Forget Intel Ivy Bridge, Haswell on the way

My bad as long as i've been here it's hard to forget it's a notebook forum first. I'm in the market to upgrade my desktop.

And someone actually hit 86c running Prime95 with stock cooler and no OC'ing.

 

I guess ille wait until 2015 if not never

 

Regarding drivers support and the latest version of OpenGL for the IGPUs, I didn't realize that Intel's Beta driver for Windows 8 adds support for 4.0+. Hopefully that's coming to Sandy Bridge as well. It's really good to hear for those who will be buying Ivy Bridge laptops in the next year.

 

This is VERY important,

How much do Intel chips cost ?
A lot.
What does Intel do ?
They cheap out further on manufacturing.

It's not JUST the temps, it's more than that.
The fan needs to spin at a higher rpm, that makes more noise and that UPSETS me.
Also, the higher temps aren't something I'm interested in.

Maybe Intel will fix the issue (doubt it) with the release of the Ivy i5's.

 

The issue is with the voltages they run at, the crappy coolers and TIM that ships with them, and the not aggressive enough fan profiles used. Also we have no idea on the case airflow or ambient temps of these extremely high core temperatures. But honestly, it doesn't really matter. These are all things that you can easily change if you feel like. It isn't like there is anything inherently wrong with Ivy Bridge.

 

edit: sorry had a link for desktop version

 

Does anybody know if haswell gen will have an 8-core mobile part?
Thanks!

 

No, it will not have 8 cores.

 

No, 8-core won't even be any haswell desktop cpu, I doubt even 6-core, maybe haswell-E.

Has any slide showing the mobile haswell cpu's been released ?
I'm curious if there will be any 37w quads with GT3.

Also, what I hope for the new haswell's is that we can finally get 2 hdd slots for the average 15.6" (and the optical), since the vrm will be onchip (so the motherboards can get smaller)

 

When is Haswell even slated t appear? I know it will most likely be pushed back but I'm just looking for a frame work....

More importantly going along with Intel's whole "tick/tock" strategy will Haswell be a major redesign or a minor improvement over IB? I only ask because I will be starting a new full time job in the next week and I need to get a new laptop to treat myself....I had been waiting for the Ivy Bridge Envy 173D from HP but now I'm debating....

 

it appears to have the same launch type than ivy, quad first dual cores latter. sincerely good product availability should be what we had this year

its going to be a redesign, how major is unknown.

 

Intel schedules releases every year. Ivy Bridge was just released in May, so in Intel fashion they are probably planning to launch Haswell in May 2013. Don't be surprised if that date gets pushed a few months though. Intel has had a hard time meeting their release goals lately.

Haswell will be a major redesign. Intel has been implying that Haswell will be designed specifically with "Ultrabooks" in mind. This probably means a change in power management. They have also said that the voltage regulators will be moved on the chip. 22nm voltage regulators are likely much more efficient than the ones on the motherboard.

All hopes are that the Haswell will be as much of a success as Sandy Bridge was, but nobody outside of Intel will know until next year.

My hope is that Intel puts greater focus on security in Haswell. They tend to think security is telling the customer features are safe without disclosing how they are safe. It continues to bite them in the a** when independent groups find massive security holes. Now they have a "safe" feature that can remotely turn on a computer that is powered off to allow the administrator to install updates. What if the administrator's computer is hacked? Game over for the entire company. Your computer isn't even safe turned off.

Anyway, if you need a new computer now, waiting a year for Haswell is a long time. I've been there, something better is always on the horizon. Windows 8, DDR4, 802.11ac, Haswell, IGZO displays, memrister storage, USB 4.0, SATA IV, quantum computers, brain implants, etc... There is no such thing as a perfect time to buy a new computer.

 

Yeah, Haswell is going to be another big upgrade, but a high clock speed quad core Ivy Bridge is going to last you easily three years before you start noticing maybe the performance isn't good enough.

 

Thanks for all the input/information guys. I definitely appreciate it. I think I'll buy an Envy and see how I like the design/performance and hopefully keep that for the next 5 years before I look at laptops again.

But if I don't like the current Envy then I may just wait till next Fall to see if HP redesigns it and launches it with Haswell inside....

 

I believe this is the best time to upgrade. mid 2014 is when the big upgrades happen again.

 

No. Intel has not had a hard time meeting release dates. They have pushed back release dates in order to further stretch out production runs. Intel sat on the release of Nehalem, Sandy Bridge, and Ivy bridge even though they could have released them much, much earlier.

