HDD cloned to SSD: what should I delete?

Hi I have managed to clone my hdd to a 128gb ssd. I am now currently looking up on freeing space on my ssd for my games (only have two on there and its practically filled already) i have the other hdd still plugged in to the secondary drive. Is there anything I can remove from the ssd so that it can be used just for the os system and games only. I am unsure of what is actually needed for the os and what is actually just crappy programs I will never use like stickies etc

 

Cloned?

Clean install preferred (always) and make sure you temper your 'install' urges to keep as much free space as possible.

(All 128GB SSD's need all the help they can get - they're slow already and filling them up much past 50% is ensuring that you'll be getting slower than HDD speeds in no time - depending on your specific use, of course).

Good luck.

 

I do agree with the cloned part, a clean install is preffered, and I would follow the guides posted on how to do a clean install to a ssd, they were extremely helpful to me. however I don't see where your coming from stating that 128gbs are slow already, how does a size determine its speed. and ive had mine almost filled before(accidental game move) and it still was easily 10 times faster than a mechanical drive. one thing you do need to make sure you move to your other Hdd is the pagefile, this will free up some much needed space.

 

for his specific usage, free space(thus indirectly size matters) affects performance.

However, if the original installation is already optimized(i.e. no unneeded things), clone is BETTER than new install.

This is because a straight clone are 100% sequential write(that put the least stress to the SSD firmware) whereas a new installation may actually have more writes(think about those once off task that needs to be run and temp files created during the process).

Even if you count in the extra 'white space'(wasted write) during clone, they can be easily released via TRIM, assuming you are using Intel

 

I think we're all suggesting a "fresh install" not because of a sequential write, but rather the tweaks / changes one needs to do to move from a platter based HDD to an SSD.

@gogul1,

Are you running Windows? Which version/edition? If Win 7, upon install it will configure the OS to run based on the hardware you had at the time of install - (which would have been a platter based HDD). So, after a clone, it is still not configured optimally for an SSD. So, a fresh install obviously installs the OS and configures it for an SSD.

So, since you have the "HDD" based configuration for an SSD, you'll want to make a few adjustments. See the following guides to make the changes:

- SSD Tweaks and Optimizations in Windows 7 - Windows 7 Forums
- The SSD Optimization Guide - The SSD Review

Also, check your BIOS and HDD drivers.

If your laptop has a setting for AHCI/RAID vs. IDE or PATA, and is CURRENTLY set to IDE, you'll need to flip the BIOS setting, and then make changes to the Windows Registry to change it to AHCI.

Also, if you are not using Intel's RST disk drivers and you have an Intel based disk controller, upgrading the drivers to Intel's RST is highly recommended.

 

what configuration is different between HDD and SSD ? Enable TRIM ? That AFAIK if you run the WEI, it would be done automatically(and even if not, can be properly enabled via registry or command line).

To me an optimized setup is the same whether it is SSD or HDD.

 

Im now doing a fresh install and being guided by the revelator in all things driver wise. Should be interesting.

 

Off the top of my head:

• TRIM
• Page File size / configuration
• Indexing
• SuperFetch
• EDIT:: Disable defrag on the SSD ::EDIT
• EDIT:: AHCI mode if it was not enabled upon 1st install ::EDIT

EDIT:: Not to mention the possibility of accidentally mis-aligning the partition to the SSD which will lead to a loss of performance. ::EDIT

A common misconception, but running the Windows Experience Index will make *NO* changes to your system Also, running a Windows Repair will *NOT* adjust your system after making a switch from a platter based HDD to an SSD. For more info, you can pick up part of my thread here - http://forum.notebookreview.com/sol...-storage/642492-ssd-advice-2.html#post8375539.

Yes. Which is why I provided those links. But those are not "automatic" by any means, and for some users who are intimidated by such tools (or have a hard time understanding the info in the links I posted), it is just plain simpler to run a fresh install.

