Is laptops innovation dead at the moment

I haven't heard nothing major coming to laptops in a while, there was some talk about the rtx cards, but most likely wont be to much better then the 10 series (considering desktop cards), intel newest cpu's are just refresh and nothing big on the road map. Amd is struggling to make compelling cpu and gpus on the mobile platform and seems to be the least of their worries.

And now dell wants to make a "upgrade-able gaming laptop" no word on workstation laptops

So am I missing something or that sums everything up, we won't see a huge leap in mobile (laptop) performance till like 5 yrs

 

Yea it's an interesting time to be in....



Also check out this tweet.

Summarizing today's Intel Client Desktop + Mobile Roadmap leak:
- No 10nm desktop until >=2022
- Brand new Lakes: Rocket (14nm) and Skyhawk (10nm Atom)
- Intel's portfolio still highly dominated by 14nm through 2020 (Comet/Rocket)
- Ice Lake in Q2, but "limited" - 10nm gfx Q3'20

I wouldn't be surprised if Intel skips 10nm all together and just jumps to 7nm...but that won't be until later later.

Honestly the only thing I'm really looking forward to is the Ryzen 3000 CPU's... but even that is TBD ....

RTX MaxQ notebook cards are a total bust... a joke really with a very wrong naming scheme lol.

With all this being said...it kinda makes me feel even better to know that the 2080Ti KingPin cards that I just bought has a lot of life to it... because there's really nothing staggering to look forward to aside to AMD's upcoming CPU's...

 

Well on the bright side Intel is pushing from 6 cores to 8 cores on mobile side. Just think a few years ago we were stuck on 4 cores. Not talking about laptops that can take desktop CPUs.

Dell already has Alienware Area-51 which can take desktop CPUs so its "upgradeable" but just like mainstream desktop you're limited to your chipset. Now if it was X-series.. that would be something to see but even putting a 9900K on a laptop amazes me.. that thing is a volcano.

AMD likes to confuse everything with Ryzen 3K on mobile being Zen+ but caps out at 4/8 atm.

Nvidia's MaxQ is a joke but at least it pushes some tier up, not so much but now we're seeing laptops with 1660Ti (like 1070 performance) on laptops at $1K range. Turing also enables people that use laptops to game and stream to have better quality without using the CPU for encoding.

Laptops are getting smaller and smaller, going more for a bezel-less standard. Might even get rid of my MSI GT to get something smaller seeing that I barely game when I go stateside.

AMD is coming out with a lot of new things come this summer, hopefully it pushes more new tech from their competitors.

 

Great points.

 

Well, listening to intel we could be looking at 6-8 core mobile and MAYBE 10nm in 2021. But wait, is this them trying to stay in the game?

10nm on desktop and server is right around the corner about to loose it to AMD and 7nm. As it is AMD has no solid mobile 7nm chip right around the corner. To me the roadmap smells of intel struggling to keep AMD at bay in the mobile segment. Remember I said there will be a lot of marketing strategies coming from the Intel camp.

 

More cores isn't a good thing per say. More cores can only do so much for so long, just look at AMD FX CPUs.

Max Q isn't important, you can safely ignore the words "max q"

Hopefully AMD fills the intel void with 7nm chips

 

FX is a bad example IMO considering how poorly implemented multiple cores were in that arch.
I do agree that more cores isn't always a good thing, if you can't take advantage of them they're just wasting heat/power

MQ variants of GPU's are essentially replacing the M versions of GPUs (Maxwell previous) as they're essentially a tier below the name, a 1080MQ is a bit faster than a 1070, but no where near a desktop 1080, same goes for all others.

I wouldn't count on AMD 7NM to be anything more than a more competitive series of CPU's to Intel lineup

 

I agree. But adding cores only gets you so far. Going from 6 to eight is a much smaller increase than from 4 to 6, but it sure runs a ton hotter.

Max Q names don’t mean anything because Max Q variants can run faster than non max Q laptop GPUs. I dunno why they even bothered with the names in the first place. Just refer to TDP instead like “GTX 1050 TI (40W)”

7nm might finally bring 5GHz stable on 8 cores to laptops

 

I'm not sure if any "innovation" is really needed. Aside from perhaps display tech - would be nice to see an OLED with high refresh rate or even a VA display, both have a much higher contrast ratios than any IPS type of display, which is useful with any resolution and any type of content. Once you'll use these type of displays for some time - you will never want to go back ;-) I am telling this as an owner of VA display for desktop and a smartphone with OLED.

