Help with notebook reliability

I am looking for some reliable information on notebook reliability.
I know there is this research done in 2009 by square trade, but that's a bit outdated if you ask me: https://www.squaretrade.com/laptop-reliability-1109/

Basically someone who has a repair shop or experience with laptop reliability could be really really helpful right now.

Thank you!

 

Usually devices geared towards Business and professional use are a LOT more durable. Some such devices are:
the Lenovo ThinkPad T, X and P series
Dell Latitude and Precision series
HP EliteBook and ZBook series

In addition, certain consumer-grade devices have shown pretty good numbers on failure rates as of recently

Such examples are
Dell XPS line-up
Most of Apple's MacBooks tend to survive far longer than they normally should.

 

On the low end of the laptop spectrum, Dell Vostro, HP ProBook and Lenovo ThinkPad E and L series are also better options than the cheapo Asus/Acer/Dell laptops from the Aspire, Inspiron and K/X series.

 

So it's kind brand family based than brand itself. What about Pavilion ? And how does for instance Aspire series fair in comparison to Inspiron series? For instance I suspect the Dell 7567 is better than the Aspire VX or Legion y520, but how can I quantify this?

 

I was talking mostly about the low end spectrum - Aspire E/F against Inspiron 3000/5000 and so on. Pavilions are in the same boat. Those machines should all be avoided for the most part. 7567 is more or less an Alienware 15.6" Lite Edition - it's very durable in terms of chassis stability with a large battery and proper cooling. The VX15 is like a cheaper version of the V Nitro, however, V Nitro were never really good to begin with so the VX15 is just a cheaper version of an already pretty cheap machine. The newer VN7-593/793 is better built but the 1060 models have severe heat issues so it's really down to the money they are asking.

The Y520 is a step-down from the older Y700 in terms of, well, most things. It has crappy Harmon speakers (Y700 had solid JBL 2.1 audio), has a worse screen, is all plastic vs the metal+soft-touch Y700 and offers a MUCH smaller battery that is good for about 3.5 hours vs the 5 hours that most Y700s can get. The only real upgrade is the 1050 Ti over the 960M

 

I actually share your exact same opinion. However, I keep trying to test and promote my website on reddit, and the other people there keep recommending Acer laptops. I almost never recommend Acer because I know they tend to break down fast, but everyone there seems to be so keen on them. I was wondering if I was missing something.

 

Their Predators are fine, more than fine actually, they're damn right good (apart from looks). Their V Nitro series have always had heat problems, though the 1050 Ti models that just came out are good. The VX are just not as good as the 7567. That's all. It's an okay laptop but the 7567 is simply better for the same money. Anything lower is a waste of money

 

But what about electronics? Just to give you an example: I had to deal with multiple Dell and Clevo machines. The Dell machine always fail on me after a while, especially when I start to fiddle around with them, like changing CPUs, video cards, displays, etc.The Clevos have much worse build quality but electronic wise I never had a failure, their Mobos seem just as robust as a desktop mobo.
What I am trying to say, the predator may be a good machine with good cooling and build quality, but I always had the feeling that Acer laptops will fail after 2-3 years of use regardless.

 

If you're killing things with electrostatic discharge, that's on you man. I've played around with a lot of boards and have never seen electrical components die randomly. Even on a 10-year-old Asus laptop with an AMD Athlon X2 and ATI HD3000 iGPU. Motherboard durability is mostly about not overloading it by pushing it beyond its limits ala Razer.

 

Neah, all of these systems failed in use, not when I opened them up. But I see your point.

 

Luck is also a factor - I've never had a machine that I have not RMAed at least once

 

Well, I still use my Acer 5930G from 2008 as the only/main computer.
The good thing about it is easy access to most critical components (CPU, RAM, GPU, HDD/SSD, and fan/air vent). I just remove the lower panel (which covers the components) and I have access to the heatsink (which I can remove) to clean the air vent and fan, and also replace the thermal paste.

I think one of the more important things about a laptop is having easy access to its components for maintenance (as I described it) without having to disassemble the laptop altogether.

However, when it comes to quality and reliability, it varies from OEM to OEM.
Acers are usually perceived as cheap things that fall apart rather fast... however, mine was a mid range laptop with a price of £600 in late 2008 (minus SSD, CPU and RAM upgrades which I did over time) and its still alive and well.

The screen's backlight did give out on me after about 6 years of initial purchase.

Overall however, it seems to be holding out relatively well.
I still clean it periodically from dust and replace the thermal paste and the laptop seems to be going strong still... however, I do intend on replacing it with an all AMD laptop once Ryzen comes out.


