Is laptops innovation dead at the moment

Yeah, they go the cheapo route instead for improving the cooling capacity. Aka prepare for 8 cores without have do spew out too much money.

 

Can't wait to see Apple use this for the next gen Macbook 'Pro' so they can shoehorn the 9th gen chips in there without doing any real work. Given their recent history though they will be the ones who manage to make it leak out and short your board and then charge you 3000 USD for a replacement.

 

I don't recall anyone covering this... While not my cup of tea, it is something we haven't yet seen in laptop form factor

"Lenovo shows off a folding-screen laptop, coming some time in 2020"

- It doesn't have a name (but it'll be in the ThinkPad X1 family), it doesn't have a spec (but it's using an Intel processor), it doesn't have an operating system ("Windows" but, not specifically "Windows 10"), it doesn't have a release date more specific than "2020," and of course it doesn't have a price.

- Lenovo has built a laptop with a folding 13.3-inch OLED 1920×1440 screen made by LG.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...lding-screen-laptop-coming-some-time-in-2020/

---

Details. Shmeetails. It's foldable... (LOL!!)

 

Some of the statements in there perplex me about this. "The company sees it as being a full-fledged PC that can take the place of your laptop, specifically not a mere secondary or companion device." I really don't see it. Every feature listed says"companion device" to me, not to mention that if they do put enough hardware to really work as a laptop it's going to be way more expensive than competing devices with that screen.

 

3 - 5 nm architectural node = game over for silicon. Game over for electrons, actually. With 7nm we're already seeing the core count per die pointlessly piling up...while mathematics and programming principles have no way to avail themselves of increasing levels of SMP / multithreading. The only roadmap ahead (imho) is photonics / optical and quantum computing.

just my $.02


- Trev

 

Ryzen+ is only 4% behind Intel in IPC... so the difference isn't large at all for Zen 2 to not only catch up or even surpass Intel.
AMD did demonstrate Zen 2 8c/16th CPU against 9900K and it turned out that the AMD system slightly edged out the Intel system and consumed much less power in the process.

Oh and, when Ryzen is paired with high speed ram (3200MhZ for example) with low latencies (cas 12 or 14), gaming performance tends to increase to the point where even overclocked Intel cannot exactly produce a viable difference - and the RAM in question wouldn't set you back any more than what you would pay to get that kind of RAM for Intel system as well.

Zen 2 was mentioned to introduce I/O into the design along with chiplets which should reduce Infinity Fabric reliance on RAM and mostly reduce the latency issue to the point of irrelevance.

The only reason Intel currently has better performance is mainly due to higher clocks (and that's because their 14nm node is designed for high clocks and efficiency, plus it underwent numerous optimizations)... and considering how much higher Intel parts clock, I'm not impressed with them.

You also need to consider the premise that with Intel, not only are you paying a 60% premium for a relatively small performance increase, you also get their CPU's which are riddled with security vulnerabilities, and further reports indicate that patching up those vulnerabilities would come at a HEFTY performance impact (in effect, you'll end up paying 60% more for LOWER performance than what AMD is offering - because performance impacts on Intel cpu's could end up being in the area of 40%).

Yes, there's an option that you disable HT for example, or not get the patches (its nice to see how MS 'caters' to Intel in regards to patching them up ASAP but are relatively slow in rolling out coding optimizations for AMD to improve performance on those CPU's), but at that point, I'd ask myself, what's the point in getting that kind of CPU?

 

Zen 2 doesn't have Integrated IMC, the whole I/O resides on a seperate block, 14nm. Decoupling the uncore and having a literal Northbridge on the CPU will definitely have an impact on the IF performance and DRAM reliance, the only solution is the DRAM speed bump and strong IMC instead of that weaker integrated one from the Zen+ for the sheer BW from DRAM

Latest AMD ES processor leak 12C/24T 3.4GHz Base, the IF latency is still there and increased to 80ns and the RAM is 3200MHz DDR4 Dual Channel CL16 Micron. This time they have improved the L3 cache, so less calls to RAM, biggest rumors are at AMD Zen2 will have DDR4 4000 compatibility from the Biostar along with the MSI X570 leaks, which users are not liking due to the noise and longevity of that PCH fan on the chipset seen from both the leaks, Hopefully the top end X570 won't have to deal with that fan.

