Intel Core i9-9900k 8c/16t, i7-9700K 8c/8t, i7-9600k 6c/6t 2nd Gen Coffee Lake CPU's + Z390

I wrote a long explanation of AMD 7nm rumors, etc., in OCN this morning. I will copy it over to the AMD vs Intel thread in a little and try to tag you. I also have older analyses on Intel's problems in that thread. Damn near need a thread just to clearly layout Intel's problems alone. This all goes with my suspicion Intel will have a couple bad years, with a return around 2021 or so with 7nm EUV, comparable to other fabs 5nm/3nm designs. 10nm will be a black mark on Intel. Only reason it matters this time versus, say, Broadwell is that AMD has competitive offerings.

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BTW, that post is up if anyone cares to read it:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...99-xeon-vs-epyc.805695/page-254#post-10802912

If you care for citations, I can provide them upon request.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...md-pain-as-report-touts-10-nanometer-strides?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/intel-stock-surges-above-50-day-average-as-amd-plummets-2018-10-02

Intel fixing 10nm, and 9700K and 9900K about to launch. After a period of some ****ty news for Intel, it seems they are righting the ship and this is great for the industry. Looking forward to my 9900K and 5+Ghz clockspeeds on 16 threads.

 

Yield is yield, says nothing about the transistors or implementation. That means this is different from the fact Intel gutted a key scalar, then applied mitigations. Evidently, gutting that helped get production righted, but it doesn't speak to performance. The only data we have is from Intel of March 2017 which clearly stated both 10nm and 10nm+ perform less than 14nm++ and that currently what is coming is less dense than what was planned.

I give kudos for trying to come up to a couple months earlier. Doesn't change the equation. Unless the $1B in 14nm can cheaply be converted to do 10nm, you have excess capacity at the fab that needs filled. You still have Intel saying 14nm++ is a better node. And you still have the potential performance analysis previously provided pushing Intel to find answers for investors. Barclay's having Intel at a sell recommendation is a lot worse than the other downgrading AMD by less.

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who really cares about all that unless it will seriously delay the consumer market. there has been rumor, but nothing serious so far otherwise we would hear much more about it. that 1B$ could very well be for upcoming refreshes because 10nm is so late.

we'll be happy putting a 9900k 5ghz into a laptop. when amd comes with zen 2 7nm, hope we'll see a 12/16 cores at 4.5ghz then it'll be worth getting it, if it comes in laptop.

 

What the hell are you talking about? Much of what was said isn't rumor.

Description of process from conferences end of 2017 and Feb. 2018:
https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/525/...ntels-10nm-switching-to-cobalt-interconnects/

Articles on problems:
https://www.extremetech.com/computi...ken-10nm-into-2019-hires-jim-keller-to-fix-it
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/david-schor-intel-10nm-in-big-problems.2544009/
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/i...and-moves-volume-production-towards-2019.html
https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/f293/intel-10nm-process-problems-my-thoughts-subject-10535.html
https://www.semiaccurate.com/2018/08/02/intel-guts-10nm-to-get-it-out-the-door/
https://wccftech.com/analysis-about-intels-10nm-process/
https://segmentnext.com/2018/08/07/intel-14nm-amd-12nm/
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/intel-says-not-to-expect-mainstream-10nm-chips-until-2h19/

Wanted to break this one out since newest and has the best line of all:
https://www.extremetech.com/computi...-10nm-hardware-in-market-faster-than-expected
"As the graph above shows, AMD’s stock price has gotten hammered at the same time Intel’s has soared, but it’s not clear either shift is really warranted. Intel putting 10nm into production isn’t going to dramatically transform the CPU industry, and AMD competing against Intel’s 10nm a few quarters earlier than expected shouldn’t be a dramatic or particular problem for Ryzen 2, either."

As to the $1B, it isn't speculation, it is a fact:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1341...4nm-demand-prioritizing-highend-core-and-xeon

They are expanding capacity for 14nm. Whether or not it could be adapted for 10nm is speculation. Since you don't want rumors, let us say that it cannot. Then, logically, that means you expanded capacity on 14nm that you never anticipated needing and as you move production to 10nm, then you will have extra capacity at 14nm from the additional injection of capital that is going to sit idle if you cannot find a way to fill capacity. It is pretty simple business principles at play there. How do you not get how that effects profitability when that is the reason that we have GF now and we just saw IBM PAY GF to take their foundry business a couple years back. But, if you want to think Intel is impervious to market principles and common sense, who am I to argue?

The $1B isn't just for refreshes, it is 14nm capacity generally. By delaying 10nm, but keeping the schedule to pull in components made on older nodes, like chipsets made on 22nm, the 14nm capacity they had could not handle the current processor supply chain, the chipsets, the Intel radios and wifi components and LAN chips, the new refreshed chips, etc. CPU production was supposed to already be moved to the 10nm fabs. It wasn't. So any expansion of 14nm capacity means that after the move to 10nm occurs, if you cannot switch that excess capacity to 10nm, you are stuck with a bad situation on money leaking from the excess capacity on the older node. Fabs sitting empty bleeds lots of cash.