As I said, reliability will vary from one manufacturer to the next. Generally, I'd opt for a laptop within your price range that preferably has easy access to internal components which doesn't require full disassembly and from a relatively reputable manufacturer.

In all the time I had my laptops, I hadn't returned either to the manfuacturer at all because it usually came down to something I was able to fix on my own.

Generally, I also tend to play with undervolting... which lowers produced heat at stock speeds and extends the life expectancy of the laptop further.

Low end solutions usually have poor cooling... something which seems to permeate every conceivable laptop on the market since this hasn't been reworked from the first laptop iteration on the market.

 

Deleted due to being... superfluous.

 

As a whole, the business class machines save for lowest end and the ruggedized milspec laptops have the longest useful service lives of laptops as a whole. Panasonic ToughBooks have the best reliability of any laptop as a statistical whole.

 

Yeah, but what if we had to give them a reliability score form 1 to 10 ? How about then ?

 

Panasonic Toughbook full ruggeds like CF 30 and CF 31, 10! Semi rugged ToughBooks 9, Business class middle to high end laptops 8 on average. Apple MacBooks, 7, from there on down.

 

Wow! That's very useful!

 

So I was having this discussion with someone on reddit regarding reliability and he claimed that the XPS 15 is identical to the Precision 5520 apart from the video card. I am fairly certain that the Precision is better build and more reliable, but maybe I am wrong. What's the story from your perspective?

 

Agreed; the Precision is in a different league (regarding reliability).

 

They're identical. The only real difference is the Quad/Xeon vs the i7/GTX components. Build quality is the same, the chassis is the same, keyboard is the same - it's all the same, maybe the screen might be different but otherwise, yeah, similar to the bone.

 

Is it possible that they have different quality controls on the production line?

 

Possible but I doubt it's much different. XPS series are part of Dell's premium products that also get the NBD treatment

 

Ok. But this goes against the theory that business laptops are more reliable than consumer grade laptops, or that business grade laptops from the higher tiers are better than Macs. From what I have read on forums, the XPS has more problems than MacBooks.

 

XPS purchasers are often enthusiasts who tend to be quite demanding and also looking for ways to make their computers run even faster with potential weaknesses which normal users would never notice becoming prominent. My Precision 5510 (essentially the same as the XPS15 9550 except for the business-orientated dGPU) has been trouble-free except for a couple of BIOS issues.

John

 

Well, that is because XPS machines are NOT intended as gaming devices. People expect to be able to use the 1050 inside the 9560 for games whereas in reality, it's meant to be used for CAD and CUDA acceleration while video editing. It's a luxury device, not a power-house. The component choices are made so as to have a fast computing experience, similar to a MacBook. MacBooks are also by no means bad devices. Overpriced? **** yeah. Bad? Not really. A truly bad device is something like the Razer Blade 14, which is designed as a gaming laptop and boasts "the best of the best in everything" but in the end, is outclassed by a lot of others due to poor design, thermal management and terrible QA/QC/Support.

 

Ok. So to sum it up:
XPS and Precision are identical but:
- it is possible they have better quality controls
- is it possible they use better components ? better screen on the Precision ? or better electronics on the motherboard? the video card is not enough to justify the price difference.

 

Dells in general run too hot, throttle everything and fail eventually.

But the Precision is the line that Dell makes where they actually try to make it work for more than two years. (my experience).

XPS is not even on the radar for reliability.

 

That is not a good way to word it or describe it. Saying "All of X brand machines do Y thing" is just wrong. It is, in no way, ever, applicable to ANY brand of ANY industry.

Dell have a few models with poorer design, but then you have high-end solutions from them such as the Latitudes, Precision and XPS series. The entry-level Inspiron 7567 also boasts the best cooling solution in any sub-1000$ laptop. Same with last year's overbuilt 7559 and this year's 5576.

And then you have Alienware, their gaming-oriented line which, although expensive, offers some of the best build quality on the gaming market. Cooling is also very solid.

So yeah, saying "everything Dell overheats and fails" is just ignorant. Sorry, but you've got no data to back it up.

 

My first Dell laptop lasted more than two years and it was a consumer model. Some new fans and alone grease kept it going for another two.

My precision has been fine for four I think, with only a failed wifi card replaced under warranty. So far it's still going strong.


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Slight differences in features meaning slightly different board design would be my guess. Some of it is also likely a because they can kind of thing. Dell is in the business for the sake of making money and they will charge what they think the market will bear. If some executives feel they can charge more for a Precision because of the branding, you can bet they'll do it because they can.

