M860ETU QX9300 + GTX280m

As some of you may know, I managed to get a GTX280M working in this 15.4" laptop, but now we're going to see what happens when on the other side of the heatsink we add a QX9300. I will receive everything next Friday or maybe the following week; however due to exams I won't be able to write a very thorough review before three weeks! I am receiving an M860ETU so that's where all the testing is going to take place. Subscribe to this thread, together we'll make the world's most powerful 15.4"... again! That will take down most 17" notebooks. I'll tell you now though, no suicide runs and nothing over 80c; if some people consider stress testing and damaging an investment, I invite you to fund the project for me!
I now have a 24/7 stable overclock on my GTX280M with 1.05v, we'll see what happens when a 45W TDP QX9300 adds up to that. If the laptop manages to power on all this hardware, the primary goal of this thread will be to undervolt the CPU using CPUGenie even if I have to purchase it (can't settle for 2.40GHz), test battery life and run benchmarks.
I predict breaking 13k with a QX9300 which will be another milestone for 15.4" notebooks.

See you all around, and experienced users are more than welcome to post their thoughts and recommendations here (I'm thinking especially about Kaltmond who pushed this system to the limits already with a 9800m GTX and QX9200).

Let's start with battery life:

Typical student/businessman usage: Microsoft Word/Excel, Windows Media Player, emails, dreamscene paused, sidebar running 8 gadgets, youtube once in a while
T9900 + GTX280m : "Power Saver", 50% brightness, Silent Mode = 2:10
T9900 + GTX280m : "Power Saver", 100% brightness, Silent Mode = 1:45
QX9300 + GTX280m : "Power Saver", 70% brightness, Silent Mode = 2:00

So at idle, the QX9300 undervolted to 1.05v actually doesn't consume any more power than the T9900 does.

75% display brightness should allow about 2 hours. 50% display brightness truly sucks except if it's night. You might actually take longer to do your work since it's so hard to see and therefore consume as much if not more battery than if you had a little more brightness.



So everything showed up this morning, the laptop is built and operating amazingly! Check the screenshots, the CPU runs hot in IntelBurn Test v2 set to Maximum and has a VID of 1.1625v. Going to try lowering the operating voltage!
However you guys are going to laugh, I didn't gain 700 points in 3DMark because from a 3.06GHz dual core to 2.53GHz quad-core lowered my scores in other areas of the test, so I simply scored 12 296 lol!

DECEMBER 2009: Back in the U.S for vacations, brand new shiny OEM QX9300, still waiting on the Arctic MX-3 thermal paste.

So reading another thread about using a 2KOhm resistor to trick the clock generator into using a 333MHz FSB which would bring the QX9300 in theory up to a maximum of 3.2GHz with the highest stock multiplier, I'm very tempted to try it. Having ditched my 3.06GHz T9900 for the QX9300, I would be glad to not only have twice the cores but also running at at least the same clocks! I need to get a good small soldering iron and a resistor. I'm still not convinced to get rid of a my M860ETU for an i7 laptop, I definitely won't if I manage to get a stable overclock on this CPU. Regarding CPU stability, I remember that most QX9300 can actually run stable at 1.050v at 2.53GHz, leaving lots of headroom for overclocking, which is great because we shouldn't have to worry about overvolting to reach 3GHz I think. Now with an OEM CPU and not an ES, I hope that it'll be more responsive to changes made in software such as RMClock and CPUGenie (if I have to lock the CPU down to a certain multiplier for stability). Regarding RAM, the system runs unstable with the RAM of another person who tried this mod; we'll see if it's because of his RAM or if there is a more underlying problem when overclocking by tricking the clock generator.

Happy holidays everyone, let's hope for the best!

 

Godspeed, H-Emmanuel. The QX9300 paired with the GTX 280M at your clocks will easily surpass 13k.

Did you send your original M860TU back for the revised motherboard?

