Forget Intel Broadwell, Skylake On the Way

Facts on Intel Skylake:

• 2015 Release Date
• 14nm CPU
• 9th Generation Intel HD Graphics
• Dual Channel DDR 4 Memory
• PCIe 4.0
• AVX 3.2 Instructions
• SATA Express

More Performance

Report: Intel Skylake to Have PCIe 4.0, DDR4, SATA Express

Intel 14-nanometer Skylake Platform To Support DDR4, PCIe 4.0, SATA Express

 

I find it hard to believe that we'll be close to saturating PCI-e 3.0 in 2015 with consumer GPUs.

 

It's not just the gpu's that will consume the bandwidth shortly - it is the next gen SSD's too...

 

I think that it will happen.

The big driver here will be 4K resolutions, and the bandwidth demands of gaming at 4K. 4K resolution is in its infancy now. But 2 years from now, I can see 4K resolutions being accessible to the high-end mainstream, which will in turn drive demand for GPU power to fill those pixels.

 

I believe the upcoming SATA Express will use PCI-E lanes. And SATA 3 SSDs as of now are locked at around 500 MB/s. Give a cheap, higher-bandwidth connection, and there will be consumer SSDs that will start to reach 1 GB/s.

 

they use pcie lanes and we already have those SSDs that reach 1gb/s

 

Good points.

Though while the bandwidth might be necessary for things like 4K with AA and 120Hz and things like that, I don't know if GPUs are going to have the raw power to do that in the next couple of years, if AMD and Nvidia take it as slow as they have been waiting for new processes for new architectures the last 5 or so years.

What are the chances we see SATA Express on motherboards before 2015?

 

None of the consumer grade types at around 70 cents per GB have a transfer speed of 1 GB/s.

 

I dont know, I never saw the price of the new sata express SSDs. and Im not talking about the older sandwiched pcie SSDs

 

Some of the recent SATA 3 consumer grade SSDs cost only a little over $160 for 256 GB.

 

See:
Intel

 

at that size I dont care

at what those cheaper provides outside the m500 I also dont care

 

Consumer? Maybe not. But server cache drivers have been doing 6GB/s+ for some time, so chances are 1GB/s consumer ones are not far away.

 

Intel to start making Skylake microprocessors next year

 

Intel's Next Generation Skylake Thunderbolt 'Alpine Ridge' Leaks - Double the Badnwidth over Last Gen

 

Lol. What a load of baloney. Intel is "on-track" to begin manufacturing Skylake engineering samples on December 31st, 2015....

In mid-2015 they will come out with a revised schedule and pushes release to "4th quarter 2016," which invariably will get pushed back once again.

Intel has a big incentive to postpone releases as long as possible. Long gone are the days when they were chugging along as fast as they could.

 

Intel Skylake 2015 Platform Details Revealed - Compatible With 100 Series Chipset And Supports DDR4, GT4e Graphics Chip On Desktop

New details on Intel Skylake revealed

 

A MacBook Pro with the Quad Core Skylake CPU, DDR4, and GT4e GPU, please.

That thing would be a powerhouse, and I bet have like 18 hours battery life.

Do you guys think that Intel being quiet on the CPU/IPC improvements again with Skylake means we should expect ANOTHER tock with unimpressive CPU improvements?

 

I don't even see it so much as that a GPU will saturate PCI-e 3.0 x16 by then, but probably more that intel doesn't want to put more than 16 pci-e lanes on their mainstream platforms, and so by doubling the bandwidth means that they can do that and still allow dual GPU's and a PCI-e SSD or two.

 

1H 2015? Cool. I guess I might as well wait since 20nm Maxwell seems to be taking its sweet time. Skylake 20nm Maxwell should be a pretty powerful mix. Supporting all the latest goodies like DDR4, SATA Express, PCIe 4.0 and improved IGPU will make it a sweet setup. I see Haswell and Broadwell just extensions from SB/IB. This seems like a significant improvement overall.

 

It's going to be a major platform improvement, that's for sure. My question is, is the CPU going to be anything more than another extension of Sandy Bridge?

 

Agreed... I personally think though intel will try to delay it as much as possible due to them getting closer to moore's law!

 

Moore's Law is basically a doubling of transistors every 18-24 months. That usually only happens by way of a die shrink anyhow, which follows Intel's normal Tick-Tock pattern. Ivy Bridge was 22nm Q2 2012. Although Broadwell kind of drops below the Moore's law curve because of the delay, where if they release Skylake in Q2-Q3 2015 it will keep them on track for another die shrink in Q1 2016.

 

Intel guarantees its next-gen Broadwell chips will be in PCs this holiday season

 

So Brodwell will only have like a 6 month shelf life? That seems a bit odd.

 

I forgot, have we gotten a timeframe for Skylake yet? If not, I fully don't expect it until Back to School season at the earliest, making it closer to 10-12 months.