But, go right ahead buying an inflated cost 9900K, which may see prices in the $500-600 range at release due to shortages, etc. If current pricing rumors are right, so not worth it IMO. Also feel free to ignore the information out there that OEMs and ODMs are annoyed at Intel at the moment, etc. But, just be aware of the situation on the ground. If you are not and follow blindly, you are falling for the efficient market fallacy, that information presented to the market is compounded into the cost of the stock fairly quickly after that information has reached investors. We do not have efficient markets, we have emotional, irrational markets. Otherwise, you would have seen the prevention of the 2008 credit crisis, etc. The information is there. But markets can be information insensitive until shock. That is also why Intel received little damage when the Spectre and Meltdown vulnerabilities were published, including the release window of the 8700K suggesting dumping inventory after knowledge of the vulnerability mixed with insider trading by BK.

 

IDK if anyone has mentioned this, but buying $1B USD of new 14nm production hardware isn't going to go into service overnight.

It takes time to order, build, deliver and install - then test run the new production hardware, train new operators, and come up to full yield production speed.

If Intel is starting that $1B USD 14nm production hardware procurement right now, I'd expect it to begin to come online sometime in 1Q19.

 

i think u need to calm down dude. spending extra 1B now would be too late for anything, its most likely for refreshes anyway.

 

I don't know if it was brought up here, but Compal brought that up. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-14nm-cpu-shortage-compal,37858.html

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Intel News‏ Verified account @intelnews
10:52 AM - 6 Oct 2018
There has never been a better time to own a desktop PC! Tune into our livestream on October 8 at 10 am EST: https://intel.ly/2O79cok
https://twitter.com/intelnews/status/1048632180845379585?s=09

Learn about Intel’s Latest PC Developments
https://newsroom.intel.com/articles/learn-about-intels-latest-pc-developments/

"Every PC user is unique, with a wide variety of performance needs and requirements to ensure their success.

Tune in at 10 a.m. EDT (7 a.m. PDT) on Monday, Oct. 8, on the Intel Newsroom to learn more about the latest PC performance developments from Intel.
Tags: 2018 Intel Desktop Launch Event "

Watch Intel's Fall Desktop Launch Event Here
by Paul Alcorn October 6, 2018 at 11:02 AM
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/watch-intel-desktop-launch-event,37897.html

"According to a tweet from Intel's official account, the company will host a live-streamed Fall Desktop Launch Event on October 8, 2018.

We'll cover the festivities at the as-yet-undisclosed location, but you can join us: Intel will livestream the event at 10:00 am EST on Monday.

We've been tracking a massive upswing in reports on the Core i9-9900K and the rest of an obviously-pending lineup of Intel's 9th Generation processors. We've also covered a rising crescendo of Z390 motherboard leaks, unintentional or otherwise, over the last few days.

All this means it's pretty obvious what's being announced Monday, but Intel won't share details until the event.

Pull up a seat and watch the livestream, then look for our coverage on these pages. "

 

Intel 9th generation processor launch live blog: Intel's Desktop Launch Event 2018 as it happens
We're live from Intel's 9th generation processor launch event.
By Matt Hanson 3 minutes ago Processors
https://www.techradar.com/news/inte...ntels-desktop-launch-event-2018-as-it-happens

"10:31 - October 19 will be when the CPUs are available. There'll be loads of pre-built desktop PCs from Intel's partners. They will be giving away nine VIP esports tickets as well. If you like esports, check out Intel's Core i9 website on November 5."

10:43 - On to prices now:

• Intel Core i9-9900K $488
• Intel Core i7-9700K $374
• Intel Core i5-8600K $262

Intel Announces 9th Generation Core CPUs, Eight-Core Core i9-9900K
by Paul Alcorn October 8, 2018 at 8:10 AM
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-9th-generation-coffee-lake-refresh,37898.html

Intel Introduces 28-Core Unlocked Xeon W-3175X
by Andrew E. Freedman October 8, 2018 at 7:45 AM
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-xeon-w-3175x-cpu-specs,37899.html

Strangely enough, Intel won't allow playback of the LiveStream. The page / video frame to play is there but it only says it Ended...

Intel's Youtube channels don't have the presentation up yet either...

Intel’s Fall Desktop Launch Event (Livestream)
https://newsroom.intel.com/news/intels-fall-desktop-launch-event-livestream/

"Starting at 10 a.m. EDT/7 a.m. PDT Monday, Oct. 8, Intel will kick off its Fall Desktop Launch Event in New York City.

You are invited to join our livestream as Intel’s Anand Srivatsa, vice president and general manager in the Client Computing Group, delivers the keynote and invites special guests on stage. Tune in and learn about Intel’s next line of desktop processors for gaming, content creation and high-end PCs."


