M17x R4 Best Upgrades

I currently have an M17x R4 with the following specifications:

8GB RAM (Included by Dell, I believe it's Samsung branded 1600MHz)
60GB SSD (OCZ Agility 3 from many moons ago)
750GB 7200 RPM HDD
Intel i7-3610QM
7970m (Extremely dead, not functional in any way)

I have to replace the graphics card and I've been looking at my options. The 980m seems like a huge upgrade and from what I've seen Woodzstack has a great price for it. My concern is that my processor will be a bottleneck for this card. I'm just going to be honest in saying that I don't do a whole lot of gaming, I play World of Warcraft fairly often and some random games like GTA 5 every once in a while. Most of the time it's used for light CAD editing and software development.

My question to the lovely people of the Alienware section: What upgrades would be in my best interest to pursue?

The absolute maximum that I'll spend on upgrades (including the necessary graphics card replacement) is $1000. I'd like to buy something that is going to last a few years and an AMD card is basically out of the question (I've had 7970s die in the year or so that I've had the laptop while using a notebook cooler in a cool environment. The cards were never overclocked and the computer was never really pushed for more than a few minutes at a time.)

Thanks,
Eddie

Note: I posted this same thread under the Alienware subforum but I realized that this subforum would most likely get more traffic. I apologize if that's a practice that's not allowed or frowned upon on this forum. Dealing with all of this on mobile has been fun to say the least.

 

Your 3610QM would bottleneck you some in GTA V unless you force a GPU bottleneck almost all the time. A 3940XM or 3920XM could be had for $250-350 or so give or take.
980M is indeed a good upgrade but it likely will not work very well and will require a lot of elbow grease to use; up to you on that.
You should need an unlocked BIOS to get your CPU to pass 67W of power (which it may or may not use; depending on how high you've overclocked it and what is giving it load).
You should also get a solid SSD for your OS and maybe even another for some games. HDDs are fine and all, but many games benefit from a SSD. Also the 1TB 7200RPM HGST Travelstar 7K1000 is a fantastic HDD for laptops, and loads things fairly well too. Up to you if you want to change out your 750GB HDD however.

All those upgrades would cross your $1000 limit however, so it's up to you what you want to do, if you wish to grab a 970M and get the CPU upgrades etc instead, or what.

 

What would you personally do? I'm not afraid to tinker with things, I'm already running an unlocked BIOS on this computer.

 

If I had the money I would get a 980M and a CPU upgrade first and foremost, and later I'd fit out SSDs and better RAM and such. But end of the road I'd use more than $1000

 

The $1000 is just what I'm willing to throw at it right now to get it back up and running in a reasonable manner. A portion of my paycheck is automatically diverted to a "for play" account, in a few months I'll be getting whatever I don't get now. I just want to know that the money I'm spending now won't be wasted until then.

 

You're willing to throw in an additional $1K into a three year old platform that was ~$2.6K at the time?

How much can you get for your system as-is or better yet; in parts?

I would suggest you re-consider what a new system can offer you (especially if you can wait for a few weeks/months for Skylake to materialize).

One thing to consider, without having the latest Platform, CPU + max RAM - you will not get full performance from any component you upgrade either, including the gpu.

A current gen GPU like an 980M in an IB platform will not give it's best performance possible, even with XM based cpu upgrades.

I see there are many options to get a system built/designed for the 980M with a current platform instead (and some actually less than the MSRP of the M17x R4 at introduction).

I know that spending serious cash on an old system is never worth it in the long run.

Think about all your options and then proceed accordingly.

Good luck.

 

Are you high?

First off, he cannot buy an unlocked machine without dumping another 2G+ into a P770ZM.

Second, a 980M in a machine with a 3940XM is perfectly fine. The PROBLEM is that it's an alienware, and thus I cannot guarantee it won't throttle or that it'll be overclockable, since current nVidia drivers seem to detest the Alienware legacy laptops. That's the only issue. And if any 980M M17x R4 owners can confirm that single GPU works fine in that model, then he has no problems whatsoever.

Third, you can't even buy any CPU that can halfway dream about overclocking in a mobile form factor today. You ARE limited to desktop CPUs in laptops which the P750ZM and P770ZM models offer, and even then, only the P770ZM has a decent screen in it as far as response times go. The M17x R4 as far as things go is a pretty good machine, especially upgraded with the CPU TDP limit bypassed. A solid 240W PSU with a 980M (especially if mostly at stock) is more than enough for some solid CPU overclocking.'

If he's got a dead 7970M and a 3610QM with a really useless 60GB SSD and a 750GB HDD he isn't really gonna get enough out of reselling that system for parts to buy a decked out P770ZM which is the only logical replacement.

Anyway the point of this post is that putting a 980M in a properly working machine that happens to have an ivy bridge CPU will not hinder it in any way. I don't know where you got that idea from, but it isn't true.

 

No, I'm grounded by reality. Which seems you hope doesn't exist for the OP...

The IB platform and cpu combo he has will not push the 980M to it's limits. That is a fact... and why any component is tested with the highest performing base platform to see any possible differences.

