KABY LAKE "i7-7700K" FINDINGS. Not for FCBGA aka BGA

As the title say. Please post all your findings about KABY LAKE


Kaby Lake will have 20% Gain in Multi Threaded Performance Over Skylake http://wccftech.com/intel-core-i7-7700k-benchmarks/

Kaby = More like Overclocked Skylake http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...00k-overclocking-performance-review,4836.html

"We suspect this is all on air cooling, though Duan doesn't say. Either way, it appears as though Intel's unlocked Kaby Lake processors will have some headroom to play with, so long as you use a good cooling solution" *x49 multiplier and 1.264V*


Read more at http://hothardware.com/news/intel-kaby-lake-core-i7-7700k-overclocked-to-49ghz#F6Vx2IcA7HO8Tbre.99

Review of i7-7700K - Use Google translate http://www.expreview.com/51056.html
As said in the review "This Core i7-7700K physique is quite good, can be reached in the 1.296V voltage 5.0GHz frequency"



Intel Core i7-7700K Retest from TomsHardware http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-core-i7-7700k-kaby-lake-overclocking-update,33119.html Not the big change

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And for those who wait for new tech... Intel to delay release of super-fast Optane SSDs into 2017-2018 http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-...fast-Optane-SSDs-into-2017-2018.186728.0.html
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http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015...76700k_ipc_overclocking_review/7#.WEtwihvhCUl

http://wccftech.com/intel-core-i7-7700k-core-i5-7600k-overclock/

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2016/12/05/core-i7-7700k-performance-overclock-preview/6

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Edit http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/12/09/intel_kaby_lake_core_i77700k_ipc_review/1#.WE1TABvhCUk

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Edit. Benchmarks from kaby lake http://www.eurocom.com/ec/benchmarks(384)ec

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Edit. Now it's finally activity on http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_7700k/

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Edit. Yet another review of i7-7700K http://www.eteknix.com/intel-core-i7-7700k-kaby-lake-processor-review/

 

It's a 350 dollar chip. What else does one need to know?

 

Perhaps those who prefer BGA can be updated about the advantage of buying machines with LGA Info out to the people

 

Keep up the good fight, but bga people will continue to buy....BGA. No mater how much information is out.

 

forgot the difference is that kaby has built in drm capability, I personally won't buy it unless there's a way to permanently disable the feature

 

What does this do that affects you in a real way? Are we talking about DRM as in copyright protection, or DRM as in ridiculous limiting online all the time crap?

What is DRM on a cpu?

DRM isn't a bad thing in and of itself, it's the application of it that's usually extremely bothersome and intrusive to usage.

Like will it limit stuff you can run?

 

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016...ing-pc-kaby-lake-cpu-windows-10-edge-browser/




live life free as a pirate

 

Yes, but suffice it to say...that is only one of the few new things that are already in play....

 

That's pretty ridiculous. So a far more expensive and more powerful cpu, like a 6900k for example, can't even use it? Like it would make sense if the cpus couldn't like handle it, but that kinda of exclusivity for no reason... Not a good sign. I'm all for paying for stuff, but it needs to be fair. Having to buy a new machine to watch 4K netflix is bs if it's literally downgrading my rig.

You can't say that without details! Like what?

 

Actually I can....

 

"Can't be captured in software"

Oh really now?

 

Well...That one has yet to be proven right? There seem to be a lot of tech savvy folks running around on the internet these days....

 

I hopw AMD zen will surprise us more. Clock for clock Kaby lake offers no upgrade over Skylake. It is ridiculous that Intel cannot bring more performance to the table this generation.

Nothing more than just a better binned 6700K. Some good 6700K's already reached these speeds at those voltages anyway.

 

I don't think it's just about speed....

 

But power draw does not change as well. so whats left except for a chipset with more pci express lanes and native usb 3.1 support?

 

I think it's more about security....

 

Agreed... Intel is sacrificing too much space on the die for the iGPU... So actual CPU performance increase is minimal if any...

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

 

The only solution!! Read http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-overclockers-lounge.788975/page-728#post-10406773

 

Updated Op with http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/12/09/intel_kaby_lake_core_i77700k_ipc_review/1#.WE1TABvhCUk

The Bottom Line
"We have come to expect small advances in Intel IPC over the recent years and we have come to expect nothing from AMD. Intel has produced some fine silicon and injected excitement into our CPU industry when there were no others to lead. Thank you for that, it is much appreciated. As we watch Moore's Law fall, I have expected IPC and core width to be Intel's focus. Quite frankly, while I have not been impressed with 10% gains in IPC, I have been happy to at least see those."

