Forget Intel Ivy Bridge, Haswell on the way

I highly doubt that Haswell will have a 2x performance gain over the HD4000. But since you're assuming the article is true, how do you even arrive at the conclusion that the Haswell iGPU will not be competitive? A 200% gain will put Haswell at Kaveri iGPU performance.

 

PCs with Intel's Haswell chips coming in first half of next year | PCWorld

 

So sick. No delays this time huh? First announcement at CES 2013 and bing badda bom, release in the weeks after. JUST like Sandy Bridge.

Holy cow, thats like 3 months from now

 

Any reports on DMIPs for haswell 10TDP chip? The new samsung exynos chip has 14000 (7000 per core) and how much power does it use??? That is also at 32nm and these are 22nm so is Intel even competitive when it comes to performance per watt?

 

You highly doubt it huh?

Well.. It does. Have you not seen the performance demo on Youtube? It's QUITE CLEARLY twice as fast. Also I've also been told directly from an Intel employee who has one right beside him at this moment that "it's twice as fast"

But I didn't need to be told that to see it right infront of my face on Youtube.

Haswell vs Ivy Bridge Graphics - IDF 2012 - YouTube

You still highly doubt it now? Stop being such a doubter and try to believe, what you wrote just shows how closed minded you are.

 

Having question marks is good even the old greeks did believe this. Never believe something 100% till you see a trustworthy source

 

Do we know if Haswell use the same socket as Sandy and Ivy Bridge?
Today I've checked out the Latitude models from Dell and kind of bothering for $800 only a Sandy Bridge included, while the first Ivy Bridge APU upgrade cost additional $130.
I hope the next generation Latitudes won't offer Sandy and Ivy Bridge, because than Haswell APU will be super-expensive upgrade...

 

does any one know if its going to be backwards compatible with ivry sockets?

 

highly doubtful. there has been no word on that yet as far as i know.

 

look a bit further down. There is an Ivy i3 for +0$. An i5 is indeed likly to be more expensive than an i3

 

That is right, I did not noticed within the list for first time. Tricky..., they should recommend the Ivy i3 for $0 . So I wonder if Haswell use new socket or they rather keep the existing one for able to sell their current generation processors in new laptops. Actually that would be awesome for benchmarking; testing Sandy, Ivy Bridge, Haswell APU in the same laptop to measure exact performance and power consumption difference.

 

I very much doubt you will be able to use Haswell in Sandy/Ivy boards. Take a look at this AnandTech article. The Shark Bay platform used for Haswell brings new sleep states (S0ix) and a bunch of other power-related stuff. Besides, it's Intel -- when was the last time they kept the socket the same for more than one tick-tock cycle?

 

Yeah, so glad Intel doesn't use the same old outdated platforms year after year.

This is why we have what we have now: change the platform (when needed) along with the cpu.

 

I meant using Sandy and Ivy Bridge in Haswell Board!? So I would buy an Haswell laptop with Sandy Bridge, than do my benchmarks, than upgrade to Ivy -->Benchmarks--> upgrade to Haswell --> run benchmarks again.

 

No, that will not be possible:

Buying a Haswell laptop with an SNB cpu would be grounds for a lawsuit.

Putting a two+ year old (tech-wise) cpu (SNB) into a future MB would be like buying Wal-Mart tires for your Porsche.

I don't need to see these benchmarks you seem to need to run: I will know if Haswell is 'better' in the first 24/48 Hrs of using it in my normal workflow.

When its available.

 

Intel Haswell ULT Processors Power Saving Features and Lynx Point-LP Chipset Detailed

 

Here's a rather technical analysis of Haswell's CPU. It looks like they're not just upgrading the graphics and lowering the TDP, the CPU will also see substantial revision (most notably in the scheduling and execution units).

 

Ok do I have a question..

Now when you have a CPU (be it haswell or ivy) and a dedicated gpu (say a gtx 680) and switched with the gpu on..
Does it matter if you have haswell or ivy? Considering your running the dedicated gpu now?

Let's say in games like sc2 where CPU speeds are important..

Or is it simply just the number or cores and threads and the speeds the cpu is running?