The multiple 'ifs' on getting the XM working along with transplanting the 980M into this old platform is not my idea of a good bet with real cash (i.e. $1K).

The parts that you can sell from old systems are not limited to the storage subsystem components, btw... Case, M/B, power supply, etc. are just a few of the parts that may be in demand by some - even the dead 7970M.

And the replacement notebook that the OP should be looking to buy is not limited to the P7xxZM models you think are the only ones worthy.

Saving, by spending, $1G on an old system is not getting you farther ahead than simply spending the money needed to do this right (buy the platform that is designed to run the 980M properly).

Just my thoughts - from the lowly and lonely ground of logic.

 

Ivy bridge quads with the 3720QM and up do not limit the 980M at all. I would certainly upgrade to a 3920XM for 320$, it definitely is nowhere near out of breath and even edges out the 4930MX in some cases. It is a fantastic chip, and the R4 can certainly run it with some proper thermal paste. However, the GTX 980M/970M do NOT work properly under windows 7, and will require UEFI + Windows 8 to get it to work. The 980M will run you 720$ from RJtech, but I would personally go for a GTX 970M for 450$ or a 780M for 300-350$ and overclock it. I also recommend getting a Micron M600 SSD from ebay, the 256GB version. Then can be had for around 80$ now and they give great performance and reliability for the money. Going to the next logical successor, the P770ZM would cost over 2000$, versus around $700 for tangible upgrades that would certainly extend the service life of the machine for another 2 years comfortably.

 

No, this is not "fact". A properly set and highly clocked 3940XM will beat any currently sold mobile haswell, broadwell and most likely skylake (assuming HQ limitations remain) in terms of what the CPU can offer, and it can use highly clocked RAM with decent timings without needing to run the low voltage of 1.35v. In fact, an ivy bridge system is MOST likely to fully draw out the power of the 980M because the XM chips are so easy to clock highly in terms of power draw and heat compared to haswell chips.

The only "if" is "if" the 980M will do well in his system. I told him about the unlocked BIOS but he has it already. It's simply a matter of buying the CPU at this point. The only other "if" I can think of is the fact that he might have a dual-heatpipe heatsink and may need a triple-heatpipe heatsink... but again, this is not exactly overly difficult nor expensive.

I was considering case/M/B/PSU/etc. Nobody wants a 3610QM right now. Everyone has it or a better CPU already. It's not like a 3840QM which has some definite resale value, but as the user above me pointed out, a 3940XM is $250-350 or so, which is not a lot at all, and even if a 3610QM had good resale value, it would be substantially lower than that price. Dell PSUs are cheaper to find in my experience than say... Clevos. Constantly see them for $50-80. All in all I don't expect his system to net even $1000 right now, given the parts he's listed.

Any replacement notebook he could get that includes an HQ processor (I.E. every notebook that isn't a P1xxSM-A notebook or P7xxZM notebook) *IS* a downgrade on the processor front, if he upgrades his processor today. End of story. This is not an argue-able point. Even if the GPU support is better, those CPUs are 10 times more likely (not an exaggeration) to cause the "bottlenecks" and "performance limitations" that you claim the IB systems will have.

If he wants to buy a system that will potentially perform as well as what he could have if he upgrades his current notebook, then he simply needs the two models I listed. It is what it is. That's what's on the market right now.

If this is your logical conclusion, then your logic is formed from misinformation that you have, likely about mobile processors in general. The only thing you could likely prove to me in all you said is how much resale value he could get out of his notebook.

 

You based a whole post on quoting me and then getting the quote wrong. The OP doesn't have the 3940XM, highly clocked or not...

If I just take it at your word that his system is worth ~$1K in parts and he spends an additional ~$1K that he/she wants to spend anyways... that is the most logical path.

You can argue how much performance an additional $1K on past sunk costs will gain the OP - but in the end, it is still just an old system, no warranty and with no assurance that another part just won't go up in smoke after all the suggested upgrades; been there done that.

 

No, from the start I suggested a 3940XM as an upgrade he could use, as I know the 980M is $720 or so, so the XM chip could be within his $1k limit, depending on what he does with RAM/SSDs/etc. YOU said "an ivy bridge system will limit him more and he can't bring out the potential of any of the new GPUs". That is 100% false. The more correct statement would have been "A 3610QM will likely limit you some, and a newer system will support your 980M better". But the fact is the potential 3940XM of his system already means it surpasses ALL current mobile-CPU-using laptops on the market excepting the P1xxSM-A series (which is being phased out and is on last-stock right now) and the only other machine he could think of getting which could give him the freedom and power that his current system potentially can is the P770ZM or the P750ZM, except that the screens on the P750ZM are all low quality IPS panels, and his current screen, depending on games he likes playing, would be better due to response times.

I'm not arguing how much performance an additional $1k is. He asked what it could bring and I told him. I also weighed in the fact that selling his machine for parts which I estimate to be under $1k in worth means his additional $1k won't get him a system as tricked out as he could make his current system for that additional $1k. It might have no warranty and it may not have assurance that another part won't just go up in smoke. Never said anything about that. But I mentioned both sides of the arguement before, so your statements bashing his current system and upgrade plan are both unnecessary, and as I have pointed out more than once, not correct. If you said something different, something more specific, then maybe I could have agreed with you. But I responded exactly to what I quoted from you as I read the quote. Which is why I separated them with lines, to respond specifically to each line. If you say I responded to a wrong quote, you'll have to point out to me that you said something different than I read.

