How much over-provisioning to set for 1TB Samsung 850 Evo?

Just got my new XMG laptop with a 1TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD, the Samsung Magician software is recommending 10% of capacity for over-provisioning (but I can change this), which sounds a bit excessive - do I really need to set aside as much? Would 5% be enough?

To be honest I'm very unlikely to reach anything close to the capacity of the disk for quite some time, so if it's better for the disk's performance/life span to have this much over-provisioning set aside, I don't really mind, but is it actually going to help?

 

On my 1TB 850 Pro, i have set aside 100GB as OP so yes i would go along with Magician's recommendation.

 

I have set 23GB as OP in my 250GB 850 Pro and believe that's enough.

 

Okay, so basically 10% of my drive then?

 

That's correct.

 

Never OPed my SSD's and never saw the point of it.. My C300 never had OP whereas with my Sandisk, it's built in.. Maybe I'm a bit spoilt with Sandisk

 

First off; uninstall Samsung Magician if you don't need to perform a firmware update on one of their drives. Second, don't run any of the tool's recommended optimizations either. If you already have, I would recommend a complete/clean O/S install once again with NO TWEAKS.

With this fact alone, I don't see why you wouldn't OP your drive by 50% at this time.

You have much to gain, including lower WA and less intrusive GC routines, which directly translates to a better user experience. You also have nothing to lose either as when the capacity is needed, you can simply expand the partition as needed and this is a built in Windows feature for many years now.

Free space does not equal unallocated capacity for the SSD and it's controller. If you're a normal user and ~25GB free space is enough for your workflows, then anything above that is wasted if it's not being used as OP'ing via 'unallocated' capacity.

Uninstall the virus called Samsung Magician.

Right click on This PC and select Manage.

Select Disk Management and select your O/S (C:\ Drive) partition.

Right click on that partition and select Shrink Volume. Use a value that gives you at least 25GB free space after the shrink or the minimum free space your workflow requires (but not less than 25GB).

Congrats, you have OP'ed your SSD.

To further optimize it;

Create a partition on the 'unallocated' capacity (right click on it and create New Simple Volume).

Do a quick format and assign a drive letter. Congrats, with Win8.1, you have just TRIM'd your unallocated capacity and essentially brought that part of the drive back to as new levels of performance.

Making sure you have disabled the system from going to sleep (in the power options), leave the system/drive sitting idle for at least an hour or two (this allows the TRIM to complete fully).

After this time is up;

Select and right click on the partition we just TRIM'd and Delete Partition.

Leave it as 'unallocated' until it is needed.

(The above steps are not required if you have partitioned the drive properly/initially from Windows Setup with at least 30% OP).


The above steps will now ensure that you have the fastest user experience with your SSD (almost) no matter how you use it in your workflows.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks tilleroftheearth for the detailed information

 

Why do you consider Samsung Magician a "virus" and why would I need to re-install my OS if I want to get rid of it? They are settings in the software to reset the drive back to the original state, I think

 

Actually, I can't see anyway to revert to original state. am I screwed? I really don't want to have to reinstall the OS...

 

Even with an option to enable defaults, I've never seen that work.

Clean install recommended.

Why do I consider it a virus? Because it's running all the time, even with nothing 'enabled'. Not to mention it screws around with your system with a push of a button... (user inflicted...).

 

Okay, thanks, but that's likely half a day of the weekend gone :-(

 

I have seen Magician cause nothing but trouble especially on Windows 8.1

It's your system, if you don't clean install and run into weird issues in the future, your first suspect should be Magician. Always check your event viewer for strange errors / logs

 

Aah, youth. That is the price of impatience.

You know the old saying, measure twice, cut once? Here, it is ask first, tweak never.

 

That brought a smile, I'm 45...

With very little free time due to work and jobs around the home and spending time with the missus, hence not wishing to waste too much of the weekend.

BUT, I guess this is something I could do after breakfast tomorrow morning. Time to start gathering those drivers...

Quite. Actually, it was very good of MySN NOT to pre-install this on my XMG P505 - there was actually no real bloatware on it when I received it earlier this week. Kudos to them.

 

Aah... to be 45 again (and to be able to spin those old 45's and 78's too with the friends back then...

 

I still have some 45s, too young for 78s, though!

