Forget Intel Broadwell, Skylake On the Way

Chicken-and-egg problem. Intel is making the first move....that's all.

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But, the same went for WiDi; most Intel-based notebooks for the past few years should have WiDi capabilities, but I haven't really seen it bundled into TVs or projectors yet, which is a shame.

 

If i could have widi built into my av receiver, my life wold be complete. Intel would have to push marketing on widi first though before that would happen.

 

Is there a point in waiting for these new processors to come out in notebooks? Will the performance jump be much of a difference?

 

That depends on your needs. You'd probably already know if you needed more power, and if you're not one of those people, you probably won't notice a difference.

 

The point is better thermals and longer battery life. Architectural change is major also depending on software that is used for improvements and add features sets.

Instead of think about 1st gen, 2nd , 3, 4, 5 and so on, as the die shrinks are not major steps.

Anyone should be looking at more like this Nehalem (2008) --> Sandy Bridge (2011) --> Haswell (2013) --> Skylake (2015)

The jump from Sandy to Haswell in the mobile platform had huge benefits for thermals and battery, as so the jump from Nehalem to Sandy Bridge.

 

Hey, is there an official statement from Intel that the all new mobile CPU will be soldered onto the mobo from now on? Because I have.

 

You have what?

 

An official statement from Intel. Although it is posted on my country's Facebook page, I don't think they could make a statement like that before taking permission from Intel's itself. This is why I'd like to know if Intel (main HQ maybe?) made a statement about it.


https://www.facebook.com/intelturkiye/posts/869610003102964?comment_id=869727903091174&reply_comment_id=869966729733958&total_comments=4&comment_tracking={"tn":"R9"}

My humble translation to English:

 

Well we already knew about this. No more socketed mobile CPUs. BGA only from here on out.

 

Ah okay. I didn't know it is official. Well that sucks.

 

Really? I know it's theoretically beneficial in some cases but "much more performance"?

 

I read it again and I made a mistake when translating it. Sorry. The correct one is "much better results". It sounds similar but this one's meaning can be relative.

 

Dat hype train, from the ISS happening this week (April 30th, 2015) in Abu Dhabi:

"2015 will see a level of innovation experienced only once or twice each decade, thanks to the launches of Windows 10 and Intel's Skylake chip, a top Intel executive told delegates at the Intel Solutions Summit (ISS).....

Speaking on the first day of this year's ISS in Abu Dhabi, Maruits Tichelman, vice president for channel sales and marketing at Intel, said: "We are coming out with Skylake. There is only once or maybe twice in a decade when you see Microsoft and Intel at the same time bringing fantastic innovation to the computing industry and that is happening this year."

http://www.channelweb.co.uk/crn-uk/...-2015-a-once-in-decade-high-for-pc-innovation

 

Cannonlake:



Is this map old?

 

Wrong in a lot of cases.

Broadwell-U was not available until Q1 2015. There was not a single Broadwell-U laptop in 2014, but this chart claims the ramp up began in Q3 2014 with availability in Q4 2014.

And it claims we should be in the 3rd quarter of availability of 47W Broadwell mobile parts? LMAO.

And Broadwell will be skipped in the desktop sockets? Nope, it's coming, as Intel has stated.

Either old or wrong.

 

I'd guess that's an older roadmap, judging by the incorrect release dates. Those look like the intended release dates but Broadwell didn't hit the scenes until Q1 this year (as @ikjadoon) noted and we still have no sign of Broadwell quads. I doubt we'll see the latter - ever.

 

Asus: Intel ‘Skylake’ and Microsoft Windows 10 to debut in Q3

 

Assuming they had spent a significant amount of time and money into developing Broadwell mobile Quads, did they all just blow it away?

 

I doubt it was much tbh... They probably said it's fine.. We'll take the charge on for the greater good of Skylake... Which will make tons of money for us

 

while skylake is more important and welcome, i hope clevos new models also come xps 13 like infinity display

 

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/...-retina-display-release-date-rumours-3604834/

I think we'll do.

"At time of writing (15 May), the 2.5GHz 15in MacBook Pro with Retina display has a dispatch estimate of 2-3 weeks, suggesting that a refresh is imminent, likely at WWDC."

That's at June, which matches with earlier rumors. Yes, that's late, and it means direct Skylake replacement is Summer 2016. I do think there is a slight chance that they'll cancel Broadwell H chips and go for Skylake H, but Summer is too early. Also with their strategy in Desktops having both Broadwell and Skylake aimed at different segments, they seem adamant to sell Broadwell.