 

The bolded and italicized portion of your quote is exactly what I said.

From my post#8 in this thread:

Either way, I stand by what I said and the reasoning behind it.

I bow down to your upgrading and overclocking expertise, but that is not what is important here from what I see.

The fact that we have ~$1K in current hardware (or more... when sold off as parts) and an additional ~$1K in funds on hand to throw at this 'problem' is enough for me to suggest once again that a new platform be considered first and foremost over any upgrade path that might be available.

The OP, Eddie12390 asked what are the best upgrades to pursue. I say a new system/platform period. The OP also wants something that will last a few more years and no matter how great that circa 2012 platform is - it will not compete favorably in the coming years - especially as new main chips (cpu/gpu) and O/C'ing is required to bring it up to snuff, today. Keep in mind that he hasn't O/C'd his system previously and it still killed off components. Stressing it with O/C'ing the two main chips will only make it less stable and dependable going forward.

Not going to argue about the suitability of the P1xxSM-A models you keep suggesting (I'm taking your word on that), but what I think is one of the main points being missed here is how soon the OP needs this up and running?

If it is needed today, right now, immediately - probably the upgrade chips path is the way to go.

If the OP has any other options, time-wise, a new system is the most logical choice.

Eddie12390, save more funds, piece off the existing system for the highest possible $$$$ and buy new when you actually need to. This will give you the best chance of getting what you stated in the first post: something that will last a few years (without O/C'ing).

The system you bought is a write-off at this time; not an investment. Don't treat it like it is. (It is a sunk cost - choose a new path and hopefully you'll have more luck in the next few years).

 

^ now that's a much better arguement, and I can agree with a lot of it. I did quote you wrong, sorry. Even though I did mention that I was only considering the CPU upgrade for limitations, I replied as if you meant that the platform on the whole cannot suffice.

The one thing I wanna point out is that the 7970M cards had a history of dying after ~1 year. A notable one, that carried over from the 6990M cards. It's less of a chance that the newer GPUs will die off like that, though any part can potentially die at any time.

I was looking from the perspective of giving him a performance upgrade (which he wants) but also a machine that offers him full control over its hardware, which is currently only achieve-able using PxxxSM-A (phased out excepting P37xSM-A) and P7xxZM models. The HQ CPUs have serious power and firmware-level customization issues (which I speak about in my CPU guide) and are not even at the level of his 3610QM ivy bridge CPU. The fact is, the current laptop market is atrocious with respect to CPU implementations in all machines EXCEPT Clevo's current lineup. I can't remember a time when things were this bad, in fact. ASUS, MSI, Alienware all have very random behaviour with their CPUs and it's really terrible for consumers, but reviewers don't seem to care because as I keep saying, peoples' quality acceptance levels for laptops is the lowest out of any comparable personal computing device (smartphones, desktops, servers)

 

D2 Ultima,

I enjoyed our back and forth here. Hope the OP was following and can decide for themselves how to best proceed considering their circumstances.

 

I would have considered replacing the system entirely but unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) the system was originally purchased for me by my work as I am often traveling for work and needed a machine that was able to use CAD tools on the go. I spoke with my boss after I initially started having issues with the 7970m and he stated that due to the way that funding is handled it would be far easier for them to give me financial support in fixing and upgrading this computer than it would be for them to purchase a new computer outright.

For anyone who was wondering, I purchased a 980m from Woodzstack (who has been wonderful to deal with, I was amazed by how fast his response time was considering that I paid at midnight on a Sunday) as well as a 500GB Samsung 850 Evo. I'll be purchasing the 3940XM as soon as I see a good deal for one as well as replacement RAM.

 

Yeah; there is always more information to consider and digest...

Thanks for filling in the back story a little more. Hope the system performs as you expect when it is completed.

When funds are available, anything is possible.

Back down on earth though (yeah; even for me most of the time...), we have to do what we can.

Take care.

 

Any particular reason you ended up w/ an Alienware rather than a mobile workstation, considering the CAD use-case?

 

The requirement for me to travel was imposed on me with very little warning (previously employee suddenly decided they were no longer interested in working there), it was seen as a thanks for basically changing my lifestyle as well as a way to get work done on the go. I'm fairly certain that my boss pulled some strings.

I appreciate your insight.

 

So you prefer/asked for a gaming machine rather than a mobile workstation? I'd expect something like an M4600/4700 to be priced similarly, but slightly better suited to CAD, more robust/sturdy design, and not quite as heavy.

 

At the time I did. In retrospect, it probably wasn't the most reasonable use of funds but I've been fairly happy with the computer overall (other than the dying 7970m) and it has been more than enough for all of my work related tasks.

 

Glad to hear it. For what it's worth, I've never had issues running cad on gaming cards rather than quadro/firepro cards.


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