 

Business laptops tend to be built with different materials in regards to chassis which can improve durability.
This can also translate to a better screen quality, but overall, these products are aimed more to mitigate potential damage from falls, etc.

I don't think the materials themselves are that much more expensive... in various cases, they can be easier and cheaper to work with.
It's just that OEM's like to put a price premium on these 'business grade laptops' for nothing more than increasing the price.

Look at the differences between consumer and pro GPU's. They are identical hardware wise. They usually differ these days in terms of being disabled in one way or another either on a BIOS or hardware level.
Otherwise, they are based on same chips of the generation they are built from. Pro ones might have better cooling and generally get slightly better quality control... but in all reality, they should be doing this for ALL laptops.
There is no particular reason business laptops should cost more in comparison to consumer ones because the more you diversify your production, you split your resources between commercial and business brands.
Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to just make everything with higher quality on the same production line which will bring your costs down in the long run as well as opposed to having separate ones?

 

What you're paraphrasing isn't what I said though...

Re-read my post. My experience is much different from your opinion.

I have many clients with ThinkPAD's which have lasted up to a decade and I have had a few myself that lasted a dozen years (not all in my use...) too. There is no Dell notebook I have seen in use over 5 or 6 years old.

Dell doesn't build for longevity. That is what my experience with them and my clients usage shows.

 

Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of studies that have been done on which brands and models last longer than others. One reason for that is the high rate of model refreshes - as soon as a study comes out comparing models A, B, & C, those systems get replaced by A2, B2, & C2, which could have the same name but otherwise be different in several respects.

However, with that said, the studies I have seen point to business-focused systems generally having better build quality and on average at least 7% fewer problems over 3 years than consumer-focused systems. That means a Lenovo Thinkpad P, T, or X series; HP Elitebook or ZBook; or Dell Latitude or Precision will likely outlast almost anything else out there except Toughbooks.

And for a bit of anecdotal evidence, I've owned 3 computers - 2 Asus units and my current Thinkpad. The Asus systems lasted 3-4 years each before either hardware failure or unacceptable performance, and the Thinkpad is currently 5 years old and still running great.

 

And this post is being typed on a 8 year old Dell Latitude E5510, and my Lenovo ThinkPad T410 is 7 years old, neither of them were new or first owner. Both workhorses. Both have been reliable and never let me down.

 

Then again I am also using an 8 (soon to be 9) year old M570TU from Clevo.

 

Would you say that a Precision 7000 series has a about 10% less chance of getting a failure vs an Apple Macbook Pro ? Based on my estimates that's how things end up. Or should it be better. My estimates place for instance Apple reliability to be similar to the Precision 3000.

 

After some research and extrapolation, I concluded that these are the most reliable laptops, ordered from best to worst.

Top series:

Panasonic Thoughbook Gen
Dell Precision 7000
Dell Latitude Rugged
HP Zbook
Lenovo Thinkpad P
Dell Precision 5000
Dell Latitude 7000
Dell Precision 3000
Lenovo Thinkpad X
Vaio
Dell Vostro/Latitude 5000
Apple MacBook
Lenovo Thinkpad T
HP EliteBook
Microsoft Surface
Fujitsu Lifebook
Toshiba Portege
Toshiba Tecra
Fujitsu Stylistic
Lenovo Thinkpad Yoga


Bottom series:
Lenovo Ideapad 500
MSI Classic CR
MSI Gaming GL
Dell Inspiron 3000
Gigabyte Q series
Acer Aspire F
Acer Aspire E
Samsung Notebook 3
HP G series
HP Pavilion
Samsung Notebook M
Lenovo Ideapad 300
Lenovo Ideapad 100
Asus VivoBook

 

What research led you to those conclusions?

 

I number of them, from square trade to consumer reports and forum posts. Not entirely scientific, but it's the best I could come up with.

 

Thanks for the reply.

In my experience; your resources (which I've done similar research with a few times myself) doesn't match my direct experience.

ThinkPAD's (and not all models - i.e. the newer ones, yet) are the only business notebook I have the most confidence in based on results.

The other manufacturers don't come close (for my or my clients needs).

 

My experience is different. With Latitudes being better than Thinkpads. If you have any extra info on notebook reliability I would gladly take into consideration.

 

I think it's worth distinguishing between ThinkPads from before and after IBM sold the division to Lenovo.

 

Unfortunately IBM is not longer doing any Thinkpads, although they were supposedly the best. The new Thinkpads are ok, but not as IBM used to make them. I am only dealing with laptops which are currently on sale.

 

That's fine, and makes perfect sense. I was just mentioning the superior build quality in the IBM era as one reason why those who have been at this for a while have high opinions of thinkpads.


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