Sorry for the noob question haha! Thanks though!

 

Yes, the CPU architecture still matters even if you have a discreet GPU. Take a look at this article. We don't have any reliable performance numbers for Haswell so I can't tell you how much it will differ from Ivy, but all of that stuff in the RealWorldTech article will make a difference. It's not just the number of cores and the clock speeds.

 

or better yet lets us mobile CPUs

Intel Ivy Bridge Guide for Gamers - Notebookcheck.net Reviews


As you can see almost all IB quad core CPUs run games just fine. Only a few games matter. IE. if your like me and play Rome/Medieval II total war (single threaded game) with 20k units with a 3720qm overclocked at 3.9GHz you get 5-20FPS. Also the bottom of the barrel quads run into a few FPS drop with Guild Wars II but the drop is minimal. Now if your playing with a duel core and a 680m than you got problems...first why would use have a duel core with a 680m is my question ^^

So to answer your question yes it can but only in certain situations. if you play with a current gen quad core like you should you should be fine

EDIT: also at this point hold tight and just buy the new nvidia GPUs and Intels new CPU. you got to wait like 3-6 months tops don't shoot yourself with buying current tech at this stage of the game

 

Well, I actually have no choice but to wait haha!

Christmas is coming and I cant really afford the lappy I want.

BUT! Tax season is right around the corner!! And Yup! I'm buying a new laptop with it.

So it's good to know at least haswell will be available around the same time as tax return season.

Thanks again for the answers though
I'll definitely wait till haswell hits the market.

 

So if David Kanter is right about Haswell we can summarize it:

- 10% better CPU performance than Sandy Bridge on existing software using same instruction set.

- Up to 30% better CPU performance than Sandy Bridge using the new AVX2 instruction set for Haswell

 

how is it only 10% better than SB? IB was ~15% better if i remember notebookchecks review

 

I forget ivb just because i'm using snb...

 

Ivy is 2-3% faster than Sandy Bridge. The goal of Ivy was to shrink the process down from 32nm to 22nm and get that working. The CPU improvements of Haswell is pretty amazing when you consider that Intel is also improving the IGP greatly

I might have to sell my new notebook in March-April since I need a new motherboard to use these CPUs. Darn

 

don't knwo where you get your info but this is showing 3% in one 10-15% in another and 20%+ in another. only single thread showed small gains.

Now if you talk about desktop thats different. Performance in desktop was small but considering the performance different per watt it has a 40%+ increase


http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Intel-Ivy-Bridge-Quad-Core-Processors.73624.0.html

please show your source for a 2-3% because that is entirely nonfactual

 

" please show your source for a 2-3% because that is entirely nonfactual "

LOL the around 3% is written about all over internet. I`m surprised you haven`t read about it yet. 15% better performance for Ivy over Sandy is dead wrong. Do you really think a die shrink with the exact same architecture magically gave same performance increase as an architecture change, Nehalem to Sandy? Really?

Nobody of the CPUs notebookcheck have tested can be compared.

3612QM and 2670QM have same highest turbo but its 35W vs 45W. Unfair

2960XM and 3820QM have also same highest turbo but its 45W vs 55W.

If you are refering to a 200-300MHz higher clocked Ivy CPU, then yeah, I agree. But not clock for clock

 

again as i said with desktops the big difference was within efficiency it has a 40% increase. i'll find other reviews later but your simple wrong. i'll even make a chart like i did with 7970m vs 680m since no one ever wanted to actually use facts

 

You guys are talking IPC vs performance. IPC increase was about 0-5% depending on the application and overperformance when comparing 2 processors from the same tier (e.g. i7-2630qm vs i7-3610qm) was 10-15%. So you're both right.

 

not sure what IPC is but i think he is referring to overall architecture improvements i think....maybe thats IPC? I am talking about overall total improvements as in performance per watt and stuff of that nature.

 

IPC = instructions per cycle (or clock, depending on who you ask). So it's pretty much the performance difference if both processors are at the same frequency. But new processors often come with higher/lower frequencies, so that also has to be factored in for total performance, which is what you were talking about.

edit: just noticed that the article said 10% over Sandy Bridge.. So that's like, what, 5% faster than Ivy Bridge? Meh.