CPUGenie is still new, but a lot of people are taking a liking to it. It will defintely help you lower the temps to push the QX9300 harder during stress tests and benchmarks.

As for the GPU, the reason why your GTX 280M is losing performance at higher clocks is because of the memory. Thermal monitors can only read the core temperature and not the memory as they do not have thermal diodes.

What I suggest is to replace the stock thermal pads with quality ones, such as custom cut Bergquist SIL 60's. Also modding the heatsink by mounting copper blocks on the heatsink itself over where the memory chips are located will also help the memory from choking at higher clocks as well. I have already done the same with my M570TU and I am going to do it all over again for the new GTX 280M I put in. I am only waiting for those damn blocks to come in.

 

Emmanuel, when are you getting the new heatsink? That should be your #1 priority at this point.

 

It's coming with the M860ETU so I guess I won't have to do a copper mod as Soviet Sunrise suggested. I actually purchased an M860ETU and managed a few days after to resell the M860TU, it was still like new so I didn't lose much money on it.

Also for comparison, the two screenshots are my M860ETU with the exact same specs, except that the first one is with the T9900 and the second one with the QX9300.

 

Nice spec you have there.

http://www.xoticpcforums.com/showthread.php?t=3919

By default, QX9300+280m GTX gets 11.5k.

If you can somehow overclock the CPU, then breaking 13 k seems realistic.

I guess your SSD drive will push the score by a few hundred points, and the GPU has space for careful overclocking.

 

Oh yes you do. Posting such an enthusiastic and inspiring speech to make this notebook the fastest in it's size class must come true. It is in our blood, and wallets, to take it to the max by any means necessary.

 

I'm already scoring nearly 12 300 with my T9900, the QX9300 will add 700 points easy.

Lol what matters too is that it remains portable and can actually run on battery on Power Saver with two cores disabled for an hour and half.

 

Oops I forgot that part.

Where'd you sell, eBay? I'm trying to sell mine for capital right now.

 

13k sounds about right @2.53. I doubt you'll be able to overclock it, it's probably locked like the x9100.

I've only gotten to 11700 with this piddly P9600 <.< When I get my QX, I'm breaking 14k

 

Yep but mine looked like new, really, like brand new out of the box. Judging from your specs, yours would sell at 1k or so with all the scratches that I saw in your sale thread

If you can wait a few weeks, I'll sell you my QX9300 if I judge that I don't want such as beast and battery drainer in my laptop 24/7.

EDIT: 100 posts! That's my first milestone here!

RE-EDIT: by the way, I was thinking, does anyone knows how to pin mod the QX9300 to drop the vCore down 0.1v? Kaltmond did it but he hasn't gotten back to me yet, dropping the CPU down 0.1v would be a great undervolt without the use of any software!

 

where'd you all get 280m's to shoehorn in?

 

I asked many resellers, none of them would supply anything to me but RJTech; however it was a risky experiment since it didn't come with any warranty since I was using it in a laptop not meant to run that card. I'm sure you can get decent performance out of a GTX260m and probably beat the stock GTX280m by overclocking; the GTX280m is more bragging rights I guess lol!

I'm trying to set a record with this laptop and then live with it for some time and stop changing components all the time.

 

rjtech will supply one? is it a direct swap, and what kind of heatsink will i need if i were to even dream such a thing?

(sometimes I wish i could buy 2 m860s, but then reality makes me realize i need this to work for college 100%, and i'm not an OC'er)

 

You would definitly need an NP8662 heatsink, the old M860TU one is pure crap and doesn't make good contact if not at all on the die, I had to lap it completely and make modifications to my card in order to have it touch the heatsink, and it's not perfect yet, that's why I have an M860ETU coming, quad-core support + new heatsink. RJTech might supply you one, but it's a risk you'll be taking in the end because they'll refuse for sure to give you anything else but a DOA warranty I guess.

 

hey emmanuel did your GTX 280M happen to have a connector at the front or back of the card?