Getting back to your original post, "original installation is already optimized(i.e. no unneeded things)" that is incorrect - as you've just stated, things would need to be "properly enabled via registry or command line."

 

TRIM, important but easy to do manually.
Page File, non-issue whether to disable or not given how Windows use it and reinstall would not be any different
INdexing, again not a big deal and all existing file has been indexed already
Superfetch, again non-issue whether enable or not.

Reinstall including all those applications can easily take 1 day(think about all those windows updates one have to apply) whereas clone is at most one hour process. I failed to see how it is easier.

 

This is less of a problem today than it was 2 or 3 years ago. However, it can still be a problem for some SSD controllers. See AnandTech - Intel SSD 520 Review: Cherryville Brings Reliability to SandForce for addt'l info.

If possible, and you can get by W/ OUT moving the pagefile for extra space, I'd recommend keeping it on the SSD. See "Should the pagefile be placed on SSDs?" at Support and Q&A for Solid-State Drives - Engineering Windows 7 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

 

I don't see in a post where anyone said it would be easier. In fact, I agree, it will take longer - possibly quite a bit longer. Because of this, most advanced users may choose to use the info regarding configuration changes I posted above. However, again as stated earlier from another post, these steps may not apply to all people's skill level, and reinstalling may be the option they can understand best.

 

If it is not easier and have no noticeable advantage(other than TRIM), what is the point ?

as for choosing those options by most 'advanced users', I in general don't care who is advanced user or not, just what those options means and I would say it means basically nothing one way or another and as i result i can't justify spending the time for reinstallation.

one thing that may remotely makes a difference is periodic defrag(save some writes) which is not needed in the case of SSD but that even it does, it is not going to kill the SSD(I have measured the writes it causes and is again a mew to me).

I am not against reinstallation(I know people have a habit of reinstall every few months for various reasons) but just that the argument of doing it is not convincing.

 

SSD performance is impaired by cloning from HDD. I done it both ways a couple of times to prove to myself it's not a myth and the cloned installation always has a performance hit.

Cloning SSD-to-SSD and HDD-to-HDD is fine, just not HDD to SSD. (I haven't tried SSD-to-HDD cloning, but I've never had a valid reason to downgrade yet.)

 

The point is there's no need to check and double check your system. No need to find the instructions to enable/disable these areas of your system. And since an install catches everything, there's no chance you'll you miss a step (see below.) But it does come at the price of time, of which is a precious commodity. In regards to TRIM, enabling TRIM and correctly configuring a system makes it just that much nicer. For those not enabling TRIM with an SSD? Make sure you are leaving your system in a "logged out state" and hope the GC kicks in.

Great. Then do the things pointed out in previous posts. Why do you think this applies to you? If you don't like it, then don't reinstall and make the changes yourself. No one said the chimp had to do a reinstall. What tiller and violent are getting at is a reinstall is the most preferred way to get all of your options correct right from the start, rather than configuring, tweaking, and twiddling.

Good point. I had forgotten about the scheduled defrag. I'll re-edit the list. As I had missed that one too (a reinstall or re-reading the guides would've caught it though). Anyway, in general defragging SSD on a regular basis - BIG MISTAKE -

Then don't reinstall. We've covered there are plenty of guides on how to re-configure a system when cloning.

 

most preferred way, by whom ? As I said, whether to reinstall or not is a personal choice and anyone can advice others one way or another. Just state why and what it means rather than 'that is THE WAY, period'.

This again is a subject I would stay out unless I see this blanket 'most preferred' without qualification. As that can mean wasting others time when impling if you don't reinstall, you are going to suffer.

 

And at my work place, I have a few identical hardware/software setups where all others have been reinstalled from scratch in their process of changing to X25M and I never let our IT to touch my already optmized system(other than cloning) and everyone seems to notice my system is the most responsive.

So each of their own.

 

Unnecessary, true.

BIG MISTAKE ? I don't think so based on what I have seen. The extra write(assuming the windows default schedule is once a week) is not going to kill the SSD prematurely unless you expect to use it for 20+ years.

