Is 950 Pro m.2 really okay for laptops? x2 850 EVO / RAID 0 more realistic?

The conundrum:

I've ordered a Samsung 950 Pro m.2 NVME drive (actually 2 512gbs) for a new Alienware 17 R4 Pascal laptop. As is typical, after ordering, I discovered lots of static online regarding the fact that the 950 Pro's overheat and throttle very badly in poorly ventilated environments (or where supplemental cooling is hard to come by).

I was either going to run them as single drives or RAID0 them for 1TB of contiguous space...

The question:

Do experienced m.2 NVME folk feel this is a bad move? Installing these uber hot running drives in a laptop? Should I anticipate throttling to the extent that it will bother me?

The last question:

Would I be better off (running much cooler, I mean) configuring two of the older 850 Pro EVO m.2 (SATA) drives in a RAID0 array? I honestly don't think I would be too sensitive to the obvious (technical) speed differences between the two scenarios but am mostly concerned about consistent, high performance out of my drives.

I'm not experienced at all with m.2 drives and so thought I would throw that out.

...

(and yes, I'm aware of the new 960's but I think the same applies to them from everything I've read, even with the little bit of copper foil they are putting on the back of the 960 Pros; I'm also interested in the 960 EVO's but pretty sure they are going to be hot running too)

Thanks for any input...
Joel

 

Depends on a lot of related issues.

First, what is your primary and secondary use of the system (workflows and workloads)? Will the storage subsystem be taxed in any normal (for you) scenario?

Second, how much airflow is available for the M.2's in the chassis you have chosen? Will they simply heat up on their own (and they will), or, will they be also heated with the surrounding components too (and; will their heat output adversely affect other components too)?

Thirdly, can you (competently) alter the chassis design to effectively cool these types of drives? While keeping the unit portable (if that is a need) and secure (i.e. no loose or fully removed panels for fans to be blowing on the drives 24/7).


Best use of M.2 drives? Desktops with high airflow designs (NUC's need not apply...).

Best SSD type to use in a notebook chassis if sustained performance over time is a REQUIREMENT? 2.5" SATAIII.

Are there exceptions to the above? Not really, from my experience, but it may seem so depending on how hard the storage subsystem is pushed (continuously), how good the chassis design is from a cooling perspective for the drives and how much (sustained) punishment your workload/workflows dish out to them too.

Unless you are editing raw 4K footage for feature length films... M.2's are more than matched by SATAIII drives (and surpassed where capacity is concerned, of course) in any real world use.

And a quick note about RAID0 in 2016... NO.

 

Thanks. Very helpful ...

My workload is typical office/web and lots of gaming. I also fairly regularly do hi res image editing and video editing but nothing beyond 30 to 45 minute 1080p renders on the latter.

The new AW 17 has a very nicely ventilated chassis but ... still a laptop. Also, I generally use a laptop cooler at work or at home ...

My only reason for using RAID0 with the older 850 EVO's (should I go that way) would be to give me 2TB of contiguous space. Data loss doesn't concern me at all as all my important personal stuff is "cloud" based and otherwise, I religiously image my entire system every month.

Thanks again for the comment... very helpful ...

Best!
Joel

 

You're welcome.

With 'a nicely ventilated chassis', I would be tempted to use a single M.2 for the O/S and programs (1TB or larger M.2, that is... and OP'd by 33% or more...).

And, a 2.5" SSD for your data (also OP'd by 33% or more too).

Cloud based personal data is why I would be worried for data loss.

If you don't own the cloud, your data is not as secure as you think (i.e. buy a NAS).

 

Call me crazy ... but I trust Google's servers far more than any standalone bit of gear I could own. That said, I keep local backups as well ...

I'm going to install the 512gb 950 Pros today and monitor them over the next week during daily, regular usage scenarios ... I still keep leaning towards the older 850 EVO m.2's though ... as I can get x2 1TB sticks for less than the x2 512gb 950 Pros ... and my concerns about temps will be alleviated ...

God I hate (and love) this every 2 to 3 year upgrade process ...

LOL ...

 

Okay, you're crazy.

I am betting on your local backup (if you're diligent about keeping your data, of course).

I would tilt towards the higher capacity (OP'ing is merciless...). If you can test both and report back, that would be most welcome!

 

"OP'ing?"

...

And yeah, I'll post some temp readings (just HWINFO based) once I've run the drives a bit ...

 

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/why-over-provision.760922/#post-9766709

See:
https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei...illeroftheearth+site:forum.notebookreview.com

 

Ahhhhh ... I did not know about this ... thanks ... more reading ... LOL ...

 

Just a cursory read about over provisioning makes me think I've always been doing it ...

If I understand correctly and depending on folks various opinions? Over provisioning is simply leaving 10% to 30% of your total drive space unused/unallocated, correct?