9th Gen Intel Core i9-9900K Processor
Intel Newsroom
Published on Oct 8, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

The next evolution of gaming is here. Intel introduced the 9th Gen Intel Core i9-9900K -- the world’s best gaming processor -- on Oct. 8, 2018. Experience the power to push it to the next level. Unleash the power to amaze. (Credit: Intel Corporation)

Learn more about the 9th Gen Intel Core i9-9900K processor: https://newsroom.intel.com/news-rel...ng-processor-new-9th-gen-intel-core-i9-9900k/

9th Gen Intel Core i9-9900K: The World’s Best Gaming Processor
Intel Newsroom
Published on Oct 8, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

Intel introduced the 9th Gen Intel Core i9-9900K on Oct. 8, 2018. The Intel Core i9 processor delivers the performance gamers demand to game, stream, record. Up to 5Ghz, 8 cores, 16 threads. Performance unleashed.

Learn more about the 9th Gen Intel Core i9-9900K processor: https://newsroom.intel.com/news-rel...ng-processor-new-9th-gen-intel-core-i9-9900k/

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16819117957

Go home Newegg you're drunk! My B&H order sticks. Holy hell they are gouging hard.

 

Wow, $579.99 and "Limit 1 Per Customer"!

Now sold out of pre-order, Notify only...

 

B&H has it for $529.99:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1435917-REG/intel_bx80684i99900k_core_i9_9900k_3_6_ghz.html

Core i7-9700K $399.99:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...0684i79700k_core_i7_9700k_3_6_ghz.html?sts=pi

Charles

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005404P9I

Amazon $529.

Seems Newegg has lost their ****. And yet it sold out in a few minutes. Wow.

 

I love these videos. Even though I'm preordered this presentation was so cringey.

 

So it's out now? I saw some boutique pc shops already offering even in their laptops. https://www.originpc.com/landing/2018/intel-core-9th-gen/

 

Silicon Lottery...
"We don't offer pre-orders. We'll provide an ETA of when we'll be launching as soon as we can."
"The current ETA for our launch is looking like October 26th." - www.siliconlottery.com
https://www.overclock.net/forum/18068-silicon-lottery/1705980-coffee-lake-r-binning-3.html
https://siliconlottery.com/collections/coffeelake-r

 

Just wait for the preorders to run out and the resellers on those platforms to list. Process will look like neweggs. Glad you got your order in at the lower gouged price.

I already explained in the other thread what I thought of the price/value proposition. But better at that price than what is coming!

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

So performance NDA is still in effect until Oct 19th, so only previews today...

LIVE: Level1Techs Unboxing Z390 Motherboards!
Level1Techs
Started streaming 9 minutes ago

Spoiler: Click to See Video

More info about the New Motherboards:

1. https://newsroom.intel.com/news-rel...ng-processor-new-9th-gen-intel-core-i9-9900k/
2. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-z390-motherboards,37896.html
3. https://www.pscp.tv/w/1eaKbVNgXRnKX
4. https://www.anandtech.com/show/13407/intel-z390-motherboard-overview-every-motherboard-analyzed

Intel Z390 Preview - Leo gets ALL the boards!
KitGuruTech
Published on Oct 8, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

As Intel's NDA breaks, we are now allowed to show you the upcoming boards we are going to review from ASUS, MSI and GIGABYTE. Should these be on your shortlist for a new system build? Until we are allowed to show you benchmarks and more indepth analysis, we hope this is a good starting point to make a solid buying decision.

00:15 Introduction and chat about the processors
06:01 ASRock Z390 Pro4 Motherboard
07:10 ASRock Z390 Taichi Motherboard
08:15 ASUS ROG Strix Z390-E Gaming
09:00 ASUS ROG Strix Z390-I Gaming
09:58 ASUS ROG Maximus XI Hero (wifi)
11:00 ASUS ROG Maximus XI Formula
12:50 MSI MEG Z390 ACE
14:32 Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master

LEO'S NOTES:

Has Intel hit the end of the line with desktop model codes?
Intel Z390 chipset adds 6x USB 3.1 Gen.2 ports and Wireless-AC CNVi which requires a companion RF module such as Intel Wireless-AC 9560, 9462 or 9461 plus antennae
https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www...6155/network-and-i-o/wireless-networking.html

Z390 Motherboards Released, But Where's Our 9900K & 9700K Testing?
Hardware Unboxed
Published on Oct 8, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

z390 Taichi Ultimate pREVIEW - Can it HANDLE a Particular CPU?
Tech YES City
Published on Oct 8, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

Z390 from Intel has launched, and the motherboard manufacturers have come prepared, this time with ASRock introducing their flagship Taichi Ultimate Board, with a 12 phase VRM, solid onboard audio, 10Gbps NIC and more connectivity than you could wish for. This board packs some serious features.