"With Kaby Lake, Intel has just given the big middle finger its fan base, loyalists, and every hardware enthusiast in the world. Intel has just told us, we do not matter to its corporate structure any more. To the enthusiast, Kaby Lake in its Core i7-7700K form is nothing more than what Francois promised two years ago. I would not spend my money on Kaby Lake simply in protest."

"AMD, do we matter? Lisa Su? AMD has a hugely influential and substantial fanbase waiting to wave your flag again. We all still have that Blue Core Thunderbird and 9700 Pro love in our hearts. We are older now and have lots of money to spend on tech and its toys. We are established, influential, and well informed, and all our family members and all their friends ask our advice on computer purchasing and then it trickles down. That is the HardOCP reader profile. Wouldn't you love to have us once again direct all those purchasing dollars with a comment like, "Just look for the AMD Zen (and beyond) badge and you will be getting a quality product."

"If we have learned anything this year, it is that grass roots support is monumental. God knows us enthusiasts can market better for AMD than Roy Taylor can any day. AMD, the door is open, give us a reason, please"

Spoiler: POWER CONSUMTION 7700K VS. 6700K

 

Time to put my tin foil business hat on for a second:
1) AMD and Intel are the only real competitors in the x86 chip race.
2) AMD must pay it's debts by 2018 or it is insolvent and collapses, leaving Intel as a monopoly to be broken up by Anti-Trust laws.
3) AMD, although doing better this past year, is still losing under GAAP (generally accepted accounting principles) and having large payouts to Global Foundries under a silicon wafer purchase agreement.
4) AMD Spun-off Radeon to guarantee it's survival beyond 2018 regardless, but, as a subsidiary, it continues to give money to AMD to pay the debts.
5) Intel has licensed Radeon iGPU IP from AMD so that it can put better graphics into it's CPU, which hurts Nvidia and helps AMD get paid on EVERY Intel CPU with iGPU during the period and beyond (in the event that the 2018 debt is refinanced to give more time for AMD to pay it off).
6) AMD will receive plenty of revenue by winning the majority of console contracts both for die-shrinks this year and next year's consoles (save Nintendo Switch which went with Nvidia).
7) Kaby Lake, according to one reviewer, is slower clock for clock than Skylake (although power consumption is the same, it has better voltage usage so that it clocks further with the same amount, meaning the true improvement is that, which can partially be explained with the thicker PCB on the CPU, something I noted to @Papusan recently).
8) Zen is being held to be able to compete with Haswell and Broadwell CPUs, but until we see the entire hands on with the new chipsets coming this week for AMD, we will not know for sure, same with final clock rates on Zen and ability to overclock. If it comes close to Skylake performance, then AMD, if priced right, will receive a huge boost in sales, allowing for AMD to stay afloat and pay off debts.

Now, I'll take my collusion tin foil hat off and say that this is all conspiracy theory. In the alternative, Intel hit a development wall at die shrinks beyond 14NM, losing ground to TSMC, Global Foundries, and Samsung. This means that it has hit a rut and so the performance gains are largely an illusion done for marketing purposes, which is supported by the continued pushing off of X-point storage, etc. This also matches due to changing directions of focus into IoT research, into Atom chip research to compete against arm proliferation (especially related to Nvidia), and the constant changes of departments into one another to hide development costs and losses given in their 10-Ks and 10-Qs. Is it that they hit a wall and now suck, perhaps. Is it market collusion to prevent being broken up? Perhaps. But, the power consumption could have been lowered, in part, by going to the thicker PCB, not just improvements in design if I remember the discussion of thicker and thinner PCBs related to video cards and that it works in this situation as well (it may not and then I sound like an idiot, I'm OK with that. Please correct me so I can learn more), which would say that being critical by its purchasers is not the reason for the move to different PCB. Time will tell, just wanted to lay out the landscape as I see it...

 

We've discussed this before: crippling new platforms to test IPC improvements (today) are meaningless. But ~13% less power for identical performance isn't.

I want to see a test (yeah; I'll have to do it myself...) with an optimized Skylake setup vs. an optimized Kaby Lake setup. Whole platforms - head to head.

Not locking down newer platforms to the 'dumb' of the old...

I don't know if Kaby Lake would 'win' there - but I have a pretty good idea it will.

Any reason to upgrade to an i7-7700K from an i7-6700K? Of course not - unless you bill by the minute for your time... (any kid in Jr. High can tell you that).

But saying that IPC sucks and therefore AMD is the better choice to bring us the increased performance we want/need? Seems far fetched to me.

That (up to) 13% less power is the intriguing part for me on that article... If I O/C'd today (yeah; not anymore - yawn), that would indicate up to 13% faster at the same power usage. That's my take.