 

And apparently intel is pushing for more prolonged shelf life of their products with haswell being available till more than half of next year

If I remember some of those ppt correctly

Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk

 

So there's nobody rooting for Broadwell? I've been steadily learning more and more about computers these past few weeks, and am ready to build my first rig, but basically what I've learned is:

If I purchase a current Haswell CPU, I'll miss out on Broadwell which will come by Christmas and fix 4th gen bugs, save power and sell for cheaper.

BUT, if I wait for Broadwell, I'll miss out on Skylake which will come less than a year later, and revamp a lot of functionality and improve raw processing power.

BUT THEN AGAIN, IF I WAIT FOR SKYLAKE, there will be bugs, barely any compatible parts, it'll probably cost a lot more and I'd have to wait more than a year from now to actually get a computer.

Anybody got any advice?

 

I say just go for a haswell and then upgrade when skylake comes out or even whatever is after that

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

There is always something new just around the corner so the best strategy is usually to buy the computer when you need it rather than waiting for the latest and greatest. The exceptions to this rule are parts that are clearly and significantly better than the previous version. This doesn't happen very often nowadays -- the last CPU example I can think of is the introduction of the Core 2 architecture. For GPUs, I guess Maxwell would probably qualify (but only for laptops). Broadwell looks like the usual 10-15% improvement so it's not worth waiting for in and of itself. I think Skylake is from the same team that designed Core 2 and Sandy Bridge so it's not impossible that it might be such an exception, but it's too far in the future for us to know much about it.

 

First rig?

This is the way out of the jungle:

Buy the most computer you can afford at the time you can buy it and forget about what you 'might' miss over the course of ownership.

If/when you need a more powerful (or otherwise more focused) system, you'll know and you'll already have a benchmark to compare any new potential system against (of course that is the system you've been using all this time...).


The key is to have a budget (make it realistic; hotdogs for two years to get a 5% better system isn't... ), have the cash in hand and then go ahead and build the best system you can with those funds at that specific time and your specific local location (I don't recommend ordering your only computer online, but that is just me...).

Even with unlimited funds; this will be a learning experience and the only 'right' way is what is 'right' for you. But you have to take a first step and sometimes that first step is wobbly and sometimes it's not.


When I state 'buy the most computer you can afford', this is what I'm specifying:

O/S: Windows 8.1 x64 Pro Update 1 - nothing makes your new/current hardware shine better than an O/S that is optimized for the new parts.

CPU: i7 Quad Core, Eight Threads

GPU: depends on your workloads - for me, this is the last and least important piece of my workstations and for many of them a modern igpu is sufficient.

RAM: 8GB is barely enough in Q3 2014. 16GB RAM is the minimum for a better balanced system. I don't mean barely enough to run the O/S and your programs - I mean that the cost of the additional RAM over the course of ownership (~18 months to ~5 yrs) is negligible vs. the benefits received over that same time period.

Storage Subsystem: HDD or SSD for your new setup? An SSD is required to experience the full potential of the new platforms - but don't make the mistake of buying an inferior SSD: you want one with fully populated controller channels (this rules out mSATA...) you want one that has optimally interleaved nand chips per controller channel (this rules out anything smaller than current 500GB capacity SSD's) and you want one that is optimized for the workload intended of the system (don't choose an EVO, for example, for intense audio/image/video editing sessions - or for constantly moving large (1GB+) files/folders back and forth to the SSD).

You also want to keep in mind that to enjoy the 'SSD advantage', nearly all of todays SSD's need OP'ing to keep their performance from dropping (some, to below HDD levels...). I recommend 30% of the nominal capacity left as 'unallocated' to keep performance as high as possible, although Anandtech recommends 25% still.



Overall; if you're going to replace this system in ~18 months or less: buy almost 'anything' to get you by until then and spend at the lower end of your means/budget. On the other hand, if you plan to keep this system for the next few years... maximize/balance the system as much as you can within your budget with the criteria set above. Doing anything else is simply wishing for a reality that doesn't exist.


Good luck.

 

Intel aims to eliminate all PC cables in 2016

 

I'm skeptical. And also the fact that laptops/tablets pretty much already are cordless.

 

I love my WiGig dock (I might not if I had paid the $300 MSRP instead of $30 on eBay), but I don't know about the wireless charging - that just seems like a great way to quickly trash the batteries on everything I own by repetitively charging them partially and intermittently rather than fully.

 

Increased latency, increased power consumption, decreased device bandwidth? No thanks.

 

Intel can't even get 802.11AC right, how do they expect to get all this other wireless crap right?

 

802.11AC is hard, that's why.

Practice will make perfect and although I don't expect this new tech to hit the ground running, it is a step forward nonetheless.

 

Since when is that a valid excuse? It's hard.. *facepalms*

~Aeny

 

It's hard, sure. But for some reason across the PC industry it's OK to release product that's more or less beta state and have users be paying beta customers. If it's that broken don't release it until it isn't.