Asus ROG Maximus XI Gene Preview
OC3D TV
Published on Oct 8, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/asus_rog_z390_maximus_xi_gene_preview/1

Asus ROG Maximus XI Extreme Preview
OC3D TV
Published on Oct 8, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/asus_rog_z390_maximus_xi_extreme_preview/1

MSI MEG Z390 ACE Preview
OC3D TV
Published on Oct 8, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/msi_z390_meg_ace_preview/1

Asus ROG Strix Z390i ITX Preview
OC3D TV
Published on Oct 8, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/asus_rog_z390-i_strix_itx_preview/1

 

I got it at $499 plus taxes now with free 2 day shipping from Amazon. I also grabbed a Z390 Maximus board from Newegg for delivery tomorrow. Have a buyer lined up for my Z370-E. Finally I can use my full 4400Mhz ram and I'll be fully ready for heavy overclocks on that 8 core beast.

 

Check out the Z390 MB reviews from OC3D, GN on Giga bios being crap, even with the revisions, and Buildzoids examination of the VRM on the gigabyte lineup (hint: He REALLY likes what they changed, giving actual 12 phase boards, granted with doubling, but the lower cost ones having current balancing).

 

Intel talks 9th Gen & 'The worlds best gaming CPU' | The Full Nerd SE NY
PCWorld
Published on Oct 8, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

Join The Full Nerd gang as they talk about the latest PC hardware topics. Today's show is a special edition episode from the Intel event in New York announcing the new 9th Gen CPUs. Gordon is joined by Anand Srivatsa (VP & SM Desktop, Systems & Channel Group at Intel) who talks about the 'the world's best gaming CPU.'
Read the full article at PCWorld.com: https://www.pcworld.com/article/331...on-core-chips-core-i9-and-x-series-parts.html

Are you talking about this BIOS revamp?

Gigabyte's Disappointing Z390 BIOS "Overhaul"
Gamers Nexus
Published on Oct 8, 2018
Gigabyte has needed a new BIOS for a long time, and it looks like they tried to revamp UEFI for Z390. Sort of.

Spoiler: Click to See Video

Buildzoid rambles about Gigabyte's Z390 lineup // These are prepared
Actually Hardcore Overclocking
Published on Oct 6, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/9mgs1z/intel_core_i99900k_overclocked_to_69ghz_on_all/

5.3Ghz on all cores on a 9900K. Gimme my beast now!

 

That was on water cooling and I didn't see how meek or beastly the cooling was, or if a golden sample. Still, impressive frequency even if that winds up as a top 20% chip.

Those are the videos. I haven't watched the GN one, but watched Buildzoid's vid. I saw the higher prices on Z390 boards, but for the better VRM, I'd pay it. Not saying my X399 VRM is bad, using a true 8-phase on the Asrock, same as the Asus, but happy to see that change coming to mainstream for $200-300 range of boards, potentially.

 

Absolutely, the VRM on this Asus board looks great. I am genuinely curious if I can get an extra 100Mhz or so out of my 8700K since I've been able to get it to boot at 5.4Ghz with this crappy-ish Z370-E. Since I'll have the board for about a week and a half before my chip arrives I may as well screw around with my 8700K overclocks.

 

So, Intel still lying about their pcie count in marketing materials.

 

Well, "when Intel's lips are moving..."

What's the PCIE lane split between CPU and PCH? - 40 total => 16 to CPU + 24 to PCH. How is Intel stretching the truth this time?

Check out that PCWorld Interview video if you want to hear some Intel marketing dodge and spin, and check out the youtube comments for the video, plenty of eye's rolling.

MarcasswellbMD 3 hours ago (edited)
"The Shilliest Video I ever seen.. It's 14NM.. They are recycling old tech and calling it New... SMH... Bottom Line Garbage... There were no tough questions, about their processors and failed 10 NM Process at all.. Intel's going to push the same 14 NM tech down everyones' throats with a higher core count and people are going to get excited about it, LMAO... And I bet that I9 isn't any better than the 8700K at all in gaming, JUST ANOTHER WASTE OF MONEY!!!"

Kyamil Nasuf 4 hours ago
"hey, kinda shady on the TIM that guy, huh? also, on the box. also, about memory and ryzen. i mean, i'm sure it is the best gaming CPU but how much does it cost, though?"

Jaggsta 2 hours ago
"almost double ryzen 2700x price"

L Monty 38 minutes ago
"Re: TIM. He did say that "we re-commited to the enthusiast products" and in another portion "it's something we are catching up on". Admissions that they dropped the ball somewhere along the way. But the way he said it was reaaally roundabout and made to sound positive. He's pretty good at it, as corporate bosses are always."

resync5000 4 hours ago
"what a load of **** he talks about using TIM vs solder...."

