How do you want your next laptop to be built?

I'm sure first time computer buyers is childish. They are often young as you know. Why shouldn't Eurocom + etc others reach out to new or first time buyers? Not all have the fully knowledge about what's out there. Give out Info is the main target!!

 

I don't even know what the 1st sentence is supposed to mean. Also Eurocom is not reching out to a new target group, quite the opposite, Eurocoms targetgroup are people who are more into tech and know quite a bit about IT in general. The average buyer doesn't even know what a CPU is or at least only has a vague idea about what it is.

The numbers actually speak for themselves, roughly 300votes only? That's nothing. It only proves to what I'm saying.

People like us are a minority.

 

Large poll numbers from the heart of LGA Central - here or Eurocom's poll - is just the Choir taking attendance

 

and @Mr. Fox

We need to somehow get this poll linked on the front pages of Notebookcheck.net and Notebookreview. I'd imagine there would be a variety of tech enthusiasts who read the articles, and are at least knowledgeable of the basics and principles, but don't necessarily talk on forums.

 

But why? It's pointless. People on NBR and NBC are people who have way more knowledge about components and hardware.

If you want a fair poll, u'd have to go to a university or highschool. U'd have to change the poll since 90% don't even know what it means, but that is the closest demographic of people who would realisticly considering buying a gaming notebook.

U'd have to make a poll like this:
I want my laptop to be built with:

1. Socketed CPU and MXM GPU
   
   
2. Replaceable MXM GPU
   
   
3. Has to run my games in high settings and look cool.
   
   
4. Has to look cool and run games somewhat.
   
   
5. I don't mind as long it runs.

Most would go for 3 or 4. That's why notebooks with MXM and CPU sockets are starting to die.

 

Yes, change the poll demographics in order to get your desired outcome

 

Exacly. If you want to have a Poll that means something then it has to be a target group that the company is referring to.

In our case simply young people between 16 and 30 years old. And most do not even know what a CPU is.

 

Guys... To be clear, this poll was intend for the people responding to it. Changing the demographic would be the wrong move and it would not serve the correct purpose.

I wanted this poll to reflect how many people that view themselves as being technical experts and/or enthusiasts, or "hardcore gamers" (as they like to refer to themselves) are actually satisfied and content with the pathetic crippled filth being shoveled their way. This poll is a pulse check on the power user end of the spectrum. Our poll here, and the one on the Eurocom web site, reflect a census from power users and performance enthusiast, not those who are mainstream consumers with a low standard and huge lack of understanding. I don't give a flying [insert a naughty word here] what mainstream consumers think. Their thoughts are not important here. They have everything they need and expect in notebook options in every price range no matter what brand they might choose to buy. No change is necessary for them.

Polling consumers that know nothing about computers would simply reinforce or validate the reason we have limited options and why everything is so lame and sucky for us as it already is today. The OEMs/ODMs are catering to the ignorant and misinformed and slopping out pathetic trash that appeals to them. Fine... whatever. That's not the problem as much as a total absence of acceptable options among most brands that sell what they want people to believe are high performance notebooks. It is inexcusable for all but a few Clevo models and only one MSI whitebook to be built like kiddo trash. It is a black mark on every brand's butt that doesn't bring something worthy of our consideration to the table.

And, to further clarify, I am not speaking about people in this forum that would answer the poll with the last question. Guys like @Jarhead and @Starlight5 are technically savvy people, but their interests are totally different. There is nothing wrong with that. It is just different. They do not view themselves as being part of the same enthusiast niche market. It does nothing to diminish their knowledge or skill. The last question in the poll fits their scenario like a glove and that is appropriate based on their focus. That is the right way to use BGA, if there is such a thing as right way. Using it presents no impediment or adverse impact on anything. With no discrete GPU the motherboards are (or should be) cheap and the CPU does not need to be a powerful monster chip. Average consumers generally fall into this market by default, but they tend to migrate toward the extra cheap junk like the Dell, HP and Acer trashbooks sold at Walmart, Target and Best Buy.

 

No, you missed the point. Putting the poll on NBR and or NBC opens it up to the intended demographic... people out to buy hardware and or enthusiasts who like to be informed. If the people who read up and research what they buy want to see BGA thin and sexy laptops, then so be it.