 

Innovation could also occur in batteries. We have had the same tech for more than 100 years, batteries have basically remained the same for such a long time. We need a battery revolution and that would really change how we make laptops

 

That's true, battery capacity can always be useful for people who like to use laptop away from any outlet. Unfortunately there's not much innovation with batteries in general - Tesla still can't do anything like a 600 miles between charges and even our Dyson V10 still lasts about 20 minutes on medium power setting with powerhead.

 

We got solid state storage, storage multiple times faster than hard drives. We have transistor CPUs, hugely more efficient than vacuum tubes. It's about time we get solid state batteries

 

Solid state batteries? How about a self-replenishable one? And more efficiency, like 90Wh in the size of a SSD.

 

Self replenishing? Maybe not so soon. But I certainly see bigger batteries that charge much faster coming within a decade

 

We already saw fast charging on smartphones, why can't the same thing exists on laptops?

 

It is a thing already. Some Lenovo’s support fast charging

 

And yet, majority of people's commute tops out to under 50 miles... only 2% of drivers actually have larger requirements.
Tesla is making models in the 400 mile range... but realistically, multiple proposals were published for batteries (molten salt batteries for one thing), sodium batteries, sugar batteries, existing batteries enhanced with Zinc.

The problem is that despite the research showing significant breakthroughs... money simply isn't being shuffled into those projects.

Furthermore, there's a huge industry behind existing batteries which depends heavily on profits from mining materials (an outdated and inhumane practice to be honest - we piled up way too many landfills as is, and we could simply reclaim all of those raw materials and use those instead, and yet, there's way less than 10% of any kind of waste that's being recycled.

Laptops could stand to gain from the following:
Improved displays (obviously). The OEM's could simply choose a better/higher end panel for each size as opposed to using different kinds for each laptop... standardization makes things easier.
Improved cooling designs - this is a huge one actually considering that basic cooling in laptops hasn't really changed in decades. Carbon composites would be better options for cooling mechanisms, also, a waste heat reclamation system of sorts that can shuffle the recycled power into the battery and extend one's use on the go.
Improved batteries.
Less cutting around the corners by giving people higher quality components and improve quality control standards while simultaneously lowering the price (most of us know that OEM's tend to overcharge for many things just because they can, even though actual manufacturing costs are multiple times lower).
Improved customer support (majority of this is abysmal and some of them even don't know the basics).
Improved internal layout and modularity for future upgrade paths.
Unlocked BIOS/UEFI.

I could probably think of more if I wasn't so tired from my trip.
Better hit the sack.

 

This is true, but I know many people who still take long trips in cars, especially in USA where the railroad connection between cities is laughable compared to EU and some Asian countries (or even Russia - all of trains there are slow but there are much more destinations which can be reached by train). Plus it's about convenience - the less often people will be forced to charge the more convenient it is, especially when dealing with wires (wireless charging could be a good step but it is still too far away for cars even though many smartphone users have been enjoying it for many years).
And yes, despite many "breakthroughs" in battery research there is still not enough money being put into them to bring them to market faster.

That would be nice but I believe many laptop manufacturers don't want that to happen to encourage people to spend more money on upgrading the whole laptop instead of individual components. Especially companies like Apple who went as far as soldering RAM to motherboard or requiring proprietary SSD firmware for storage upgrade (I remember trying to upgrade SSD on my old MacBook Pro). Plus I don't believe many users themselves (outside of some enthusiasts) would want to spend more money on "somewhat upgradeable" components like MXM cards, which they may never need to use. So personally I just gave up on that and don't see this changing much.

 

Individuals - maybe. But upgradeable goes hand in hand with repairable, and that is something corporate IT departments do really care about.

 

Yes, repairability is a good point and it's definitely cheaper to swap the motherboard only than the motherboard with something like soldered GPU and CPU. On the other hand, if the corporation will prefer to just rely on manufacturer and the warranty provided by it for all hardware repairs (and if they just buy new laptops once the several years of warranty expire) this factor would be pretty irrelevant (of course, not all corporations have such policies).