 

Personally, Samsung's Magician has not caused me any strife and, if it is the route to getting a firmware upgrade, then I wouldn't banish it.

John

 

John, as I already stated; updating the firmware is the only reason for this third party attempt to optimize an O/S that is already running fine by default.

And if you happen to miss doing an update when it first appears, that is not a bad thing with Samsung at this point either.

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...re-exm02b6q-removed-from-samsung-site.771955/

 

Samsung's own garbage software .. Firmware update ISSUED Using samsung's Magician Software.Read comments. http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/after-samsung-840-evo-issues-now-the-850-pro-has-issues-too,2.html

 

Can we be sure that the OS is optimized? Particularly if notebook manufacturers apply their own tweaks.

There also the issue of power management. I previously provided a link to this but there's no harm in reminding people of that issue. However, I don't know whether the low idle power consumption of my EVO mSATA is due to Samsung Magician's optimizations or that the SSD is inherently better than the Crucial SSDs in this respect.

John

 

Okay, I've now done all this, fresh install of Windows 8.1 and have left 320GB unallocated, which should still leave me enough space for the next few months.

BTW should I turn off Windows indexing to prolong the life of my drive, or can this have bad consequences?

 

Won't make a difference one way or another to the life of the drive, but you will lose the ability to search.

I recommend you don't cut Windows O/S off at the knees.

Yes, we can be sure the O/S is optimized. That is why I always recommend a clean install.

 

Okay, I'll leave it on

 

@ tilleroftheearth :

Hi. You sound very sure of everything you write against Samsung Magician, so i had to add my two cents as i'm using it myself too.

This program, as you state, is not doing any magic, just tweaking the system in ways you can do it alone. Ok, but apart from computer geeks, who prefers to go through the 10-step process your detailed, rather than clicking on three buttons? It seems to me that Samsung Magician performs well for what it does., what exactly don't you like in it? You can of course close it after you enhanced your system and never open it again.

You say taht Windows is optimized already, no need to touch it. I'm not such an expert as you seem to be on this point, so i'd rather only ask questions here:

Does Windows (7, in my case), already set an over provisioning partition?
Does Windows install a RAPID technology by itself?
Does Windows performs the TRIM operation alone?

Honestly, i had only one trouble with Samsung Magician: when i enabled RAPID (which wasn't enabled by default) my SSD started to freeze often. Disabled it and i'm good.

 

Lol... (to bolded text).


Over Provisioning as I'm using/defining it is to leave 'unallocated' capacity on the drive equal to at least 25% and higher (the sweet spot, ime, is 30% or more). This is irrespective of what the SSD ships with (stated or falsely calculated by certain parties).

With that definitions out of the way, no O/S I know OP's an SSD by default. This is a manual process which ideally takes place when the SSD is brand spanking new and you are clean installing the O/S (Windows 8.1 x64 Pro highly recommended... and soon, I'm sure Win10x64Pro will be my latest recommendation too) via the 'Advanced' setup routine so you can choose the drive to install to and also set the capacity amount too.

RAPID as you have seen is a joke. Windows has been doing this for years and is a core function of the O/S (i.e. 'bulletproof'). Max out the RAM in your system and let Windows do it's job.

Windows does not perform the TRIM operation. The SSD does. But TRIM is supported in Win7 and higher.

Trusting a third party to mess around with your O/S install (via 'tweaks') is like trusting the fruity or the robotic company with your digital life (sounds majorly messed up to me).

Hope this helps.

 

Your post was super usefull and enlightening, but will this way of forcing TRIM only work with Win 8.1??
I hope it will too with any OS that supports TRIM, as Win 7...

Thanks!

 

Thanks.

Any Windows O/S past Win7SP1 with the appropriate AHCI driver will work in a similar way.

Remember that TRIM is not a command to the SSD that is done on demand; it is a 'suggestion' that the O/S makes and the drive will act upon once it deems it has enough idle time to do so.

That is why I suggest leaving the system on and idle (do not allow it to sleep during this time) for at least an hour or two. Overnight is better, if you can. Best is to create the new partition, do a quick format and then boot up the system into the BIOS and leave it there as long as you can (again; at least an hour or two) - in the BIOS, Windows cannot interfere at all with the drive and make it second guess whether to run TRIM or not.