This poll was never intended for the "mass market". They will always buy BGA or whatever is mid-range or cheap. They will also never see the poll, because what do they care?

This Poll is intended for Gamers, enthusiasts, and tech aficionados... This is also the fastest growing and most lucrative PC market, as "mass market" mid-range and cheap PC sales have been on decline for a few years now (in favor of tablets and smartphones).

Should note: business laptops are another category with security features and usually up to management (also sales on small decline)

 

The poll is useless since we all know that we would all prefer socketed CPU's and MXM cards. It's no secret, it's common sense. It's like making a poll on a trucker site asking who likes their truck with nice equiptment and big motor and who would want a standard truck, obv. 90% would vote for the full eq truck.

 

This poll is really useful IMO

I'm thinking to post a poll like this in an italian tech forum. I'm really curious

 

I'd like to add that while I am generally OK with BGA CPUs & using iGPU, I am NOT in any way satisfied with current laptop market situation. Vendors do NOT offer features I need&want in a single package. E.g. I had to mod my current main machine beyond what is offered by factory so that it could meet all of my requirements - and battery life question is still there, even after undervolting.

 

The issue is not that they put a BGA CPU on the mainboard, the issue is how they do it. The implementation of some people is downright ridiculous. I mean highend hardware BGA'ed in a slim case is just plain dumb.

Out of curiousity, what notebook do u have and what did u do? I did some crazy things with mine as well.

It might get useful in your tech forum if they are not notebook related, but desktop PC users who also use notebook as a side addition.

 

@Danishblunt I currently use Thinkpad Yoga 260 with both WiGiG & WWAN as my main machine. They come from factory with either - or none at all, like mine originally - not both. I generally upgrade RAM, SSD, WLAN card in my machines, and add WWAN when possible.

My second convertible tablet - Fujitsu T734, the last of such devices with socketed CPU - was purchased with CPU upgrade to i7 quad in mind, and possible eGPU usage. Neither happened - but everything else was upgraded; I also DIY'ed a caddy for second SSD, since the original was inadequately expensive and hard to source.

FWIW before falling victim to embrace of convertible tablets, I too had an LGA&MXM gaming laptop, which I upgraded the hell out of. =p

 

I think it is useful. If the right people see it (reps from resellers and such that have influence with the companies they represent) it could cause some reflection by those in the ivory tower. Not from a point of concern with end user happiness as much as "the natives are restless and are not going to buy our garbage any more" or "hmm... looks like an untapped market ready for harvest" kind of thing. Might not happen, but it certainly won't happen if we don't give them something to look at.

And, even if they don't look, don't care, and don't act on the information, it is still good for us to know we are not alone. We all know that misery loves company, LOL. In a world dominated by uninformed and disinterested consumers, it would be appropriate to feel neglected. The top of the food chain is a lonely place to be, LOL. I know, that sounds elitist. But, it would be appropriate for elitists to act and sound elite, right?

 

I'm amazed that only one other person went for option 2 with me. CPUs, even wimpier BGA ones, can last for a long time. My Lenovo Y410p came with an i7-4700MQ and a 750m. If I could throw a 1050 in here, I would probably see no reason to upgrade until Intel retires the Core architecture in several years. If given a magic wand, I would push a new ExpressCard standard out before I would about care about more LGA laptops. That way people could have some port customization, or the ability to obtain new ports that didn't exist when their laptop was manufactured. As someone who doesn't demand much from their CPU, this would be more useful.

 

@laserbullet ExpressCard was a great concept indeed - with terrible realization. Even later flush cards adding USB3 and/or eSATA were sketchy at best, while those atrocities sticking out of a notebook a few cms were just terrible and not! eGPU via ExpressCard was a great option at the time, though - severely limited by compatibility problems, but still fascinating.

 

Well no.

Sure, we are happy when we get a new machines which we can upgrade and such, but the issue is, when we buy a machine we will likely NOT be buying another one anytime soon. Instead we upgrade parts and first will buy a new notebook much much later, since the upgrading a notebook is cheaper for us as the users, while companies and resellers gain way more money by selling unupgradable notebooks which users have to pay full price for. The sales speak for themselves, there is no way you could ever convince people who sell notebooks with non upgradable parts who already tasted the profit to lessen their business income by starting to adapt for upgradable notebooks. It's simply not happening.

