GPU software undervolting - new idea

Hello, I want to decrease my GPU (geforce 9500M GS) temperature through GPU undervolting. There is only one way to do that (GPU bios modification) but that voids warranty, so nothing for me.

But I have one idea about GPU undervolting through software, which doesnt void warranty.
My geforce 9500M gs has three frequency/performance modes : 2D (on 1,15V) , Throttle (on 1,15V too) and 3D (on 1,2V), default (according to NiBitor).

IDEA: I want to disable 3D mode (1,2V), and then I want to overclock (through windows, no GPU bios modification) Throttle mode to default 3D mode frequencies, so it would force GPU to play games in Throttle mode and with 3D mode frequencies (but with lower 1,15V voltage), so my GPU would run at the same performance but a bit (0,05V) undervolted. I think that would decrease temperature at about 5°C (5°C - it is like cheap cooling pad).

Now I want to know how to disable 3D mode, does any program know that? please help

 

No, only the bios flashing would do that. As far as i know. Plus your approach seems a bit odd to me...Not to say that a 0,05V cut off isn't much but it can make a little difference though.

Your voltages seem very high too, i mean mine uses only 0,89V in 2D mode for example. But i guess it's normal since your gpu is a 80 nm one and theorycally uses more power.

 

But 0,05V undervolt is better than nothing ...

My default voltages are high, but I cant do nothing with them (flashing new bios = no warranty, it is not acceptable for me)

Your GPU si undervolted? Or 0.89V is default in 2D?

So is there anybody who knows how to disable 3D mode for my GPU?

 

Your notebook automatically should undervolt and downclock through PowerMizer and run at lower settings. You can't really do more without voiding warranty.

 

Yeah i agree that 0,05V is better than nothing.

0,89V is the default 2D voltage. But I've put 0,89V also in the 3D mode (wich was originally 1,05V ) by flashing the bios. I lost 15°C (0,16V cut off). I really doubt that you can undervolt your gpu in another manner than a bios flashing...

 

Well, you can always flash your GPU to undervolt and then reflash it back to your old vBIOS if you have to send it in for repairs.

Odds are, it would be near impossible to do it software side. It should be possible though but you'd probably have to dig through alot of very technical things in obscure places to come up with anything promising....

 

But in case of GPU problem - then it is impossible to reflash old vBios.

So if there isnt any way to disable 3d mode, how can I cool down my GPU? I have 56C in idle an 78C in COD4. Nvidia forceware 186.03. Notebook is without dust, CPU undervolted, cooling pad is not ideal for me.
I haerd that some nvidia driver has lower temperature than other, do you know which?

 

Well, i don't know....just rise the back of your lap to improve the air flow when gaming and you'll loose 5-8°C ;-)

All drivers heat pretty much the same on my rig. Just avoid Dox ones cause they are known to add a few degrees.

 

Temperature differences due to drivers are very minimal. The best way to drop GPU temps is to undervolt it or massively underclock it.

 

Undervolting to my knowledge is best doing through BIOS flashing for now ... at least for Nvidia cards.
I did the same thing to my gpu like Kallogan (we have the same laptop model) and lost a considerable amount of temperature through undervolting the gpu's 3d mode down to 0.89V.

Coupled with the CPU undervolt via CrystalCPUID, my max temps were at just over 60 degrees while playing 'Prototype' for both the cpu and gpu ... a relatively demanding game I might add ... everyhting maxed out on 1280x800 and no AA ... that's with my Zalman Cooler of course.

I would say a BIOS flashing is the most effective way of doing anything to your hardware ... if you know what you're doing of course.
Or do it via stand-alone small programs that are specialized for such use.

 

For GPU undervolting? I dont know, please name some ...

For my notebook only 1-2°C difference

And what about you?, when you have undervolted GPU, are you afraid of voiding warranty?

Ok, if I undergo a risk related with GPU undervolting (bios modification via Nibitor), how can I find my safe voltages? Because If I flash too low voltage then my card is dead? isnt it?
My default voltage (geforce 9500M GS) : 2D - 1,15V, Thrtl - 1,15V and 3D - 1,2V.
Should I lower all these modes for 0,1V?
Then it would be 2D - 1,05V, Thrtl - 1,05V and 3D 1,1V.
Are these volteges absolutely safe?
It is shame that there is no GPU undervlting guide, flipfires one for CPU is great.

Please help

 

Well, you just basically guess and hope it works. If it doesn't, then just flash back to your old vBIOS and don't drop the voltages as much.

2D, Throttle, and 3D shouldn't necessarily be at the same voltages.

2D is for general desktop use that isn't intensive at all
Throttle is the speed at which your GPU downclocks to if it goes past the critical temperature
3D is in your case probably what the card runs at load.