 

Thanks for the BIOS trick! Didn't know how to secure the idle time...

I've seen Win 8.1 has an improved defragmenter with treats SSDs properly and optimizes them and lets you make that "cleaning" when it's needed because of loss of performance once or twice a year (they say...).
I'm also gonna take a look at what Piriform Defraggler Professional does to SSDs with its Optimize SSD Disk.

Thanks again for your time!

 

There is nothing to suggest you need to let your computer idle for hours. Many SSD reviews will let the system idle for 10-15 minutes and shows a rebound in performance. Each brand and every type of SSD has its own firmware/algorithm, allowing it to perform its garbage collection and wear leveling differently. In most cases, the system doesn't need to be completely idle, just low use is enough.

I'd recommend against defragging your SSD. The Defraggler just issues the TRIM command on an SSD when you select to "Optimize SSD Disk". This is no different than Windows 8.1 "Optimize SSD" command. Windows runs the "Optimize" command on its own once a month. Otherwise you can run it yourself at any time with no issue.

 

@tilleroftheearth Wow, this is some good amount of information which will lead me to change quite a few things on how I set up my drives. So far I quickly deactivated the RAPID mode and will definitly not install magician on next reinstall of OS. I actually just had to register to like your post. Also, just want to add some comments/questions...

I assumed most SSD's already come provisioned by default. For example, the 1TB Samsung 850 I just received is Supposed to be 1TB, but there is 7% less which is not visible to the system (I only see 931GB). In this case, I already have 74GB provisioned, no? If so, is that sufficient or should an additional 25GB be unallocated to further optimize it? Or maybe it should be a certain percentage of the drive (some specify 10%). The other thing is that the drive I put in is brand new, I just wish I read you post beforce allocating all the space for one drive. Now can I just simply shrink the volume and have it pe over provisioned, Or do I still need to create a new volume in the unallocated space and wait for it to trim (I believe Windows 10 allows you to manually trim when you click optimize so may not need to wait long)?

Does any of the above get impacted if SATA mode is set to RAID vs AHCI mode? I set it to RAID a while ago not to actually raid anything but so that I can test the SSD caching feature with my backup HHD using Intel Rapid Storage Software. I'm not sure I'm getting any improvements so far since I'm not running any applications from my HDD (just photos, videos, docs..). If you have an opinion on IRST for HDD caching, woudl definitly like to hear.

 

@akpuggy storage producers measure capacities in decimal, while most OS count it in binary terms. 931.29GB in Windows equals 1TB capacity printed on SSD. I personally use my 1TB SSD partitioned as enterprise drives of the same line - to 800 billion bytes, or 744GB in Windows. It may be an overkill for you, though.

 

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/why-over-provision.760922/#post-9766709

The difference between the decimal and binary units mentioned by Starlight5 in addition to any OP'ing the manufacturer builds into their product doesn't count for the OP'ing I do. All that 'default' OP'ing does is ensure the drive performs at the minimum performance required for (just past) warranty.

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ograms-and-winrar.787721/page-2#post-10203225

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/why-over-provision.760922/#post-9767845


See:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/3d-xpoint-guide,4747.html

In the quote above, the effective OP'ing is just over an indicated 52%... and that's on an Xpoint SSD...

OP'ing is alive and well in 2016/17/18/19/20... Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Everything past the CPU and the RAM (CPU+RAM=Work 'done') is just a version of cache for the cpu/ram combo to get the instructions and data to the CPU registers and then actually do something with that data/instruction set.

Storage via SATA (I, II, or III) or even NVMe (SATA - ugh!, PCIe v3 - x2, x4 and even x8, see article linked, or PCIe v4...) is effectively like using USB Ethernet (yeah, even USB 3.1...) vs. a 10GbE/Thunderbolt connection. And even then, those latter connection types have their own limitations too (cost, power and heat). The limiting factor becomes the translation (i.e. 'caching') of the storage medium's inner workings to the raw data and instructions the cpu+ram is always waiting for.

See:

OP'ing effectively removes as much of the 'inner' machinations that any SSD currently must do to keep itself alive, let alone perform.

See:

3D Xpoint technology (especially with the DRAM/RAM derivative, when it arrives for mere consumers like us...) will be a quantum leap for Intel based platforms (yeah; not hoping for much from AMD here).