We already know that we are not alone, the fact that we talk each and every day about modding, benchmarks, temps, solutions already show us that we are not alone. About the elitiest, you are basicially spreading hate against something irrational. I mean you write under your profile "undefiled BGA hating elitest" and your signature is "BGA Turdbook Killing", which is downright silly, I mean your GPU is a BGA chip on a small PCB which is connected via MXM port, your PCH is a BGA chip on ur motherboard, your southbridge is also a BGA on ur mainboard etc. You're basicially hating on your own notebook without realising it yourself. As a person who uses common sense, it's just childish to me, even unupgradable ultrabooks have their place.

 

This is like being on blueberry picking. Maybe you believe it yourself I hear much, but this take the whole cake Sorry, but this was too fun. I expect you have same meaning for desktop processors as well

 

Since Mr. Fox had already said multiple points on this subject, I'll make it as simple as possible.

First, Alienware 17 R1 from 2013-14 in my signature. In 2015 the 860M died, I'm no OC expert here ran with Optimus crap mostly and PEG rarely without any mods or vBIOS mods, & It just died and the warranty is long gone by that time. And guess what ? I replaced it with a 980M and boom !! What year is it ?- 2017, End of the discussion !! Case Closed.

Soon I will upgrade to a GTX 1070/1080/RX480/580 and 4930MX once Eurocom releases those 3.0b MXM cards.

Now second, remember brother @Coolane 's MSI 1070N, It failed right ? due to multitude of reasons being pushing of limits to extreme on that card with Extreme TDP & Furmark (Mind you the latest LGA laptops can handle more TDP/Power than the Avg whole BGA laptop can hold, yeah it's over 300W & even the older LGA laptop ZM series can handle 200W on a 980M Chipset) and now what ? A new card is going into that slot..

Classic examples above - One normal casual gamer, Two Enthusiast. Socketed HW clearly makes a homerun.

Guess what would be the case of both of these computers are BGA ? It's not always about upgrading, Intel is screwing with the socket forcing, but the Haswell/ZM can be upgraded to 2 CPUs (As always with Intel Socket) from Haswell 4790K to 5775C and Z170 machines can upgrade from 6700K to 7700K mind you I'm only taking the top of the SKUs from the CPU refresh, considering the case where people want to save some bucks at first and can upgrade later this is a boon, No need to explain since you already know if you already read until this page & whereas in a BGA system purchase you are cash strapped permanently forget about the aftermarket upgrades, Same applies for GPUs, my case above is the best example you can find.

Nvidia ditched the standard but why ? No demand ? & No competition ! They created this, people who bought the BGA are the reason, If only people bought the machines with MXM more Nvidia or damn any OEM could have figured it out to sell the socketed stuff more, Thanks to Apple for this trash "Thin and Light" and now people want that Max Q ? Cool go ahead !!

We All know what happened to Alienware

Spoiler

Alienware History from 2006 - Present ( From King to Pauper ) and The Industries showing middle finger to consumers -

Dell had bought Alienware in 2006, it had the machines made by Clevo as a partner. which dates long back, Then further down the road we had many extraordinary machines - M15x, M17x, M17x R2 the SLI one - First gen i7 machines, Beautiful design and full customization options from website. Later we had the Sandy Bridge platform, M18x SLI 580M one and M17x R3 they all had beautiful same design principles and exemplary build quality unmatched performance and full MXM machines with precise heatsinks across all, This had continued upto the M17x R4 and M18x R2 with Ivy - Meanwhile the Desktop market also had amazing lineup with ALX chassis and Aurora, Area 51 machines which were top at that time - This is what Golden Age of Computers, Alienware, Liberty consumer choice was.

