Making RAID 0 from 2x mSATA Crucial M4 256GB 6G/s SSD possible?

Hello
I'd like to ask if there is anybody who tried to make RAID 0 from mSATA SSDs ?
What speeds are like ?
Is the mSATA faster than normal SATA ?

Like here : they call it SUPER RAID 0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N23FPbNm6k
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/? set=a.378863325486618.115307.111253142247639&type=3

 

No, there is no such thing as 'super raid' except in the marketing dept' minds at MSI. mSATA and SATA can operate at the same speeds (SATA3 or 6GB/s) but if on the same SATA connection (depending on the system - that is what makes the MSI a 'little' special), namely 'SATA3' - then the speed would be identical (or actually slower for mSATA - it can hold less nand chips and therefore less optimal interleaving) for a given controller.

My 5 minute experience on such a system (demo unit at brick and mortar store) was not as exciting as the advertising blurb in your post indicates. I honestly thought it was running on a HDD and/or the SSD part was 'broken' - but what was closer to the truth was that as a demo model, the RAID0 array had deteriorated in a matter of weeks/months simply being on display.

Definitely not something to strive for, imo.

 

So this type or MSI RAID experiment FAILED ? no go ? no TRIM support I presume ..
Should I not bother then?
Thnx

 

Any RAID0 array I've seen will eventually experience the same fate: it will need the array to be 'broken' - then either format each SSD individually (with a Win7 SP1 or Win8 install SSD - as these will ensure the drive's are Trimmed) or better yet Secure Erase it. Then, do a clean install of your O/S, programs and data.

And in a few weeks/months do it all again if you want the performance that RAID0 promises.

 

See my sig, it works, and upon installing intel rst driver 11.6 onwards trim is supported on all intel hardware raid platforms, my m5m raid 0 is trimmed fine and windows 7 is capable of sending trim commands automatically. I do however once a week after running virus and malware scan make a system image of the raid volume via macrium reflect just in case bad things happen. I did have the stripe size set as 64kb which give r/w performance as 960/840 mbps and am going to switch to 128kb after my later scheduled image. Do take note that the adaptor is just providing a platform of two msata ports with sata3 speed simultaneously so there is no rocket science behind that, i did use this adaptor just to make sure i get the intel specified 2 sata3 ports instead of one in the economic version of gt70, which features one sata3 port only

 

This is interesting since reports I've read said that for TRIM to work properly on RAID0 SSDs, you need a new OROM firmware. Off the top of my head, the MSI notebooks were released before the RAID0 TRIM was announced so I cant be sure if it will ship with the new OROM. On the desktop, only Z77 chipsets are supported natively while my older Z68 needs the OROM to be hacked in.

@galaxySII, the main advantage of RAID0 is to give you better sequential and high queue depth random performance, however, you won't notice either in day to day usage (e.g. booting, UI responsiveness) which is more governed by 4k Random Read QD1 which doesn't improve with RAID (in fact it slightly decreases due to processing overhead). That being said, I've observed that Windows 8 Fast boot is partly sensitive to Sequential read speeds since its technically booting from a compressed hibernation file, hence I'm fairly confident you might notice an improvement in windows 8 boot speeds.

 

Ok thnx for info .. OK have few more questions acoording this post so firstly ..
-do i need laptop with RAID support as normal ? or that board makes raid instead?
- in my sony and acer laptop I have two mSATA slots one of these slots are empty in both laptops and second occuppies wifi.. cards .. so if i remove wifi cards and i will install two msata ssds in my vaio will i be able to create RAID ? Because vaio DOES support RAID from manufacturer.. BUT Acer hasnt got RAID support so obviously I will need that module for this laptop.. ?
- do i have to update Intel RAID option ROM in laptop or just driver in windows?
Thnx

Dont worry man I know what is RAID for .. ;-)
Othervise i wouldnt have it in my vaio .. with two m4 crucial 128gb .. ;-)

 

out of curiosity, do you have Windows 8 on the RAID machine?, if so what are your Fast Boot times? (from windows splash to desktop) Mine is about 5 seconds on a Samsung 840 pro