Three possibilities IMO:
1. Broadwell H in Summer 2015, Skylake H in Summer 2016
2. Broadwell H only existing in lower CPU clock GT3e variants alongside Skylake H in high CPU performance GT2.
3. Broadwell H cancelled for Skylake H

 

Who knows... let's wait and see... More interested in the Skylake laptop/desktop processors here...

 

[QUOTE=" I do think there is a slight chance that they'll cancel Broadwell H chips and go for Skylake H, but Summer is too early.

3. Broadwell H cancelled for Skylake H[/QUOTE]

Skylake H those are Quads for the Notebooks correct? If so I really hope we see those before the Summer of 2016 infact I hope we see them before the end of 2015 but I don't thinks so.

 

Why not, just a mobile version, no reason they cannot be released at the same time, has been long enough already, cant see what the problem would be.

 

Why would you want an LCD that is power hungry, and has poor refresh for gaming?

 

While I'm a fan of the infinity display aesthetically, I don't like how it jams the webcam down below the screen.

I think he/she was talking more about smaller bezels, not the panel itself. Or are you saying that those two are connected?

 

Hey, I agee would like them to release the skylake-H mobile version ASAP in 2015, but for some reason I believe we won't see them this year.

 

The 2015 rMBP was just announced today. No change in processor. Still Haswell H.

Most of the rumors point to Broadwell H being cancelled and Skylake being released the Q3. My guess is that Skylake S will be released first, followed shortly by Skylake H, and then Skylake U and Y. It'll be a more traditional release schedule as opposed to Broadwell's flipped schedule. We'll almost certainly see a full rollout of Skylake by the end of this year.

 

I expect the U and Y processors first, then the S and the H at the end... Skylake will definetly replace Broadwell... Hopefully they've got the thermal requirements under more control with Skylake but doubt this will happen when looking at Broadwell..

 

It is only about 40 days away from the start of Q3, therefore I hope Broadwell quad mobile is cancelled, even if it isn't so yet judging on the time it pretty much is already. I doubt many if any manufacturers want a Broadwell quad at this stage, cost to much to implement in more expensive notebooks, how many i7 quads are there in low end budget notebooks. It has been too long, I think Skylake mobile quad is imminent not far from now, but not as far as the end of the year.

 

Intel Skylake Graphics Performance Shows Up – Iris Graphics 540, HD Graphcis 520, HD Graphics 515 Featured on Skylake-Y and Skylake-U CPUs

 

I didn't manage to read whole 39 pages but can anyone simplify and TLDR it for me — what performance increase are we talking about in a lets say Witcher 3 on a gaming laptop and how soon it will be available?

I mean, if it's around 10% in around a year, it's probably not worth waiting since thats your regular performance boost, right? Or is it going to be a complete game changer on a laptop market?

Cheers

 

See:
http://wccftech.com/intel-processor...ee-arrives-q3-2016-skylake-muy-chips-q4-2015/

If reports so far are true; this will not be your average upgrade (even though those are worth upgrading to, too).

 

We don't know how much the performance will change. I think it will be better than the improvement of Haswell over Ivy Bridge simply because if you look at this table, the odd "Tocks" have been better than the even ones, at least where laptops are concerned (I think they have different teams working on them). That is:

Core (excellent)
Nehalem (lousy)
Sandy Bridge (good)
Haswell (mediocre)
Skylake (we'll see)

 

Sorry to bump this old thread, but I remember having that debate about the usefulness of LPDDR3. Well, it looks moot, as DDR4 is coming to Skylake-U!

The specifications for the Skylake NUC (which uses laptop parts in a SFF case) show DDR4-1866MHz: http://www.pcper.com/news/Processors/Report-Intel-NUC-6th-Gen-Skylake-Specifications-Leaked

Unexpected, but welcome.

 

DDR4 ... 1866MHz ?!

 

Old post? Last post before yours was only 10 days ago.

Ty for the heads up though: NUC's are the new desktops for light/office type work. Have setup and installed many for clients and none are dissatisfied (over the last couple of years).

 

And CL13 probly

1.2V doe

 

Bahaha, well, it was pushed back onto the 2nd page and is slowly being superseded by the other Skylake thread.

Yup: besides media creation machines, NUCs were all over my university campus.

lol. Yeah, it is kind of weird to see DDR4-1866MHz. It's as if we had DDR3-1066---which, wow, I just Google'd that and it exists....

 

DDR4-1600 is a thing.

 

On the large Xeon SKUs if you put 2 DIMMs of DDR4 registered into one channel it would under clock to 1866, and to 1600 with 3 in one channel. One of the reasons many workstation/server builders don't populate all the DIMM sockets these days.