Starting from 2013 things went downhill in all, Dell announced going Private from Public in the same year 2013, Might wonder why does this have relationship ? - From a fellow member here who had a known contact at Alienware, So the reality was during the acquisition of Alienware in 2006 A deal was made, Dell will be funding the Alienware but slowly gain control over the Company and implement their own design standards, marketing strategies and principles. And immediately later 2013 - First blow was Win8 and It's B$ UEFI & the 14 Haswell machines came with HQ option - Intel BGA filth, started it was a shock to most of the people but by that time the dumbing of consumers took place, thanks to Facebook and kool-aid crap,

Also post M18x R2 time - Alienware Haswell Era with the removal of MgAlloy chassis to only middle frame, Lid being MgAlloy. Plastic Backplate with not so strong design, CPU and GPU fans with low CFM ratings, Battery removability gone need to remove the backplate, NVRAM BIOS (The Ultimate cancer infestation, CMOS reset wnt reset the BIOS need to use specific tricks, Secure Flash locking the sBIOS modding unlike the Ivy Bridge Platform - Gimped Fan tables, locked FAN RPMs in EC, No laser Etching personalized option, Removal of customization on website, AW18's motherboard hardpower cap vs M18x R2's no power cap, M18x R2 pulling from 600W using a dual power brick only match was Eurocom Panther 5 the X79 chipset machine which can run Xeons and Hexacore CPUs, She also got struck by the MXM dropping by Nvidia after Maxwell) M18x R2 started with 580M SLI to 680M SLI, 7970M CF, 780MSLI - Unfortunately 980M SLI didn't work properly when OCing the CPU and GPU causing some EC communication across the board and throttling, Dell could fix that but they didn't care. AW18 was delayed indefinitely (end of 2015) the time when Maxwell was announced maybe the Dell was restructuring the strategy and wonder why the Haswell had redesign ? Also Dell had killed the XPS performance machines to the kiddo crap now, Tried to come back with hybrid plastic combo for the Echo lineup and minimal metal....

Jaillienware now it is. 100% retarded POS garbage class (Whole brand not just NBs, Desktops are ultimate mess, A garbage fest (from Cass-Ole a fellow enthusiast, tried his best), Which is pumping this "Shiny" and brand misnomer who didn't knew what Alienware stood for and how they have been leading the crown on the path of Genocide of this BGA hell, Nice strategy they employed on forging an abomination called Metal chassis, with robust build and Ultra high performance JOKE to tune the crowd for their needs, to line their own deep pockets of insatiable hunger for cash without ethics & try to fix em up when things get to the Internet news channels ?! While keeping the gimping intact.

Since Dell departing from the PGA mobile CPUs to BGA hell Intel might have made all OEMs take the same direction, I highly suspect this is what happened with Dell dropping the socketed machines from 2014 & Intel could easily push the BGA abomination, MSI didn't even exist in this class at that time, Now here we are the BGA Genocide - All laptops shipping with that Garbage Win10 with it's UEFI, Privacy Invading, Eternal Beta cancer and BGA crap, Now MSI still offering stupid BGA CPUs while their nasty practices, famous in the MSI forum. No offense but the lack of choice and seeing consumer as just $$$$ machine is just nuts and not productive at all in both long and short run...

Same with the 3.5mm port, Apple made it let's do it Space waste !? Look at Note 8, It has a bigggg hole inside for that S-Pen and has more features and better looking than any phone and has a 3.5mm Jack.

So we need to step up the game and let others know that when you are spending over 2 grand on a machine expecting some high performance work or enthusiast class performance, BGA is not the option to even sneeze at. LGA is what we should get.

BGA is only good for traditional Internet usage, a low powered GPU/iGPU notebook or perhaps an Ultrabook but NEVER for top of the line performance, Say it has a 1080 performance and 7700K level of processing or 1080SLI what ever and say it's soldered POS, No sensible person is going to buy it, a 3-5K machine with soldered components being ended up as a brick.

NVMe is super fast but it's throttling and high temperature, do they have any more great or superlative benefit over the SATA6 850 Pro/ SanDisk Extreme Pro with 10Yr warranty vs the usual NVMe 3-5YR ? Nope, but yeah people need "thin and light" ODD was put to rest, next up is SATA III ports. Good luck for them in your slim machine enjoying some blistering hot mercury summer..

This Apple company is the seed of greed and corruption, a classic example of Savage Capitalism, Thanks to people they stopped thinking and started accepting the trash inspired by it, Winblows X, nice. Perpetual Alpha OS. No wonder soon machines will be having soldered RAM, SSDs and WLAN, everything soldered, soon the KB will be soldered too. You can carry that laptop all day without any issue and enjoy tons of battery with Top of the line gaming performance - Max Q / Tripod / Fake HS / Worse Mating surfaces (pipes - Razer)/ Poor MOSFET ventilation / Limited I/O / Locked BIOS / Locked HW.