Oddly, with both mechanicals and SSD's ... I've always done this (if indeed my above, amateur analysis is correct) ... for whatever reason, I've always felt "safe" leaving about 20% of my drives available ... mostly to simply avoid "out of space" messages and I just feel happy seeing that available space (really, I have friends). ;-)

Continuing with my assumption that the above is roughly correct ... would this same principle apply to the following:

I have x3 512gb mSATA drives configured as a 1.5tb RAID0 array (in an old MSI machine/laptop). For the 2 years I've used the laptop, I've always only used about 600GB of that 1.5 TB array ... simply because I just haven't had need to use more. So have I been unknowingly "over provisioning" in that scenario? ... does that same simple idea apply when you have 3 drives in an array like that?

Thanks ... good info all around ...

j

 

Quoting myself from the first link I gave above.

Free space is not OP'ing... At least not for most people and how they normally use a notebook system (turn it on, use it, turn it off).

The mechanical equivalent of this is short stroking a HDD. There are no benefits if you just leave the space 'free'.

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...tachi-7k500-benchmark-setup-specifics.442289/

 

There is no need to OP... Me and tiller agree on many things but this.. 10% OP is fine but I've been ok for years with 0% OP... My SSDs still perform well.. 30% is a bit absurd and a standard tiller recommendation lol

 

I'm not as magical as the fruity company is... lol...

(Nobody can OP by 330% and be called sane, but it would be magical).

 

Well I'm pretty new to SSD's anyway ... so I like all info I can get...

All that said ... I did get both new 512gb 950 Pro's installed today; I went ahead and RAID0'd them as I just can't stand looking at a 497GB boot drive (surely a psychological tick and nothing more). And yeah ... just running a Crystal Diskmark bench run got them pretty smoking (like burn your finger smoking) ...
...



I installed individually first and ran them a bit and oddly, running a single drive scenario and in RAID0 ... I simply can't get any S.M.A.R.T. data off of the drives via programs like AIDA64 and HWINFO ... my previous, default 128gb Toshiba drive that came with the machine showed S.M.A.R.T. data quite consistently but not these 950 Pros ... I mostly want to read temps via said SMART data but can't seem to find a way to actually read the temps.

Running the lengthiest Crystal Diskmark test and watching disk transfer rates via Windows Performance Manager, it was quite easy to see the drives throttling at certain points during the test ... on both read and write segments, the speed would start off at about 2900 - 3200 MB/S but towards the middle of the run, they would drop down occasionally and quite a bit ... some times, briefly down to 700K a sec LOL ... but then they'd jump right back up ... (and then repeat that till the end of the test) ...

Turning the laptop on it's side and holding an 80mm fan over them both? They never left the 2900 - 3200 MB/S area ...

...

So I'm not sure how this would impact my day to day, regular use ... it will help to find some way to continuously monitor the drive temperatures and possibly record that data throughout a few days to see when/where and how much the throttling might impact me.

Any tips on how I could get some temps off the drives would be appreciated ...

...

Otherwise, I've got a couple 1TB 850 EVO's coming tomorrow that I'm going to test as well. But I don't think I'll have any temp issues with them ...

...

 

FWIW, this is probably a typo, and my guess is @TomJGX meant 30%.

 

Was a typo sorry guys

 

Yeah, I know! But it was fun.

 

700KB/s? Yeah, Sammy's are laggy as h3ll (still)! (Now I'm wondering if the same thermal throttling was what I was seeing half a decade ago with my first introduction to Samsung SSD's)?

Note: attached image not viewable.

I wouldn't care about the absolute temps of the drives (or of any of the other system components either, as long as they were below rated spec's).

What I would care would be if my workflow was affected in normal use. Your normal use.

Use them for a week or so making sure to fully stretch out the legs on the new system. If you see/feel any glitches w/regards to throttling - it's the Sammys...

If you have the option to try different (M.2) SSD's inside, do so and repeat the above. More than likely, if you saw it once, you'll see it (throttling) again (with any current M.2 drive(s) you use).

See if a 2TB 2.5" SSD (EVO or PRO) gives you better consistency (in the above same, week long test...). Does it feel less 'snappy' (possibly)? But decide if the lower heat contribution to the rest of the components are an overall benefit too.

A fast system that needs TLC (or, simply throttles...) after every high speed run is like a quarter mile car. Fun for 8 seconds or so...

A (true) fast system is one which gives the highest sustained performance over time (without throttling or worse, affecting other components too...) and which is stable and reliable too.

If your testing shows that M.2 products are an overall detriment - stop using them (especially at small capacities and in RAID0 configurations...). The manufacturers will get the message faster too - if they have inventory sitting gathering dust too.


Fyi, in my testing, M.2 drives are like a 1970's hot rod with a big block V8. Lots of power (shreds tires easily), great top end speed (only usable in a straight line) and very hard to keep the block cooled properly and properly tuned between 'runs'). In short, not worth owning one for 99.999% of the population. Even if they were the fastest thing in town.


Sorry, no tips to get temps for you (I think Samsung blocks that info intentionally, btw...). But keep on eye on the other components you can get temps for. If it raises their temps significantly (compared to an 2.5" SSD...), that is what I would be most concerned with.

Good luck.

 

consider the 960 pro. it's a little more power efficient and it has a copper plate.

they say it improves thermals by 30%.

though the throttling will still happen... just later and you'll get like twice the amount of write down before it happens.