 

It's not hard as in 'we need a few hundred hours to get this perfect' - it's hard in the sense that the knowledge comes only by building these 'beta state' products and allowing hundreds/thousands to use them in real world settings

But when they work (to use apple's term); they are 'magical'.


I am glad we get to play with beta products - we can always return stuff if they don't perform at least to what we had before...

When I upgraded to the latest AC class products (very recently; mind ya), the performance benefits were not subtle for my uses and therefore I kept the equipment.

But if you think you can simply get a chip, an amp and a couple of antenna and have a modern WiFi router with the performance that 'modern' entails; you're sadly mistaken.

 

Intel 14nm Skylake Desktop 'Sky Bay" Platform Detailed - TDPs For DT, H-Series, U-Series, Y-Series Unveiled, Quad Core With GT4e GPU Has 95W TDP

 

I hope that doesn't mean we might see some manufacturers choose to not include DDR4 support in laptops as well.

 

Yeah, that is exactly what that means. DDR3 and DDR4 will not be interchangeable (physically) even if they are compatible (electrically).

Always a bridge model between major jumps. The worst kind of platforms to buy...

 

It's not 'magical', it's called physics, engineering, and validation testing. If you find being a paying 'beta' tester is OK, then you have too much time and money to spend. And as you must well know, computer equipment has very short return windows, and by the time you figure out the product doesn't perform as expected, that window to return has ended. And many times it's 'passable' just not consistent or show quality.

With Intel AC there's been inconsistent performance, frequent ping spikes, and random abnormalities. Drivers have helped somewhat, but it's still a long way off from the claimed 866.7 Mbps. I can get about 200-220Mbps with 802.11N 5GHz and about 250-280Mbps with 802.11AC sitting 20 feet direct line of sight to my Asus router. Tested with at least three different cards in three different laptops in addition to a D-link AC router. I was excited about "gigabit wireless speeds" but the reality is, it's only about 20% the rated speed. If that's acceptable then I guess you'd find a 3GHz CPU running at 600MHz acceptable as well?

 

HTWingNut, can't agree with anything you accuse me of, sorry.

The very fact that it shines for me and many others while giving dismal performance for you is why it's an art and not just science.

This stuff is hard, very hard... but you're entitled to think otherwise.

 

Are you talking about reported connection speed or actual transfer speed? If it's the former, I'd agree that's a significant issue. If it's the latter, virtually no wifi signal can transfer at more than a third of its rated speed, and they're usually between 1/8 and 1/4.

As an example, my Intel 6300 wireless adapter has between a 300-450 Mbps signal from my Asus RT-N56U router, but actual transfer speed is closer to 100 Mbps.

 

Congratulations! Great that it works for you!



but there are many that are still having issues.

AC wireless adapters, Intel in particular are known for random performance glitches and drops. It's not just about transfer speed, but the ping spikes and drops may not be as noticeable with file transfers, but for ping sensitive things like gaming, it's a nightmare.

You keep saying it's hard. I don't care if it's hard. There's lots of hard things in life and technology, but they're the experts, it's their job to overcome the "hard" parts. Hard is only a matter of overcoming and hurdling the unknowns and issues through applying science, engineering and testing.

----

Back on topic.

It says Y and U series which likely won't support faster RAM speeds anyhow. But DDR4 will be a welcome addition. TDP's are still up there, though. Also am curious on IGP performance. It doesn't look to be that much faster than current gen, and with addition of 3k/4k screens making inroads will be interesting to see how it manages it.

 

HTWingNut,

And many more will still have issues too. That is why it is a work in progress.

It is not a simple matter of adjusting the things the 'experts' already know to achieve the desired result for millions of users in billions/trillions of possible situations - it is about learning/thinking about a new way to tackle a problem and then finally having some insight to solve it.


Not much different than SSD's and I in late 2009 when they all seemed like crap to me - until I took some of the ideas I was reading about them and applied them to the consumer SSD's I could get my hands on: OP'ing made a believer out of me.

Unfortunately, seeing the issue as 'the experts' problem will not help you get satisfaction in the near term. But the issues will be solved for all, (eventually), I have no doubt.



(Maybe not with current hardware/drivers... but what they glean from all these issues will be implemented for yours and my future benefit).

 

To get things a little more on track again:

How are things looking for Skylake? Will there be an equivalent of he MQ range of Haswell? No "ULV" and not soldered? Up to this point I remember at one point all of skylake would be soldered, and then it turned out not to be true?
I want a chip like this (with DDR4) so I'm sure Intel scrapped them, as always when you want something you can't have it

~Aeny

 

95W TDP... Sounds like the P570 successor can be a bit thinner.

IIRC starting from Boardwell all mobile CPUs are BGA. You'll have the buy the P570 successor thing if you want PGA.