Thus, the voltage for 2D should be the lowest and the 3D highest. Throttle would be in between.

 

I know that, but Is there chance that after flashing too low voltage my card die? Hm, die isnt a good word, but I mean that It wouldnt be possible to flash back old vBios (I dont know, for example that card with too low voltage freezes immediately after start.)

Should I start with 0,1V cut off in 2D, thrtl and 3D mode? Because almost every processor handles 0,1V cut off (my T3400 2,16Ghz dual core handles 0,2V cut off for max multiplier), but I dont know what about GPU.

 

Well.....there really shouldn't be any reason why low voltages will brick it permanently. Increasing the voltages might though....

I'd recommend to go in small steps and just drop all of the voltages by 0.05v at first.

 

The proper procedure is to test each individual level at a given voltage. Cutting 0.05v across the board would make it difficult to deduce which level is making the GPU falter.

 

True.....but then it takes so much more time......(I'm an impatient person here).....

 

78C while gaming isn't really hot. Why does it bother you so much?

 

hello, speaking of GPU software undervolting, can i ask a question about the GPU? i followed every step of tev's guide "which btw is awsome" and got 10K on furmark @ 2.4 ghz @1.163v and dox 185@stock. but sometimes when i run it again after idle or a game i will get low score like 9.7K ish only to find out on GPU-Z tht my GPU automatically underclocked from stock speed to 0? does any1 here experienced similar problem like mine? any insights on why this happening? thnx every!

 

Better to have asked it in the thread for my guide....but first you meant 3DMark06 right? Or does Furmark have a benchmarking tool....Anyways, a difference of 300 really isn't significant enough to mean anything. Variation can just account for that difference.

If your GPU was actually being underclocked significantly, you'd see like a 1000 point drop.

 

heheh thnx tev really appreciate it, now i dont have to worry =) hhehe

 

yes, I know that it isnt too hot, but lower temperatures = longer ntb life


And what do you think about warranty and GPU undervolting?

It is said that GPU undervolting (with GPU bios modification) voids warranty. But I want to know what exactly does it mean.
1. For example if I modify my GPU bios and I do something wrong (GPU si dead) then it is logical that MSI (my ntb vendor) wouldnt repair my card for free.
2. But if I modify my GPU bios and everything is ok (and card is 10°C cooler) and then (after year) my graphic card breaks down for another reason and It wouldnt be possible to flash back old GPU vBios. What about this situation, would MSI repair it for free?
3. And another situation: If I modify my GPU bios and everything is ok and then my display,touchpad, cpu ... or whatever breaks down, would they repair it for free if they find out that gpu bios was modified. Because if my CPU breaks down, then Im not able to flash back my old GPU vBIOS.

What do you think?

 

Well.....I think at 78C, you're just dwelling too much on undervolting. The odds are higher than some other part of your laptop breaks or it gets too old and you upgraded will occur long before your GPU fries.

Basically, it is really only worth it considering the potential risks and dangers if you're a heavy gamer with a hot GPU (like my G51) or your GPU is seriously overheating. You are neither....

Then again, if you really want it to have the lowest temperature possible, you have to do it with the full knowledge that if your GPU breaks down and you have no way of flashing the old vBIOS back onto it, there is a good chance that MSI will void your warranty.

 

One way to "undervolt" would be to force 2D mode - but the only way I know how to do this involves Powermizer on battery. Basically, you'd have to have Powermizer on and be running on battery - that forces the GPU into 2D mode, even if you're gaming. If you are gaming on battery, this can be a rather unfortunate situation. But you can overclock the 2D mode to 3D speeds with a tool such as RivaTuner, and get effective 3D-mode-esque gaming while on battery. I've done this before and it works fairly well on my notebook, at least when I don't try to overclock it beyond stock 3D clocks. Although I never checked before (due to not really caring about GPU voltage), I'd guess that my GPU was running at the 2D voltages at that time, since it was essentially in a superoverclocked 2D mode.

If you're interested, I can tell you how to do this 2D mode overclocking with RivaTuner. The clock speeds I confirmed with GPU-z, as well as very noticeable in-game speedups. However, I do not know of a way to make this trick effective on AC power (assuming it does indeed lower the voltage on battery). Perhaps there's some way to using PowerMizer, but if there is, I'm not aware of it.