@sicily428 's post is the perfect case where BGA get's trashed to oblivion, No questions asked, +Rep.

Spoiler: Here are couple of quotes from my posts

The day I was registered on NBR and T|I was due to the reason my Alienware M15x purchase, which was solely based on the specification of that laptop being MXM and the socketed HW, And I met great people, Svl7 was one of them. My vote will be obvious no matter what..even If I'm the only one left.

Burn the anti consumer BGA to HELL, If it's the only option going forward replacing the Socketed for High performance 1.5K+ machines

Vote with your wallet and Make every vote count

 

Yes it is a tech forum (notebook/prebuild pcs/gpus/cpus/mobo/psu/cases/mobile phones) but I'm thinking to post the poll in the notebooks section.
I made some guides about notebooks hardware (custom laptop, LGA/PGA/BGA cpus, mxm/soldered gpus, mxm upgrades, cpu upgrades) and now there are many people with enough knowledge for a poll like this

Edit
There are also users of that forum (hwupgrade) are buying LGA gaming laptops because they are better

 

I want Ryzen socketed in a laptop please.

 

@Ashtrix:
We both agree that being able to upgrade and customize ur notebook is a nice thing, but most people don't do it and won't need it.

The majority of people buy slim notebooks and don't care about performance, which gives the companies who create and sell them more money, not only do they gain more money from repairs but also the production of those unupgradable notebooks are cheaper as well. We are a minority and will stay a minority for many years.

We also agree, that BGA isn't always a problem. It only becomes a problem when you mix high end hardware in it and cause issues due to that fact. If you want to change the future of these types of notebooks, then spread awareness instead of making useless polls. Make blogs, youtube videos, explaining as to why the current industry are being idiots. Show the people why high end hardware in a slim notebook is a problem etc. Ranting about notebooks in a forum where people are around who already know that is just a waste of time, instead post these kind of things in community forums where people are around who buy these notebooks (like gaming forums etc.) without knowing the potential issues.

All you do with the "BGA to hell" and "Death to BGA" is giving people the impression that u're just another random hater spouting nonsense instead of a guy somebody would listen to.

 

I'm sure people listening. I can see it in my PM box + reps and likes from BGA owners!!

 

People can learn about notebook hardware. that's is just tested

Making some youtube videos or guides on forums about LGA/BGA, MXM/soldered gpus, TDP and cooling systems/thermal compond could help people buying better notebooks.

 

@sicily428:
exacly what I said, people should go objectively on the matter and explain why certain products are detremental and not worth buying. Also teaching people the benefits of upgradable hardware would help to some extend as well.

Sadly most people here are just interested in ranting about BGA books instead of doing something productive like making proper videos, blogs etc.

Another problem are review sites who give notebooks with clear temp issues high grades without pointing out the issues. It misleads people thinking that 90C is fine on load while completely ignoring the fact that thermal compound will get worse over time and suddenly the notebook has 100C and will throttle or even die over time.

If you actually cared about this kind of issues, you'd start doing something about it.

 

I've been mostly quiet but I think I do need to donate my own two cents (and a lot more to @Prema and @Mr. Fox if I could):
I don't think people should compare processors that are diametrically opposite. e.g. processors that are multiplier hard locked (like any HQ processor besides a 4900HQ), and a fully unlocked gas guzzler like a i7 920 d0. If BGA processors are to be compared with socketed processors, it's best that there be a few extra parameters available, like "clock for clock IPC", "Max overclocks", and so on. This instantly makes something like a 6700HQ vs i7 920 (or even a QX9650@ 4 ghz) pointless.

What I would do is : 7700HQ (3.4 ghz turbo clock on 4 cores) vs core i7 2600 (or whichever one was like the 2600k but with fully LOCKED multipliers (and thus having an IGP). I think that's the i7 2600.
Then you have socketed vs BGA, but at least both processors are multi locked. This makes more sense. Then have them both running at the max 4 core turbo speeds and bench them.

Pitting an i7 920 d0 vs a 6820HK, both running at 4 ghz is far far more realistic of a comparison. Both the 6820HK and the i7 920 d0 have realistic air overclocks topping out around 4 ghz, so I feel that's fair.