 

over all though it'll be faster as in total performance. The IB CPU has 77w TDP for desktop compared to the older SB with 95W so expect to see the Haswell chips to be in the 90w range since with IB they went hardcore on low power envelope.

 

I think I covered pretty much everything in my post

 

Which Ivey Bridge do you have? Planning to upgrade your i7 680m and k4000m to haswell soon?

 

Seriously dude, stop asking me about the freaking K4000M and 680M. You don`t believe that I own them?
K4000M is for sale in the marketplace here at NBR, 680M is safely in my GT70. I have the 3610QM. I can`t upgrade to Haswell since it needs a new motherboard. Gonna have to wait for reviews of Haswell, but if its a big leap, I might just sell the notebook in April and buy whatever new GPU that is out then

 

Uh huh, where are your awesome benchmarks of your Ivey and 680m?

 

I don`t need to brag or post them. There are thousands of the 680M synthetic benchmarks already on this forum

 

should join NBR F@H team cloud ^^

 

You know what, I have never tried F@H before. I feel a little inhumane because of it due to the fact that I never contributed to humanity with my machines lol

Maybe I will. Thanks for the tip. I see you are there as well

 

chugging along on my R4 and G51j

 

The main question here is why does it matter that much to you?

 

VR-Zone (chinese) have revealed some the upcoming CPUs from the Haswell series from Intel.
TDP still is 45/55W but new about this architecture compared to Sandy Bridge is that we have some CPUs that are 47W/57W, an increase of 2W. And we have some 4000-series processors mixed with 3000-series.

Haswell will be released on both desktops and laptops in April 2013, and most likely be announced @ CES 2013 a little less than 1 month from now.

Source: VR-Zone




And as a reminder, here was Intel`s Ivy Bridge lineup:

 

whats up with the name change?

 

not too impressive tho no increase again in clock speeds. Im curious how much the clock to clock gain will be any predictions on that?

 

10-15% as usual

 

The clocks indeed look similar. It all comes down to the clock for clock difference I guess.

Anandtech predicted this in his Haswell article:

AnandTech - Intel's Haswell Architecture Analyzed: Building a New PC and a New Intel

 

really till 2 times that means it would be around 640m levels

edit: when will we really see some higher clocks. I´d love to see the 10GHz barier to be broken.

 

never...AMD gets close on liquid nitrogen but intel restricts it to 6GHz something max. Also on silicon that is never going to happen. The inefficiency is huge. to get an intel desktop chip to 6GHz is something like 150-300w TDP depending on the chip and how many cores....so to magically reach 10GHz you would be looking at a several hundred TDP chip.....never will happen.

 

Intel believed back at 2000 we´d be running at 10GHz in 2010 But same with steam engines 100 years ago you just can´t push things past a certain point you can´t always improve things. As you say with silicon it is never going to hapen. But now the world record was recently set on an zambezi at 8,5ish not? Putting the bar high won´t hurt anyone. I know it is really hard to run at 10GHz it is theoreticly almost not even possible with the current chip design. But i´d love if some manufactorer gave it a shot. It would be epic braking that 10GHz barrier and what is next then the 100GHz? I love that kind of visionary that brought us humans where we are now. I dont like the current trend in society those big projects are not being done anymore. Things like the first man on the moon was really awesome! But now we are not even aiming to get people on mars..

Who knows what the benefits would be of trying to push that boundry maybe totaly new and better chip designs. The current trend in notebooks is not getting more powerfull tho but only slimmer and lighter.

 

yea and intel didn't realize back than that the better way to run a CPU is by adding to the operations per clock...not adding freqs. countless documents show that the more frequency you add the more power is required(exponentially). Look at the terascale project. You could run tera scale at 5.5GHz or whatever and it needed 250ws for 1.8TFLOPS but at 3GHz it could run at 1 TFLOP. Technology doesn't work like that. BTW we could have a 10GHz chip but it would be pointless because you would have to hack so many operations per cycle that a 3GHz chip would be faster than that 10GHz one.