Need to get a external HDD advice

Hey I was wondering if anyone could answer some questions for a noob who cant keep up with the progresses in computer technology.

Requirements & Uses
-Looking for good brand for external hdd
-Quality of long life and good performance
-Using it for 3d modeling/animation backup/file transfer
-Money is not so much of a problem, willing to pay more for quality, rather than cut costs for a piece of junk

Questions
1. What brands would anyone recommend to look into?

2. Is 7200rpm a big plus to have?

3. Is there any differences other than brand/rpm that make a difference in external HDDs?

4. Any advice on good places to find deals/places where they have ones you recommend?

5. Finally, any other tips you want to share with a noob?

 

The first thing to consider is how you will connect to it. A USB 2.0 connection will probably give a transfer rate of around 25MB/s which is slower than the HDD. Firewire (400 is slightly faster). The best connection is using an eSATA adaptor in you ExpressCard or PCMCIA slot. This can handle the full HDD speed.

Then there's capacity / size: If you are not planning to move the HDD around then then a 3.5" desktop drive will be fine and now available up to 1TB (1000GB) but a pocket-size 2.5" 320GB unit is also quite affordable. The highest capacity 5400rpm 2.5" HDDs are a close match to the 7200rpm HDDs for overall performance because of their higher data density.

I'm not sure if there is much choice of ready-made 2.5" external units with eSATA, but you can always buy the HDD and enclosure separately and make your own. I've got a couple of the previous generation of this Freecom unit. The enclosure is heavy duty aluminium and the HDD is a relatively cool running Samsung 5400 unit so the combination doesn't get hot and need any fan. However, I would be looking for an eSATA port on my next purchase.

John

 

as for buying a 2.5" ext hdd (not putting one together), your top players are Western Digital, Seagate, LaCie, Buffalo, and a few others. Although many company makes them, most aren't worth looking into, imo. I personally own the WD Passport and the Passport Elite... and i recommend the Elite series between the two. You probably can't go wrong with a drive from any of those companies listed above as long as you choose from their top shelf... for instance, choose the Passport Elite instead of the regular Passport or Passport Essential.

If you're planning on using this with a laptop, i would highly recommend the 2.5" drives.

The really nice thing about the 2.5" drive is that you won't have to carry around a power brick and you don't need an external power source. It's completely powered by USB. On thing you have to remember when using the 2.5" though is that you should use the provided USB cord which is generally round and short. Flat and long cords won't work as it won't give your drive enough power. The cables that come with 2.5" drives are generally around a foot to 1.5feet long if that. I would recommend getting a USB Y-Cable like this one for extra juice if you're going to need a longer cable. it'll take up 2 USB slots when in use.

To use with your desktop, either build you own or pick up something like one of these LaCie drive.

If you don't need mobility at all and you have some spare hard drives at home, pick up an enclosure or one of the Themaltake Blacx... although i don't really recommend the Blacx unless you're going to switch out from multiple drives.

Also if you're thinking about the Blacx, and you want to use ESATA, wait a month until they come out with the ST0005U model.

In case you were wondering, i own:
3.5": 3x Maxtor, 1x Seagate FA-Pro, 3x LaCie, 2x enclosure
2.5": 1x WD Passport, 1x WD Passport Elite, 1x enclosure

For the 3.5" drives - I don't recommend the Maxtor drives. The Seagate is nice with it's a tad bulky and you really need their top Pro series for a good drive. The LaCie and Buffalo drives are generally good drives and are sometimes a tad more expensive.

For the 2.5" drive - I recommend the upper line 320GB drives from the 4 brands listed above.


Hope this was helpful.

 

Alright anyone (John) my external WD 80GB @7200 USB 2.0 transfers at about 12MB/s. It flatlines on HDTach and HDTune so don't think the HDD is the least common denominator. Why am I not getting 25MB/s?

 

I would just recommend you hunt around at estores like newegg.com or frys.com until you find a nice sale one a big brand like western digital, lacie, or seagate and find one that has the size/options you want. For the most part they are the same.

I personally prefer Western Digital but thats because I have had such good luck with them and just a few days ago I got a new 640gb internal HDD from them for 109$ the new one with super dense platters that thing has over 80mb/s average transfer rate ^^

You can get that drive and then toss it in an enclosure yourself for a very high quality drive and it will be more personalized.

Here it is: 109$ w/ free shipping its a steal.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218

then pick out an enclosure you like with the connection interface you need.

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=92&name=External-Enclosures

 

Sounds like your using USB 1.0 maybe. I dont remember the xfer speeds off hand but thats definitely not full 2.0 speed and since its flatline that means its a interface bottleneck.

 

i'm assuming you mean leveling off at 12Mbit (or 12/8 = 1.5MB)... which, like Vicious mentioned, is USB1 at full speed.

If it is USB2.0 than the absolute max speed is 480MBit (or 60MB) but most devices perform between 10-20 (sometimes around 30MB)... some average as low as 3-5MB.