 

But you're running the GTX 280m with higher clocks, yes? So does it breach 90C ?

 

Hey when you guys are doing 3dMark benches what resolution are you doing it at?

 

By default we use 1280x1024. Partly for ease of comparison. Cos thats the default 3Dmark06 res, without having to buy the professional version.

 

Cool, was just wondering for when I'm doing benches myself

 

For any screen with at least 1280 x 1024, that will be the default res. 1680 x 1050, 1920 x 1200, etc all default to that res then. Lower res default to 1280 x 800 or 1280 x 720 for the newer 16:9 lowres screens.

 

I''ll check Friday when I re-open the laptop, you're looking for an SLI connector or something?

 

So I finally got everything, uploaded pics in the original post, here a few more. The pictures speak for themselves! I currently can't upload extra pictures, I get an entity too large error...

 

So finally the most powerful 15.4´notebook.

 

Wow thats a very powerful 15 inch laptop...

 

Yep a nice future proof 15.4" laptop! It runs pretty cool too, under normal usage I'm getting about 43c average per core. Only IntelBurn Test really burns it! Graphic card idles at 3D clocks (because Dreamscene is running) at 53c.

 

Nice!! A must have system!

 

no doubt that the crazy Clevo M860ETU owners that pimped out their systems with GTX 280M or Quadro 3700M and a QX9300 are not afraid to push their systems to the limit.

... bragging rights FTW

 

Yeah lol, however my performance dropped in a few games such as Crysis (4FPS or so) where it's actually noticeable, however I gained 5FPS in GTA4. Now I'm currently running the CPUGenie voltage tuning to test the lowest voltage because when I play 3D games, it seems that there are lag spikes during a firefight etc and I think it's due to the CPU sucking in even more voltage than the computer can provide... It's only a 120W laptop, most laptops with these specs have a 220W power adapter. If I manage to undervolt it enough, it should reduce the power draw from the CPU.

By the way CPUGenie seems to be a well made software, it has been running for 8 hours already and my PC didn't crash. I like the way it actually tests for the lowest stable voltage; once all VIDs will be undervolted, I'll run a few loops of IntelBurn test to make sure it's indeed stable with the new voltage at 9.5 multiplier (2.53GHz).

I attached 3DMark06 comparisons with the T9900 and QX9300.

EDIT: it is extremely interresting, the CPU at 2GHz is currently stable at 1.062v instead of 1.162 and currently testing 1.050v. 1.050v is the minimum VID, however I have an ES QX9300 so I may be able to get even lower voltages through CPUGenie if my CPU actually has unlocked VIDs.

Also, undervolting a quad-core is extremely useful as far as temperature goes because for instance 4 cores running at 80c translates into 240c going in the heatsink!!! So if I can drop temperatures down 10c by undervolting, that will be -40c already. Also my GTX280m sees it's temperature rise by 7 degrees when stress testing the QX9300 since the heatsink is shared and since some of the heat goes to the GTX280m side of the HS because the fan couldn't cool it all on time.

After 17 hours of stress testing with CPUGenie to determine lowest voltage per multiplier, it's currently testing 9x multiplier (9.5x remaining), 4 hours are remaining and according to CPUGenie, my QX9300 can run the lowest Intel advertised VID of 1.050v up to 2.266GHz. We'll see if 2.4GHz (9x multiplier) and even 2.53GHz (9.5x) can run on that voltage as well, it would be sweet! That's the beauty of Extreme chips, they can often overclock very well, so the otherway around, they should run stable undervolted at stock speeds.

 

Ok the CPU is stable at 2.53GHz at 1.050v!! However there's one problem; just like RMClock, CPUGenie conflicts with the Vista power management; therefore my voltage jumps from 1.050v to its default VID constantly. Anyone knows how to prevent Vista from playing around my CPU or forcing the CPU through CPUGenie to use only one P-State. When I run a stability test at a given voltage directly in CPUGenie, the voltage doesn't change because I guess CPUGenie maintains full control over the CPU, however when CPUGenie is not using 100% of the CPU, Vista power management comes to mess around.