9900k benchmarking controversy? 28-core Xeon too cheap?
PCWorld
Published on Oct 8, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

Paul and Kyle join Gordon for a drink at the Intel event and go over the first Core i9 9900K benchmarks. Then they try to guess how much the 28-core Xeon W-3175X will cost. Warning: Drinks were consumed.

Core i9 9900K vs Ryzen 7 2700X: Here's what Gamers Nexus picks
PCWorld
Published on Oct 8, 2018
Gordon and Steve debate which CPU is better: Intel's Core i9 9900K or AMD's Ryzen 7 2700X.

Spoiler: Click to See Video

 

Remember, never Pre-Order based on vendor propaganda, always wait for independent reviewers benchmark results, better yet to wait for new owners to report the results they are getting before deciding to order.

Especially when Intel is involved in paid third party propaganda skewed to induce you to buy now.

Intel's New Low: Commissioning Misleading Core i9-9900K Benchmarks
Hardware Unboxed
Published on Oct 8, 2018


Intel's New Low: Commissioning Misleading Core i9-9900K vs RYZEN Benchmarks
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/9mmj17/intels_new_low_commissioning_misleading_core/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/9mmkli/intels_new_low_commissioning_misleading_core/
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/9mmx9c/intels_new_low_commissioning_misleading_core/
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/9mmu11/intels_new_low_commissioning_misleading_core/

 

Beat me to it!

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

That video is hilarious. Trying to watch that GN guy answer a very easy question is like trying to watch him walk and chew bubble gum at the same time and fail miserably. He answers in a nut shell, time is money as a content creator, I need cores and speed which the Intel.. wait no yes time is money but you have to consider the budget so get the AMD Ryzen 2700x. The guy realizes his argument is going to work against him, backtracks and then focuses on budget friendly and never mind about time being money, just buy Ryzen. Never mind the fact that yes time is money, and the small difference in price would eventually be offset by exactly his argument, time is money. This is gold. Shilling at it's finest. I mean I knew this guy was an AMD fanboi (and they send him free review kits which Intel doesn't), but damn this is unedited and unrehearsed proof.

The 9900K is stupid expensive. But in March 2017 AMD launched the 1800X with 8 cores and 16 threads at wait for it, $499. I paid $499.99 from Amazon for my 9900K. Sure prices have come down significantly since then as we have competition on both sides but paying a higher price for a product that is going to be the fastest at everything isn't that ridiculous or unheard of as I just pointed out.

Unfortunately looks like BH Video has jumped on the Newegg band wagon of gouging and is also now charging $579 which is ridiculous. At those prices I think it's getting to the point of not even close to worth it. Go HEDT or TR at that point if you need the cores. Right now I have 2 on preorder. One at $500 and another at $529 from BH before the price hike.

 

https://www.chiphell.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1916382&extra=page=1&filter=lastpost&orderby=lastpost&typeid=220&page=1

9900K 2203CB multi with 5.0Ghz all cores. This ES sample does 5.3Ghz all cores. Also looks like some Z370 boards won't be able to keep up with the power hungry 9900K when pushed hard. Not unexpected which is why I went beefier Z390. I would figure higher end z370 will be fine though.

 

More Spectre protection comes with some of Intel’s new 9th-gen CPUs, but not all
Jon Martindale @jonwhoopty, 10.8.18 - 10:18AM
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/intel-9-series-cpu-spectre/

"Intel’s newly announced 9-series CPUs bring a lot of exciting new features to the table, including higher clock speeds and the promise of greater gaming performance. But arguably one of the most important factors is in security.

These chips are the first generation of new desktop CPUs to come with hardware fixes for the Spectre and Meltdown bugs which emerged in recent years.

In particular, it’s the new K-series of gaming CPUs that are receiving the fix. Those chips come with changes at the hardware level and should be far more secure against the kind of attacks that Spectre and its ilk have brought to light in recent years.

Although they are still based on the same 14nm node that has dominated Intel’s chip designs since 2014, these would be the first ones to come with a fix for these sorts of bugs at the hardware level.

The second set of new 9th-gen chips, the X-series (and Xeon-class chips), don’t have those same security fixes. Because they’re based on the older Skylake-X architecture, Intel is relying solely on software updates to keep them protected against these possible vulnerabilities.

News of the fixes were shared at Intel’s recent desktop press event, where it stated that, “the new desktop processors include protections for the security vulnerabilities commonly referred to as ‘Spectre,’ ‘Meltdown,’ and ‘L1TF.’

These protections include a combination of the hardware design changes we announced earlier this year as well as software and microcode updates.”

The hardware alterations made to the chips protect against Meltdown V3, otherwise known as the rogue data cache load bug. The L1 terminal fault exploit was also shored up with hardware changes. Software and microcode changes protect those same chips against the Spectre V2 branch target injection bug, the Meltdown V3, a rogue system register read, and the variant V4 speculative store bypass flaw.