Using base clocks doesn't make sense. For example, the 7820HK has a base clock of 2.9 ghz. But even MSI makes it default to 3.9 ghz on all cores, with 100% of even the worst samples able to run at 4 ghz at stock volts.

 

Check out my YouTube channel.

This is a frequently used lame excuse for those that believe BGA is OK. We refer to BGA in derrogatory terms because of the sinister means of implementation that goes against what we value. When BGA is placed on a serviceable PCB like an MXM card, it's not a problem. The part is serviced as a discrete component and you don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water when it dies. GPUs are the most likely component to fail other than mechanical hard drives, so being able to replace them is pretty important if you plan to keep a machine beyond its warranty. The desktop GPU is also BGA mounted on a larger PCB. So, those comments can potentially serve to confuse people that already know almost nothing. It's better to keep it simple and educate them rather than add to their confusion.

If the CPU and GPU are permanently attached to the motherboard and cannot be replaced for common repair procedures or upgrades using common tools, this is a problem. Or, if those parts (like BGA CPUs used in notebooks) are inferior in terms of performance capacity, that is a problem for those that value performance more than low power consumption. This is the information those that aspire to rise from consumer/noob to enthusiast need to know. Excuses justifying BGA or distracting technical mumbo-jumbo (such as a GPU core is BGA mounted on an MXM card) offered to provide an impression that one has been endowed with superior knowledge won't help them make a wise choice to avoid disposable, crippled trash. It will only add to their confusion.

 

If each one of us posts, in a different tech or notebooks forum, a guide about teaching notebook hardware possibilities or what thin and light in a laptop really causes in terms of thermal issues or also loss of performances, that can change something IMO

The loss of infos is the matter IMO
I remember people said mxm gpus are not available and mxm gpu upgrades are not possible! No problem, I made a guide with a long list of resellers and a list of successful gpu upgrades. I'm trying to say: we should give more infos because knowledge is the key

 

Why not? Because it's unfair? No bruh. 6700/7700hq is the second best i7 mobile trash you can get from the Blue. Compare old vs. new tech although one is oc'd is still valid!! Seeing how trashy Intel's newest mobile tech is vs. before is correct. See also my post regarding 4700/4800Mq in previous posts. Second best mobile i7 is called high end by the reviewers as you know. It's Intel who have locked down their second best mobile i7!!

 

That would be sweet.

Heck, I'd even settle for a 5960X, LOL.

780W AC adapter armed and ready for battle. In fact, I've got two 780W AC adapters and an AC-100 if 780W ain't good enough.

10,000 BTU ÜBER-CÜLER reporting for duty.

Bring on the megawatts, baby!! Let the good times roll.

Turdbook Killing Spree!!!

 

Because it's like comparing apples and oranges. Unlocked processors should be matched with other unlocked processors. Look at the i7 920 d0. What's the stock speed of that processor?
why not run the i7 920 at stock and the 6700HQ at stock ? If you're going to overclock one and not overclock the other (because the other can't be overclocked), I don't like this comparison. A 6820HK vs i7 920 would make more sense. Overclockable vs overclockable. (and then you can STILL run both processors at stock speeds).

Just like no one here would even think about comparing a 7820HK vs an i7 2600 locked LGA processor (which is newer than 920 d0). The 7820HK will mop the floor with the i7 2600.

I've been studying chess today. My logic is going to be infallible.

 

We compare a 9 years Cpu with almost newest second best i7 you can get in laptops. Rather Ask Intel why they locked down one of their best laptop processors. I see you can't see why it is posted. When you buy a locked down Cpu, you are pretty screwed. Even more screwed if it is soldered on the MB.

 

Your comparisons are valid. It's just the premises (aka, thesis) that is incorrect, even though the solution is something we can all agree on (Down with BGA).
I just believe in doing things scientifically. Not trying in any way to insult you or @Mr Fox or anyone else. But you know i can't exactly turn off my brain...(Well...maybe I did when I bought my GT73VR

I think you guys know why I usually decide to just sit back and watch (unless I want to shed more tears about that 230W power limit on the 1070 GT73VR) :/

Pardon me I just want to cry and go all Marvel Electro on my crappy EC firmware

 

I already did check out your channel, u're the reason why I decide to go for liquid metal since the foam idea was smart.