 

The idea was that different or existing storage technology is not necessarily an issue... there isn't just enough 'interest' (however we wish to 'describe' it) in it due to existing industry.
Looking at EV cars for instance on longer trips... that can be remedied with more charging stations.
The cars and their batteries are quite reliable, and in the myths about EV's that were recently posted in the Guardian, I think I read that no one actually had an issue with running out of battery or having them fail well before the car would (in reality, they are designed to higher standards than laptop batteries to prevent them from charging or emptying all the way and in all likelihood would outlast the car itself).

However, look at the fossil fuel industry. The people behind it KNEW about climate change decades ago... and yet they actively invested money to NOT publish those papers. Mind you, we did have a pretty good indication that we were lousing up the environment unnecessarily back then (as people like Jacque Fresco who had an interview on Larry King show on national TV pointed out in 1974 - among other things). That's the problem with 'infinite growth on a finite planet' we use. Its fundamentally outdated, idiotic and unsustainable... plundering the Earth for profits when we already could have done so many different things.
Plus in the existing system, we are using outdated methods of doing things and trying to extract as much as possible from them (which results in massive damage, pollution and loss of biodiversity) without actually noting that we have developed far superior methods of producing abundance decades ago which would easily drop our environmental footprint on Earth by at least 10 times.

Plus, molten salt batteries aren't really new at all....

Well, the idea was to discuss things from what types of innovations laptops would benefit from.
Those would certainly help as they would reduce planned obsolescence and result in greater lifespan of a given component (or a system as a whole). If the laptop (or computer system in general) reaches a point where it can't be viably upgraded or you just want something better, OEM's should really have a program in place to reclaim that older laptop so they can harvest it for its raw materials which can be used to make new laptops/systems.

I was quite displeased with what Asus and retailers get away with for example.
Customer service for any company can be stupidly bad... and yet, while people DO point it out, nothing seems to get done on the subject (probably because we don't make enough noise).

 

Speaking of customer service - I was reading the Alienware 51m thread and I noticed some posts with people complaining about issues with Dell's service and service of some resellers including issues with specific compoments, and unfortunately posts like these did get lost in such huge thread. So it's somewhat hard to " make enough noise" about some issues if forums do not provide something like, for example, a sticky thread about "Feedback for Dell and its resellers" or "Issues with Alienware 51m" in an appropriate forum section. And this goes for other brands. Perhaps if more people would be able to quickly find all major issues (without browsing through fluff posts like "I got over 9000 3DShitMarks2027 with Liquid Nitrogen cooling and Akihabara thermal pads") about brand and specific product - the companies and their resellers would be more willing to improve their customer service and their product in general ;-)

 

Anything that has more replaceable parts than a MBP or Surface is a win in my books

 

You saw the Surface Book? Even if 1 drop of water gets in, it's officially a goner since you would need a HEAT GUN to get inside.

Apple's products are the worst. Don't call your throttlebooks "Pro" if users can't upgrade RAM or storage, which are the basic prerequisites for a machine to run more than 2 years smoothly and have a bunch of anti-repair dimwits designing it.

 

As much as I personally dislike Apple products (I have owned 2 MacBooks Pro so I know all deficiencies) - to be fair whatever they are doing is satisfactory for the people who use it, otherwise they would've changed it ;-) If Apple owners want to pay that much for non-upgradeable hardware with a lot of expensive proprietary accessories - it's just their preference, nothing is bad about that, as long as I personally still have a choice of using something else where I can change parts that matter.

 

Thing is, Apple doesn’t NEED to make it hard to upgrade and service them. They simply do so to **** their end users. If you have data on a dead board, it is GONE. No swapping drives, nothing. Dead. Your data is gone.

 

I am aware of that. But like I said, if many users are still ok with it - that's their choice ;-) And there's no reason for Apple to change as long as users are happy with what they receive.

 

Here's the thing. If you got applecare, you are happy. No applecare? No happy

 

I think with or without Aplecare you are already unhappy since even if you bought the pack for a few hundred dollars they can still screw you over.