In the laptop world, Intel has had a similar approach toward making hardware-level fixes. Some, but not all, have implemented hardware protections. Intel has been criticized in the past for the way it has handled these potentially critical flaws and has had a relatively slow move toward patching the vulnerabilities on a hardware level throughout 2018."

See also:

CPU Vulnerabilities, Meltdown and Spectre, Kernel Page Table Isolation Patches, and more
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...atches-and-more.812424/page-109#post-10806890

 

Thanks for that, so my 9900K will have at least SOME hardware level security fixes which should mitigate the performance losses and help protect against future attacks. Nice.

 

https://www.patreon.com/posts/21950120 Yikes if true. But probably true, I mean it's a paid review.

 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

So, Intel turned the 2700X into a quad core, 8 thread CPU to compare to their 8c/8t chip. That is so wrong!

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

The difference is 1800X was released before TR. Intel's 6 core solution was closer to $600 or more. Their 8 core was more and 10 core at $1700. So $500 back then was easier to swallow. Then Intel dropped the new 10 core for $1K that June following release and dropped the process on 6 and 8 core chips. Then TR gave 8 core at around $600, 12 core at $850, and 16 core at $1K. So you cannot compare pricing on original 1800X to now, especially with bad sales numbers on that SKU, and it dropping to around $420 fast.

As to the time equals money comment, I'm giving him a pass, because if you use those four CPU render for game steamer/reupping after, that is niche use. Most don't keep it loaded all the time like true production machines. Puget showed the adobe hardware acceleration was snake oil. And so you are paying a premium for minimal performance gains was the point. The 16%was looking at 2166 on all core Intel 9900K@5GHz in CB15 compared to an average stock score for 2700X of 1850, approximately. For true production machines, you don't overclock them!

But, let's say an overclock gets you 1950 in the 2700X and use 2200 for Intel. The gap is 13%. Considering these are not professionals that need that extra, and consisting Intel's power consumption when overclocked, which you just admitted to needing a new board for, and the added cost of the z390 boards, etc., the costs add up to where, as you mentioned, hedt is an option (which AMD second gen 12 cores are about that price). Starts making value seem hard to swallow from Intel.

None of this takes away from it being the absolute best mainstream chip for fps.

Edit: also, the 1950X TR is $699 right now. So $120 more than Intel and get double the cores!

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

Exclusive: Interview w/ Principled Technologies on Intel Testing (9900K)
Gamers Nexus
Published on Oct 10, 2018
This #news coverage provides an exclusive sit-down interview with Principled Technologies, the company that produced the Intel 9900K benchmarks vs. 2700X.

Spoiler: Details...

Find follow-up interview answers and our thoughts here: https://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/3374-principled-technologies-interview-intel-testing-concerns

Principled Technologies has been the focal point of several content pieces calling into question Intel's newly published competitive benchmarks for the 9900K and 9980XE. These parts are still embargoed for normal media, but Intel permitted a third-party test arm, commissioned for testing, to publish data ahead of media. Most media took issue with this, as it undermines the process and only gives consumers one source of information -- and information which was paid testing, at that. Other issues stemmed from methodological questions, particularly relating to Game Mode on the R7 2700X CPU.

Awesome Hardware #0165-A: Intel 9900K Launch Drama
Paul's Hardware
Streamed live 10 hours ago
Awesome Hardware #0165-A: Intel 9900K Launch Drama
27:05 ON THE PHONE: with Steve from Gamer's Nexus - About Principled Technologies Interview

Spoiler: Click to See Video

Hardware Unboxed - Intel 9900K Dodgy Benchmark Update:
It's even worse than we thought!, Oct 9 at 6:01am
https://www.patreon.com/posts/21950120

Damian Bourke
"Same old tricks from intel except now we have Hardware unboxed and other YouTube channels to show us the truth..."

Wow, newegg has really inflated the price, and it's out of stock - ETA 10/19... $669.99!!!

 

I watched that video, it was interesting to watch. The guy from Principled Technologies was vague in his answers, in as much as he didn't really shed much light on Steve's questions, but he did listen to Steve & it seems to have resulted in some follow up work which Principled Technologies are doing, so they may well end up publishing some new results which might be 'closer to the truth'. We don't know what additional testing they will do, but hopefully at the very least it will be reactivating all CCX's of Ryzen 2700X, because that was major hamstringing of that CPU; Principled Technologies have loosely inferred that they will do some more testing in relation to the Game Mode setting (added as an update to the Gamers Nexus link you included in your post, this one: https://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/3374-principled-technologies-interview-intel-testing-concerns)

Well, what does it matter, we knew the results of their testing were misleading, but if they update their publication with something closer to the truth then it means less people led away from Ryzen 2700X. We all know 9900K will still be the top gaming CPU, but we don't like seeing misleading reviews.