...but this prob doesn't answer your question since you're hitting a ceiling in your tests.

 

OK I am using as said HDTach and HDTune. It reports in MB's not Mbits. My internal 160GB 5400 is 39.7MB/s which is what I would expect. My external reports 12MB/s, USB 1.1 has a maximum transfer of 1.5MB/s so I have ruled that out. But like I said, I am at a loss and mentioned by USMC does not look like a HDD issue? Interface? This never bothered me and has not caused me problems but to hear twice in one week 25MB/s is more normal has peaked my interest.

 

I've had a couple of HD tune results of up to 25MB/s using USB 2.0. I've also got a load more results that are around 17MB/s. 12MB/s seems to be painfully slow. Is anything else connected to the USB bus?

Ideally, a new chipset and a new enclosure should be the best recipe for good performance. It's quite possible that older hardware at either end of the connection might worsen the performance.

There's also the small possibility that the cable might be hitting the performance.

In my original post I was indicating that 25MB/s seems to be the upper limit for USB 2.0. On a bad day the performance can obviously be much slower (but still much, much faster than the external 2.5" HDD I had around 15 years ago which connected via the parallel port).

John

 

I do have AMD with ATI chipset any known issues? I guess I don't really care as it does work for me. I bought it when I had a 11.2GB internal that transfered about 12MB/s. But if easy to improve of course I would do. Thanks for the input all!

 

oh my i did not think I would be getting so many awesome responses thank you all for the help!

yeah for my current computer(laptop) I have a eSATA adaptor however i dont know if my wifes laptop has one too. So i probably will be sticking with the usb 2.0 for that.

My situation is that me and the wife use our laptops in homes, not so much on the go but we do travel sometimes with it.

However one thing I was wondering or well to clarify from your responses:

1. So as long as I dont put my external hdd together, most of the prebuilt ones from the listed companies (2.5") are usb powered? and assuming the (3.5") and self builts are powered through a/c block?

2. I noticed on that BlacX it had usb 2.0 and eSATA, is that a common thing with enclosures offering choice of which you want to use? or is that unique in some brands/models?

3. I noticed you mentioned that high density 5400rpm roughly is equal to the 7200rpm, is there a way to tell those 5400rpm ones apart form normal types? or are they all about even regardless 5400/7200 you choose on the market today?

4. Is it hard to put together your own external hdd with a hdd and enclosure yourself? or things to watch out for so i wont ruin ~$100 in the process? lol


Thats all i got for now, I think I am leaning towards one that offers usb 2.0/firewire and eSATA choice for xfering, i guess for me it doesnt matter 2.5" or 3.5" but it does sound nice not having to run yet another power cord to the wall.

Once again thank you all for the help!!

 

I've always gone with Western Digital and they've been really solid. I hope that helps a little.

 

DIY assembly needs a suitable screwdriver and no more than 5 minutes. I would go for an enclosure which supports both USB and ESATA. Here are some. I bought a couple of the Newlink enclosures which have both USB and eSATA external and IDE / SATA internal (however, the eSATA only works with the internal SATA - it's effectively a pass-through arrangement).

There's a lot of convenience of sticking to 2.5" if you want to use it with different computers. There's no external PSU, but it might need 2 USB ports.

From time to time I get a new bigger internal HDD for my notebook and then the old HDD goes into an enclosure. That way I get the most space and best performance internally.

John

PS: Re the previous post, people have been known to buy the high capacity WD Passport drives then take the HDD out to put in thier notebook. It's a cost-effective route.

 

Thats definitely not normal, i'd suspect the enclosure is the issue.

Here are two tests using same cable/port on my laptop. They are both 5400.3 Seagates, one is in a Vantec Nexstar 3 SATA enclosure, other is Lacie.

 

OK man000 first of all the only thing all of us care about more than notebooks is good grammar.

Simple rule, always put the other person before you. For example "the wife and me (I)". Just kidding. I agree if you can find one with all three yes very nice. If you do not find one with ESATA I think what John mentioned about about HDD speed and density becomes less important as neither method (firewire or USB 2.0) can maximize the HDD speed. Yes I agree that not having a power cord is a good thing. But if I had to use one 3.5 are faster than 2.5, all else being equal.

 

It's probably hard to see the difference if USB is the bottleneck.

Something else to note is that if you are copying files then make sure that the policy for the removable drive is set to best performance. Otherwise the copying speed can take a big dive, especially with small files.

John

 

Correct, I believe you are saying let it cache? Unless a critical application/process it speeds things up. And yes as far as 3.5 vs 2.5 I am going so far as to say if USB 2.0 I don't see a real world difference between drive speed or density as long as it goes above the 25MB/s you guys have mentioned? I will check mine and make sure it is set for best performance.

 

I believe the chipset plays a major roll in this, and the drivers that run the USB controllers. My V5201 with XP has an ATi chipset and my Apricorn drive does not perform as well as it does on the dv6400 (nVidia & Vista).