I don't think DDR4 1600 DIMM products exist, but some DIMMs end up running that way.

 

Some news on the H version we all want to know about, which is otherwise non-existent. If they are to real deal, study them and make your conclusion.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/8492...nce-leadership/?set_mobile_full_site_cookie=1

 

Cumulative baby, cumulative!

That is what most don't understand. Each gen's improvements taken one by one is (maybe) not impressive (on the surface) especially when compared to what was happening half a decade ago. But all together, the cumulative improvements always seem to make a current (today: Broadwell) based platform seem like it truly is a genuine representative of current (circa late 2015) state of the art.

Old, loud, power hungry and hot running O/C'd systems from yesteryear need not apply.

Cool, quiet and efficient are the new gen's ongoing trademarks.

No doubt that those old systems can still hang with (or even exceed) some of today's platforms - if performance is the only priority - but performance dominance is not a single race (or aspect) of modern computing any longer - and it hasn't been for a long time. Productivity is performance over time and that is where my money is today.

Productivity does not depend on simple performance - at the cost of everything else. Other factors and aspects are becoming more and more important as once we are exposed to their benefits, their impact is only then fully realized (especially when we can use older equipment and only then are we really able to compare how far we've progressed, sometimes in as little as 2 or 3 years).

The days when I could build myself a 1000HP '67 Mustang and be happy if it ran for two days in a row are long past. As is the days of really driving a Viper (convertible) for 9+ hours straight and not being able to hear normal for almost a week afterwards (wind/buffeting noise - not engine/road noise - although those were great while I could hear them too).

Today, stability, reliability, dependability and availability are much more treasured (in addition to a quiet work environment, less heat output and longer (unplugged) system life) of all my tools and toys.

Yeah, those 300+KM/h speeds reached were heady and exhilarating a few decades ago. But it is no less impressive to hit (just) a few more KM/h faster today - but be ready to go to dinner and enjoy the theatre too - without needing a shower or a week's rest first.

Or; to be able to spend a day in a room with up to 30+ workstations working flat out and still want to come to work the next day (and do this day in and day out)...

Will Skylake be as impressive as all the rumors? That is what I hope, but... Who knows?

What I do know is it will be a success if it furthers the step towards a platform that will be performance oriented without ignoring all the other important aspects I've become dependent upon to keep productive day after day.

To put a finer point on things; the 'other' aspects include but are not limited to (in no real particular order):

• Performance/productivity per Watt and IPC.
• Higher boost clock speeds (even for fractions of a second make a dramatic usability/snappiness difference).
• Support for lower power and (eventually) higher performing essential components (i.e. DDR4L).
• Less Heat generated at idle and full load.
• Low/no Noise at full and at idle load.
• Real world battery life improvements (even if still mostly dependent on battery size/capacity at full load).
• BIOS improvements (i.e. mouse support / touch support / quick init / connected sleep / UEFI+).
• iGPU improvements
• L4 Cache improvements that also enhance the CPU performance.
• Dreaming: (maxed out - 64GB+) RAM included on (CPU) die.
• WiFi improvements (can't wait for 2:2 or higher AC class or higher support to be built onto the cpu die).
• Optimized support for latest hardware components (native/bootable PCIe SSD's high on the list right now).
• Optimized support in the latest O/S's (Win10x64Pro and forward, as of today).
• Optimized for low(er) latency in spite of lower idle power (aka 'snappiness'... Broadwell already there).
• Optimized with more and more dedicated fixed function hardware engines (i.e. Quick Sync and VQE and HEVC).
  • Fixed function engines are faster, need less power and transistors and are what really makes big 'jumps' in performance possible from one gen to another.

While the above is not a comprehensive list, it does show that taken all together, real world gen to gen improvements are about more than just raw performance - refined performance; that is where the real world improvements are to be had.

Edit: added links for VQE and HEVC.

 

tilleroftheearth, you always seem to forget about price. All your arguments work only for machines priced over $1000, while most people buy notebooks cheaper than that. And when you step down from your sky castles to Average Joe's world (not Hipster Joe's with his fancy ultrabooks and Apples), little used high end system almost always beats new budget ones available for the same price, nowadays often including not only performance and quality, but also battery life.

 

No, price and budget are always part of the consideration. But the one time cost of a new platform is more than offset by the ongoing and continuous benefits received over the lifecycle of the same platform.

One thing I should have added to my list above is time saved because of the newest platforms. Always worth much more than mere dollar savings could justify.