 

well simply put the super raid adapter is just a PCB with 2 sata3 ports, imagine a desktop motherboard has 2 sata3 ports, you will then need 2 sata wires to connect to 2 SSDs, if you take a look at the motherboard of the GT70 you will notice that there is an even number of pins to connect to the adapter, now half of the pins work as one sata 3 port and there you go, the adapter serves as 2 sata wires that connect to half the pins each, and instead of a standard sata interface the make it an msata interface which is still only a wire, for a computer to work a SATA controller driver is needed, an SSD firmware which servers like a driver is needed, but no one has heard of SATA wires that need drivers, right?

 

about 2 seconds or 1 second ?

u probably didnt get what i meant ... never mind all try by myself like always everything and then putting here my ideas and almost everyone will be copying me heh ..
no i said i havent got any msi laptop .. people look and read signatures please..

 

Forgot that you are using a VAIO, the adapter is for msi exclusively, and as far as I'm concerned your wifi card slot is mpcie not msata, it has the same physical shape but not electronically compatible, if you really want to try it I'd advice you purchase one msata SSD only just to verify if the slot is msata, thereafter if it works follow this guide to setting your system to raid enabled Guide How to switch to RAID 0 - without reinstalling!!
After you are done with the above setup upon boot up make sure you check on your option rom version number (before going into bios setup there should be a new screen which tells you to enter raid setup menu by pressing ctrl+I or equivalent, on that load up screen there should be a version number). If you want the raid volume to be trim enabled make sure the option rom version is 11.x.x.x, anything below that will drop support for trim under RAID mode
and if you successfully create the raid volume make sure you install the newest version 11 IRST(not 12, i've tested that and it doesnt support trim on my system due to the older option rom)

 

I'm concerned your wifi card slot is mpcie not msata, ?
man that is same thing interface .. to that u can connect ANY devices and your laptop and wondows will detect it and properly recognize what type device is and normally install it ..

look here : PCI Express Mini Card for wireless WAN or mSATA solid-state drive removal and installation - ThinkPad X230 and X230i

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/mSata-vs-mini-PCIe/td-p/942781

Note: The computer comes with either a PCI Express Mini Card for wireless WAN or an mSATA solid-state drive. If the computer is equipped with an mSATA solid-state drive, it is installed in the wireless WAN card slot.

PCIE is like standard slot where u can connect any devices it commes from desktops and been designed for laptops AS a Mini PCIE so mPCIE and SSDs are called then mSATA SSDs like on desktops u can install audio card graphic card any other peripherals ..

 

well in that case you are free to try it out, the only thing I am concerned is if the laptop is the one on your signature, I doubt it is msata capable A505 s6005 - Can I replace mPcie WIFI with mSATA S... - TOSHIBA FORUMS due to the fact that it is using intel core technology, which is couple of years back (even before technology for SATA3 slots) and the msata capable pcie slot which is the mpcie combo slot only came out recently on the H77 mobile boards and desktop equivalents, I will not pour those hard earned money on trying just to realise it not being able to work, at all. And also even if your BIOS does have the RAID mode configurable the option rom will very likely to be ancient, which means trim is not supported, option rom is tied to the BIOS update so if SONY did not release an option rom updated bios even if the msatas work trim will not be enabled and like some others said, SSD raid 0 without trim will face error and faults leading to breaking the array as the only solution. If you insist in trying it out make sure all testings are done before the refund period at the place of purchase. One last point, if this motherboard does have the msata slot it will be at the speed of SATA2, release date of core 2 duo is jan 2008 Intel Core - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia whereas SATA 3 interface is released on july 2008 Serial ATA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, msata which is on the revision SATA 3.1 is dated recently, there is little to no hope that core 2 architecture motherboard will have the hardware capability of such components. Anyway, good luck trying

 

This is vaio motherboard : on the left in circle is first second image on the right slot (for wifi .. there is watermark blocking but u see it ..)





And this is Acer SATA cables and 2X Mini PCIe :




unfortunately acer is NOT equipped with RAID feature ..

