How To Differentiate Laptops Based on Ability To Increase PL2 Limits

In my ongoing effort to understanding what makes gaming laptops tick, I happened across these two reviews posted by @Quadron WRT the Aorus X9 and X7 V8 laptops. Specifically, these two statements:

and

When I review the specs for new laptops (yes, I continue to shop!), nowhere do I see advertised whether the laptop's BIOS will lock-out the ability to raise the power limits. I've seen threads where some HQ processors like mine have a performance mode tweak in the BIOS that permits raising PL1 and PL2 limits. Of course, my virgin and locked BIOS does not.

There are a number of 8850H and 8950HK laptops being offered. We have seen that the 8850H Acer Predator Helios 500 is power limit throttled due to its poor cooling design. Other than throwing it off the top floor of a tall building, there really isn't any way of speeding that puppy up even with the 8850H. With regards to the Aorus X7 and X9 laptops, the reviewer was able to increase the PL1 and PL2 limits successfully so that all cores could be locked at a stable overclocked frequency. That ability in and of itself is not advertised. But, the benchmark scores showing that laptop's performance do imply that possibility.

Decently (remember I have expensive tastes) configured 8850H laptops are comparable with some 8700K configured laptops. Not necessarily looking at trying to make the benchmarker record club (kind of happy in the tidy bowl club), I would like that choice even to an extremely modest amount in a laptop.

Is it safe to say:

8850H laptops should be PL1 and PL2 configurable to sustatin modest overclock?

Is this ability a crap-shoot and not known until you've already purchased the unit?​

8700K laptops are the only laptops where you can be assured ability to modify PL1 and PL2.​

 

Yes, otherwise you should get a i7 8750H

Pretty much, unless your laptop comes with a Prema BIOS.

You can do that in XTU, but not in the stock BIOS.

 

I think this is an important piece of information that is not well communicated to people looking at new equipment. Guess this topic came up long, long ago and was buried in the coffee lake thread. I think the topic should be more visible since we provide our recommendations to members looking to buy a new machine, but we don't provide them with a key piece of information: not all laptop OEMs are created equal; not all supposedly equivalent-performance laptops will perform as one would intuitively think. Helios 500 vs Aorus X7. Great example where both use the same supposedly higher end processor; both are locked down by a "black box" BIOS that kills performance; only one has the ability to mitigate that cancer partially.

Is this the state of all BGA laptops? I was looking at cinebench R15 comparisons of CPUs, and noticed that the published scores of the 8850H seemed kind of low compared to what I had seen in the Aorus X7 review. Then I realized these benchmarks were stock configurations. Complete with cancer effects included. How do informed shoppers make the right decisions when the internet-salesmen (run of the mill reviewer) can't even publish meaningful results. Just because I game, and am not a professional enthusiast, I should be happily ignorant of the glorified console I am purchasing?

Is this really the reason that LGA prema-mod laptops are at least honest performance-wise? Do users of this forum not have any tools to wade through the muck to really understand what purchases best meet their needs?

 

You can tell I'm an engineer (Penn State, mind you). I'm great at converging on my own answer.

 

PL1/PL2 limits and time, voltage, ICCmax, core ratios, and memory are adjustable in the stock BIOS on Clevo LGA systems if you have an unlocked CPU.

 

Although LGA laptops are certainly better positioned to be modified/repaired by the owner, the real advantage/selling point seems to be in the unlocked nature of the BIOS itself. I've gone around the block a number of times with Android Nexus devices (had the 4, 5, 6). On each device, I really took heart in the fact that I could unlock the bootloader, root, add a custom recovery program, and flash custom ROMs. Seems to be a very similar analog with LGA devices. With performance locked by the OEM, only the LGA route provides the owner with full control over the device. Hmmm.

 

The MSI BGA Titan laptops with HK unlocked SKUs' adhere to the Power limit 1 and 2 manual bios overrides, with some RESTRICTIONS.

1) Absolute AC power draw must not exceed hardwired amounts based on the video card that is installed (this can be hacked to the highest version SKU in RW Everything), or your CPU will throttle
2) Battery must be connected and above a low charge % limit or you will throttle past a reduced AC power draw limit (this can be hacked via RW Everything IF you unplug the battery).
3) improper power ID unrecognized by the Embedded Controller programmed into EC RAM register E3--causes CPU to throttle at base TDP and ignore power limit overrides (MSI 16L13 LGA system is affected by this). Changing IMON SLOPE (lower than 100) and IMON OFFSET (negative value up to -31999) to make the CPU report it's using less power than it really does, can avoid this, on multiple systems (MSI, eVGA)

 

I think it comes down to enthusiast experiences mainly, and maybe the odd cluey reviewer. The best source of this info would be an owners lounge here. Ask an owner to fire up Throttlestop (or XTU) and see what can be changed, and then observe what actually changes, and isn't overridden.

I reckon most 8750/8850H can be put into two categories.
1. "Just enough" spec in terms of cooling and power delivery, so locked down to reduce failures;
2. Good spec but locked down to avoid stealing sales from a higher i9 SKU that does have an adjustable power limit

Editing the bios to unlock is potentially possible but is very risky without recovery tools and of course poof goes the warranty.

 

Lovely. Learned by MSI's engineers. As they said... Working as designed!
Alienware 15 R3/15 R4/17 R4/17 R5 performance issue or battery drain while AC adapter is connected Dell.com/support

 

Most modern laptops are limited on controller firmware level, 'unlocked BIOS' alone stopped working around 2015...

 

How to disable MSI Battery boost.
1) remove the battery (Disables NOS and causes CPU PECI overridden PL throttling at much lower than maximum AC power load)

2) download RW Everything.

3) Set the following registers in EC RAM (embedded controller):
Register 31->09
Register 42->64
Register E3: Set to GTX 1080 power ID if your SKU allows a GTX 1080 in that mainboard:
=11 (GT73VR skylake, GT75 Titan).
=91 (GT73VR Kabylake, GT75VR)
=33 or B3 (MSI 16L13).

Lower models that come with a GTX 1060: increase value in EC RAM register E3 by "1" and test. The wrong value in EC RAM register E3 will enforce CPU default TDP even on unlocked SKU's.

Bypassing CPU TDP (works for Embedded Controller PECI also):
In Unlocked Bios or via RU EFI boot (if the hex offsets are known):
IMON SLOPE=50
IMON OFFSET= negative (-) 31000 (set to half of max value).

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If the battery is installed, the absolute ONLY way to stop draining from the battery is:
1) set GTX 1080 power ID (this raises the "battery boost" start point from the 1070 power ID by a little bit):

2) Use RW Everything:
EC Register "C5": change the 9E to 80.
This will DISABLE NOS completely, preventing any battery drain but will force reduced AC power ceiling before CPU gets throttled: Then change IMON SLOPE=10 and IMON OFFSET= (negative) -31000. If you don't exceed a reported 45W of CPU TDP, you're good. Some users have had their 45W CPU reporting 10W of power after doing this with the two IMON values.

How to disable Alienware Battery Boost:

Sell your BGA throttlebook and buy a Clevo P870 TM1 from HIDevolution with a Prema Bios.