SMT scaling and the 7nm power reductions will be great but ST performance (IPC) + the Clock speed and are the biggest things yet to be discovered, I'm personally waiting to see this new Zen2 and what it has, esp when the X570 this time is done exclusively by AMD instead of the ASMedia, so the USB controller get only Win10 support and not Win7, Z390 mobos from EVGA / ASUS can run Win7 as well.


Also

Ballistix DRAM Crushes World DDR4 Overclocking Record at 5726MT/s

With the B-Die being discontinued things will be interesting, hopefully Micron takes their place, Samsung, Hynix, Micron did that price fixing on the memory business and now they want to scale back unfortunately we are impacted..

 

Not exactly game over. We are getting close to game over for silicon, but not quite there yet. You are forgetting using Cobalt connects to lower the resistance found with copper, which is a huge factor. Then you have working with III-V materials like Gallium Arsenide and Gallium Nitride, or working on introducing a band gap into graphene or the use of other novel 2D materials. We have until 3nm (Intel 5nm) to introduce Cobalt, Ruthenium, and other materials like that, which Intel tried to do because they didn't have EUV ready for 10nm.

We will be moving to photonic interposers, though, and photonic based ram is in development, expected as of 2017 around 2023-25. Now, photonic based solutions right now do not give a processing boost, but they DO give extremely low power consumption. Like a revolutionary drop in power consumption.

Also, someone figured out how to use repeatable silicon defects to create silicon based qubit chips. It may have been Intel that did that. So silicon may not be dead, as that process can build quantum chips on existing lines.

So, yes and no. IF latency is reduced with the new generation of chips, and if you look from the earlier leak from AdoredTV to the new leak, they reduced the latency by 20ns. This 80ns is the same latency Zen and Zen+ have with memory clocked in the 2400 and 2666 range at stock. We do not have any reason to assume the memory timings were fine tuned to reduce latency either.

Then there is a question of how they set up the new IF. If you use the full 1:1 of memory to single rate, then you will limit your memory overclock, but will have the faster IF speed (it should be noted the bandwidth of IF was doubled). Instead, if you go 2:1 memory single rate to speed of IF, then you can achieve faster memory speeds lowering the memory latency, but increasing the IF latency and decreasing the top bandwidth you would otherwise get.

Meanwhile, you are missing the point of the fan. It is needed when you use a significant amount of I/O from storage. So you HAVE TO HAVE THE FAN, but you get the use of PCIe Gen 4 x4 on NVMe drives, which is a nice speed boost beyond what anyone else can offer.

Moreover, with all the asmedia issues on security vulnerabilities, among other reasons, it is nice AMD is giving a shot at designing their own chipsets. The question is whether they can get the power consumption down in the next iteration or two.

On the memory front, Samsung is likely preparing to shift lines to DDR5. Consumers will NOT get DDR5 until likely 2021, but server offerings are rumored to have DDR5 next year from AMD. There is also the chance of PCIe 5.0 coming to server products by AMD next year, but it may be the year after. There are currently no plans to give PCIe 5.0 to consumers. But, if AMD implements PCIe 5.0 next year, then it will compete with Intel's proprietary CXL interconnect (BTW, theoretical limit of IF is still higher than CXL and NVLink). This would be used to support the 600Gbps networking connectors being developed. No consumer would need PCIe 5.0 for awhile, but in HPCs, yes.

 

Thoughts?

 

Note: I am not this products target audience.

I only saw the first 1:22 of the video and I cannot agree with anything they state.

A notebook is not a car. It should have the ' ludicrous' mode enabled all the time. I am the one in control of the throttle and I want it available not at the touch of a button, but 'now'... whenever that 'now' is... and even when I'm just navigating the O/S.

Great marketing spin for the kids that can't drive yet, I give them that.

But this is about as useful as the Turbo button to 66MHz not that long ago.

 

As much as I want to like Apple because of their security and privacy philosophy, it’s stuff like this that is disappointing as their days of innovation seem to be dead and have been replaced with insanity.

8 cores in the same chassis, cmon...

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...acbook-pro-keyboard-faster-intel-specs-update

 

cmon... it's magical.