Even for machines south of $1K all my points still apply; a new(er) platform is almost always more desirable than hanging on to an obsolete one (and by obsolete, I mean anything that has been superseded, even a few months later).

Your third (run on...) sentence is a little confusing? High end systems for the same money as budget systems? What does 'little used' mean? A high end (I read that as; performance) system used for light work (and maximum battery life) is used wrong, I agree. But when mobile computing power is required, latest gen is always the system I pick to come with me.

Hipster Joe can go jump in a pond, along with his iJunk. Average Joe is who I'm trying to educate here. A $200 - $500 price difference can make the difference between needing to buy a new platform in 18 months or less to being more than satisfied with the system for the next half decade or more. That is a real and tangible cost savings. And is not gained by buying today's 'good enough' or worse; making an arbitrary budget and then sticking to it religiously.

 

tilleroftheearth, by little used I meant systems less than 2 years old in like-new condition and/or return items going for half retail price. These tend to have much better batteries than consumer models you can afford for similar or slightly higher price, resulting in better battery life disregarding being previous-gen, and there sometimes are options to expand it further by using modular and/or extra high capacity batteries. Keyboards, screens, build quality - it all affects user experience. While you're mostly right advising newer platforms, it does not work at all in poorer countries where $1000 is actually a lot of money, prices are steep and choice pretty limited (India, ex-USSR, etc.). Budget devices are almost always total crap. It's like choosing new Volkswagen Polo over 10-year-old BMW 5 or Mercedes E-Classe for a personal car. Logical decision for many - because people are used to buying new in a shop - but plain stupid if you understand anything in cars.

 

Somewhat disappointed the H GPU improvements are only 16% over H Broadwell. I was hoping for another huge leap that would continue to close the gap with dedicated GPUs for many purposes.

Anyways, I'll take the CPU performance increase, but all the platform improvements are what is going to make it awesome. Is Skylake going to support HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2? That would be the one thing that would really suck at this point.

 

The one interesting thing for the H-series in those slides is "up to 80% lower silicon power (CPU+PCH+WiFi+LAN)". I don't know what exactly that means, but given that the desktop TDP is going down, it stands to reason that the mobile quad-core TDP also decreases. The base TDP for every generation of mobile quad-cores Intel has ever made (going all the way back to Clarksfield) has been around 45W with the "extreme" parts at 55W and a low-power (but also low-performance) version of some chips at 35W. Haswell actually went in the wrong direction and slightly increased this base to 47W. If Skylake lowers this to somewhere in the neighborhood of 30W for standard chips (i.e. not gimped low-power versions), that would actually be a pretty big deal. Otherwise, I don't see much of a point -- "Up to 11% faster CPU" doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

 

Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I can agree with most of what you say.

But just like with computers, those 10 year old BMW or Mercedes models will have to be judged on a case by case basis vs. a brand new budget model. That is what we try to help people with here ( mobile computers, not cars ).

The price point you pick is not relevant to a degree either. As long as there are options available; the newer platform for slightly more money may be well worth buying - even if it isn't a current gen device. By options, I mean not only availability of equipment - but also the ability to wait/save or simply (arbitrarily) increase the budget to allow for the better long term buy.

Just like it may be worth it to spend more for a 10 year old Mercedes than a brand new VW Polo, it is also possible that the reverse may be true too (if, like in NA, a car dealer offers free service for several years on the new budget car in question).

'Great', 'better' or 'good' is independent of old or new. It is only 'great/better/good' when compared to the options available at the time the decision 'had' to be made. (The timing of decisions is another topic on its own).

 

Argh, was reading other posts I'd like to no a little about the timing of the decision though if someone doesnt mind. Especially pertaining to someone like me on a budget of over 1k but less than $1500. I was gonna buy the Asus zenbook ux501 today. Looking for an enthusiast level quad core. But now am torn between waiting or not. New skylake features are great but I don't know if I would use them ex. new thunderbolt. Battery life isn't that important for me and I need a discrete graphics card so igpu increase seems mute in my case. Wish more info was available on "h" variants. One of my biggest questions is pricing. Do you think I will be able to get a comparable system gtx 960m, 16gb ddr4 memory, 256gb+ ssd with skylake "h" this year for $1500 or less?

I think if my only benefit from waiting is a slight (10% or so) performance increase id just buy now. Other features are great but seem unneeded when current systems seem enough for my needs. Would like to not have to upgrade for at least a couple years maybe around time cannonlake is finally released. Any of you experts have any insight for me and others looking for systems now on a budget but can put off buying for at least a couple months? As someone once said timing is everything.