors are considered "Intel Confidential" processors and are only to be used within Intel or by AUTHORIZED personnel outside of Intel for purposes of testing, evaluating, and/or pre-configuring systems. Every ES processor that is "Loaned" outside of Intel is done so under strict contractual agreements or Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDA) to assure the protection of Intel's intellectual property and the unit during the time it is "Loaned" out.

ES processors are available to those who qualify for, and obtain, an NDA. An Intel® Authorized Distributor can assist with the application to obtain an NDA. There are no other means to obtain sample processors from Intel Customer Support. Engineering sample processors are designed and built like normal processors, but offer additional features for testing purposes. These processors are not packaged or labeled for sale to consumers, and may incur damage when tested by system builders.

To determine if a processor is an engineering sample, refer to the processor markings. The Q-spec (a four-digit or five-digit code) will begin with the letter 'Q' instead of the standard letter 'S' which is used for production processors. Engineering Sample processors may also have the words ES located after the Q-spec or the words INTEL CONFIDENTIAL marked on them.

Engineering samples are not supported by Intel Customer Support and are not eligible for warranty service.

If you have received an engineering sample processor from a vendor, and you would like a production processor, contact your vendor for replacement information.


Engineering sample processors from Intel are property of Intel Corporation."

Perhaps he is getting them from somewhere he shouldn't. Besides, who really wants to own up to shelling out to get a dud.............

 

Its all crap. So many users have upgraded to ES extreme processors, do you think any one would be foolish enough to spend a grand on just a piece of OEM silicon ? There are tons of ES CPUs available on ebay..

 

How much could I fetch for my ES QX9300 then??

 

Most ES chips that end up being sold were "taken home" by someone at a major ODM or were provided as review samples to a mag/website/etc.

 

as long as you get the final stepping they are perfectly fine without any issues. i personally use and have owned tons of them... i have actually never had a bad es chip..

 

For a long time ES chips were the ones to have because they were usually extremely conservatively binned, they do have some quirks, especially if you get a preproduction unit, but I wouldn't hesitate to get one as long as its a stepping that was sold into retail as most you see for sale are, only someone pretty stupid and unscrupulous would try and sell pre-production units that won't even be recognized correctly.

 

The problem with ES chip may be subtle or hidden, so you don't realize that you have it. It's a bit like installing beta software. It may work but you may have hidden problem that you don't realize it is there. I would stick with final release even though I have to pay more.

 

What kind of subtle, hidden problems have you encountered?

 

Well, it is subtle or hidden so you don't even know that it is there. Things like wrong round off error could happen which you don't even know unless you do the calculation manually. My point is, it is better to use final chip after they iron out all the bugs. Why play the odd? Beta software and ES chip are for those who don't mind to take the risk.

 

That's why you test the chip. If it passes Orthos for 12+ hours, it's not going to spit out a random rounding errors. Or at least the odds are just as good with a retail chip that tests stable.

 

i dont know if this helps but my QS T9500 works well

My opinion is to check the seller's feedback/history before you buy. If they seem like they get positive feedback i say go for it!

 

Thx for all the feedback guys

 

About a year ago I owned a XPS 720 H2C with a QX6700 Factory Clocked to 3.46 MHz I brought a QX6850 from Ebay. The seller who incidentally played a part in a well known computer mag sold it to me at the time unbeknown to me it was an ES sample as I found out via the Intel CPU id thingy. Now what was disappointing to me was the fact that the original retail QX6700 over clocked to 3.73 GHz with no issues I was extremely disappointed to find that the ES Qx6850 would not be stable at anything over 3333 MHz even though it should have clocked to 4 GHz
BSOD after BSOD and device manager would often report lower core speeds for core 2 & 3.
The CPU would run 100% fine at the stock 3 GHz
And Yes the MB Nvidia 680i fully supported the QX6850 and Yes the Bios was up to date Etc.
My brother now has the XPS 720 still at the stock speed of 3 GHz as I now own the XPS 730 H2C with a QX9650
Long live ES CPU’s