 

Based on what *you* have seen may not be as others encounter. There's no denying that NAND flash cells has a limited number of writes, and using a defrag tool will definitely cause writes on an SSD without any other additional benefit. But no one here's stopping you from doing so. Go ahead and leave / turn it on... As you stated above, to each his own.

 

My Samsung SSD 830 came with free software that checks that the system is properly configured.

It took about 30 seconds to run. Reinstalling software would not have been preferred.

 

I used to be skeptical of the "fresh install" is best for an SSD, until I did it. Then suddenly I lost 40 lbs, grew hair on top of my head, became better looking and my IQ jumped 100 pts.

First disclaimer - all of my SSD experience is limited to Win & variations with one laptop that was Vista Home/Win 7 Ultimate dual boot.

Second disclaimer - I've never done a clone, only backup-restore to maintain alignment.

Defrag - if the SSD is the only drive, shut off auto defrag, if a secondary drive, go into the select disk options and remove the SSD as a disk to defrag. Boy, that is hard, yea, better do a fresh install to avoid all that work.

Pagefile - what will a fresh install do here for you? eh? Never did anything for me. In all cases, if I wanted something different with the pagefile because of an SSD, I had do it manually, such as moving it to a secondary mechanical drive.

Alignment - make sure to format from a Win 7 system before, then if necessary, do a backup-restore (vs clone) to maintain alignment. No big deal.

Hibernation - shut it off manually. Internet search on how-to: 30 seconds, turn it off another 30 seconds tops.

Performance - I've now done two fresh installs to compare same system-same SSD against backup-restore benchmarks. Guess what, no real difference. Edited to add - anyone seeing otherwise probably dorked up their alignment.

I don't see any efficiency in doing a fresh install, to include reinstalling all apps and games to avoid maybe ten minutes of internet research and maybe four OS tweak steps.

 

Assuming you didn't miss anything else like AHCI, SuperFetch, or Indexing, then it sounds like you went through a guide similar to the instructions I posted. Glad it worked for you. As stated, there are multiple ways to do this with an SSD.

On a tangent... You restored to an SSD. Can you clarify what you restored from? Did you restore from an image taken from a platter HDD or from an SSD? Did you restore this same image twice?

 

I did not restore the same image twice - not sure I'm following you there.

I've done a backup-from-platter-restore-to-SSD three times. The process I used was to first format the SSD from Win 7 which takes care of alignment. I then backed up the platter (Acronis), then restored the image taken from the platter to the SSD. I then disconnected the platter with the boot partition (except on my desktop, more on that follows). I then booted onto the SSD and tweaked as needed.

I should have included in my previous post that one has to accomodate AHCI. This is a maybe the most important as to change to AHCI requires registry edit and that makes it, imho, the most dangerous tweak compared to all the others. I tend to forget that as I have not had an AHCI capable PC running in IDE mode in years - I always configure RAID mode even if not using it initially and both my recent laptops came in AHCI. I'm still surprised to this day how may folks are running PCs in IDE mode. What year is this anyway?

I don't care about tweaking superfetch or indexing. I've read all I could find on how/what they do and I cannot see any compelling reason to change them for an SSD nor do I see how they can be "bad" for an SSD.

The only "must do/have" for an SSD, imho, are ACHI, alignment, defrag. Any other tweaking is not a must. Again, that is just mho. I do not believe SSDs are that fragile. Maybe I'll change my tune after I've used them a number of years, but that is my current view.

More detail on each SSD upgrade:

The first time I did this process with a dual boot laptop with Vista Home Prem. and Win 7 Ultimate. SSD was a 2nd gen Intel x25m. This laptop (hp dv7 - has no IDE mode) had two hard drives so I used the 2nd as my backup/restore source. Even the dual boot MBR came out fine. It was so quick and painless, I did it while I was working/writing code at a client site. The initial boot into each OS did require a restart as the OS automatically loaded drivers. On the 2nd boot in I verfied alignment was fine, then configured defrag and moved my pagefile to the 2nd hard drive and disabled hibernation.

