Intel Optane 900P SSD

LOL! He's going to need a whole lot of them to make up for how much drive space he uses.

 

im using server 2012 but on that front shouldnt matter too much, it is essentially windows 8. fastcopy bypasses os cache and means it will only do direct I/O so it is entirely devices's capability. but i am on ddr4 dual channel 2400mhz, at 4.8ghz 8700k. if you're on ddr3 and value ram it might make a big difference though it should still easily outpace 960 pro.

 

@Phoenix Yeah, I TAGGED you He hate desktops!!

 

these reviews barely shed light on 900p and shows underwhelming results. for software to fully take advantage of hardware most program needs recoding and restructure from ground up.

optane doesn't have any DDR where as most flash based SSDs have DDR2/3, though not all used as buffer they still store file, so the write speed is masked up, even if OS cache is by passed, it is still a masked speed. especially the 960 evo where it has DDR AND SLC caching, double layers to mask the poor write performance of TLC nand.

optane not only gives a ton of random read performance over traditional nand, it also gives much more performance in mix workload (irl workloads) where flash numbers quickly degrade to that of 10-15% of only read or only write performance.

 

All depends on your usage, but all should stay away from TLC nand if they do some serious workload.

 

i'll get TLC for storage but prob not QLC unless performance is any remotely good and not masked up by some cache. i dont wanna store my files and shutdown, only to find the files corrupted when i boot it back up that would defeat the purpose of storage.

i'd rather see poorer numbers and know that it is the actual speed with no fake/masking numbers.

 

@ole!!! - Because it was bugging me, I ran a similar copy ASDF/ test, but this time on the Linux side of things on the very same machine.

For this test, I just:

- Created / mounted a 512MB ramdisk
- Extracted your rar file to an 'ext4' partition on the first M.2 disk (located on my 'm2a' mount).
- Ran 'time cp -R /path/to/ASDF /path/to/ramdisk/test/'

Better results to report here.

Spoiler: Linux recursive copy with time

What a difference!! The speeds are just under 207MB/s copying from a Samsung 960 Pro NVMe to a newly created ramdisk. I have no idea why Windows 10 Pro has such horrible performance. And this was run on the EXACT same hardware!

------------------------

Edit - I thought perhaps there might be some caching in play with the files after the extraction. So, I reset the system to the state I was in before (except leaving the ASDF/ directory on the 960 Pro), rebooted, re-created the ramdisk, and ran the copy test again. It looks like I was correct.. file caching. In any case, results are less, but still not anywhere as bad as the Win 10 test:

time cp -R ASDF/ /mnt/ramdisk/test/

real 0m1.463s
user 0m0.164s
sys 0m0.685s

This is about 74.9 MB/s on the ASDF/ group of files.

-----

I wonder if there's something wrong with memory within Windows (see sig)? Does this benchmark against the ramdisk seem too low? -

Spoiler: CrystalDisk Mark RamDisk

 

yea the OS is using memory as cache and buffers. I have tested so many software tool and fastcopy is the only one that I can use would be near 99.99% no buffer unless files are smaller than 1kb. basically set the size to 1kb and have all the files be greater than 1kb will ensure OS caching never used with fastcopy.

even though i dont use linux, OS have reasons to use ram if it's available, caching will spread out the read/writes so it doesn't bog down your system. original OS/system is designed with hard drive in place, at old times they didnt really have consumer SSD (15+ yrs ago) and Harddrive are obviously extremely slow when comes to small files, and OS is designed with HDD in mind and probably hasnt changed even with newer version of OS revision.

there might be something real wrong with your windows 10 lol

 

Intel Optane 900p : Our Initial thoughts and Testing

 

theres no way to power the 900p btw, only real way to get it to work internally is through a unused fan (2ndary GPU fan if unused that has 12v/grnd) even then not sure how much current we can pull through it, might damage the mobo i dont even want to try it.

waiting for 800p.

 

What if you can use the second power delivery for second GPU and convert down to 12v ? Maybe it will creat too much heat from convert 19v down to 12v.