Well yeah, but your signature and profile pic obviously state that you hate BGA as a whole. It's far better that you write something like "Bad impementation of BGA killing notebook industry" or something, which would make a lot more sense. If you have silly things like "BGA turdbook killing EVOC high performance systems" you're basicially saying low end BGA systems are killing high end systems as well, which is again, silly.

I know what you mean, when you write "BGA turdbook killing EVOC high performance systems", but others don't. That's why when you start an argument with anyone, you need to be precise about what you say, otherwise a lot of misimpretations will happen and make the entire conservasion pointless. The moment you write these kinds of things on your profile you loose credibility. Let's take a very simple example.

You want to learn something about a guitar, now there are 2 people out there, 1 really wants to help you out, the other guy just wants to sell something.
- Now the first guy starts talking about how type-x of guitars are all trash, turd, unusable, gets destroyed by type-y guitars and basically rants about how bad type-x guitars are.
- Now the second guy calmy expains how type-y guitars are fine and have a good price per performance ratio and how they work properly.

Obviosly you would rather want to believe the second person, so everytime the first person and the second person start to contradict each other you will then rather want to believe the second person. Since your impression of the second person was a calm headed guy who knows alot and the first person is just a guy who has some kind of hate against something.

By being so hateful towards something you only show that you get very subjective and will let people take less note of what you have to say.

When teaching someone anything, you ALWAYS have to come from an objective standpoint and give the impression that you know what you talk about. The moment you give the vibe that you might be a subjective guy who just has some kind of hate towards something your opinion will matter less than others for some people, since people who ask something will have multiple opinions whereas they do not know the answer.

The key to stop this bad implementation is BGA is to teach people about it, and to get their attention you cannot allow yourself to get subjective while teaching anything.

 

All good bruh See also my post here.

 

Words are not necessary. Pictures and numbers are more effective at getting attention. We see a picture of the #1 turdbook versus the #1 not-a-turdbook. Those that care will respond favorably and choose wisely the next time they buy a high performance notebook. We don't need to burn any calories casting pearls before swine for those that don't care. It is a waste of time if they don't care. God bless 'em. May they live long, be happy and prosper.

Spoiler: Excuses, Pictures and Numbers

Excuse Maker: But, but... That's not fair! You cannot compare them. The stronger notebook is overclocking much higher.

Excuse Breaker: Well, I just did compare them. And, that's right! It is overclocked much higher. Very perceptive! Know why? Because it can!

The other one can't. That's why it is a turdbook. And, guess which one costs more?

Excuse Maker: The turdbook?

Excuse Breaker: Yes, that's right! Good job!! My goodness, you're such a smart boy. Any more questions?

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/11988375/3dm11/12274145#

​

 

Now that's what I'm talking about!

 

This is true.
Sort of how like me raging at league of legends over noob teammates accomplishes absolutely nothing.
Regardless of the morals and ethics, there is a fine art to selling something. That's why some people major in that field, and you can get rich if you can take advantage of the right thing at the right time. If you have a better product than the shovelware items, you gain more traction if you sell it even better than the sellers do. Give the proper tools to the sheep out there, you'd be surprised as to how smart some of them can be (meaning, they turn into Rams or Bulls instead) when you give them the tools to make sound decisions.

 

To illustrate a scenario, if a guy now would ask if he should get a 7700K or 7820HK based notebook and mr.fox shows those numbers, while I'm trying to selling a 7820HK based notebook, I could simply show the user that the CPU won't bottleneck any games at all, I would then proceed to talk about how syntetic benchmarks aren't real life scenarios and hence not as useful. I would then proceed to point out that mr.fox obviously is trying to show non important benchmarks because he has a hate against BGA based CPU's and suddenly the ball is in my hand, the customer would believe me more than mr.fox, depite mr. fox making perfecly fine claims, just by his poor choice of words, he will lose credibility and the company wins.

This is one of many reasons why we get less and less customizable notebooks. People are way to elitiest about it and put in way to much subjective opinion when discussing with a person who wants to decide.So companies will make sure that people know they don't need upgradable notebooks anyways since it's overrated and therefore make cash with it, even tho having upgradable notebooks are cheaper for the user.

Also, as i can see in your signature, u got a 7820HK, which you can overclock to around 4.4kish GHZ. You won't have throttling issues for the next years. Considering tha not much has happened since ivy bridge, you probably won't have to change ur CPU the next 5 years or so.