 

Gotta love 3 year applecare but you need a new keyboard every 6 months so the days you lose over that lifespan is easily among a month or so of lost work time. Pro laptop my @$$

 

You seem to completely misunderstand the logic of generic Apple user. If their Mac / iPhone / iPad doesn't do what they want, they understand that they're doing something wrong, and look up to Apple for guidance - which is happy to offer some additional device or accessory to perform said action, a paid app in the store, or explain why exactly it shouldn't work that way. It may sound ridiculous, but I've seen it way too many times in reality, it doesn't even surprise me anymore.

So, when motherboard fails kissing their data goodbye - Apple user should have backed it up with Time machine, it's their fault they didn't (which is somewhat valid concern but does not cancel out the need for replaceable storage). It is not Apple's fault - Macbook itself is flawless, and if it doesn't have replaceable storage - there is a very good reason for it, and Apple user doesn't need it.

If a user spills liquid on their Macbook and it dies - it's also user's fault, not the Apple engineers who designed it that way. Spill-resistant keyboards are evil, they only promote user stupidity and alcohol abuse during work. Apple knows better, after all.

I may go on and on, but I believe I made myself clear. This post is full of stereotypes, but guess what? They're actually true for majority of Apple tech users I met in real life, and online outside NBR.

 

You have got to be kidding me.

"Flawless"?! How about having the same GPU failure from 2008 up to 2012? How about having a SATA cable failure? Whose idea is that an i9 should be slipped into something thinner than a dime that could barely keep up with an i5? Whose idea is that we should recycle the same GPU for 3 freaking years? What kind of retard that implements a chip that even if you can remove the SSD, it wouldn't work and also doubles as a anti-repair feature?

And "spill-proof keyboard" is encouraging user stupidity and alcohol abuse? My God, you are the next Einstein we needed.

And BTW, what kind of "Pro" machine that has soldered memory and storage? Tell me, who even has the guts to do that other than Apple?

 

A lot of them, actually. Thankfully, soldered storage is almost exclusive to Apple so far.

 

Not to mention you can get a Windows laptop for half the cost of a Macbook Pro that can pummel it into the ground as far as modularity, performance, efficiency and cooling go. Sure, the thickness of the two products can be an important factor in portability, but that is not really an issue if you need a powerhouse monster like the one I have in my signature - plus its STILL far more portable and easier to move about than a desktop computer.

 

**** that's true. Turn your problem into their problem and profit, that is the apple way

 

A Lenovo 730s vs MBP 13:


MacBook


730s


MacBook


730s

Smaller, cheaper.

 

Heck that i5 8th gen will blow the MB out of the water easily.

 

I got bamboozled.

 

It trashes any dual core laptops easily. Twice the price, half the cores. Think different

 

"Thinkpad" different.

 

Ideapads are a better comparison since both devices are aimed at a casual mainstream user (I say that ironically cause the MBP is supposed to be a pro device)

 

Hmmm, thinking of a T480 or T490......

 

T490 is a solid pick IMO. If only Lenovo bothered fitting a cooling system that could actually handle the specs...

 

I configured the T480 with the 8530U, 16GB of RAM, 512GB SSD, MX150 AND 96Wh battery for under $1600.

 

96Wh :0

How’s the battery life?

 

I mean I configured it on Lenovo website LOL.

Just to show how overpriced the MB is.

A sweet little machine that I have yet to laid my hands on.

What do you think about battery life? 96Wh + god-level tweaking? Hell, 8 hours is easy peasy.

 

@Mr.K-1994 for some reason I thought you were going to get a T480/T490, not merely compare it to a MacBook. \=

 

Yeah it had a 2560x1440p screen.

But I already had my first gen Helios 300. Least BS-filled machine I have got.

 

Half the reason to get a MacBook is Mac OS X. The fact that they make sexy hardware and have a marketing and support team that's top notch doesn't hurt them much. There still isn't a laptop mfg that can stand toe-to-toe with apple on every box to tick and say they are better. If you just care about one or two of those many boxes, sure you can. But I'm talking overall experience. The gap is narrowing though. Definitely. Their keyboard woes of the last couple years have made me personally reticent to suggest their laptops to anyone who asks me. If they fix that they would probably be back in my suggestion good graces. A lot of that suggestion is due to OS X.

 

Laughs with Mac OS on thinkpad

Also "top notch" is a funny pun