 

the schematic for slave GPU has pwr_src which is from 7v to 20v, theres no 12v. i tried it with a slave GPU power cable pwr_src & GRND from same cable, bios doesn't even recognize the drive lol. externally using an 12v source works just fine. unless i can get some sort of tiny transformer into the laptop but it comes with it's own risk.

optane 280gb is rated at 14w at 12v, thats ~1.2Amps, while the gpu fan is only 500mA. about 2x+

 

A new one for you bro @Phoenix Lack only 7 points to reach 2950 in ASSSD with single Samsung 950 Pro Perhaps I have reached the ceiling?

 

Ok bro @Phoenix Where is my well earned virtual cookies for my 2950 and 2952 scores with single 950 Pro? I hope that j00 like my hard work

 

show me RAID scores then we can compete, I can smoke you bro

 

You sure? Pitty I don't have pict of my scores when I had raid setup. But I smoked your old ASSSD score with 950 Pro in Raid0 with a BIG bang But I prefer single ssd setup And you can continue being the ssd bench score winner. But I hope you think it was nice to see old 950 Pro above 2950.

 

800p is a disappoint. i'll stick to 900p external for now, so damn snappy. wating for next gen m.2 x4 optane drive to bring up decent sequential.

 

Yeah. A big disapointment. Too small, too low performance and too expencive for the low capacity. I posted a few reviews of Optane 800P in this thread

 

Intel Previews True Optane M.2 SSD Geared for Enterprise-Tecpowerup.com

Intel Previews Optane Enterprise M.2 SSD-Anandtech.com

 

damn intel man only care for enterprise. its good they are going in this direction but those won't fit into laptop cause its 22110 form factor not 2280. 30mm longer unless our laptop has those slot.

 

Yeah, due todays thin and flimsy, we won't see proper alternatives for notebooks now. Intel really need a boxing parner

"The P4800X and 900P are physically big and power-hungry drives while the Optane Memory and 800P use a tiny controller, don't fill the space available on a M.2 2280 card, and have very limited capacity."

 

Nah, they don't only care for the enterprise.

They chase profits (first) as any responsible corporation should (i.e. responsible to their shareholders).

 

Samsung Reveals M.2 Z-SSD-Anandtech.com


Samsung's exhibit called the drive the SZ985 Z-SSD, but the stickers on the drive say SZ983. The capacity of the demo unit appears to be 240GB, the same as the smaller capacity announced earlier this year when the Z-SSD SZ985 officially launched. Samsung's display also listed a 480GB capacity, likely the most first-generation Z-NAND that Samsung can fit onto the M.2 card.

The development of a M.2 Z-SSD raises the possibility of Samsung introducing a Z-SSD for the enthusiast consumer market, to compete against the Intel Optane SSD 800P. However, it is likely that Samsung can remain quite competitive in the high-end consumer SSD space with another conventional MLC-based SSD to replace the 960 PRO. Sacrificing further capacity for incremental performance gains would probably not be worthwhile, even though a Z-SSD doesn't go as far down that road as Optane SSDs.

Intel Optane SSD 800P looks more like a fiasco. This SZ drive can't be any worse We will see when the prices is sticked.

 

No product is a fiasco (there is only a practical and impractical application of said product) - but I wouldn't trust a 'z-ssd' from Samsung for any of my main systems (yeah; I have several...) for a couple of years. Just thinking about my 840 EVO misery quickly clamps down the need to 'test' this new Samsung offering... at any price.

 

Depends what you think I meant with fiasco. I can't see Intel Optane SSD 800P can or will give me a value as it is. Too small, too little performance vs. the real Optane and too expensive for what you I get. I don't think you should compare 'z-ssd' from Samsung with 840 Evo I know it's new, but the old 840 Evo was in it's own liga

 

that looks amazing, but yet another 22110 form factor.. if we can make mod to 870tm chassis then ONE 22110 should fit, as long as we can make it hold and stay in place.

p4801x and this znand SSD since they are m.2 hopefully its only 3.3v. remaining question would be, why didn't samsung show the low QD random read/write performance.. this is what the product for znand should be about, they are trying to hide something here..

 

Not having a M.2 2280 NVMe form factor doesn't help me with the Mighty Mini, but at least intel is realizing they need to up the ante in size/space if this is to be useful.