 

To disable Windows Vista (as well as XP) Power Management, set the Power Plan (Option) to High Performance.

 

I'm already in High Peformance; the fact that I run my CPU at 100% (minimum/maximum power state) makes the OS use the CPU's default VID for 2.53GHz of 1.1625 or 1.2875v sometimes over CPUGenie's 1.050v.

 

yeah actually. But now that I think about it, it probably won't have it because the MXM-IV version of the GTX 280M seemed to be tailor made for the single GPU notebooks.

 

Found something interesting; the laptop with a GTX280m and QX9300 is maxed out in terms of available power. I noticed that I gained about 2-3 FPS in Crysis when I disconnected my notebook cooler from the laptop's USB, leaving more power for the other components. This happens when the laptop is running at the stock VID; when undervolted down to 1.050v, there is no difference with the notebook cooler plugged in or not.
Also, CPUGenie currently can't run the highest multiplier without Vista taking over the voltage control and bumping it to stock VID, so in every day use I'm running the laptop at 9x (2.40GHz) 1.050v, and when games load, they load the 2.53GHz profile that also triggers the stock VIDs.
So... we need the CPUGenie guys to find a way to force the highest clocks with the undervolt, and they can because when you actually run their voltage stability test, it loads the CPU at 100% at 2.53GHz but still keeps the voltage down to 1.050v, Vista doesn't interfere...
Also RMClock boys, RMClock is not compatible at all with this CPU, the lowest voltage it reads is 1.1625 and it reads 1.4v for many other multipliers which exceeds by far the authorized VIDs. Also, I tried to unlock my VIDs in CPUGenie and even when going below 1.050v, the VID won't drop any further.

 

1.05 is good. Mine is 1.0625 stable. Below get erros when running orthos at 9 priority.

 

Hey man you show up right on time! What software did you use to undervolt your CPU, or did you do the pin wire mod? I can't get my CPU to stay at 1.05v on 9.5x multiplier, it kicks up to 1.1625 and even higher sometimes...

 

I don´t use software, just pin wire mod on the socket. Don´t know if it will slowly damage the cpu....

 

The thing is that I'm wondering if the pin wire mod can't actually also damage the CPU socket... Well I have huge exams in 9 days and I'm flying away so I can't afford either breaking my laptop before, having it break while I'm there or having to troubleshoot for a week instead of studying lol! It already took me two days trying to figure out how the voltage was managed etc and what was the culprit. Basically right now it's like as if I was running a QX9200 (2.40GHz) at 1.05v, the 2.53GHz is dedicated to games only! The funny thing is that at this voltage, all my cores are pretty much as cool as my T9900! Kaltmond one last thing, could you give me your CPU score in 3DMark06? I want to compare yours to mine when my QX9300 runs underclocked and undervolted.

Also does anyone know how to set a CPU affinity for a program for mutiple cores; Crysis runs better on 2 cores than 4 cores mostly because the CPU runs at 2.8GHz when two cores are idle. I want it done permanently, not going through the task manager all the time...

EDIT: nvm for the affinity, found a neat low footprint program: CPU Control but in the end Crysis still runs slightly better on all 4 cores, so I'll leave it that way!

I broke the 12 500 3DMarks so I did gain over 200 points with the QX9300.

 

h-emmanuel, about the backplate, does it stick to the 9800m GT really hard? Because previously, I once ordered a 9600m GT with a backplate, and it was virtually unpryable, in fact, I thought I had damaged the card when trying to remove the back plate.