For me, even ~10% less power usage is a huge reason to upgrade - having dozens of always on workstations multiplied by the lower $$$ is still $$$$ in my pocket. Intel knows which low hanging fruit to pick.

Once again, I hope AMD wakes up to give Intel a real reason to show it's prowess once again like it did a decade ago (and is still doing so today...). But that hope gets harder and harder to call up when each year, the targets AMD chooses are targets that have been blasted by Intel years ago.

 

To be fair, when AMD first flexed and did well from Athlon 64 to phenom, it was proven that Intel violated antitrust laws. Beyond that was mismanagement of AMD while Intel eventually put out the core series and the modern i-series. AMD only has changed direction recently, although the tech they have developed (cache, HBM, HSA, etc.) hasn't been incorporated, because the software market refused to code for it, has significantly disrupted their potential profits. Now, we are at a point where DirectX 12 and Vulkan are based off of mantel, which gives amd a huge opportunity if it can capitalize moving forward. HSA may find new life if the Zen APU 8-core is done well, allowing users to use the HBM as a fourth cache layer with massive bandwidth. They finally switched to SMT (numerous reasons why CMT was used, but software never really optimized for it), added more cache levels to their GPUs, etc. They have an opportunity, but are struggling. Samsung is even helping keep them afloat by the cross-license deal with GloFo for the 14nm process and potentially all the way to 7nm. Time will tell, ultimately.

I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment, but wanted to detail other factors...

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

The only reason for them to forcefully include any iGPU is so that they can say they are still close to moore's law. WIthout those iGPU's there is almost nothing new on those CPU's except for small improvements.

 

True that.. The jump from Sandy Bridge to Kaby Lake clock for clock is probably 40-50% which is literally nothing compared to the jump over the 2000s..

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Updated op with Benchmarks from kaby lake http://www.eurocom.com/ec/benchmarks(384)ec

 

It appears that delidding this CPU is almost mandatory. 30c temp decrease after delidding and using better TIM.

http://wccftech.com/intel-core-i7-7700k-delid-performance-tests/

 

Yes, but they switched from a corsair based 240x120mm cooler to a kraken 62, which is a 280x140mm aio, thereby creating a need to control for temp drop due to different cooler. The reviewer that delidded used zero controls in his process, meaning the 30 degree drop is not solely attributed to the delid!

Edit: the h110i is a 140mm aio, so the cooling area want less in that way, but I haven't compared the kraken and the h110i. Meanwhile, different coolers still negates as an extra variable not controlled for (also do not know the fans used)

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And who wants go up to +5.0GHz in laptops without Delide and apply Liquid metal? We don't talk about a brand new fully locked down 45w low entry [email protected] on all 4 cores or even worse... The successor to 6300hq.

 

Well i never needed to delid my old sb to reach 5ghz on air. Not even liquid metal paste. Different times though. The ipc is better now.

 

That's because Sandy Bridge's IHS was soldered on, can't really get much better than that. I understand why they can't use solder anymore, but I really wish Intel would pick better TIM

 

Yeah, after that it went downhill. Lnly their 6 and 8 core tange still have flux soldered IHS on top.

 

You mean the Everyone thought they were world class over clocker" chip. That's what Sandy Bridge was....

 

looking promising thus far. if this keeps up with 1.3xV sufficient for 5Ghz im in for the upgrade

Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10

 

when can we buy Kabylake?

 

NDAs and embargos seem to mean nothing for Kabylake. Was it always like this? There appear to be benchmark leaks and retail CPU samples floating around everywhere. The CPUs are supposed to launch at CES in January, but I bet some retailers are willing to sell Kabylake CPUs already if you have good connections.

 

I think it is trying to combat the Ryzen news that has dropped recently, cashing in on brand loyalty and higher multiplier to dissuade people from considering the 8 core that is in a different class. There is no way this many reviewers cannot do one to one comparisons (like switching out the cooler after delid or doing clock for clock comparisons with the 6700k). They are being allowed to leak it, but only certain aspects of it...

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Now it's finally activity on http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/core_i7_7700k/

 

What if intel is hitting the silicon roof? Working on the iGPU because well...the haven't worked out a good solution to the impending silicon ceiling. The IPC improvements from Sandy Bridge to Kaby Lake is what....25-30% at best? Or maybe they already have the solution and have it on backup in case AMD does actually come to bat.

 

I'm sure something is holding Intel back, otherwise why do they keep banging about the iGPU in each new iteration? Something is fishy here for sure!

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The igpu involved licences with Nvidia and now licences with AMD. In other words, not all development on the igpu is fully Intel! Plus, see my collusion argument earlier and the converse that they hit a wall taken with this bit on licensing...

