Is This Really Necessary - Desktop CPU's in Notebooks

So I found this laptop and noticed it uses a desktop cpu.
XOTIC PC | Sager NP9752 (Clevo P750ZM) - Laptop w/ Intel i7-4790 Processor
Is there any reason as to why I would want a cpu like that over, lets say, a 4810mq.
List upsides and downsides.

 

4810MQ's max OC is 4GHz. It also has only 6MB of L3 cache.
4790K however is 4GHz stock with 8MB L3 cache.

Compared to a 4910MQ, the desktop chip would be cheaper, and the cooling system appears to be efficient on that model (the 17" P17xSM-A series should cool the mobile chips just as well though).

It's also got newer tech in it like M.2 drives, if that means anything to you.

Otherwise, there's no real reason. A P17xSM-A with a 330W brick and relaxed power limits with a 4910MQ or 4930MX would arguably perform just as well, albeit more expensive.

Also, for users who stick with "stock", the 4790K chips have far higher allowances in TDP. You would need to do some tweaking in the mobile chips to get them to stretch their legs properly.

 

kissof_Death,

4790K is the fastest quad-core CPU one can get by far. It's obviously not necessary, but may appeal to some. Obvious downside is battery life, other than that - unless there are major design flaws - there are none.

 

So a 4810mq would be good enough for the next few years?

 

More than, especially if OC'd; unless Skylake literally breaks the mould and gives like +25% IPC with the same clock speeds we currently get.

 

If the question is why a desktop CPU, then bottom line is socketed mobile CPU's are more or less going away. Current tech is going with soldered CPU's across the board. This laptop offers users a chance for an upgradable (and powerful) CPU at that.

If you can find a laptop with an i7-4810MQ that works for you, I don't see why not.

 

I think whichever way you can't go wrong but I would take the 4790K path due to the upgradeability and newer M2 drive slots.. Also better screen options are available for 9752 such as IPS screens..

 

4790K runs HOT in the Clevo machine though.
Test One K73-5N (Clevo P771ZM) Notebook - Notebookcheck.com Tests

 

It also uses a lot of power. What effect would it have on an electric bill.

 

It would make it go up.

 

"How much of an effect" is what I meant to say.

 

Yeah, sorry... couldn't resist.

Considering the i5 they offer is also an 88W nominal cpu there really is not much difference (and the K vs. non-K version of the i7 4790 is only 4W difference too) so just hardware wise, they will be very close in power usage.

What will differentiate this from another less powerful system is how the two will be used. This type of system will probably be run at a much higher percentage of it's on time at full tilt, than almost any other system that will probably be subjected to more sedate use.

In actual cost over a year though on an electricity bill? Not even a couple of hundred dollars more, at the most. Which, when considering the work this should be capable of producing is not that bad. Also, with the K version if it is overclocked that will push it higher too - but I would guess not in a linear fashion and certainly not within the cooling design specs of the chassis either.

 

I don't see the point of this. What can any socket 1150 processor do that a socket G3 processor can't do? This laptop was designed solely to sucker nincompoops into thinking it is better because it uses a desktop processor.

But there still are socketed mobile CPU's, and they offer the same exact upgradability of their desktop counterparts. It doesn't matter if it is socket 1150 or G3, it will still need the same exact BIOS update to use Broadwell.

 

To me, the only point is the performance angle.

Desktop CPU's still surpass any comparable mobile cpu in raw performance. As long as the chassis is able to effectively cool the DT cpu, this will be true.

Upgradeability? Meh.

Time for a new platform by then.

 

Well, if it could take 12-core Xeon like previous model while being this thin...

 

Not at the same clock speeds and same L3 caches (i7 to i7)

 

Please enlighten me. There are no new laptops released with Haswell refresh (i.e v2) CPU's and later (Broadwell and forward) that are socketed. i7-4xxxMQ and earlier are it. There are no more socketed mobile CPU's. Broadwell and Skylake will be BGA only. All new laptops released will have soldered CPU's.

 

What are you saying? That the notebook cpu's are faster than the desktops?

 

What you are saying is not fact, but only speculation. Haswell socketed mobile processors got a "refresh" just like everything else, so I don't know what you are talking about there. There are only dual core mobile ultra-low-power Broadwell processors currently out there, so I wouldn't judge anything based on that either. Last fall it came out that Intel will supposedly release quad-core socket 1150 Broadwell processors this coming summer, but with how everything else has been going, I would neither hold my breath nor expect them to be any sort of upgrade in processing power. In addition, even if mobile Broadwell chips are BGA-only, you could still buy them soldered onto sockets by third parties and the only thing stopping a socket G3 laptop from using it would be a BIOS update.

Let's talk one year from now when we can get a clearer picture of what is going on with Broadwell.

 

That's getting a bit extreme. Soldering onto sockets. The problem is if laptop makers are making them BGA only, then where are you going to put the socketed BGA chips? The writing is on the wall. It's been on the wall for a while that Intel mobile CPU's have been rumored to go BGA only, except for maybe the "Extreme" X series. I hope it doesn't end up like that, but it is looking like reality.

