Intel CPU Upgrade : Engineering Sample?

I am looking at upgrading my laptop (GX640) from the stock i5-430m to a i7 720qm, but I saw a few i7-820qm's for the same price as the 720.

The 820qm's were all engineering samples. Should I be worried about getting one? Is it advised?

 

No, you shouldn't be worried. I advise it. Plenty of people on this forum cry about them and tell people to stay away, but then there are tons of others who have actually bought them and have them working great. It is definitely a great way to cheaply get good processors.

 

have you actually used/tested one?

 

To the Op, in other words if you want to play the odds of being one of the plenty or one of the tons, it's your choice.

Buyer beware once you buy one you own it, if it works good than great you save money on a nice CPU, if you get a bad one, hopefully your seller will work with you to correct the problem.

Edit: Here is a NBR member that has an 840qm for sale, not quite as cheap as an ES but you at least know what your getting

http://forum.notebookreview.com/com...genuine-i7-840qm-128gb-kingston-gen2-ssd.html

 

Yes, and my computer exploded 3 days later. I was lucky to survive.

But buying an ES, OEM, or second-hand retail cpu is the exact same way. There is no manufacturer warranty on any of those. But if it works the first time, it is almost guaranteed to last forever though. Also ebay is heavily stacked in favor of the buyer these days. If it doesn't work for you, you're covered.

 

Okay then, before I go throwing out my next paycheck, the one I'm looking at is the "Intel Core i7 820QM CPU 1.73G 8M Q1TN". Any advice on it?

Is the Q1TN Stepping compatible with my MSI GX640?

 

Steppings have no impact on compatibility. The CPU model number is what determines compatibility with your laptop.

 

I've had 4 ES cpus and never any problems.

 

Alright, I guess I was just worrying over the following quote that the seller posted on the listing :

 

Okay, I took the plunge and ordered one of the Engineering Samples off of eBay. I should have it mid - late next week or early next, next week.

I will make sure to gloat, or rage when I get it

Expect performance comparisons between the i7-820qm and the i5-430m (with 4 and 8 GB setups) on the MSI GX640-098US.

Can anyone recommend programs to do benchmarks on?

 

actually looking forward to your testing and story. I have an MSI on the way, and was looking for a cheap way to upgrade the CPU to the "highest" possible upgrade to "futureproof" -no term has ever been such a misnomer- the notebook for as long as I can. (as I'm all about the RTS genre, and not so much a FPS guy anymore. That's what shooting 11 year olds on consoles are for. Duh!)

Anyway, just looking forward to hearing if the ES plays nicely with your MSI

 

I am in a similar situation: I have an MSI GX740 with an i7-720QM, I am waiting for an i7-920XM (QS) to arrive next week. I will post benchmarks and comparisons here.

 

ok so you havent tried one, thought so.


to the OP:

there have been reports by some sager users on throttling issues with the 920xm es'es. i havent heard of any complaints with the 820qm es'es in these boards though.
have seen posts of people trying out the 940xm es'es and their assessment is that it doesnt suffer from the throttling of the 920xm es.
could be luck of the draw, but maybe the the 2nd gen mobile core i quads es'es maybe better than the first gen ones.

 

Sorry to throw more gas on the fire here, but that is not a final ES stepping, so I would be more hesitant. Final steppings are what you want if you get ES.

 

Yeah he's right, final ES stepping is in most case = to OEM, however anything less than final ES and you're risking an unstable CPU because Intel works out bugs and problems until the final stepping.
However I advocate for ES CPUs, they are usually better overclockers surprisingly than their OEM counterpart. I've personally experienced it myself with OEM QX9300 vs ES/QS QX9300 where it would take a lot more voltage for the OEM to be stable at the ES/QS clocks.

I've been through dozens of ES Intel Extreme CPUs and not a single one has failed me or my customers. But make sure that when reading those auctions written in amazing English that you're not getting an old stepping ES.

However if you're gonna press the trigger right now, jump on this deal:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Intel-i7-820QM-...eat-/220677657797?pt=CPUs&hash=item336169d4c5
The guy is in the US and supposedly pulled it out of an Alienware M15X so it's OEM, quality should be guaranteed in that case.

Otherwise, get the CPU later from this guy:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Intel-Core-...333-/250700713346?pt=CPUs&hash=item3a5eed4d82

He's a well reputed seller, you can negotiate prices with him and he ships very quickly.