 

You cant even get them unless you buy the touch bar, and the older dual 7th gen versions still have the notorious keyboard too from the looks of it.

To be honest though, retroactive upgrades seem to be much more exciting in the laptop space than lack of innovation. For example the 7700k/8700k upgrade for laptops that had the 6700k originally. Even my old Ranger may get an upgrade with the i7 4980hq (PGA conversion) w/ its L4 cache and Pascal potential.

 

All for the milking of unsuspecting customers.

 

I'm gonna need some benchmarks on this fastest mac ever.

 

And lower performance from 9th gen i7-9750H Mobile in nowadays Windows notebooks vs it’s predecessor i7-8750H ain’t much better.


http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...50h-coffee-lake.810891/page-129#post-10913352

Yeah, its….

 

finally you can cook egg, 6 cores wasnt enough but 8 core sure can do it. believee

 

When we're talking about the fruity company, you could cook breakfast with the original 'Air' so many moons ago, circa 2008...

There is nothing they make that 'just works' for me. When first I picked up that first 'Air', I immediately asked what's wrong with it, because it was burning a hole to the center of the earth.

 

Talking about laptop innovation, that dual screen ASUS laptop looks hella innovative

 

Innovative? Possibly.

Laptop? Can't see this being used comfortably/effectively on anyone's lap.

 

yeah i saw that, it looks nice, like watching a video while playing a game or something else in full screen and could help productivity if used effectively, and shows no lagginess.

but that keyboard is a huge turn off for me, like where do you rest your hands while typing.

I wonder about a folding side screens like a cabinet, to 3 screen setup.

Also I wonder has smartphones and killed the umpc market, cause i still find it usefull to have one of these Sony Vaio UX Micro PC

with a touch screen and modern specs,

low powered i5
16gb ram
probably one those new igpu from intel or amd
a m.2 slot
1080p display
business level of IO ports (usb-c,3.1,smart card)

 

Having the keyboard this far from the screen is weird. Also a bit sceptical about the use for this second screen.
I suppose you have to try it yourself to see if it is really useful or just a gimmick...

 

That front edge KB seems better suited to something that's desk-only.

 

I mean, it CAN be used on the lap. Effectiveness is another matter...

I think how useful it varies from useless to game changer. It depends on the person and on the workload for sure.

 

Now this is innovation! Looks intriguing no.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/28/...xclusive-dual-screen-hinge-tobii-eye-tracking

 

I can think of a million problems, but damn is that one epic computer.

 

That's unexpected and very cool. Not sure it is really something I'd get much use out of but that's the kind of innovation I like to see.

 

Imagine that but with a more refined design and slim bezels... that could be a pretty sick laptop

 

See:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-twin-river-dual-screen-laptop-hands-on,39508.html

The top story above is the 3:2 aspect ratio of the screens.

This brings me back quite a few years.

When I first started shooting, so many years ago, I was mainly doing portraits.

When digital started to become available and most importantly, finally monitors eventually became worth editing digital photos with, I would always turn those monitors to portrait mode to work on some of my best images.

While this is not quite how I work like today, this Honeycomb Glacier design is effectively a 'portrait' mode display when taken as a whole. Very efficient and productive set up of multiple monitors.

With the potential to make this one off, clumsy proto-type a reality and really polish up the design, this may really be the 'next big thing' in mobile. Depending on how and by who this is made and offered by, of course.

Along with the great cooling potential, and possibly an additional slab battery pack or two underneath, this may allow me and my teams to really turn up the on-site compute we could show up with, all in the smallest, most compact form factors possible.

If they take this idea to the logical extreme, I would be seeing an example of this initial idea with 3:2 screens.

But they may have to save something for 2025.

Yeah, this is innovation. The only hurdle now is the actual implementation.

Where's that number for Lenovo?

 

Agreed. This probably seems stupid but I think my favorite part is how high above the keyboard the main screen can get.

 

That’s not stupid at all. They sell laptop stands for that exact reason. An eye level screen is much easier to work with IMO. Take that laptop and you don’t need a stand anymore

 

That's part of it. I like my hands not to be so close to the main display, and even with a stand that pretty much requires an external keyboard. I don't mind them near a secondary display, so with something like this I would feel more comfortable