 

It does currently exist. When BGA chips were the same size as PGA chips, they would just desolder the balls and solder on the pins the same way that Intel did at the factory. With BGA chips that are a smaller package, they solder them onto a PCB with pins on it. The only drawback is that it makes the chip sit about 1.5mm taller. Lots of these are available here in China along with all the ES and QS processors. But sadly, you might be right that sooner or later, socketed processors might be going extinct. The way things are going, computers of all sorts are becoming more and more like a commodity, and a disposable one at that, where production cost factors far above user-upgradability. I don't think it is too farfetched to think that some day, Intel will produce only one processor and it will be soldered to the PC. Then you can pay a subscription to have whatever performance and battery life suit you best.

 

/shudder/

Yeah the way they disable parts of the chip as it is to establish price classes, imagine if they can do it from a firmware perspective then. Good news on that front is that it will likely be more or less easily hacked and you can unlock its full potential.

But I think the number of CPU's offered will drop drastically. Maybe two ULV, two "Standard Voltage", and one "Extreme" CPU. Then they can just program the TDP to limit the performance as they see fit.

 

No, I'm saying they're the same. I can show you my 4800MQ at 3.8GHz getting a better Physics score in 3D Mark Firestrike than a user with an i7-4790S (3.8GHz 4-core turbo boost at stock; locked multiplier). Desktop chips are just often clocked higher by people, but a desktop chip and a laptop chip clocked at the same speeds (with the laptop chip NOT throttling due to lack of power or voltage or amperage) should yield very similar results in benchmarks etc.

Haswell socketed CPUs in the mobile market got ONE refresh, which happened at the same time the soldered chips did. 4700MQ --> 4710MQ like 4700HQ --> 4710HQ. The soldered chips then got another refresh recently; 4710HQ --> 4720HQ, etc. If you look at laptops being CREATED and sold since ~1 month before mobile maxwell was released for notebooks and later (MSI's GT72, MSI's GT80, the entire new Alienware lineup of laptops, the new Clevo P6xxSx models, etc) you will find that there are *ZERO* new "MQ" slot laptops being created. The only machines still in production on the consumer end that use MQ and MX chips are the PxxxSM-A series from Clevo and the MSI GT60 and GT70 laptops. Clevo's new performance line, the P7xxZM series? They're using socketed desktop mainstream-line chips. I don't think that's a coincidence. I'm all for hoping there's no BGA-only crap (did you know that thing won't even take power limit increases? It can barely hold its stock turbo boost under any kind of load; it's like they're hybrid ULV + performance chips somehow) when broadwell's mainstream line launches, but let's not exactly hold our breath. I doubt Clevo'd make a new line of laptops to axe them in a couple months because socketed mobile broadwell appears.

 

D2 Ultima,

Thanks for your comments, but that has not been my experience. In every case, (real world use), a desktop system simply blows away anything mobile. Even comparing an i7 mobile to an i5 desktop platforms with same O/S, same Programs and same RAM in each.

Note that OC'ing is not what I'm into. I want a platform that is rock stable and dependable for years on end, with some kind of battery life to boast about too.

As you may remember, I don't care what benchmarks say - my benchmark is how much work (and how effortlessly that work) is performed. When I say effortlessly here, I mean the system still being responsive enough to do a secondary/light workload like browsing, youtube and/or email (Outlook, preferred).


Of course, the last head to head that I did between mobile vs. desktop has been a while - but I'd be surprised if that changed yet. Maybe Skylake will be where they are the same. But I still have my doubts.

The desktop excels at multiple monitors, extreme cooling (vs. a tiny notebook chassis) and almost unlimited wattage at it's command.

Meanwhile, the mobile is focused on power saving tricks (that rob me of performance, even when plugged in) and slim looks.

I would guess that until desktop platforms are offered with TDP's of under 20W (yet still perform vastly above anything we have today) will the desktop and mobile sections merge, performance-wise.

But to me, that is at least a decade away. If not further.

 

Ahem, maybe "blow away" is a bit of an exaggeration. A typical desktop for obvious reasons will always be more powerful, but today's mobile CPUs have significantly reduced (typically 85% of their desktop equivalent) the margin of advantage over their desktop brethren.

Now if you were to refer to GPUs, then that gap would still be significant. A desktop CPU in a notebook just defines the rule of diminishing return.

 

1 - That's been my experience however, comparing haswell mobile to haswell desktop. Since Sandy Bridge has been released, mobile and desktop chips have essentially been the same once clocked at the same speeds with some power allowances set via your BIOS or XTU. My chip might be 47W rated, but I've made it pull 93W in linpack at stock voltage already. If I left it at 47W, it'd not pull anything even REMOTELY close to this, and then you'd find the situation where as you say, the desktop would blow the mobile out of the water... but if you limit an i7-4790K to 47W? See how much that thing throttles. Please note I am not even hitting the realm of overclocking yet. I mean relaxing power limits. When I'm leaving my CPU at stock speeds, I apply a -50mV undervolt, and set the power limit and turbo short power limit to 100W each, and the current limit to 100A up from 72A default. In this situation, no matter what I toss at it, it works without complaint. This is STILL stock speeds, mind.

2 - The last time you checked has been quite a while, and the last time I checked has been very recently, but you're still doubting me. Anyway, as far as a test of CPU power, here are two 3DMark Firestrike runs. Look at the physics scores.
P750ZM user with i7-4790S (3.8GHz 4-core max turbo): NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-4790S Processor,Notebook P750ZM
My P370SM3 with 4800MQ @ 3.8GHz: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-4800MQ,MYTHLOGIC P370SM3