 

Principled Technologies Comments on their Intel Processor Study Techpowerup.com | Today, 18:57

Today, we have seen several reports that suggested Principled Technologies (PT) published misleading information in our recent study comparing Intel's gaming processors to AMD's. We apologize for our delay in responding, but it's been a busy day, and we wanted to be as thorough as possible in addressing inquiries concerning our testing. We'll address specific questions and share more detail on our methodology in a moment, but we first must respond directly to attempts to call our integrity into question.

For almost 16 years, we have tested products for our clients because they trust our integrity. We have worked not just for any one company but for dozens of the leading technology firms, including rivals such as Intel and AMD, Microsoft and Google, Dell and HP, and many others...

 

https://www.extremetech.com/computi...intel-commissioned-against-amd-are-a-flat-lie

PT claim Game Mode on TR4 based on AMD's recommendations, yes, correct. But to then use it for Ryzen as well "for consistency" is not defensible if you know how Game Mode does different things on each and how it negatively affects performance most of the time, and AMD recommends AGAINST using Game Mode for Ryzen: "specifically useful only for TR".

"AMD has said it was a good cooler", which contradicts the simple methodology when testing a CPU in that you give it the best cooling possible to remove that as a confounding variable. Nvidia says a 1060 is a "good GPU" so why did they max out tests with a 1080Ti...? 16Gb is a "good amount of RAM" says almost every guide to building a gaming PC on the internet...?

Contrast with their response re 4x16Gb DR RAM. Yes x299 and TR4 need 4 sticks to use quad channel and fully utilise available bandwidth, here we have the "no limits" methodology instead of the "that's what people use" response to the 2700x cooler and 1080p res questions. As GN Steve said, subtimings can negatively affect Ryzen CPU performance and they weren't controlled for at all.

And this... just SMH...

How is selecting anything OTHER than minimum settings "minimising any GPU based bottleneck". A 720p minimum benchmark would be understandably ridiculous. So, loading up the CPU enough with a reasonable workload at 1080p to show a difference in results somewhat relevant to real world, is not "minimising": it's a value judgement with a different goal.

They have been called out for a misleading pile of BS and have decided to just add to the heap. On some issues they claim "we did it for consistency" and then on others "we did it because that's what's common" and the common ground for when each was just totally coincidentally the methodological choice ends up hobbling the 2700x?

Making it hard for me to buy your product Intel... I'm now considering a semi-boycott of a cheap second hand 8700K instead.

 

What was the release price of 1800X ? He compare with that. Can't compare pricing on original 1800X? Of course he can.

Many around talk about how nice it is that AMD come with a stock cooler (Some people say this is one of the reasons you get a better deal vs. buy Intel who don't offer it - Aka bang for bucks)... I mean it was fair they used it on R 2700X. But yeah, the test is flawed I can see that.

 

i9 9900K Gaming Benchmark LIES! Companies Respond!
Gamer Meld
Published on Oct 10, 2018
What's going on with these i9 benchmarks?? Is it 50% better than the 2700X??Stay tuned...

i9-9900K 'Benchmark' - Why You Should Wait For REAL Reviews....
Tech YES City
Published on Oct 10, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

You always expect companies to show their products in the best of light (Sure Intel i9-9900K)... but when they commissioned a company that decides to do this AND do it at the expense of, quite literally, debilitating the competitor's product (AMD's 2700X), then it's taking things too far...

HWU and GN Take On Intel! RX 680 Polaris AGAIN? and Channel Update 10
The Good Old Gamer
Published on Oct 10, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

Steve from Hardware Unboxed, and Steve from Gamer's Nexus, both shining the light on Principled Technologies Early Access Review of the i9 9900K Sponsored by Intel. Polaris isn't Dead Yet... why though? And I need YOUR feedback on changes to the channel.

Skip Ahead:
HWU and GN Take On Intel: 01:19
DX11 is the Problem: 08:20
Another Polaris... Why?: 12:33
Channel Update: 16:08

 

And AMD closed down +8 percent today. As you see, everything goes up and down

 

If it was a one off innocent "faux pas", I am as accepting and forgiving as the next guy. But, we are talking about Intel, that has made a confident history of lying and deceit to cheat as their firm legacy.

Intel won't rely on their good work - when it happens - Intel unapologetically cut's in line and fart's in the face of everyone.

So I am not willing to see you or anyone else try to spin this as Intel making some innocent accidental dumb dumb - ooops, we didn't know?!! mistake.

Intel's "playbook" move once again stretches credulity with it's "accidentally skewed positive benchmark" - intentionally done to influence those in media and the general public that will think "it must be true".

The retraction will be spun as well, minimizing any negative media coverage, successfully putting the "50% faster" lie as truth in the minds of many.

The Intel phase-change cooled "5ghz" 28 core CPU outright deception with full media push - ending with a 4.1ghz delivery is another "accidental oops we forgot to mention" / "how could we know?" kind of crap that just adds to the pile of cow dung Intel has been building for decades.