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Graphene. They have nightmares trying to figure out how to milk that ****. This and/or the future that AMD saw with their "Fusion" APUs, quite a few years ago, is finally coming.

 

Graphene is a nightmare, but that is why they are also trying to figure out other 2d materials and compounds to use. The delay of EUV lithography has also contributed. Instead, because of these delays, some have said 7nm will be the earliest deployment rather than 10nm, meaning 10nm (and getting yields up) are being done with current lithography. This wall has allowed tsmc, Samsung, and glofo to catch Intel.

Meanwhile, they are also looking at optical interposers being incorporated, meaning the motherboard and qpi lanes being fiber optic, then converted back for processing, etc. This is being looked at for 2018-19 server side (or was awhile back, haven't looked at current timelines on that tech).

But it does seem a lot of AMD developed tech is being brought off the shelf and software developers seem more willing to write for it now, too...

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I know it's not good for desktops, but until recently when they seemed to be deprioritizing quad-core top-GPU combo mobile SKUs, I've actually really appreciated Intel's focus on GPUs. They've actually made massive headway, and have considerably closed the gap between their solutions and dedicated solutions from AMD and Nvidia. While I like the idea of dedicated GPUs in laptops in theory, in my actual experience, dedicated GPUs have been nothing more than an additional point of failure that have reduced the life of my devices.

 

I agree to a degree. As to bga based dedicated GPUs, whole heartedly agree, but if you are using a bga based cpu, rather than socket, you are purchasing a new integrated motherboard anyways. If socketed cpu and mxm gpu is used on a higher end side, then replacing the single item, even if another point of failure, will cost less than total replacement. Unfortunately, bga is where all is headed making your statement more generally applicable (but that also means those devices perform less duties than the higher end counterparts that require a dedicated gpu for performance requirements).

As time goes on and all except Clevo and msi have moved to bga dedicated GPUs, your statement is dead on, which is why the laptop enthusiast community that supports desktop replacements have become so upset with the lack of options. It creates a necessity to have a desktop for heavier workloads and a laptop is nothing more than a mobile convenience that is for weaker loads, making it compete with tablets. This move can also be seen in the recent articles detailing the use of snapdragon ARM chips on laptops...


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I'm regretting my BME degree and wishing I'd gone EE instead...would love to be on the forefront of this.

 

Yes and no. If a cpu fails a socketed CPU would be cheaper to replace. If the GPU fails, in the case of Alienware laptops it is cheaper to replace the whole motherboard which can be found often for under 500 euro for the highest end models. A replacement MXM board is often much more expensive. I still dont get why they must cost more than 250% compared to the desktop card version.

 

Does that include 1080 and 1080 sli bga models? Also, which models of CPUs are you comparing? The old 70 and 80 models within the series, that is true. If that included the XM/MX/flag ship Intel model, then I'm finding the price hard to swallow as those are still insanely high. I will concede the point for certain hardware and models, but not as a universal truth (while noting I haven't priced out the BGA based motherboards on high end gaming/business/enthusiast boards versus midrange and lower).

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I only have knowledge currently about the 980M and 970M boards for the Alienware 15R2 & Alienware 17R3 prices. I see those go for between 300 & 500 dollars. I see the MXM boards going for much higher.

The CPU's onboard are the 6700HQ and 6820HK versions.

No 1080SLI bga laptops at this time yet as far as I know?

 

Yet another review of i7-7700K http://www.eteknix.com/intel-core-i7-7700k-kaby-lake-processor-review/ for OP

 

Well, well, well, it looks like the famed Netflix 4k decoding isn't actual part of the "CPU", it's part of the iGPU. Which means dGPU only laptops won't have access to it, as well as laptops while in dGPU mode if MUX switchable.

Which means if you want to stream video while doing something else, you'll want to work in iGPU mode or use Optimus - another snare for the unwary unmindful of Optimus's shortcomings.

"The latest Intel Graphics HD 630 introduces support for VP9 decoding and 4K HEVC 10-bit decode/encode. Of course, there’s still 1080p HEVC decode/encode which became an integral part of Skylake’s video functionality.

Apparently, Kaby Lake can decode 4K-resolution content at 60 frames-per-second with a bit-rate up to 120Mbps.

The architecture has native support for HDCP 2.2 and Microsoft PlayReady 3.0.

Therefore, it’s possible to view 4K Netflix streams through the Edge web browser on a Kaby Lake processor.

The iGPU has some minor improvements when it comes to gaming although it’s still pretty weak in comparison to discrete solutions."

I'm assuming Nvidia will provide these features as well so we can remain in dGPU active only, avoiding iGPU and Optimus.