To post #21:

1. Yep, you'd almost certainly be paying out of pocket in that situation.
2. Most likely not. It probably depends a bit on the situation - if it's obvious that something else caused the problem (power supply or something of that sort), maybe they'd cover it, but you should assume you'd be paying out of pocket for this one, too.
3. You'd probably be okay in this situation, but there's no guarantee. There wouldn't be any logical reason to say that changing a GPU setting would cause an HDD/touchpad/etc. to die, but I'm sure there's been cases where vendors have not honored a warranty because of something like this. But you would still be in a much better situation than if you'd opened up the laptop and removed some of the infamous "Warranty void if removed" stickers that some products have.

edit: On temps - My GPU gets up to about 82C or so in 80F ambient temperatures, and I'm not too concerned about it, even though it's an 8600M GT with the faulty heat depositor or whatever that nVIDIA flaw was. With lower ambient temperatures, it maxes out in the 70's. I wouldn't be too worried about 78, especially if it's a newer 9500 GS without the heat flaw. Even if it does have that, if it conks out under warranty, you'll get a replacement.

 

Your odds of damaging your laptop are inifinitely greater while screwing with the bios or other hardware mods to improve cooling than they are running your machine at 70*C. If your machine is gunna go out early it has nothing to do with your temperatures.

 

I really really don't mind about warranty stuff... This is my third laptop in seven years and i have tortured them all in every possible manners. And they still all work. As for my current one, i've flashed the gpu bios only two months after buying it (more than 15 gpu bios flashes till now) and then change the cpu six months later. It works like a charm and i bet it still will for upcoming years. I have a lot in common with computers They like me

As said 78°C is a lower temp than the average gpu. You shouldn't care about UVing your gpu if you're afraid to do so/ don't need it.

 

Okay. I'll screw with my BIOS some more and mod the hell out of my heatsinks even further so I can brick my computer faster.

 

Ok folks, thanks you very much for your replies.

For now I would probably keep my stock vBios. As you said 78C isnt too hot for that card, but I will continue in low-risk notebook tweaking

 

Yesterday I wrote to head of MSI service department about vBios modification and warranty. And today I obtained a reply:

vBios (and motherboard bios) modification doesnt void warranty !!!

So I would try it

I would follow TevashSzat Asus G51 Optimization Guide, where is guide how to flash vBios.

any advices? (about 9500M GS undervolting)

 

Well.....when editing the vBIOS, drop only one settings by one step and after the flash, run it through Furmark Extreme Burn in testing for like 15-30min to check for stability. Repeat until you get the lowest voltage possible.

 

I have flashed vBios with 1,05V for 2D and throttle and 1,1V for 3D. (default was 1,15V in 2D and throttle, and 1,2V for 3D, it means 0,1V cut off for each mode.

I had to use nvflash -4 -5 -6 command, to force flash, because with command nvflash it refuses to flash vBios (ID mitchmatch or something like that).


Now after flash everything runs good and stable, but also temperatures are the same (in idle and burn too).
So where is a problem?
When I dump my bios with GPU-z and load it to Nibitor 5.2, it says that voltages are lowered.

So?

I attached my old and new (undervolted, which I have flashed) bios and bios called G84 M (it is dumped undervolted bios, after flashing)

Is something wrong?

 

Do you have the "extra" option? That is what the GPU uses under stress in gaming.

 

I am using stock BIOS(stock voltage) but with overclock and dox. Check my signature.
I have only 70-72C max temperature during intensive gaming on a cooler day(20C-24C).
I have only 73-75C max temperature during intensive gaming on a hotter day(26-30C).
This is due to my CPU undervolt too(overall heat has been decreased, so, the GPU temperature may lowered too).
If I am not overclock, I think I would get below 70C for sure.
Actually, I am curious and interested on this BIOS flashing 9500M GS, however, I don't dare to try it.
I actually disabled PowerMizer and create my own personal PowerMizer using the nTune. I have ordered my GPU to run 250/190/500(original idling clock speed should be lower than this) for idling, 475/400/950(original 2D clock speed should be lower than this) for some normal or 2D application. 600/460/1385(obviously overclocked LOL) for 3D gaming.

Well, just now I tried it with a table fan blowing beside my laptop.
I got 53C as lowest temperature(idling) in a 20-24C room temperature.
I got a 68C as the lowest temperature(gaming) in a 20-24C room temperature.

I think 77C(gaming) on 9500M GS with no overclock is really not good.

 

@j_m

I'll check it out when I get home in a couple hours.

 

Hmm.....I see what you mean. The vBIOSes seem okay.

How bout this: first run your old vBIOS through Furmark in Extreme Burn in Mode at native resolution with 8x MSAA for 30 minutes and record the maximum temperature as well as the temp that it stabilizes at.

Afterwards, use your new vBIOS and do the same.

 

77C (gaming) for 9500Mgs is not ideal, but not bad too. For example Asus, M51S with 9500M gs has 88C on GPU during gaming. Every notebook has different cooling.

I tested Call of duty 4, because I remember temperatures during gameplay with old (default) vBios. And now with new undervolted vBios temperatures are the same.

I dont understand it, your GTX 260M undervolted with only 0,05V is 5-8C cooler (as you mentioned in another thread), Kallogan has 9600M undervolted with 0,16V and he gets 15C cool down. And my 9500M with 0,1V undervolt is as hot as it was with default voltage.