EDIT: oh i'm sorry, I skipped an important post I guess, I didn't see you had ordered already. It'll probably turn out ok, I've had 1 X9000 CPU a few years ago that wasn't the latest ES version and it worked fine.

 

That doesn't matter.

 

I've never tried hitting myself in the head with a hammer. Does that make me unqualified to say that it would be a bad idea?

 

I am also eagerly awaiting Dspr's outcome. I seriously want one of these myself. Thanks for having the balls to try one man. Hope it turns out well.

 

if you do a little research you will know that using es cpu's isnt as equivocal as 'hitting yourself on the head'.

es cpu's were actually very good for the c2d and c2q series of cpu's.
there is debate whether they are as stable in the core i quads. like i said there are posts pointing to throttling issues with the 1st gen xm es'es. im not sure about the 1st gen qm's.
im actually contemplating getting a 940xm es from shirleyfu as initial reviews show that they do not suffer from throttling at low temps.

 

Yeah my i7-940XM is the stepping Shirleyfu currently sells and it works very well.

 

My 920XM has arrived. Instead of Q3B8 QS I got SLBLW OEM . All for $380. Shirleyfu ROX!

 

WOW nice purchase.

 

wow thats a tremendous deal!
congrats man.

 

Heh, sure hope I get as lucky

 

Nice deal Marecki...can you post your temps after you install it. Are you selling the 720qm? I'm assuming that's what you had before

 

Well in my wait, I decided to give Svet from MSI HQ Forums a go and try to get my Fn + Ctrl keys swapped.

It works like a charm! I actually love being able to use one hand to put my pc to sleep using the Fn+F12 key combo without pressing 5 other keys with my palm or fingers....

For those who care, all he needs is a $3 EU donation and I got the response within a matter of hours (less than 6 hours).

 

Dspr was that a custom BIOS that swapped the keys?

 

Yes, Svet sends you a modified bios for your GX640.

 

to op u shud've got the final QS, reason being first gen es cpu's dnt usually come with temperature sensors and more unstable. This is why i would never buy a es unless it was a huge bargain.

 

Pleased you got the QS, but I have a particular beef with sellers selling something that they have no right to sell. There is a reason that ES are not allowed in the "for sale" section of NRB.

I work very closely with Intel and get access to a lot of very early silicon and would never, ever consider selling or even giving an ES or QS, it is just immoral IMHO.

An ES CPU is still the property of Intel and which Intel expressly prohibits from being sold or bartered and in buying it you would be party to theft.

Here's the T&C's that a party evaluating (not buying) an ES product signs up to, just in case there is any doubt here ( bolding mine):-

OWNERSHIP. All right, title and interest in the intellectual property embodied in the Pre-Release Product, Pre-Release Software and accompanying materials, if any, are owned by Intel or its suppliers and licensors and may be protected by copyright, trademark, patent and trade secret law and international treaties. Any rights, express or implied, in the intellectual property embodied in the foregoing, other than those specified in this Agreement, are reserved by Intel and its suppliers and licensors. Nothing in this Agreement shall constitute a license of all or any part of the Pre-Release Product or of any right to sell, make, or have made the Pre-Release Product. You will keep the Pre-Release Product free of liens, attachments, and other encumbrances. You agree not to remove any proprietary notices and/or any labels from the Pre-Release Product and accompanying materials, if any (including but not limited to the engineering sample label), without prior written approval by Intel.

RESTRICTION ON MOVEMENT. You shall not lease, sublease, sell, rent, assign, or otherwise transfer, distribute or dispose of the Pre-Release Product and any accompanying materials. You shall not remove, move, or relocate the Pre-Release Product, including any accompanying material, from its "Ship To Location" without prior written approval from Intel.

 

If Intel had a HUGE problem with people selling ES and QS CPU's, they'd have shut down shirley's(and lots of other sellers), long ago.

With all the people selling them, I don't think Intel cares too much.

 

wondering how they get those ES since many years and why Intel doesn't do anything
does Intel has copyright in China?
china is a member of WIPO and the Paris convention

 

Formally, yes, but try to actually enforce these on China... You will be met with, well, *lack of enthusiasm*.

 

and it's not going to be better soon with the trade war between USA and China

 

Yet Intel continues to ship large quantities of ES processors to the far east and doesn't lift a finger to stop their sale on ebay.