A number of weeks later I did a fresh install of the 2nd partition, Win 7, just to compare benchmarks. After benchmarking I restored the backup of the previous. Side note, this Win 7 partition was previously a Vista Business partion that I upgraded to Win 7. I did not expect the upgrade to work, I did it more as an experiment. However, all my loaded apps continued to work, so I kept that upgraded Win 7.

The second time I did this SSD upgrade was on my desktop (P5Q Deluxe/Q9550) with a C300 64GB SSD and the original boot partition was on a Raid0 pair of velociraptors. The Raid0 had two partitions so this time I was a brave and did not disconnect the velociraptors when I booted onto the SSD. (Best practice I recommend not leaving an old boot partition around when booting onto a new one). IIRC, it booted right onto the SSD and again I had to do restart after drivers loaded. Again, I then verified alignment, configured defrag and pagefile - hibernate was already off.

Third time was a toshiba portege r835-p56x (AHCI), restoring the original pre-installed Win 7 Home platter image to a Western Digital Blue 256GB SSD. Same steps as before. This time I was only doing the restore as an experiment and to benchmark the drive. I then did a fresh Win 7 Ultimate install and benchmarked to compare - no real difference from the benchmarks of the Win 7 Home restored image.

Another experiment, I recently got a Samsung 830 and did a clone on the toshiba laptop from the WD Blue SSD to the Samsung. I did have to repair the MBR to get the Samsung to boot up. I ran benchmarks then put the WD SSD back in as the 830 was headed to my desktop.

I restored my desktop's image from the C300 to the Samsung 830 (SSD-to-SSD). I had to do a repair on the MBR with the install DVD to get the 830 to boot. Samsung 830 benchmarks are almost identical between the toshiba laptop and the desktop - both are Sata II and the 830 seems to max out that bandwidth in most benchmark tests.

 

What I was wondering was since you said you did an image/restore twice, that perhaps the second one was already from an SSD (and had already been adjusted). That was not the case in your situation.

In regards to superfetch and the like, I believe the default for SSD is off (as it is off on my system, and I don't recall changing the value). In any case, what it does is keep a cache of recently used files, and loads them into memory. That way when your system asks for them, it just goes to the cached files in memory rather than out to disk. My guess is it is off as the SSD is pretty fast at serving up these files, so memory is not wasted to hold them.

In any case, glad your way worked out.

 

I hear ya on the superfetch, SSD speed probably removes most of its performance advantage, but since it doesn't write to the SSDs, I never bothered with disabling it as I see no real downside to leaving it on with an SSD, although I suppose it may free up some CPU cycles.

Something I thought I noticed once and have checked on a couple PC's with regards to Win 7, defrag and SSDs. When I go into degrag and check the "Configure Schedule" and the click the "Select Disks..." button, any connected SSD drive is not listed at all. I have serious doubts that Windows 7 needs any adjustment for SSDs period as it appears the only way it will defrag an SSD is if you do it manually.

 

I've never tested it with image restoration, but that is not the case with cloning. When you take a disk 0 (HDD) and replace it with disk 0 (SSD) - same drive letter assignments, etc., all configurations come over. So if a defrag was scheduled before, it remains scheduled in the clone.

 

Interesting.

Just for clarification - if defrag was scheduled, that schedule is still there on the restored image on an SSD and the SSD drive letter, "C", is on the list of disks within the "Current Status" list with all the other disks, but it is not on the "Selected Disks..." list, nor are any other SSD drives (Win 7).

On my desktop, for example, on the "Current Status" list it shows the last time "C" was defragged, was last summer (which is when I restored to the C300), which indicates defrag has never ran on the SSD even though it continued to run on all the platters on my desktop since.

On the desktop my current client has me using where I connect an SSD to run my development VM from, the defrag schedule shows "Never run" on the SSD and for the platter it shows the last defrag this last Wed.