Momentus XT in raid with NON Momentus XT

Hi all,

I recently got a Sager 8760 that I'm really excited about. I got it with the standard 500gb 7200rpm drive with the intentions of putting a SSD in the other slot. Now I'm just debating with myself if the SSD is really worth the money. I woul like more space than 120gb, but that would be all I could afford right now (I will have my 500gb 7200 in the second slot for storage). Is there any indication the prices will be coming down soon?

Because of this I have been thinking about getting a momentus XT in the first slot and RAIDing it with the stock 500gb. I've hear raiding 2 different drives is not advised but im wondering how this would work out. Would it still utilize the 4th of NAND flash? Has anyone tried this with good results?

I'm open to opinions on which route i should take or if you have another suggestion.

 

Simple:

Don't.

Full Stop.

 

Ok so don't do it? What do you mean by full stop? Should I just get the ssd then? What about using the hybrid drive with the other 500gb drive but just not in raid? Would it be faster than a raided setup of 2 7200 500gb drives?

 

Either raid 2 XT's or 2 normal HDD's or 2 SSD's. Or mix any of them in non raid for less performance. However if you used a small SSD as your boot disk in one slot and a XT in the other slot you would have best of both worlds. Expensive though.

 

Yep. If you put the XT in RAID with the non-XT drive, the XT will have to wait for the other drive, and the NAND will be useless. Or, in other words, XT+non-XT in RAID will give you exactly the same performance as two non-XTs, at best.

 

get 2 of the same hard drives in RAID or forget it... won't work... otherwise , get an SSD+ HDD... just like i did...

 

Full stop = "period" in British English...

 

Ok sounds good. Now I just have to choose a momentus with the other 500gb in non raid and maybe upgrade to an ssd later or just get a ssd now.

 

Thank you for letting me know by the way. I like the cultural learning.

 

Depends on what you want to do with your system:

If you use PS with huge Scratch Disk sizes then leave the 7200 RPM mech. as the boot/system/app drive and use an SSD as the temporary 'scratch' disk.

If you use your system very lightly, use the SSD as the boot/system/app drive and the mech. as the data disk.

If your use will fill an SSD past 50%, you will be less than impressed - considering the price you'll pay currently.

If you can 'make due' until Q1/Q2 of 2011, almost any (then current) SSD upgrade will blow away anything we have available now.

Don't upgrade/spend$$$ just because you can.

 

Very good insight. This seems smart. I'm really bad on these terms, what exactly do you mean by scratch disk? And with your insight I think I might pass on the SSD then for right now because i would definitely fill past 50%, but I do want a little faster performance at least. Because of this I can go 2 ways. Buy the 500gb XT and slap that in with my other 500gb drive making it have 1tb of space. Then when ssd's come down a little throw the XT in the secondary and pick up a SSD for primary. OR i can get a matching 500gb 7200rpm drive and raid them for now.

Is there one you would suggest over the other?

Also does anyone know what 500gb 7200rpm drive comes stock in the Sager 8760-s1?

 

Please keep in mind that an SSD will beat any HDD (including the Momentus XT) in every performance measure thinkable.

This will be the same whether you fill the SSD to 10% or 80%.

Tilleroftheearth has a negative bias against SSDs mainly because he writes 100GB per day. An average user writes about 5GB per day according to Intel.

The next generation SSDs is not going to 'blow away' the current generation if your notebook has a SATA II controller. The only really interesting aspect about Intel G3 is expected to be the price.

 

Bah!! Ok conflicted reports haha. What's with the whole filling up SSD degrading performance? If it's almost full does it slow down a lot or is it just a myth. The actualy SSD I was looking at was the ocz vertex 2 or the g skill Phoenix pro both in 120gb sizes. And for me I probably won't be doing much PS or anything like that. Just normal computer needs like browsing, word processing, watching hd video and hulu, plus a lot of gaming. Would this write a ton of gb? I don't think it would, the only thing I'm unsure about is if gaming on it would affect it a lot.

I mean for my usage if the SSD will last a while at almost full capacity (120gb) and not degrade in performance by a huge amount I will be happy. It does have a 3 year warranty so if it crapped out I'd just get a new one.

 

A 'Scratch Disk' is what Adobe products (Photoshop, etc.) calls the temporary location that is used when physical RAM runs out.

If you do buy an XT, partition it as small as you can get away with (40GB-100GB depending on how much software you install) while still leaving about 20GB free for Windows. Use the rest of the capacity to store more data on.

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/har...-hitachi-7k500-benchmark-setup-specifics.html

for more information on that.


Your plan to upgrade to an SSD and relagate the XT to the 'DATA' drive position is good (from the info you have given).