The Intel Optane 905P capacity of 280GB, 480GB, and a new 960GB - https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-optane-905p-ssd-3dxpoint,36974.html

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-900p-960gb-1.5tb,36121.html

 

sadly doesnt seem like there will be a m.2 optane for that 905p. though it is good news 905p uses a new controller may very well work with m.2 form factor for future purposes.

in the meantime we can take that 900p m.2 22110 form and hope its 3.3v and works in our laptop, if we can modify one of the m.2 slot to fit it in.

 

@Papusan https://www.ebay.com/itm/112619032791

mini 5v to 12v step up module, this one is really small, will try to take power from a 5v sata power splitter, this just might work LOL

 

for p4801x (900p optane m.2 enterprise SSD, 22110 length), extension https://www.ebay.com/itm/253125183874 and then 22110 bracket https://www.ebay.com/itm/123086272322 would work, assuming it is still 3.3v for p4801x.

this should also work for that 22110 length znand ssd from samsung.

 

Z-NAND is probably just Samsung going to an older 40nm+ process or larger. As larger processes have higher endurance than newer smaller ones. Also it’s probably NAND configured as SLC rather than the mainstream MLC. SLC has like 10-20x the endurance of MLC and also lower latencies that are somewhat competitive with Optane.

Optane was a collaborative effort between Micron (Crucial) and Intel as they have joint R&D and NAND manufacturing as well. However Intel announced they were seperating so Micron is releasing it’s own Optane competitor as they have the technology. It’s still held back in notebooks due to the significantly higher power draw and lower capacity of traditional MLC NAND based drives though even for most workstation laptops. It’s way too much of a niche product right now if things don’t change it’s going to go the way of RDRAM that was over hyped over DDR by Intel and Rambus, as you may end up with alternates or even better NAND improvements by the time it becomes mainstream.

 

Nobody will be moving to larger processes if they want to make money and also get into the mobile market (i.e. where it's heading...).

SLC is low capacity, ~10x the endurance of MLC (nowhere close to 20x though...) and very, very expensive. And with latencies much closer to MLC than Optane.

Nothing above that points to Samsung using that in Z-NAND - if it wants to compete with Optane directly.

 

Smaller is always the trend however in certain cases you can backpedal a little, just like how Samsung already used the larger 40nm node for the 960 series and only now went back to 2Xnm node for the 970/860 series. They could afford to use a larger node to increase cell spacing in order to improve endurance as they could achieve higher densities via layering. The older 840 series used a smaller 19nm node but was 2D Planar. Even SLC canot match Optane in Randoms but its still a pretty decent jump over MLC. Optane is still way too much of a niche, better for certain workstation stuff and in terms its got high cost/power consumption and its not gonna see much adoption until those two issues are sorted out especially on the mobile side.

Samsung has been mum over Z-NAND's exact technology but some analysts have been speculating its SLC NAND based on performance specs from Samsungs PDF comparing to a eMLC drive, it could also be something else.

 

Agreed 100% that Optane is a niche product right now. That's how all tech starts out... but it's here and it works as advertised.

See:
https://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=36&doc_id=1329360

And that quote and link above is from two years ago. I can hardly believe that Samsung would be using those spec's today and still be competitive.

Btw; the 40nm is the size of each die in the stack.

SLC is a decent jump over MLC in latency, however, the capacity limits it entails ensures that that minimal (compared to Optane) latency decrease will never be noticed in a real world case.

Optane is the future of storage and Intel has been offering it for a relatively long time now. Nobody else has even come close.

See:
https://hothardware.com/reviews/intel-optane-ssd-900p-review?page=8

As long as we're not talking about mobile applications (they'll be coming...) Optane is the pinnacle of storage today.

 

It was the 850 series that jumped to 40nm node (not cell spacing) from 19nm seen in the 840 Series, not the 960 series, my mistake.
However its to early to tell if Optane is the future (does seem that way at the moment) or stay a niche that will get replaced by something else eventually, it all depends on how quickly they can reduce power draw and price.

 

i've used optane and i can tell, the snappiness is tremendous. as for znand, wont know until I use it though it shouldnt be that much different from 3dnand flash.

samsung claiming good numbers just as any company would, for actual performance however nothing of znand has been tested yet, where as optane has already been made into a few product.