Even then, the capacity may be marketed as 1TB, but internally, it may just be a 2TB or larger drive we're buying (and OP'ing or not is not an option anymore...).

Today, we (still...) have to do things a little more hands on (whoa... we're the pioneers here... ), but the end results are worth 'sacrificing' some capacity for the much improved user experience.

While it is ideal to OP the SSD from first use, just follow the directions already given and you'll still get the improvements OP'ing offers.

So, to your question about SSD caching? Don't do it. Like you've seen firsthand; no improvements worth the risk/cost of such a setup. Instead, use the most current, biggest, highest quality (scale: 'Quality' through - 3D MLC=>MLC=>3D TLC=>TLC - to 'Junk') with the highest %age of OP'ing above 33% that you can make work for your workflows/workloads and reap the highest storage performance possible today.

See:

The final quote above is what has me excited about computing again.

Yeah, 3D Xpoint is taking forever to show up (it seems), but the next step is not only visible (Xpoint DRAM), but is being implemented into current and future products already. The foundation is being poured. We'll be moving into true high performance computing soon (6TB 'RAM' anyone**...).

**

So, no. Don't add to the OP'ing the manufacturer may or may not have implemented for warranty concerns.

OP at least 25% to 33% or more (if you can actually spare the capacity) of the actual capacity actually available on your SSD (as shown by the advanced Windows installer screens) if you want to see a truly fast platform today. Or, at least, as fast as we're capable of achieving relatively economically, (so far...).

 

Thanks for the additional details @tilleroftheearth and @Starlight5 !

Just to clear up my understanding of what OP actually does, is the following example correct?

If I have a new 10 MB drive with two 3 MB files each, and need to update one of them, will this mean I should ideally have at least 3 MB OP space so that it can write the update file in the new space and mark the old one for deletion until TRIM happens? What if I need to make an update to that 3 MB file again (and only have 1 MB OP space remaining), will this be when the "slowness" occurs by having to hold the new updated file in RAM until it goes in and physically deleted the original that was already replaced and marked for delete?

 

First off, if you have a 10MB SSD - throw it out.

Secondly, if you OP only enough to cover a single edit to a single file that is user initiated (vs. an O/S initiated storage request), you'll be in for a very rough time with SSD's.

To make your request relevant to 2016... when I update** my Outlook PST file (~20GB-25GB, depending on the time of day) on a system that has a 1TB (nominal) SSD OP'd by 33% (650GB useable capacity and ~350GB 'spare'), I notice a distinct slowing down of the platform as a whole, particularly near the end of the PST process. And that is in a 'light' workload too - no RAW photo editing, no LR usage, just email/Outlook, IE with a dozen tabs or so, file explorer and sometimes my accounting program running, in addition to opening and viewing (no editing) PDF files as necessary...

So, with a file that is 14x smaller than the size of the OP 'partition', the platform takes a performance hit for me... (I think this answers your question).

See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_amplification


The read, erase, modify, write dance that is needed by current SSD's (come on Optane! Where are you... ), not only needs disproportionally more capacity than the size of the file that is updated... it also has to be recognized that the O/S is doing these kinds of requests from the storage system too.

See:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2829/6


Note also that each step of the read, erase, modify and write dance degrades an SSD's nand cells (yeah; even a mere 'read' does that...). It is simply cheaper today to simply OP as much as you can afford, to get as close to the (sustained, over time) performance promised, with no/little hit to reliability or dependability too.

Rather than have a few GB's more capacity which will simply make the drive fail faster (either fail in the performance it is giving up, or because you'll burn through the nand cycles exponentially faster, depending on your workflows/workloads).

To me, more capacity isn't worth it (it never has been). Even with HDD's, I short stroked them for performance and the loss of capacity? Never missed it a bit.

(If you want capacity, reliability/redundancy and speed, one word; NAS).

 

Using multiple SSDs, I presume?

John

 

If $$$$$$$$$$$ was no issue, sure. But multiple HDD's in the right system provide a lot of oomph too for much cheaper (if mostly sequential throughput and not I/O is the goal).

 

I wish! Currently copying over data to and setting up a DS1515+ - I'd probably be done by now if I could afford to fill it with SSDs...