On a related note, I vaguely remember a handful of old posts in the HP forum that claimed ATi chipsets had abysmal USB 2.0 performance in comparison to their chipset rivals.........

 

1. Just to clarify, you can buy 3.5 and 2.5 enclosures so you're not limited to building with only 3.5" drives. From what i've seen, all 2.5" enclosures are powered through USB although some offer an additional psu just in case.
   
2. Different enclosures (and prebuilt ext hdds) have different ports but most all have USB of some size. I have a thermaltake USB+ESATA 3.5" enclosure and i need to flip a switch to teh one i'm using before i power it up. I don't think they make esata 2.5" drive; at least i've never seen it. In any case, esata will require a psu. 2.5" drives are USB and/or Firewire.
   
3. You won't really notice a difference in transfer speed for any brand 2.5" 320GB 5400RPM hdd when hooked up externally... though a lot of people like the toshiba drive. i've also had good xp with the WD drives.
   
4. As mentioned by John, it only requires a screwdriver if that. A few models are tool-less now.

The other thing you'll need to watch for when buying hdd enclosures is that it needs to match your hdd whether IDE, Sata, or an enclosure than can accept either.

Also, since 2.5" drives are powered and transfer data through the same line, you can't/shouldn't just unplug it from your computer... as you will lose power and not just connectivity. That's why some people suggest to not set it to performance, when using 2.5" ext, unless you're naturally careful with your drives and eject it every time.

 

Make sure the external drive has firewire. Nevermind what USB 2.0s 'potential' is. It simply can't touch the speed of firewire 400.

http://www.barefeats.com/usb2.html

 

that's true but not all computers have firewire ports. Then you have to worry about 4pin vs 6pin (1394a) or even 9-pin (1394b). So you'll need a cable + adapter to match the typical 4-pin of laptops as they typically don't have 6 or 9 pin ports... desktops don't typically have 4-pin or the more rare 9-pin ports so you'd need the ability to connect to both 4 and 6 pins if you're planning on using it with a laptop and desktop.

Every computer has the standard-a usb receptacle port.

it really depends on your usage and the better one is the one that fits your need; but it is true that for 2.5" drive, firewire is fastest.

 

Hello again and sorry for asking yet more questions/help

I was wondering if any of you had a minute or two to spare, could you help me piece a combination together for me from newegg? I was so putoff by reading user reviews that I am second guessing any of my choices I have made lol. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Also was wondering if the HDD is OEM does that mean I need additional wires to make it work with the housing?

Requirements:
-External housing + Hdd(3.5” or prebuilt if good deal?
-$100 limit probably (aiming to save $) would order through newegg (live in Hawaii so don’t qualify for free shipping) looking for max storage space rather than speed I guess
-Basically will be using just USB2.0 or firewire if it has
-Purpose is just to store files to and from on a uncommon basis at home
-HDD from a quality brand/model
-Housing just care about keeping it from killing itself by overheating, looks don’t matter
-Additional wires would have to purchase to hook it up

Once again thank you all for the information on HDDs. I think that later on when I buy a new rig I will be using all the information you gave me to put together something really nice hehe. But for now since I am poor must settle for functionality.

 

OEM hdds just means no box or cables... the enclosures will come with all the cables you need.

If your limit is 100 than you'll prob need to stay with USB as firewire enclosures start at a higher price. Since speed is not as important as capacity anyways, USB is probably the way to go.

If you're going to have to buy the HDD and enclosure, it's sometimes a better idea to just buy the ext hdd already built... whether you buy top brands like LaCie or off brands that pretty much brand the enclosures that is available to you and just sell it to you in a cheaper package - economies of scale.

If you were to build one anyways, this enclosure is cheap and decent: $18 Galaxy 3506UAS. You can pair that up with the largest SATA hdd you can get whether 1.5 or 3.0Gb/s. With a $60 Samsung 250GB 7200RPM 8MB Sata 3.0Mb/s or the $65 Seagate 250GB 7200RPM 16MB Sata 3.0Gb/s, you'll fall in right about $100-$105 with shipping to HI.

Prebuilt off-brands (with rebates, pre-shipping):
$95-$10 - Hammer 500GB
$110-$20 - Cavalry 500GB
$110-$20 - Fantom 500GB


There are quite a few good deals on good brands right above your limit that you may want to consider; around 100-115 (pre-shipping).
$107 - LaCie 500GB
$113 - WD 500GB
$114 - LaCie 500GB

Personally i would dish out the extra $7 plus shipping for the 500GB LaCie... but to HI, you'll have to pay $20 shipping which brings you way over your limit at $130.

 

Ahh thank you for the help. yeah when it comes to all the new technology choices and diy things... I shy away from responsibility and rather ask others for help hehe.

I think i might go for the LaCie you mentioned, I was using $100 as rough ballpark number but am glad that something nice like a 500gb hdd only would come out to $130.