 

there it is BOYS https://www.anandtech.com/show/12899/intel-previews-m2-optane-ssd-905p-380gb

edit: so intel confirms its going to launch Q3 of this year. can't wait to get my hand on it

 

ALRIGHT BOYS

my 2280 to 22110 extension adaptor is READY

 

FMS flash memory summit August 6-9th. i bet we'll see a bunch of optane and QLC news from intel, and also znand SSDs from samsung and bunch of other 3D nand latest gen etc etc. can't wait.

 

All depends on what it will cost. Small Optane or znand SSDs isn't what I want. Need bigger for notebooks.

NVMe SSDs: Everything you need to know about this insanely fast storage-Pcworld.com

NVMe means no regrets for a long time
If all that hasn’t driven home the point, let’s say it again: NVMe is the storage technology you want for your current or next PC. Unless you’re a gamer or high-resolution video editor, it virtually guarantees that you won’t feel the need replace your current system for quite a while—at least because of performance. Indeed, I’ve felt zero compulsion to replace my six- to seven year-old systems since they were upgraded with NVMe SSDs. Zero.

 

905p m.2 is 380GB. imho thats more than big enough to fit OS and a few games. i got other ssd for storage so thats no problem. problem here is, we will need a 2280 to 22110 adapter to fit this, otherwise we need to cut into chassis.. or clevo need to support it manually with next revision and thats least likely to happen.

 

I know about the bigger 22110 model. I talk about 2280 drives. They are all too small as it is now. We need bigger drives in the proper M.2 2280 size for notebooks.

 

i am fine with 22110 because i plan to mod anyway. also i don't plan on having a worse performance than 900p, it was fast but not the sequential portion was rather disappointing. 905p will be faster by a bit

 

as per intel rep, end of october available for online orders from retailers

 

Nothing for laptops...
Intel Expands Optane 905 SSDs To 1.5TB
Anandtech.com on September 21, 2018 9:00 AM EST

Intel has officially launched the next wave of Optane SSDs, continuing a gradual rollout of higher density drives as their production of 3D XPoint memory catches up with demand. Intel's flagship consumer SSD family is still split between the Optane SSD 900P and 905P, with the more recent 905P filling out the higher capacities while bringing modestly improved performance and power efficiency. This week's releases are the 1.5TB 905P add-in card and 960GB and 1.5TB 905P U.2 drives, bringing the consumer lineup and the enterprise P4800X line both up to the same maximum capacity.



Intel's announcement this week has been accompanied by fresh roadmap leaks from a slide deck intended for an event in November. The file was found on Intel's Russian website and appears to be authentic, but the information in it is still subject to change. The leaked roadmap shows the original Optane Memory M.2 and the Optane SSD 800P being discontinued in early 2019, though the Optane M10 M.2 cache module will remain through at least the middle of next year. A discontinuation of the 800P would clear the way for a consumer counterpart to the smaller P4801X, in M.2 form factor. Intel might not want to put such a product in their 905P product line, but capacities in the 100-200GB range would be a very welcome performance boost over the 800P while still remaining somewhat affordable. However, this still wouldn't give Intel a high-performance Optane M.2 SSD for the mainstream consumer market because the current 905P and P4801X M.2 hardware is a 110mm-long double-sided M.2 card that can't physically fit in laptops and would also be incompatible with some desktops.

----------------------------------

Btw, the scam continue... Samsung Slows Memory Chip Production to Keep Prices Stable Tomshardware.com | September 20, 2018 at 9:02 AM - Source: Bloomberg

Samsung's latest forecast looks pretty grim as the company expects DRAM bit growth to rise less than 20 percent and that of NAND to increase 30 percent. So, the logical step for Samsung would be to slow down memory chip production to limit supply, which could result in consequences for consumers. Bloomberg analyst Anthea Lai believes Samsung would prefer a situation where supply is tight and prices are high, rather than gaining more market share and running the risk of lower prices.

Samsung is currently the world's leading NAND and DRAM manufacturer. The company produces memory chips for smartphones, computers and many other devices. Samsung does not only produce memory chips for its own arsenal of devices, but also sells to other competing smartphone manufacturers. So, it's not hard to see why Samsung takes such great care of its semiconductor business.

 

http://www.pcdiy.com.tw/detail/9371

760 GB m.2 905p optane boys!! @tilleroftheearth so stoked yo

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167466

pre order hmmmmmmmm