Something to keep in mind about notebooks with two drive bays: some manufacturers will only deliver the notebook with all connectors/wires in place when you order two HHD's from them. If you just order a single drive, you may still need to purchase the wiring/connectors and physically install them into your notebook.

For the minimum running around: I would order the notebook with two of the smallest/cheapest HHD's they offer (NOT IN RAID) to ensure that you'll be able to actually use your new notebook with two drive bays with two actual drives.

Phil, we continue to respectfully disagree with each other, but the spec's for the G3 hint to me that they will surpass any current/future SandForce drive's realworld potential, so to me, that is a 'blow away' type deal. If its even cheaper, all the better.

Intel has stated that their drives are usable at the 5 year mark with 100GB/day sustained writes. They warranty them for 20GB writes though...

 

Ok, thanks for your insight too tiller, this is a hard decision. Spend Money for SSD now and be done with it or buy momentus XT right now and spend more money later.

Also thanks for your input on the two hard drive bays. I contacted my reseller and they told me Sager would include everything I need to install a second hard drive including the caddy, so I hope this is the case.

 

Intel G3 Specs:
Sequential 250/170 MB/s
Random 50K/40K IOPS

OCZ Vertex 2 specs:
* Max Read: up to 285MB/s
* Max Write: up to 275MB/s
* Sustained Write: up to 250MB/s
* Random Write 4KB (Aligned): 50,000 IOPS

Not much blowing away will happen there. The Intel might be faster with compressed data, but the majority of real world usage (for the average user) is done with compressible data.

 

Phil, again we'll disagree.

But let me point out that marketing that says 'up to' is usually BS.

Also, 72MB/s seq. write (actual) on Inferno is pretty well blown away by 170MB/s G3.

As for your assertion that most data is compressible - how do you know?

All of my data (almost) is as compressed as possible:

images, sound files, accounting databases, etc.

The archived files that are compressible are stored as (highly compressed) RAR files.

So what real life data set has mostly compressible files that would allow the SandForce based drives to claim their 'up to' status?

 

I just saw this on amazon

Amazon.com: Kingston SSDNow V Series 128 GB SATA 3 GB/s 2.5- Inch Solid State Drive SNV425-S2/128GB: Computer & Accessories

Kingston V 128gb for $174.99 after rebate. I think this might be a good deal considering the momentus xt is around 120. It seems like it would hold me off untill i buy a better ssd in a year or so. Does anyone know if this supports TRIM? And does it seem like a good price? Is it a good drive?

 

It's almost cheap enough for me, but not a good deal imo (performance-wise).

See:
Kingston SSDNow V Series 128GB SSD Review - The Kingston V Series SSD - Legit Reviews


To judge yourself.

Why am I so wary? The 'ancient' JMicron controller it uses.

 

Is that the updated version? It looks like they came out with a newer "v2" version of the V which supports TRIM out of the box. And I think that is the one on amazon, though i'm not entirely sure. Would this change your opinion on the drive?

 

Sorry, you're right it is the updated version (big difference from the review link I posted).

But even so, it is still at the bottom of the SSD pile. What makes you so sure you need an SSD?

If you can try and return with no fees attached - I say go for it, you have nothing to lose.

If you're already thinking of the next gen SSD's, I say an XT will give you more mileage from your dollars.

 

All the real world benchmarks of Sandforce drives on sites like Anandtech and Storagereview show that the Sandforce drives perform better than Intel G2.

Yes your data is. But your usage pattern is completely different from the average user.

Launcing programs, booting Windows and many other operations. Basically the reasons why Sandforce 1200 drives blow away Intel G2 in Storage Review's real world benchmarks.

The one you linked to is the SNV425, it uses the updated Jmicron controller without stuttering problems. Pretty good performance but the power consumption is bad.

 

Ok, but the performance and reliability (no stutter problems) are good on this drive? I've or the 8760 and since I can't even get an hour off battery life anyway I figure the power consumption doesn't matter to much to me. Would I notice a huge difference between this Kingston and say a Vertex 2 in real world performance if I was to get this drive?

 

Im seeing a Western Digital 128 GB SiliconEdge Blue on amazon now for $215. Would this be a better alternative to the Kingston V?

 

The WD uses the same controller. It's a little faster than the Kingston. They're among the 'slower' SSDs.

Corsair Nova V128GB is $219
http://www.google.com/products/cata...aPF4GK-QaLkuyPBg&sa=title&ved=0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

For $240 you've got a 120GB Sandforce drive like the OCZ Vertex 2.

Going by the Techreport reviews the Corsair Nova might even be a better buy than the Vertex 2.

If you read some reviews on sites like Techreport or others you'll be able to make an informed decision.