 

Hey yeah it sticks hard to the card, I didn't damage mine when taking it off but it's extremely risky and don't use pryers, try to use a flat head screw driver. What I did, I took a philips screw driver and pushed really hard against each of the 4 backplate things that stick out of the GPU on the other side, make sure that the the video card doesn't bend while you're doing that so hold it firmly; once you get one side partly unglued, gently use a screw driver on the other side without knocking off any resistors to completely seperate the backplate from the card; and then do the same steps for the three remaining. Also, after the process and taking off the backplate, it probably won't be very flat anymore you need to take like a hammer or something to straighten it otherwise it won't stick properly behind the GTX280m resulting in the HS not being able to sit flat on the die.

 

Well, I experimented it with the 9600m GT and manage to get that back plate out, hopefully I didn't damage the card, though even if it is, I don't really mind. Bought it previously when I wanted to test if the 5920g would accept a 9600m GT. Turns out, it didn't.

 

Yeah, the 9600m GT isn't worth a lot and is crap compared to the GTX280m anyways lol!

 

Well, it is a mid-range card. BTW, You overvolted the GTX 280m to enable it to overclock further right? Are the temps alright when you first used it on the m860tu instead of the M860etu?

Previously I wanted to wait for the GTX 260m heatcasing to be available before purchasing the GTX 280m, but I thought, what the heck, seems to me that there's no difference with the heatsink so i decided to try my luck, with stories of success from you and even the m15x.

 

Sorry man this website is so slow it's unbearable, 404 error all the time, I don't know what the hell they are doing, it's like that 90% of the time.
The GPU runs cool, 78c during 3DMark06 when the laptop sits on a desk, a notebook cooler will bring it around 70c and it'll almost never break 80c in any games with a notebook cooler.
Hope this helps.

 

Yea, I know, I cant even load the pics you uploaded. Thanks for all the information and advice. Hope mine turns out alright.

EDIT:
Sorry top trouble you alot, H-emmanuel, but could you please uplaod the photos elsewhere? I somehow cant get it to load fully when it's uploaded to notebookreview, maybe imageshack? Thanks alot.

 

Interesting fact: I fired up Crysis on the plane and... sudden power loss! If you pack that much power in your laptop, don't expect to game on battery! However my GTX280m doesn't downclock on battery, so in theory I could play on battery if I had a T9900 in or something. I'm kind of tempted in getting again a 3.06GHz T9900 or a 25W TDP 2.8GHz P9700...

 

won't make that much of a difference, 1.05 volt is pretty low already. if you UV the t9900 i doubt you can take it below 0.97, you'll get 20% more battery life tops.

 

Or if I really wanted to game on battery, I could just use Msconfig and have Windows run only two cores of the CPU. It could be great if we could enable/disable CPU cores on the go though. Setting affinity on only two cores wouldn't solve the problem though since all 4 cores would still be enable and therefore would still be consuming power.

Verdict: for this laptop, get a Q9200, not a QX9300. The QX9300 has these Intel features that prevent the clock from locking, resulting in the end user's inability to lock the CPU at a specific clock and voltage; so when the voltage spikes while I'm on battery, the laptop shut downs.

Since I am running an overvolted GTX280m, I guess that taking off 0.05v would actually allow to run the CPU at maximum voltage on battery without crashing the laptop, but I'm not going to sacrifice graphic card performance and lower my overclock.

 

Does the M860 have a silent button like the M570? I believe it limits the CPU to the lowest multiplier (1.66ghz for a qx9300). And undervolt would only make that more effective.

 

Yeah it does and I use it when I don't need any power. But if I wanted to shoot up a game on battery for the hell of it, it would be too slow. Now I was thinking, one other easy way to cut back on power consumption would be to get a single stick of 4GB of 1.5v DDR3 RAM as opposed to 2*1.5v sticks, that would remove a whole 1.5v which is more than the QX9300 under full load would consume in terms of power. The only downside is going from dual channel to single channel and I'm not convinced yet if it'll make a big difference or not between the two.

 

Hey H-E, I might be able to get myself an M860ETU a bit sooner than I thought. I'm not sure what I'd do to it though. I want a QGMU Q9100, but I'd need to sell my T9800 first. I would probably stick with the GTX 260M though.