Intel doesn't care if they deceive directly or indirectly, as long as their cheats work, and Intel has a long history of misdeeds from which to pick effective ploy's.

No, there isn't any form of retraction that completely removes the effects of the initial lies, cheats, and deceptions.

That is exactly what Intel counts on. Good people that don't think as the firmly evil Intel breezily considers, and good folk that can't comprehend Intel would strategize the pro's and con's of being a "lying cheat" for their benefit.

Intel knows that their initial lies buy them positive attention - coupled with a delay in any retraction from the media - and the small footprint of the resulting minimal media coverage of the truth - isn't enough to damage the effect of their lies.

No, you don't get to sneak this gem in on the end of the spin of an insincere apology for Intel lying, but it is a good example how Intel's bad behavior negatively motivates others to become complicit in Intel's bad deeds.

Stop aggrandizing liars and cheats as would be hero's, Evil greedy lying cheater's are indeed the bad guys - not good guys misunderstood.

If you are tired of the Evil Greedy Lying Cheaters being in power, stop giving them the means to remain there, stop giving them your money and support.

Now is a good time to actively recognize Intel as they are, and not as you wish they would be, stop supporting Intel's bad behavior, stop giving Intel money.

Intel's History of Con-trived Benchmarks
AdoredTV
Published on Oct 10, 2018
Unprincipled Benchmarketing 101.

Spoiler: Click to See Video

" Principled Technologies Benchmark Disclosure:

Intel is a sponsor and member of the BenchmarkXPRT* Development Community, and was the major developer of the XPRT* family of benchmarks.

Principled Technologies is the publisher of the XPRT* family of benchmarks.

You should consult other information and performance tests to assist you in fully evaluating your contemplated purchases."

That quote is from Intel:

Performance Benchmark Test Disclosure
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/benchmarks/benchmark.html

In part, that disclaimer comes from this court order - Intel couldn't even get the required quote correctly stated on Intel's website:


UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BEFORE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION COMMISSIONERS:

Jon Leibowitz, Chairman William E. Kovacic J. Thomas Rosch Edith Ramirez Julie Brill

In the Matter of INTEL CORPORATION, a corporation.
Docket No. 9341
DECISION AND ORDER
https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cases/101102inteldo.pdf

""IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that in Respondent’s activities in or affecting commerce, as “commerce” is defined in the Federal Trade Commission Act, in connection with the marketing and promotion of Relevant Microprocessor Products (including promotion on Respondent’s website, in advertisements or in other promotional material):

A. Whenever Respondent (i) makes a claim comparing the performance of a Mainstream Microprocessor and a Compatible x86 Microprocessor, or (ii) makes any claim that references the performance of a Mainstream Microprocessor on any benchmark, Respondent shall Clearly and Prominently make the following disclosure:

Software and workloads used in performance tests may have been optimized for performance only on Intel microprocessors. Performance tests, such as SYSmark and MobileMark, are measured using specific computer systems, components, software, operations and functions. Any change to any of those factors may cause the results to vary. You should consult other information and performance tests to assist you in fully evaluating your contemplated purchase, including the performance of that product when combined with other products""

 

Well the problem there is that no other information *IS* available: because Intel is insisting all the other information that could be available, is not, under NDA embargo.

While preorders are up and the product is technically on sale to consumers.

 

Maybe.

(I was commenting & giving my thoughts on that video from GCN and what it means from my perspective, I'm not here to start getting into some kind of Intel/AMD politicised discussion with you, my post was not asking for that.)

 

A couple of days after Intel 9th generation release, these are the New Releases in Computer CPU Processors, and the Best Sellers in Computer CPU Processors:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/new-releases/electronics/229189/ref=zg_b_hnr_229189_1

That's a bit odd, the 9900k isn't listed as a New Release in Computer CPU Processors??


https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers...ctronics/229189/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_4_17923671011

AMD Ryzen CPU's are maintaining sales position against the new Intel 9th Generation CPU's. With the 9900k "paper-launch" making it a "no show" on the Amazon charts.


https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i9-9900K-Desktop-Processor-Unlocked/dp/B005404P9I

Better not "chance" adding a 9900k to your Wedding Registry...

6.8GHz Intel i9-9900K XOC w/ Timings & BIOS Settings, Ft. Steponz
Gamers Nexus
Published on Oct 10, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

We talked to extreme overclocker Steponz about the new Intel i9-9900K, where the CPU was running between 6.0 and 6.8GHz under liquid nitrogen.
Thanks to pro overclocker Joe Stepongzi for joining us to help us learn more about XOC settings for the 8th Gen v2 CPUs. You can find one of his scores here: http://hwbot.org/submission/3364500

 

You well know that quality ryzen laptops are few and far between, and absent at the high end.

Monopoly and exclusivity to deny a consumer a viable alternative are also part of capitalism.