 

I had a poor choice of wording. We both agree that the actual release dates did not meet the originally planned release dates.

I'm not trying to knock Intel for their delayed release dates, I'm just pointing out observations. Intel has such a firm grip on the CPU performance crown, that they can afford to delay launches. It's probably even profitable.

My main goal was to let TheAtreidesHawk know that Haswell is not just a few months away, but several months away. If he needed a new computer now, it's probably not worth waiting for Haswell.

 

2013 Haswell Mobile CPU Lineup - Power Sippers to Guzzlers by VR-Zone.com

Link

 

Launch schedule of Intel Haswell processors

 

IMO if Intel can release decent clockspeed quad core with GT3 graphics at 35W TDP, it would be awesome. I guess I may have to wait for broadwell for that. I am not too impressed by the TDP(37/47/57W). We are going in the wrong direction.

But ULV SOC with GT3 graphics at 15W tdp will be awesome.That should be my next laptop for sure. Hopefully we will get a 2.5 lb laptop with super fast SSD and Great Screen with 10 hours battery life.

 

My speculation would say an extra 2 TDP for the graphics power, and that while the TDP is 2 TDP higher, with all the new power saving technologies, it's actually going to have way better battery life than Ivy Bridge.

Disappointing that we're not going to have Quad Core Ultrabooks with Haswell yet. I'm thinking my next laptop might be a Haswell MacBook Air to complement my home theater PC, but maybe there will be a decent enough jump in CPU frequency (plus the added improvements of the new architecture) to offset not going Quad Core.

 

There has to be more than a 200% jump in cpu frequency to offset 'not going Quad Core'.

Not going to happen.

(Buying anything less than QC going forward is money down the drain...).

 

Thats not true.

 

What is not true?

 

Most dual cores are faster then quad cores like the 45nm i7's. Also most 22nm i5's i7's are comparable to quads on most things as they are similar speed dual core wise. Because dual cores are so fast these days like top end i7 dual core beats mid range desktop quad cores cpu's are more then fast enough dual core wise. Even the new consoles will be less powerul most likely.

 

Ah...

So if we compare between model families, alternate universe's and different timelines, dual cores are faster?

For a given platform/level, dual cores only offer the 'budget' version of the best Intel has - quad core is mainstream now for over 4/5 generations.

Don't compare non-comparables (or worse: compare via/only benchmarks) - use the system (any dual core setup) and feel it's deficiencies for yourself.

Given Win7x64 and identical RAM (8GB or more) - even office productivity workloads favor quads (at least if you're looking for the most transparent O/S experience for the best price/performance ratio right now...).

 

Depends on what you're doing. I doubt most people will be able to take advantage or notice the difference between a dual and a quad.

GT3 graphics has me pretty excited though. 1.5+ times graphics perf increase over IVB is awesome.

 

and it appears that I was wrong, I was hoping that the 47w tdp was the maximum, i.e. xm processors.

 

LOL. You have been trolling in plenty of threads I see. Just letting you know, CPU is not the end all be all of people's computer decisions. Few people need that type of performance and for many Quad core just suck away battery life for no good reason. Not sure how you think it's mainstream for notebooks when there are a relatively small amount of notebook Quads... all of which in the i7 family. Keep living in you fantasy world where performance trumps all else....

 

Actually quad cores became mainstream with Sandy Bridge since a quad sucks the same amount of power as a dual core at idle state. And a dual core not necessarily saves power over a quad now since the quad will do a given task faster than a dual core and then go back to idle state faster while the dual core is still at work...could be even more energy efficient that way if u think about it.

 

The extra TDP is for moving the chipset on-die. So despite an increase in TDP (which doesn't necessarily mean power consumption, btw) means they'll still be able to reduce total system power consumption despite bumping up the chip's TDP.

I also highly doubt we'll see any sizable cache levels on the lower TDP chips simply because it wouldn't fit within that thermal threshold. GT3 and 10mb+ cache under 45W is out of the question as far as I'm concerned. It's just not going to happen. Given the current cache sizes on Ivy chips at the same 22nm Tri-gate node, there's just no way Intel will be able to create such large chips with so many transistors at such a low TDP.

 

The rumor so far is that Intel will use eDRAM with GT3, not a traditional cache. eDRAM doesn't put out much heat so I think it'll probably be doable sub 45w. Intel put the HD4000 into their ULV parts, so imo it's more of a question of how much GT3 is going to be throttled on the lower wattage parts rather than if it's going to be there at all.

 

That inflates the cost significantly, though.

