Extreme cold & notebooks

So what would happen if you brought a laptop that had a nonoperating limit of 5°F into an environment that's at -40°F for an extended period? Let's assume that moisture and the rate of temperature change are not issues.

 

I use ice in the summer to keep my laptop cool , but I doubt it went under 0 celcius. But if you need a laptop that can handle cold, your gonna need a panasonic toughbook.

 

What's that in °C?

(°F are useless - or K is acceptable too )

 

To be clear, I don't need to use it in the cold. I only need to be able to transport it in the cold. I'm not looking for alternative computers or ways to keep it less cold. I think the original post pretty much nails exactly what I'm asking for.

 

It's the same.

 

-40°C?

What makes me wonder is - materials can become brittle in extreme cold...

Also if there is any liquid in components - I don't think there is - it could freeze, expand and "explode" the casing...

 

Lol fahrenheit is not the same. When I use SIW to scan my pc temperatures, it says that 194 fahrenheit is about the same as 94 celcius (my cpu lol). Although when the temperatures drop, its not exactly a difference of 100 but varies.

 

only -40 matches up, but if you freeze your laptop dont bump it hard or plastic can crack much easier, and let it warm back up and if there is much condensation let that dry before using.

 

Brittle is a concern, but at least I can protect for that if I must. Liquid...I dunno, liquid crystal display. Does that count?

You can lead a horse to water...

 

Yes it does it might be the display in fact that's "cold sensitive".

 

well I carry my computer around it temps like that. when I did that I HAD to let my computer warm up before it would start. I tried to start it but the lights just turn on and nothing. after warming for 5 minutes it would start.

 

That's awesome! Wait, let me confirm. You carry your computer around in -40°F/-40°C?

Yeah, I'll definitely be letting it heat up.

If you're curious, it's because I'm planning a winter trip where the utility of a really small computer could be very useful, like for posting to a blog when I get into town, for offloading pictures, and allowing me to access a library of books.

 

A client a long time ago was leaving his computer in his truck and wondering why it didn't start up sometimes - the 'coin' battery on the MB was frozen and the BIOS would reset to factory defaults (when he had changed his config a few times since the computer was new).

When I finally asked him what the exact sequence of events that happened prior to the computer not booting up, he said well, I left the shop at around 6 AM with the computer, went to the job site and when I went to have lunch around 2 or 3 PM, the computer wouldn't start.

Almost 9 hours with no heat? In -35°C? No wonder it wouldn't start, I tell him... he says "You sure that's the problem?" with a straight face. lol...

That computer (Dell) didn't last the year.

 

My CF-30 Toughbook works fine at -17C, but it does have a hard drive heater. The display doesn't seem to have any issues with the cold. The liquid in LCD displays is not water, it is a layer of liquid crystal paste with a freezing point much lower than water. I do have a friend who turned his Dell on at -12C two weeks ago, its not back from the shop yet! When the display on your car radio stops working, don't turn your computer on.
CAP

 

Thanks guys, this is great news.

 

Extreme changes in temperature are really hard on electrical components. Just ask people who had a defective nVidia 8xxx series GPU.

I'd be most worried about the hard drive personally. There's a lot of really tight tolerances in those things, and metal moves a lot more than you think it would at -40.

 

That's why Toughbooks have hard drive heaters.
CAP

 

Which is really feckin sweet, if you ask me.

 

I really don't see how the hard drive would have issues when it's off. Post #4.

 

That's the point, you can use it when its that cold, you just have to wait a little bit for the hard drive to warm up.
CAP

 

For example, http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=483

Temperature (English)
Operating 32° F to 140° F
Non-operating -40° F to 158° F
Temperature (Metric)
Operating -0° C to 60° C
Non-operating -40° C to 70° C

I'm assuming they are recommending you not use it below zero degrees Celsius?

 

Yeah, theoretically nothing bad will happen to the machine if it's kept off, but warming up to room temperature can take longer than you think, and starting up a hard drive at -40, even just once, can cause some serious consequences.

 

Are SSDs affected (or is it effected) by cold?

 

Doubt it..

 

they are. they're ALOT more tolerant than HDDs are though.

 

Perhaps you could try wrapping your laptop in some kind of material that would protect it from the cold? I bet samsonite must have something more thermal resistent...don't see any other reason why they would charge so much for their bags otherwise.

 

The most feasible way to keep the computer warm is to place it next to my body and under my insulated clothing. That way isn't very feasible because I'll already have a nalgene water bladder or two and a gps inside my jacket. This is why I have utterly no interest in keeping my computer warm enough to use. If I relocate to an environment that's warmer, then I'll pull out the computer. This would probably when I go into town to hit the post office to pick up a resupply box. I intend to hit a diner before leaving town again, and that's when the computer will come out.

A toughbook won't happen for many reasons. Even any toughbook given to me for free would still stay out home during this trip.

 

If the computer is being carried in a padded bag then it will take some time for it to cool down to ambient temperature (you would need to put a thermometer in the bag to see how quickly the temperature drops). Putting it in a neoprene sleeve in a padded bag would provide some extra insulation. And if you warm up some ice-packs and put them in the bag then they will add to the heat that has to dissipate.

As already noted, the important thing is to give the computer a chance to warm up to above freezing before you turn it on.

John

 

I would say that the most important thing is to prevent condensation forming on the electrical contacts while it was warming up. (Yeah, photog here! )

I would place the computer in a sealed plastic bag (a large/huge ziplock would be ideal) with a couple of desiccant packets to absorb any moisture trapped with the air in the notebook.

( Put the desiccant packets on a tray in the oven at about 180 F for 10 minutes or so to dry them out and 'recharge' them before use).

When you get to warmer surroundings, leave the computer inside the ziplock bag until it reaches room temperature - then, the computer should work normally once removed from the vapour barrier the ziplock bag provides.

Cheers!

 

Capacitors on the motherboard contain a gooey substance, they could possibly freeze and rupture.

 

i would try to carry it around in an insulated case for sure... but you should have a laptop like Dell Latitude E6400 which is desgined for cold and all.. panasonice toughbooks are also one choice... other laptops might not take temps like these laptops can...

 

Just want to emphasize that it's not the temps so much (if left to warm up properly), it's the condensation that can cause issues while it's warming up!

 

Sorry to be so late to respond, didn't see this thread until today.

I used to live in North Dakota, and regularly used my laptop to support astrophotography efforts in the winter. -40F would be a little extreme, such weather was not particularly common, but -20F to -30F was pretty common at night, and certainly would not prevent observation, as it was usually such temperatures which accompanied clear, still nights. These temperatures caused issues with the LCD screens, which would fade significantly. There really were no other ill effects -- hard drives worked fine, CPUs unaffected. Apart from the screens, all cabling would need a great deal of attention as these stiffen a great deal, making it both difficult to route, but very easy to trip over and pull stuff off desks, etc.

If the laptop were turned off, I would expect no significant problems at all. Transport in an insulated case would reduce my concern to none.

If allowed to cool to these temperatures, I would let it sit for 8-12 hours after returning it to room temperature.

 

I forgot to mention that internal battery life would be next to nothing. An external marine cell, mains supply, or a generator are essential.

 

Well, if it was already running, then the HDDs and CPU would keep themselves warm. I wouldn't try to start one at those temperatures, though.

 

Yes, the new led backlite would work better than CCF

CCF would probably not output full brightness in extreme cold conditions
And as they warm up they would be get a bit brighter

My main laptop has a 1000nit screen and a hard drive heater + a SSD so I am able to use in colder conditions if I need to

Toughbooks are made for extreme use

Alex