 

usually a company has to pay to destroy quality samples

 

It may not be worth their time to stop it.

Let's pretend you own a store. Every week, thieves steal $500 of goods from you, which costs you $26,000 / yr in losses. You could hire a security guard for $50,000/yr to stop this from happening. So, sometimes it's just easier to let people steal.

 

Or you could spend $50,000 once and buy better locks, camera's, a fence, etc.

 

maybe but in that case, Intel is not supposed to sell those ES so it doesn't lost money here except maybe by the fact that people who buy ES won't buy OEM but it's not even sure because a european study has shown that people who illegally download music are the same people who buy the most music legally
so I wouldn't be surprised if a study shown that people who buy ES are the same people who buy the most OEM as well
it could make sense as people who get an ES are probably early adopters or early majority members due to the complexity of the installation
(I'm not in any side just trying to get an idea here)

 

Not always, sometimes I have had to return, sometime destory and certify, most times nothing...

 

It is funny, although my CPU is marked as "i7-920XM SLBLW" and looks identically to an OEM CPU, CPU-Z says it's an ES CPU and HWiNFO32 identifies the processor's QDF as "Q3B8 (QS)". This can mean a number of things:
1. Chinese remark ES and QS CPUs to look exactly like OEM.
2. The Q3B8 chips are actually so good, that Intel is making OEM CPUs using these chips.
This way or another, I am extremely happy with my purchase. Performance is roughly 20-30% higher than i7-720QM. Temps rose by around 8*C in IntelBurnTest, here's screenshot:



Here is HWiNFO32 and CPU-Z screenshot:



Here is 3DMark06 screenshot:



3DMark Vantage:

 

have you ran the software throttlestop 2.85 for working with the multipliers and tdp/tdc to really unlock the CPU. I have an Es chip as well and love it very much and have clocked it as high as 3.7ghz and others have hit over 4.0ghz

http://forum.notebookreview.com/6773901-post6.html

 

My past QX9300 had the OEM stepping written on it (SLB5J) and still showed as ES under CPU-z as well.

 

All it would take is for Intel to contact Ebay for Ebay to put an end to ES sales.

 

Wouldn't work, I know a few sellers and always work deals outside of eBay with them. eBay putting an end to ES sales would only be shooting down the ES open market, people wanting them would get them directly from sellers.

 

I really doubt many ES cpus would be sold if there were no more ES cpu listings on ebay. On top of that there would still be no reason for Intel not to tell Ebay to stop it.

 

Coffee breaks and doughnut runs are more important than sending one single email to eBay asking them to stop people from selling ES CPU's no?

 

I disagree. They would still be sold all over the place as long as sellers did it discretely. Which some of them already do.

 

But then you would only have people buying them who were looking for them in the first place, and there would be others who were looking for them who wouldn't be able to find them anyway or who wouldn't go through the trouble or risk of buying through another route. There is no way you can tell me that not having ES cpus on ebay wouldn't make a dent.

But the whole reason we are talking about this is that it is supposed that Intel doesn't tell Ebay to end ES cpu sales is because Intel knows it wouldn't stop or reduce such sales. That is really stupid since it would reduce sales, and even if it doesn't in the long run, it would be stupid not to send a simple email or call them on the phone. Ebay takes this stuff very seriously. The fact that Intel hasn't contacted anyone or made any announcements regarding the issue of reselling ES cpus, and the fact that resellers in China are continually able to acquire them leads me to believe that Intel probably doesn't care very much about it either way.

 

Yes and no. People would ask other members via PMs where they got their ES and it would be that easy for them to get their own. The truth is, most people who buy engineering samples are performance users and enthusiasts who actually assemble/modify their laptops, and where do you find such people? On forums such as this one.

And yes, Intel doesn't seem to care much about all this. ES sales don't really hurt their revenue and as long as the cost of shutting down all the ES resellers (which involves investigating etc) is higher than their loss due to ES sales, they're not gonna do anything about it.
I don't really know how Intel deals with ES in the first place though. Their CPUs are manufactured in TSMC so their might be leaks there already. Then CPUs are distributed to a bunch of OEMs, ODMs etc and since I doubt that Intel asks to collect them back or for proof of destruction etc, they remain in the hands of those people who then give them at a price to resellers.