 

Hmm, maybe you have a point. My rep points and likes probably would not be so low if I could work on improving my credibility. And, yeah... those numbers... I must have cheated or something.

Thanks. I am glad you found the information useful. That's awesome, and that is exactly why I take the time to share the information.

I agree with most of what you're saying. Those that know me well know there is not a mean bone in my body. I do hate BGA filth in something presented as a high quality, high performance product. It's a lie and a scam, and I do really hate that. But, I am sad for those that have been scammed. I would never wish that on anyone.

While I am not a mean person and always show kindness and respect to other human beings, I don't mind sharing my thoughts about garbage (obviously from the stuff I post, LOL). And, I don't mind listening to what others think, even if I think their choices are not the best. I certainly won't hate them for it. It's just stuff... none of it matters when you get down to brass tacks. Faith, family, friends, jobs, health and happiness are what really matters.

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion and I respect the right to be wrong. I know some people don't like my presentation and I'm good with that. I'm not overly worried about my credibility because my heart is in the right place, I want them to be happy and try to guide them in my own way. If they're too hung up on being offended by humor and hyperbole, they might not be reachable.

They have to understand we're here to have a good time and lighten up. At the end of the day, it's all gonna burn. We can't take the turdbooks or the monsterbooks when we go.

 

TBH that's not much of an argument. One could make some remark about echo chambers, blind squirrels, and broken clocks.

 

See my last words in my post # 124
I'm not on your level, but a lot other than only elitists, use to click likes, rep due my posts + (pm my PM box). Credibility ain't something you easily get without giving something beforehand.

 

No need for arguments. Plus, I love those things. Especially echo chambers. And, squirrel meat is delicious.

Spoiler: Broken clocks?

Ignorance can be very costly.

But, only the stupid ones. The smart ones would figure out that you're just trying to unload your turdbook so you can use the money to buy something better.

 

In many parts of the USA there's no bag limit on squirrels either!

 

Um... @Danishblunt you're completely wrong here...

actually I AM having problems with Throttling.

Damn EC embedded controller decides I'm supposed to have a max 230W system power limit because MSI SAID SO, and decides to force throttle the CPU if power draw exceeds 230W, and starts sucking absurd amount of power from the battery at >150W of power draw. I'm having throttling issues *RIGHT NOW*.

I'm using a 330W PSU, not a 230W PSU. But the EC doesn't care. See?
And I wasted $220 on a 330W PSU for nothing......

Because I have a 150W 1070 video card (not 115W).

 

Every time you mention this, my only thought is, you got what you paid for. Everyone knows that MSI enforces power draw, and upsizing your PSU doesn't change anything.

If you had read enough of the posts here before jumping into the unknown you would have known this before wasting your $ on a PSU that the MSI laptop won't take advantage of, it's very old news.

Actually, the first thing I thought of is, he shoulda bought a GT73 1080, or a MSI 16L13 1080.

Things change fast though, so you might want to enjoy what you have now and wait for the next generation Intel motherboard chipset to release, new laptops using them to release, and then wait a bit longer for all the gotcha's to be found and worked out (fixed).

Desktop CPU laptops won't be as "friendly" as the GT73 out of the box experience, and the extra power will require careful understanding of what to buy ahead of time, and patience to wait for firmware updates to fix stock limits which are just as bad as MSI GT73, or worse.

The grass is always greener, don't doubt it's going to be a trade-off to get what you want out of what you get. And, it's not guaranteed that those workarounds currently available will continue.

Instead of getting all bent out of shape by hitting your head against a wall with MSI GT73VR 1070 limits, enjoy what you have, there are many that would like to have that laptop, limits and all

 

Might want to sell it now before it loses too much value, then start saving for the next Clevo with a CFL 8700K hexacore CPU. That should be pretty sweet with 1080 SLI. That will be stock 4.3GHz turbo on 6C/12T and will likely handle 4.7-5.0GHz on 6C/12T.

 

Did you contact svet?

 

Already asked him. Svet can't do anything without risking bricking. These types of modifications require physical hardware to test them. He's tried it before and it usually takes multiple bricks before results happen. And bricking without being able to remove the EC BGA chip for reflashing is very, very bad. I don't have equipment for handling BGA hardware. I can't even desolder basic PLCC chips without damaging something...