I there any chance that my card has locked voltages? or something like that?

Or it is not sensitive to undervolting?

Or can someone upload modified (underovlted) vBios that would work, my default vBios is in reply #30.

Or should I lower voltages more? Maybe 0,15V?

Help

 

Well from what I see, the vBIOS that you uploaded was perfectly fine in terms of being undervolted.

I dunno......it may be that your GPU simply isn't too responsive to being undervolted since it was already running so cool to begin with.

Its much easier to get noticeable temperature drops when you begin with a GPU that runs hot than one that runs cool.

You may want to try undervolting a bit more but I'm guessing that it probably won't do too much.

 

I haven't looked at the vBIOS files myself, but I will throw out there that I didn't notice much of a difference when I undervolted my CPU by from 1.2375V to 1.125V, about the same difference. The drop to 1.0125 caused a much more noticeable drop. I'm a bit surprised you noticed no drop at all rather than a small one, though. You may want to verify with some other programs (can't think of any off the top of my head, unfortunately) that your voltages are in fact lower.

What I'm more surprised by is that MSI is fine with editing the vBIOS. Not as surprised if it had been HP, Acer, or Dell, but still surprised.

 

Today I flashed vBios with 0,15V cut off for each mode and no difference. NTb is stable, 3D mark score is the same and temperatures too

So there is no temperature difference between default voltage and undervolted (0,15V) ....

Should I flash back old vBios? or is there any other advantage of undervolted GPU, for example longer battery life?

 

Yup! Lower the voltage = lower the temperature(even sometime is not significant) But they really can increase the battery life and the hardware life. Very obvious when you undervolt the CPU, you get a longer battery time.

 

I found this old comment:

I tried undervolting MSI 6600GT VTD 128MB AGP
Nibitor's voltage table has two values 1.3V for 2D and 1.4V for 3D.
First I measured the voltages with my multimeter.
1.3V was 1.33V and 1.4V was 1.44V.

I extended the table and got 1.1V and 1.2volt.
Using these values and measuring the output with the multimeter gave:
1.1V was 1.33 and 1.2V was 1.40V.

So the extended table actually does not work and there is no bios enabled method to decrease the 2D and 3D voltage.


Maybe it is the same problem with my 9500M Gs. Because I still dont believe that 0,15V cut off doesnt decrease temperature at all for my NTB.
In Nibitor I used Tools - Voltage table editor to define my new voltage, because in Exact mode drop box were only default voltages (it was not posible to mark Extend voltage table option) . My bios is in reply #30.

 

The extended table might indeed be faulty.

For the GTX 260M, I got Soviet Sunrise to edit our vBIOS to drop or 2D voltages from 0.75v to 0.70v (0.75v was the lowest you can naturally go) via Hex Editor and it seems to work great.

 

TL;DR.

j_m. Remember that you need to underclock as well as undervolt if you want better idle temps. Also, is your 9500M GS BIOS that you linked in post the original?

 

Editing Nibitor's voltage table does not change real voltages. It's said in Nibitor's help.

 

Then why are users, including myself, reporting a change in temperature?

 

I'll try then. I thought it was totally pointless to try this.

But again are you sure ??? I mean the difference between 0,75V and 0,70V is slight. Maybe you dreamt ;-)

 

I can assure you, it's no placebo effect. My idle level used to be 200/400/100 @ 0.85v, but after I underclocked and undervolted it to 160/320/80 @ 0.7v, I get better temps. I can change the voltage natively, through the voltage table, or by hexing, and I will still get the same benefitical results.

 

Ok let me continue in the role of the silly boy

Question : If you underclock and undervolt your 2D mode at the same time, how do you know that the temp drop isn't only due to undercloking ?????? hum ?

And if i follow your train of thought, i might customize as well my 3D mode and put 0,95V in the voltage table for example instead of 0,89V ???

 

Like I said, lowering the values of either will yield lower temps. Lowering both will just yield the most difference. If you want to crosscheck my claim one variable at a time, then I can also firmly state that underclocking alone or undervolting alone will benefit my idle temp.

 

Best way to believe is to check by myself i guess. Thanks mate. I had left this idea long ago and you convince me to finally try it.

 

Just make sure you alter your voltages one level at a time. Dropping all of them at once may render your GPU unbootable and you will end up having to force flash, which just wastes time.

Your results may vary. Every card is not built to the same level of quality. Also, some cards may have hardware limitations due to the MOSFET's being unable to regulate the specific voltage outside of the native voltage range. However, the effects of underclocking and undervolting are still existant, whether it be a very subtle change or a noticable change. Nevertheless, in the end it is up to the user to discover the highest, or in this case lowest, capabilities of their GPU.