Yeah I completely understand and accept this post ! exactly well said ..
it is because I purchased mSATA m4 crucial 256GB for 140 pounds.. ALREADY heh
Yeah I red that this mSATA SSDs is compatible since 2009 that was start.. the vaio is 2007 project .. or 2006 and released 2008 .. heh ..
at least ACER hmm.. all need trying ..
and yes vaio has 10.x.xx.x. Option ROM I wanted update it long time ago I have all INtel Option ROMs but am scared to update it ..
I have unpacked BIOS and even extracted old ROM and replaced with some RAID Option Rom v11.6.0.1624 version but who is dare to do it

 

take note; Acer at 2011, Sony at 2008, take note at the last few posts on this page http://forum.notebookreview.com/acer/586832-acer-ethos-as8951g-as5951g-owners-lounge-50.html, SATA 3.1 revision is when the HARDWARE technology of msata is introduced, thus ANY hardware before the introduction of msata is most certainly not compatible, hardware issues cannot be solved by software patches (having a bird's brain in a human body doesn't make it capable of flying), even with similar physical look (having the same appearance as bill gates doesn't make you a multi-billionare). Like I said, its not worth trying, but good luck with it

 

I will receive mSATA SSD tmoz so ill be experimenting
and I will let know here in this thread as usual .. I am the tester cos I want to find out .. I like doing these experiments .. same like MSI did this mSATA RAID experiment thing .. and it works - ish

And IF it is NOT gonna work .. (which probably wont .. ) am planning to buy iconia W700 i5 1.8Mhz 128GB SSD so Ill replace it with this one crucial 256GB and Ill sell 128GB one ..

EDIT :
I found data sheet from samsung mSATA and there are infos about interface .. here below : check that interface info ..

Couldn't find PDF sheet for crucial m4 like this fro samsung mSATA SSD

 

hmm, nice data sheet on the pm831, detailed data sheet for m4 msata is on the micron website: http://www.micron.com/~/media/Documents/Products/Data Sheet/SSD/realssd_c400v_2_msata.pdf this is the link to downloading it=)

 

Wow thnx so much

checked this is some c400v says 32 and 64gb only .. but probably same build technology but not m4 256gb

@qweryuiop #check this out .. :O jesus .. Micron and Crucial M500 SSDs Announced with up to 960GB Capacity | StorageReview.com - Storage Reviews

 

ohh, sorry bout that, but yea crucial m4 is the client version of micron C400, so go look for micron's data sheet as client based datasheet tends to be more simplified when compared to enterprise based datasheet.

 

@Marksman30k

Check this out .. am runnin 2x crucial m4 128gb sata III on vaio AW which supports SATA II only .. now u asking why am putting SATA III SSDs into SATA II laptop .. simply because it STILL performs better than ANY SATA II old SSDs ... !
click here : Fast win 8 boot - YouTube

That is fine anyway check this Acer S7 configured in intel RAID 0 see the performance !
LInk : Acer Aspire S7 Touch Screen Ultrabook Review - World's Fastest Ultrabook Intros New SSD Form Factor | The SSD Review

 

Yeah, thats amazing for SATAII. I noticed a significant boot time speed boost when I upgraded from the Intel 320 to the Plextor M5s then to the Samsung 840 pro. Windows 8 seems to like sequential read speed.

 

That sammy 840 pro is fast but expensive isn't it ?

Just received the crucial m4 256GB mSATA ...
Installed it into Acer Ethos and ... crap.. nothing happened AT ALL after booting into windows .. not even detect pure nothing..
Am not gonna even think to put into older vaio ..

 

Check this out
SSDMR (Dual mini-SATAto SATARAID Adapter)
http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/SSDMB.html
http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/SSDMC.html

 

The problem with something like that is that TRIM is likely not supported unless the firmware itself is able to recognize and pass TRIM to the RAID mSATA drives. Plus you're limited to the bandwidth of the SATA III port anyhow, so you wouldn't exceed the ~ 500MB/sec bandwidth of SATA III. Only thing you'd gain is more capacity, and likely at the risk of losing TRIM.

 

Shame.. why they making it tho .. without TRIM .. hmm