I don't think we'll be seeing the eDRAM/high cache on mobile parts and certainly not the ULV parts. If anything, this makes more sense on the desktop than it does elsewhere.

I think it's still up in the air as to what we'll see with Haswell. There's been very little official info leaked as of yet and what has been said has been mostly rumors. Intel has been really quiet as far as the architecture goes.

 

depends on the the program, if it supports more cores, sure the quads could finish the task earlier, if it depends on 1-2 cores, the dual cores turbo boost is pretty much higher. Thus will end the task with less power consumption. And even if the program uses more than 4 threads, its not a clear cut scenario.

However intel is pushing quads for mainstream use, they just need to lower the TDP.

I do suspect that intel ill continue with this trend to put variable tdp cpus, meaning that the OEM can make a notebook with a lower end cooling system and get away with. The good part is that a good OEM can make things happen with a good cooling solution thus using the higher tdp threshold available, giving you more power.

According to what was leaked we havent saw increased tdp ratings in ultrabooks, rather they lowered 2w of it. However the standard voltage ones are going to face a 2w increase

Currently we have info of 15w, 37w, 47w and 57w. The only one that comes with the PCH (the southbridge of old times) in the cpu die (not integrated as far as leaks go) is the 15w.

I do surely hope that the performance difference should be lowered when you are comparing a quad to a ulv dual core, concerning the gpu of course.

 

All of the current sources so far (e.g. Anandtech) indicate that GT3 will NOT be for desktops and will be for mobile parts only.

You could very well be right about GT3 only being in the higher TDP parts, but I highly doubt heat from the cache would one of the reasons for Intel to do so.

 

MOAR POWER FOR US

 

Currently the leaks substantiate that there is going to be gt3 even for the ulv parts

and more bulkier designs, i dont mind that it should be anorexic thin, I do mind that it should be anorexic light

 

You do realise that the only difference between a dual core and quad core ivy bridge 22nm cpu doing the same task will be is the i7 quad will go to idle state quicker so the fan will be on for less but most likely the i7 quad will require more fan cooling to an i5 dual core so overall the power consumption should be similar to do the same task with maybe the i5 taking slightly less. Notebookcheck normally have around 18-20w difference between i5 dual core to i7 45w quad.

 

Isn't that pretty much what he wrote?

 

indeed, but Im more good looking

now looking at what he wrote, not actually, I gave the benefit of doubt regarding which is going to finish faster, given that turbo boost on the dual cores are extremely high. Which he doesnt take into consideration

 

(Purported) launch schedule posted at CPU world. Quad core mobile with GT3 due March '13, quad core desktop/mobile with GT2 are due for April, and ULT (similar to ULV?) models are due June-August with "up to GT3" graphics.

Looking forward to next April.

 

I'll believe it when I see it. HD 4000 was supposed to demolish Llano's IGP, yet it falls quite short. If Intel can truly create a "discrete class" integrated GPU I'll be very surprised. It's too bad that AMD has the upper hand on that and Intel on the CPU.

 

Intel can manage ~+80% over Ivy Bridge with GT3 imo but not more. Ivy Bridge was +40% over Sandy Bridge with a 33% increase in EU count and a tweaked architecture (slightly lower clock speed though). Haswell's GT3 is a 150% increase in EU count but I think it'll operate at a lower frequency, otherwise they'll have issues keeping a reasonable thermal envelope.
Claims of +400% are ridiculous even by Intel's standards when it comes to making stupid promises.

So what's Haswell likely to bring on laptops => 15% increase on the CPU side due to the better arch, improved battery life and a GPU that'll finally compete with some discrete parts in the consumer mid-range. Bottom line, ultrabooks will still suck balls when it comes to graphics due to the very low TDP budget and the rock bottom clock speed and are not even likely to get to 35W/45W Ivy Bridge performance graphics-wise.

Also March '13 as an initial statement, a severe economic crisis environment and Intel's recent track record all mean it's safer to expect the first chips in June '13 and a decent supply of notebooks to choose from by Sept/Oct '13, best scenario.

 

Intel & PC Vendors To Discuss Haswell Development - Legit Reviews

 

True, and Intel is still going to be behind in terms of drivers. I wonder how it'll turn out.

 

Testing posting tools

 

October 2013 would be perfect timing for my 3 years old laptop replacement.

 

Intel seeks to hasten the release of the successor to Ivy Bridge | Tech News Pedia

 

Intel to launch Haswell chip for Ultrabooks | Gadgetronica

 

Intel to chat up 'Haswell' chip at conference | Business Tech - CNET News